posted
Where I live (rural American south), many, many people get married straight out of high school or within the next few years, and often the babies follow quickly. This is for both the LDS and non-LDS population. When I moved here from Maryland, I was surprised by this because I was used to being the one in the crowd who had married the youngest (at nearly 20), but here I was part of the norm.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005
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If you have a baby at 18 you've probably spent the past few years thinking about algebra class and the prom. If you have a baby at 28 you've spent a lot of the last few years reading books, articles, and watching documentaries about raising babies, including hearing about the millions of things out there in the world which can hurt your child. We become those helicopter parents they talk about.
But in the long run they grow up anyway.
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quote:I've noticed something among parent's I call first child syndrome. I'm not talking here about being a first child, I'm talking about the syndrome associated with having your first child. Its sort of a an obsessive almost paranoid parenting style that tends to go away with the second child and it is much much more pronounced among parents who have never cared for an infant before having their first child. I have no idea what the long term repercussions of that are for either the parent or the child but it certainly seems stressful and unhealthy at least in the short term.
I think I know the syndrome, though I myself am a second child.
It was actually really surprising for me to ask my parents last Christmas if they felt that their ability to discipline increased, decreased, or remained consistent, as they raised all six of their children, and found they both had no problem admitting that it had decreased steadily.
I've often wondered if that affect can be avoided, or what ramifications it has on children.
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We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all. Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I've noticed something among parent's I call first child syndrome. I'm not talking here about being a first child, I'm talking about the syndrome associated with having your first child. Its sort of a an obsessive almost paranoid parenting style that tends to go away with the second child
After my first was born, I tended to turn every conversation to the details of her poop. It was probably 75% of what I thought about.
Yeah, this was something I lamented when I had my first child...that I'd never had the opportunity to be around other children. Technically, I do have two cousins whose diapers I changed (once each) when I was 12 and 15 and I gave each one a bottle. Of course, I breastfed my kids so totally different. In fact, breastfeeding was what 75% of my conversations ended up being about, both in person and on line.
For all that, I think I did all right. I was not overly paranoid or obsessive, just nervous. The biggest nerves were all within the first couple of months. After that, the biggest problems I faced were complete misconceptions about what developmental milestones to expect at what ages. (And I took developmental psych -- no help.) I guess I figured a 1-year-old, no longer a baby but a "toddler," would basically be able to have a conversation with you and be all set to learn their alphabet/numbers. To my credit, it was well before his first birthday that I figured out how wrong I was and that a toddler basically means a baby on wobbly legs. I really wished people would shut up about "how quickly they grow up!" I guess it depends upon your point of view.
It helped me that my husband is the oldest of six kids and had PLENTY of experience. I might have been a lot more paranoid/obsessive if not for him.
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: If you have a baby at 28 you've spent a lot of the last few years reading books, articles, and watching documentaries about raising babies,
You have got to be kidding. The only way I can see this remotely being true is if someone was trying to get pregnant for those last few years. Or, I suppose, if they really wanted to have kids earlier but put it off for some reason. The vast majority of people who have kids later in life don't spend the interim obsessing about babies -- they're busy doing all the things they wanted to do before/instead of having kids.
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: If you have a baby at 28 you've spent a lot of the last few years reading books, articles, and watching documentaries about raising babies,
You have got to be kidding. The only way I can see this remotely being true is if someone was trying to get pregnant for those last few years. Or, I suppose, if they really wanted to have kids earlier but put it off for some reason. The vast majority of people who have kids later in life don't spend the interim obsessing about babies -- they're busy doing all the things they wanted to do before/instead of having kids.
I missed this one earlier...wow, is that nuts. I had my first baby at 28 and I can assure you that the only time I spent reading anything about raising babies was the approximately 36 weeks between the positive pregnancy test and the day the baby came. And most of that time, I was more concerned with hurrying up and having a bit of last minute fun before the baby came! Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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While I suspect few spend all their time studying for it, I would not be surprised at all that someone who had their first baby at 29 had watched, read, and heard more about parenting than a 19-year-old.
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I had been doing research of the kind you refer to since I was, oh, at least 15. So, having my first baby at almost 21, that's almost 6 years of research. And more once I, you know, actually got pregnant, and then more once I actually had a child.
Do I think wisdom comes with experience? Sometimes. Do I think experience comes with age? Often. Do I think most people do as much research as I did/do? Not remotely (present company excepted. )
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all.
Very true- my friends with just one child are regularly shocked with the laxness three kids has brought me.
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I had been doing research of the kind you refer to since I was, oh, at least 15. So, having my first baby at almost 21, that's almost 6 years of research. And more once I, you know, actually got pregnant, and then more once I actually had a child.
Do I think wisdom comes with experience? Sometimes. Do I think experience comes with age? Often. Do I think most people do as much research as I did/do? Not remotely (present company excepted. )
In my admittedly limited experience, the women who do the most research prior to actually getting pregnant are he ones who start having babies around the age you did. The friends I currently have who are in their late 20's/early 30's and still don't have children also have no clue about babies.
Also, in my admittedly limited experience, books can't really explain what it's like to have a baby. No amount of research can substitute for hands-on experience. It's possible that with age, a person might have more chances to be around babies.
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: It's possible that with age, a person might have more chances to be around babies.
But IME, not terribly likely. I had LOTS of experience with babies before I had one at 19 -- oldest of 5 and babysat all the time as a teenager. My friends who had babies later, often didn't have much in the way of younger sibs or babysitting experience, and were generally focused on school or career, not babies. When they started having kids in their late 20s, they'd had less experience than I'd had at 19.
IMO, there are certainly reasons to wait past 19-21 to have kids. But having the opportunity for more experience is low on the list.
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Romanylass, your comment reminds me of how horrified we were the first time my wife and I saw our first child fall four feet off the back of a chair onto her face, bending her head backwards as she eventually landed on her back. (She then walked away).
The fourth or fifth time my youngest son did such a stunt, we weren't nearly as impressed.
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Of course, what is bad is when your first (and only) child does crazy, crazy stuff that the leaves laid back mothers of four in complete panic.
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all.
Very true- my friends with just one child are regularly shocked with the laxness three kids has brought me.
I am going to go through this cycle something fierce. I saw one of my friend's kids go down on the pavement face first not too long ago and just WATCHING it was the most profoundly uncomfortable sensation I have ever ever ever known. There is no way to describe it short of inventing a portmanteau of fear, pain, and adrenaline gunning. It's gonna be worse when I get a kid! I'll always be going AUGH NO DON'T SKIN YOUR KNEE IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD AUUGH STAY INSIDE THIS CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED HERMETIC BUBBLE WITH ONLY SOFT SURFACES, STAY IN THERE TILL YOU ARE 18, DO IT FOR DADDY.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Wait until the pediatrician tells you that kids can run fevers of 106 or 107.... and you see your kid do it.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: It's possible that with age, a person might have more chances to be around babies.
But IME, not terribly likely. I had LOTS of experience with babies before I had one at 19 -- oldest of 5 and babysat all the time as a teenager. My friends who had babies later, often didn't have much in the way of younger sibs or babysitting experience, and were generally focused on school or career, not babies. When they started having kids in their late 20s, they'd had less experience than I'd had at 19.
IMO, there are certainly reasons to wait past 19-21 to have kids. But having the opportunity for more experience is low on the list.
quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: Wait until the pediatrician tells you that kids can run fevers of 106 or 107.... and you see your kid do it.
Um, I think I am supposed to call a doctor if ANYONE has a fever over 104, not just children.
And if they're under 12 weeks I am pretty sure that you gotta call it in if the fever goes over just 100.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I've noticed something among parent's I call first child syndrome. I'm not talking here about being a first child, I'm talking about the syndrome associated with having your first child. Its sort of a an obsessive almost paranoid parenting style that tends to go away with the second child
After my first was born, I tended to turn every conversation to the details of her poop. It was probably 75% of what I thought about.
(laughs) Along the same vein, there's an entire photo album full of pictures of my oldest brother, the firstborn. I was next, and then my sister (the first girl) was born.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: It's possible that with age, a person might have more chances to be around babies.
But IME, not terribly likely. I had LOTS of experience with babies before I had one at 19 -- oldest of 5 and babysat all the time as a teenager. My friends who had babies later, often didn't have much in the way of younger sibs or babysitting experience, and were generally focused on school or career, not babies. When they started having kids in their late 20s, they'd had less experience than I'd had at 19.
Yeh. I have 5 younger siblings and had lots of experience baby sitting my youngest brother and sister from the time of their births until they were 7 or 8 years old. I also babysat for other families when I was a teenage. I had a regular baby sitting job 8 hours a day 3 days a week for a 6 month old one summer. Since I started college (29 years ago) I have very rarely baby sat. As an adult, I love holding other peoples babies but I happily hand them back to mom or dad when they need a change. I did spend a week helping my sister after she had her twins but that was pretty exceptional. I'm relatively confident I had lots more experience tending babies and small children as a teenager than I've had in the subsequent 3 decades.
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: Our pediatrician is a doctor.
And I think the point was that if your pediatrician is telling you not to call if your child is running a fever of 106 because its nothing to worry about, it seems fairly recklessly irresponsible. Maybe you ought to consider finding a new doctor.
I guess on the other hand if your child was running a fever of 106 and the doctor tried to calm you by telling you that children often experience such high fevers and recover just fine -- then its a different story.
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I don't see anywhere that Flying Fish's doctor said not to call about a high fever -- just that kids' fevers do go that high sometimes.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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We had our first when my wife was 23 and I was 27. But I don't think it really mattered how old we were. Our daughter reset the clock for both of us and demanded that we start out at Square One with her. I'm 35 but my "real" age is 8, the age of our oldest. Things before then were part of another life. And I had had plenty of experience with babies and young kids already, as had my wife. But there's nothing like that first kid coming along to change your life. Like I heard someone say once, you don't raise your kids; they raise you. QFT.
Some friends of mine just adopted their first, a newborn baby girl. Holy cow, what an awesome thing to see. It's the first adoption I've really been closely acquainted with. That they didn't go through the pregnancy did not matter--I saw the same joy and wonder in their faces (and fatigue and a bit of terror) that I have in any new parents--and even more, because they had hoped and prayed so hard to have that chance when they couldn't have one on their own.
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afr, I had the same thing happen to me when I adopted a teenager. I had this joy and wonder and ohmygosh I'm responsible now for this person and what if I screw up and ruin his life, they've been gone too long in the mall now and what if they don't come back ohmygosh ohmygosh thing that went on. Somehow I thought the whole motherhood thing would be different for me because I didn't get pregnant, didn't change diapers, and my son was so much older when we got adopted, but I did lose a whole lot of sleep so maybe that's part of it.
But mostly it's just being a mom changed me. I never knew it was possible to hurt more deeply vicariously than I do in the first person. Mother-love for a child is so much more fierce and visceral than any other sort of love I've experienced. It doesn't seem to matter at all that I came to motherhood in an unconventional way, that I joined the secret society of motherhood without doing the weird initiation rite, as Chrissy Hynde described it. It's amazing.
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As a parent, I am willing to make ad infinitum the distinction between a benefactor and a parent.
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It seems more about personality than age in regards to how much people think about babies and read about babies before they have them. I am a reader so it is no shock at all that I devoured lots and lots of baby info before I had my daughter. I also went through a year where I just HAD to have a baby. I thought about it all the time. Because of our living situation it wasn't possible at the time so I spent a lot of time just reading and thinking about having a baby. I don't think it was an age thing at all.
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
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I'm not the arbiter. I'm saying that you are the only person here who sees no distinction between adopting (for insurance reasons) an eighteen-year-old man against the wishes of his parents and actual parenthood; you are the only person to whom it "doesn't matter" that you came to have him in your house in an unconventional way.
That is not parenthood, Anne Kate, and your insistence that it is borders on unhealthy delusion. I will point this out as often as necessary.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Tom, you know absolutely nothing about me and mine, and you just embarrass yourself by pontificating this way about things sacred to someone else's life. Why do you persist? Over the years I think I've made it completely clear that your pop-psyche judgments on me and mine are unwelcome. You smear the sacred with your cynical insolence. It's completely easy to do that. It doesn't mean you're clever in the least. What is it you're trying to accomplish? If I could teach you only one thing, in the 10 years or so that you've been here, I would have it be this. Comment cynically on your own deeply held emotions if you wish. Don't try to smear other people's. You can learn this. I know you can.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:I am willing to make ad infinitum the distinction between a benefactor and a parent.
At some point, I believe the return is going to amount to less than the effort expended. For me, that point was about 20 minutes after the conversation started the last time.
I get the feeling you care more, Tom.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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There's no pop psych on this, Anne Kate. You will not find a single person on this board -- heck, you will not find a single person anywhere -- that will compare the bond you have to that man to the bond he has with his actual parents.
It is an opinion you have chosen to hold, and which you reinforce through repetition. It is, however, completely wrong. Sadly, I cannot demonstrate it to you because you haven't raised any actual children to experience the difference.
Eighteen is not a formative year. Eighteen is, in fact, the year most people start breaking away from their actual parents to form their adult lives. This has nothing to do with adoption or natural birth, by the way; it has everything to do with the fact that he was already a full-grown adult when you acquired him.
You helped this man when he needed it, and you are to be commended for that. But I firmly believe that you do yourself a disservice and seriously dishonor his actual parents by calling yourself his parent, by posting in New Mommy threads, by expecting actual mothers with breastfeeding concerns to share your worries about whether or not this young man living in your house is eating properly. Every time you do it, I believe very strongly that you are spitting on the concept of parenthood.
In the old days, there was a word for what this guy is. He's your ward.
------
quote:I get the feeling you care more, Tom.
Well, duh. Isn't apathy your thing?Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Tom, You sound astoundingly like the people who argue that same sex marriage is an affront to the concept of marriage. Give it a rest.
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quote:Tom, You sound astoundingly like the people who argue that same sex marriage is an affront to the concept of marriage. Give it a rest.
Does he? Wow, here I thought he sounded like a sane person talking to a crazy person. Your comparison leaves me (literally) scratching my head.
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I agree with what Tom said in many ways, but I don't see why he feels the need to say it. He knows it will not change anyone's mind and will just be hurtful, so why bring it up?
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Are you saying that if you continually see someone do something you're convinced is wrong and hurtful you should ignore it if you don't think you can change their minds?
"Well, the South is really committed to slavery -- let's just let them be."
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all.
Very true- my friends with just one child are regularly shocked with the laxness three kids has brought me.
I am going to go through this cycle something fierce. I saw one of my friend's kids go down on the pavement face first not too long ago and just WATCHING it was the most profoundly uncomfortable sensation I have ever ever ever known. There is no way to describe it short of inventing a portmanteau of fear, pain, and adrenaline gunning. It's gonna be worse when I get a kid! I'll always be going AUGH NO DON'T SKIN YOUR KNEE IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD AUUGH STAY INSIDE THIS CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED HERMETIC BUBBLE WITH ONLY SOFT SURFACES, STAY IN THERE TILL YOU ARE 18, DO IT FOR DADDY.
That is a way to make a kid who is helpless.
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Are you saying that if you continually see someone do something you're convinced is wrong and hurtful you should ignore it if you don't think you can change their minds?
"Well, the South is really committed to slavery -- let's just let them be."
I would say with slavery, you should speak up. But I am not convinced how much harm Tatiana's belief that she is the man's mother actually does.
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all.
Very true- my friends with just one child are regularly shocked with the laxness three kids has brought me.
I am going to go through this cycle something fierce. I saw one of my friend's kids go down on the pavement face first not too long ago and just WATCHING it was the most profoundly uncomfortable sensation I have ever ever ever known. There is no way to describe it short of inventing a portmanteau of fear, pain, and adrenaline gunning. It's gonna be worse when I get a kid! I'll always be going AUGH NO DON'T SKIN YOUR KNEE IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD AUUGH STAY INSIDE THIS CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED HERMETIC BUBBLE WITH ONLY SOFT SURFACES, STAY IN THERE TILL YOU ARE 18, DO IT FOR DADDY.
That is a way to make a kid who is helpless.
I have a friend who is extremely overprotective of her kids. One day, I managed to convince her to come to the neighborhood playground with me and my son. Her then 7-year-old daughter slid on some loose gravel on the sidewalk, fell, and skinned her knee. She went BERSERK! I mean, I was afraid this girl had broken her leg she was making such a fuss. Her mother spent the next 45 minutes trying to calm her down and eventually, the 7-year-old moped on a bench while her mom played with the younger kids.
I was feeling pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing but didn't say anything. My friend told me, "That's only the second time she's ever gotten a cut."
My first thought was, "Wow, that's messed up." but I managed to actually say, "Wow, she's had a blessed childhood."
I think my first thought was closer to right. Kids need to scrape their knees sometimes. It's good for them.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: We definitely worried/obsessed more with the first one than with the next two. If/when there's a fourth, it'll be a free for all.
Very true- my friends with just one child are regularly shocked with the laxness three kids has brought me.
I am going to go through this cycle something fierce. I saw one of my friend's kids go down on the pavement face first not too long ago and just WATCHING it was the most profoundly uncomfortable sensation I have ever ever ever known. There is no way to describe it short of inventing a portmanteau of fear, pain, and adrenaline gunning. It's gonna be worse when I get a kid! I'll always be going AUGH NO DON'T SKIN YOUR KNEE IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD AUUGH STAY INSIDE THIS CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED HERMETIC BUBBLE WITH ONLY SOFT SURFACES, STAY IN THERE TILL YOU ARE 18, DO IT FOR DADDY.
Well, it still upsets me just as much when my youngest falls down and gets hurt. (Although the oldest still holds the record; he tried running on concrete pavement and tripped, put out his hands, and neatly executed what I shall call the flat tire wheelbarrow. He pivoted right over his hands and when his forehead touched pavement it skidded with just about all of his weight on top of it. He still has a faint pink circle there to commemorate his gymnastic skin removal.)
But to contrast and compare: Oldest: all cabinets and drawers locked Youngest: Keep knives and chemicals out of reach
Oldest: Stairs locked and patrolled Youngest: She was so cute learning to crawl up the stairs
Oldest: OMG what is that grit in his pooooop!? Youngest: Heh, this is gritty.
Oldest: Is denim too coarse? Oh no, the embroidered logo will scratch. Youngest: Sackcloth. (Very pink, pretty, cute sacks.)
Oldest: Maybe we should cut the peas in half. Youngest: Want some help cutting your steak?
OK, I exaggerated on that last one.
Of course, we've also gotten a little better at a few things in addition to getting more relaxed about others. I almost think there might be a way to influence these child-creatures' behavior. I'm still looking into it.
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The three best pieces of parenting advice I got before I got the kids:
When you put them down for the night, if one cries and says "I'm lonely, I can't sleep, will you hold me? I want to be with you...." What ever you do, don't pick 'em up. Tell 'em, "Yes you can go to sleep; see ya tomorrow." Then leave. After a week they get the message.
When they fall and get hurt, don't run to them, pick them up, and hug them. Tell 'em "You're not hurt. Get up by yourself."
And when they're old enough so you don't have to worry about them choking and they're old enough to eat honey, then they start to eat what everybody else eats. Tandoori, hot wings, snails.... "If you don't want this, I'll get you some slices of bread."
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Her then 7-year-old daughter slid on some loose gravel on the sidewalk, fell, and skinned her knee. She went BERSERK! I mean, I was afraid this girl had broken her leg she was making such a fuss. Her mother spent the next 45 minutes trying to calm her down and eventually, the 7-year-old moped on a bench while her mom played with the younger kids.
I was feeling pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing but didn't say anything. My friend told me, "That's only the second time she's ever gotten a cut.
Don't blame this entirely on the Mother, the personality of the child plays and important role as well. I have a friend whose first child is naturally extremely cautious and safety conscious. He's 6 and has never had scrapes or bruises (well maybe one or two but almost never). His younger sister at 2 is a little hell raiser and is constantly getting scraped and bruised up despite her parents (and older brothers) best efforts to keep her safe. I happened to be there the first time she banged herself up when she was just starting to crawl. Her mother went to pieces (This never happened to her brother), but the mom has since them come to accept that she shouldn't try to protect the girl and is actually kind of proud of her daughters daring spirit.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: The three best pieces of parenting advice I got before I got the kids:
When you put them down for the night, if one cries and says "I'm lonely, I can't sleep, will you hold me? I want to be with you...." What ever you do, don't pick 'em up. Tell 'em, "Yes you can go to sleep; see ya tomorrow." Then leave. After a week they get the message.
When they fall and get hurt, don't run to them, pick them up, and hug them. Tell 'em "You're not hurt. Get up by yourself."
And when they're old enough so you don't have to worry about them choking and they're old enough to eat honey, then they start to eat what everybody else eats. Tandoori, hot wings, snails.... "If you don't want this, I'll get you some slices of bread."
Are you being facetious? I really can't tell... 'Cause I almost agree with the last one but the first two I can see how they'd maybe work for some families but I don't really agree with.
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