posted
Ok, I've been biting my tongue (fingers??) for a few days. But I have to be honest. This whole thread makes me want to get sick. All of the undercutting and the mean remarks remind me of second graders on a playground. So, let me play teacher and suggest that if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
posted
Sharpie, A friend of mine is going to his grandfather's grave today, after the parade. I think of this whole baseball(particularly Red Sox) thing not so much as religion, but as a deeply rooted cultural ritual of a different sort, which connects generations in mutual hope. It is real to the people who feel it, but I can totally understand how people could not get it at all.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I think some people are missing the point that this is no longer about Pooka and her comment, but about all the people whose attitude has basically been, "So what? She's right. You all do need to get a life." And they all have not been joking (just as Pooka was basically not joking).
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posted
Yes, Elizabeth, I agree. I found that article I linked to very moving, actually. I grew up in New England. I was 12 years old in 1978. I remember riding around and around the block on my bike after that terrible game, angry and sad. The streets were emptier than usual, at least in the memory. Maybe people were inside staring in disbelief at their television sets. (It was a red white and blue Spirit of 76 bike with banana seat. For some reason, this is an important part of the memory .) This series has touched me more than I expected -- the memories of childhood, the links to the generations before me. I cared. I care. I wish my grandfather could have seen it.
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posted
I remember last year, when the Sox were playing the Yankees, and my husband was doing his Red Sox fan thing. "That's it, it's over." My son looked up at him with shock and horror, and said, "Dad! How can you say that?!?!" with tears in his eyes. My husband shook it off and went back to being hopeful. For the last twenty years I have known him, "this" has been the year. Now it really is. I think it is about the best fortieth birthday present a guy culd get. This is good, as I certainly have no clue what to get him.
Incidentally, did anyone see the Daily Show the night after the Sox won the ALC? Rob Cordry did the funniest bit I have ever seen. Then, the other night, he was doing a pretend commentary on Yasser Arafat's ill health, and was giggling because the Sox won the Series. Cracked me up.
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posted
Paul, as I said before, I do think you both overreacted, but I was glad to read your last post. It explained WHY you were so mad so much better than blowing up did, and it is far less likely to make people defensive.
I do understand what you are saying, and respect it to a point...enough to say that I am very glad for you and the other Boston fans who have a real history with that team.
I am a fan, but it is a recent thing for me, not being raised in this area. However, Detroit was a huge sports city in the 80's, and I was living in the burbs of it when some of the coolest times for sports were happening.
I don't think it is a religious experience per say, but that is the best analogy most sports fans can come up with because people get very intense when religion is mentioned fairly often, and some sports fans feel that intense about rooting for their team.
Not just because of the game though, particularly in Boston. In Boston so many years had passed that losing in October had become ingrained in the Sox fans psyche. They always found a way to lose, and generations watched the games hoping for something to be different year to year.
So the normal thoughts and actions of several generations became associated with baseball, the Red Sox in particular. People had their grandparents die without ever seeing their dreams for the Sox come true, and may family memories were permanently associated with watching the games with loved one..amny of whom are no longer alive to see the Curse (such as it was) be broken.
My wife and Mother-in-Law were two lifelong Sox fans whom stayed up to watch the WS, even though my wife had to get up for work at 6 am......and when the Sox finally won, after years of heartbreak and pain, my wife was insanely energetic.
She was so happy, but she was sorrowful too, and thought about her dead grandmother more that week than she had in a while.
So in a way, pooka was poking at all those memories, saying that because they don't matter to her they shouldn't matter to anyone.
A really bad joke that just escalated, until it went out of control.
See Paul, I do understand, at least a little....the Red Wings hadn't won since Gordy Howe when I became a fan in MI....
posted
Well, since this post has been responded to, I suppose I better put it back up. I'm not sure, yet, that its exactly what I want to write.
My post-
"It's a 24 hour a day, 365 days a year commitment to live and walk according to the will of God to the best of your ability - and that is a far cry from watching and appreciating a baseball game."
I don't GET religion. I think its centered around something that isn't real. But my mother is finishing rabbinical school and will be ordained in a few months... I don't tell her to get a life when she starts crying because she had a deeply meaningful experience during her chaplainship at a local hospital. My mother doesn't get baseball. To her, its simply a game, no more serious then playing a hand of hearts with us. But this week, she was thrilled for me and my brother, because the red sox winning was so important to us. I will attend her graduation and ordination, and be thrilled for her. We respect whats important in each of our lives. On this forum, I've tried to show the same respect for religious people as I show to my mother.
But respecting religion doesn't mean that, in a thread about the philosophy of religion, I won't put down my own views... because inquiry of a theological nature is important to me. I won't stay out of a thread just because people engaged are religious, and expressing religious views. If its a general question, I'm going to enter into it, because the stuff fascinates me. I also, however, won't jump into a celebration thread, and mock it. Thats a line of respect... someone can debate with me whether OPS is a better measure of a player's use to a team, or batting average. Someone can even debate with me whether sports are good for society or not... as long as its in proper context. Ruining a special event for someone is not the way to question whether their passtime is of significance. Should I post in a thread about baptism that I think the kid has been ruined for life, I'd expect to be chastised pretty harshly.
I still don't think I overreacted to pooka. I may have acted badly, but I won't apologize for it. I think she pretty much earned my responses. The fact that I don't respond to these sorts of stimuli in the way that perhaps our more "Refined" posters would like, is not something I am going to apologize for. Its who I am. Remember when someone doobied one of my serious threads? I blew a gasket. Thats who I am, NOW. At one point, I may have controlled myself... but controlling myself doesn't allow me to move past personal emotional injury, at this point in my life. I never was able to move past emotional injury by controlling my response. Maybe, at some point, I'll be able to have a controlled response, and be able to move past the injury. I can't right now. If that upsets you, frankly, I don't care one whit. I'm not going to hold grudges and feel anger and hatred for years, simply because you don't like the way I react. Don't belittle or insult me, and I won't blow up.
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posted
I loved the first two paragraphs. The third paragraph sounds very selfish, but it's also something you're aware of will probably deal with at some point.
I do thoroughly like the first two.
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posted
The third paragraph is the one I don't like either. its all true...
*Sigh* I bottled stuff up for a real long time, and it, at least in part, led to me being suicidal. I couldn't forgive people, or get what I need out of relationships, or do a lot of other necessary communication, because I bottled it up. THe reaction has been to go a long way the other way... its not GOOD, but its healthier then what I was doing, and I find it very difficult to go towards the center. Thats why I don't care what people think about the reaction... I need to do it. Need, not want. I recognize that it needs improvement, but it might take a long time for me to find a balance between emotional control, emotional outburst, and healthy relationships.
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posted
Paul, as long as you realize that you are farther along than you might think..
We all have issues we have to reslove, and not one of us is perfect. I get really mad too, but I don't direct it towards people, as I learned a long time ago it never leads to a good result. I may say things sometimes that I regret, but if I do I try to make amends for it....even though it is often too late to mend all the damage.
I am harder on myself more than on others, and that is hard for JenniK to deal with. You see, for some strange reason, she loves me...
Just keep at it, and try to find a balance between the extremes.
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.) This series has touched me more than I expected -- the memories of childhood, the links to the generations before me. I cared. I care. I wish my grandfather could have seen it.
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Paul
