posted
I'm just hazing you for all the times you come into a religious thread and proclaim your atheism, Paul. It was pointed at you.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Funny... I don't think I've ever done that except to offer my opinion, nor do I think I've come into a religious thread and been disrespectful of religious people (intentionally... its always possible it happens unintentionally). And I KNOW I haven't done it at all in over a year. And I KNOW I've never told religious people to get a life.
[This post has been edited at the request of multiple Hatrackers to delete the childish name-calling.]
posted
pooka, trying to make a point by hurting someone (or trying to hurt someone) is very disrespectful and spiteful.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I read the pages...don't get any of it. Where's the conflict? Just seems to be "Win for Dad" over and over again.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Thats sorta the point, Phanto. The red sox are more then "just a game" to Red Sox fans. Its a part of who we are, and that goes back to our fathers, and our grandfathers, and in many cases, our great-grandfather's.
Pooka- Point out to me where I did anything comprable to completely dismissing something of central significance of your life, as if its not worth your time to be interested in it.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I told people who are senitmental about baseball to get a life in a different thread. It was a bad-mannered joke at how people often come into a thread about a subject they already know they hate and proceed to be a dog in the manger. Anyway, I guess it's good that I'm going to be mostly gone for a month. :kickself:
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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When I come into a religious thread, which incidentally isn't a topic I "hate," I have a specific point to make, and I try not to crap all over people who have faith. I may strongly disagree with certain viewpoints, but that doesn't mean I disrespect religious people.
You disrespected red sox fans.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Actually, I disrespect all sports fans. Just to keep it accurate. And a dog in the manger doesn't deliberately crap in it, he just spoils it by being who he is. (she, whatever). Is it not the natural course of things at Hatrack that every thread that celebrates something has a dissenter?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
So, the remark about getting a life, which you claimed was specifically directed at me, is an attempt to say that atheists shouldn't talk in religious threads. I see.
posted
I'm not either. Hatrack would be much the poorer without pooka's completely random non sequiturs. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Different things mean different things to different people.
It wasn't a cool comment in the other thread, but it didn't deserve this thread, Paul. I understand how much this means to you, but it is unreasonable to expect it to mean the same thing to others that is does to you.
I sort of chuckled at the comment myself, because I knew you didn't care what anyone else thought, you loved baseball, and that is all that matters.
But this is going too far....both of you.
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think it was meant as disrespectfully as you took it, Paul. I tell people to get a life sometimes, and I joke to my friends that we all need to get a life outside of playing pool...I am semi-serious as I say it, but if any of them freaked out on me the way you did on Pooka this thread I wouldn't care what they thought either, and would be pretty damn defensive about it too.
I think you could have made the point far better some other way.
posted
Paul, you wrote a beautiful post in the Boston thread and Pooka was a bit insensitive for mocking it.
But does she really deserve this much animosity?
What would Hatrack be if we were not allowed to mock the passionate beliefs people held about baseball, religion, abortion, homosexuality, etc?
From Paul's link:
quote:Not long after the final out, I suddenly remembered the elderly man I ran across during a power walk around Newton following Game Six of the 1986 World Series. When he saw me through the early morning mist, utterly dejected, helpless, in the throws of abject pathos, he stopped me and whispered, “Son, this is the darkest day in this town since Jack Kennedy was shot.”
He would assuredly agree with me now that this is the happiest day in this town since V.E. Day.
I also thought of my old neighbor, Mr. Jim Lakis, a passionate Red Sox fan for more than fifty years. If you walked by Mr. Lakis’s house the day after Game Six back in ’86, you would have observed a shattered television in the trash, a baseball bat lodged right through the screen. When I ran across Mrs. Lakis three weeks later at Star Market, she burst into tears. “We will never see it, will we, Shaunie” she cried.
posted
It will recover, it always does....but I hope she will be back before too long. I think she said elswhere she was going away for 3 weeks anyway...
posted
Paul, Your childish behavior is making pooka's point better than she ever could have. Dude, it's friggin' baseball. It's a game.
So she said that baseball fans need to get a life. Your reaction is actually illustrating this point. It can be important to you without you needing to throw a tantrum to "protect" it.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I just don't get sports fans. It's like they think sports are somehow important or something.
Sure Remember The Titans was an okay movie. But all they did was win a bunch of GAMES, for heaven's sake!
Call me when they do something important, like curing cancer, or making sure that every kid every born is loved and doesn't get the crap beat out of him by some beer-swilling sports fan.
Really, get a life. Seriously.
[ October 28, 2004, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Sweet William ]
Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Oh brother. That lunar eclipse must have done something to people, cause everyone is getting seriously... over intense and abrasive and nasty to everyone else around them.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
And I don't get people who think religion is important... but I've never been as disrespectful of pooka or any religious people here, as pooka was to red sox fans in the other thread. I posted that first link because it would give an idea of how important the red sox are to our LIVES. Its a social bonding, community building, part of our lives, and its intimately tied with family relationships.
She then told me that it was a response to my "crapping" on religious threads. Well, if I'd DONE anything as disrespectful as what she did, then maybe I'm being childish, but I haven't... so I think I, rightly, feel insulted by that.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Kwea, Ehh...I stand by what I said. But then, I'm not thinking that the get a life thing was meant to say that Paul or baseball fans don't actually have a life, but that they may have some perspective problems. And I think Paul's response has shown that this description fits him.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Squicky- Get a life. Drop the social sciences. They aren't real sciences and won't ever actually accomplish anything. Stop reading new studies, they aren't curing cancer of ending the war in iraq. Do something worthwhile with your life.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I like acting like a child, sometimes squicky. Its cathartic, and healthier for me then my previous attitude, which is when someone cuts me deep to act like an adult. It didn't work for me. Acting like a child works much better. I feel better afterwards, instead of like killing something.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
See, and yet I'm remarkably calm. If you ever come around to regret that, don't worry, you're already forgiven.
edit: Paul, see a big part of the problem is that you think pooka cut you deeply. That's just silly. It's words on a bulletin board (and relatively mild ones at that). It's not like she ran over your dog or something.
Catharsis to get rid of aggression also isn't a particularly effective method. It might be better than the ruminating on your perceived wrong that you did before, but that's not saying much.
Seriously, give letting it go a try, especially for something as minor as this. Don't let your anger control you. You'll live longer.
posted
Nope, I'm not regretting it. I'm simply pointing out that people put greater importance on different things. Pooka tried to make a point about me "Crapping" over religious threads, by crapping over a baseball thread... but STILL hasn't pointed out where I did that, other then by being an atheist posting in a thread about religion. The red sox are at least as important to me as pooka's religion is to her. So she's trying to make a point about something I don't do, by crapping on something thats very much a part of who I am. Because thats her attitude, I have no use for her, and I'm not ashamed to say that, in a manner that you consider "childish."
[This post has been edited to get rid of offensive language. The rest of the post has been allowed to stand despite its contentious nature, but the moderators are NOT amused. By the way, Mr. Goldner, you SHOULDN'T be "perfectly okay" with what you've done in this thread.]
posted
"Seriously, give letting it go a try, especially for something as minor as this. Don't let your anger control you. You'll live longer."
I did that before. For 18 years. Didn't work too much other then helping me get to a point where I wanted to kill myself. Like I said, this works better.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Paul, Yeah, it doesn't sound to me like you're describing 18 years of forgiving. It does sound a lot more like you were passive but ruminating.
It sounds like a total fluff piece, but Everett Worthington's book Five Steps to Forgiveness: The Art and Science of Forgiving is actually really good. He's made great strides towards improving the mental and physical health of people who have suffered grave wrongs, such as havinga loved ones murdered. His technique isn't jsut the moral thing to do, it actually seems to be one of the better ways of dealing that we've come up with.
Of course, there's always the old standard of Albert Ellis's How to Control Your Anger Before It Controls You. Old Albert had a big brain on him.
You're a smart guy. Give one of them a try. It may be a really good thing for you.
Or you could continue cursing at me. Your choice really.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Squick, I find it extremely annoying when people insist they know the 'right way to take things,' or otherwise condescend on such topics. I'm not you. Paul's not you. You're not Paul, and you're not me. Humans are complex creatures with emotions, memories, and opinions.
When you, or anyone, insists a person is being "too sensitive" or letting interests become too much a part of them, you're judging me from your own perspective. And there's no reason your perspective is any better than my own.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'm probably a bit late on this, but who cares.
quote: I posted that first link because it would give an idea of how important the red sox are to our LIVES. Its a social bonding, community building, part of our lives, and its intimately tied with family relationships.
Paul, I come from a rural Southern town, so I see part of your point. The entire town immerses itself in High School football. Didn't matter how bad our team was, loyal fans (not necessarily parents or relatives of players) would come sit in the stands and watch our little podunk team play.
When 911 happened, the band planned a special pre-game show for the upcoming home game. Our hotshot french horn player would give a stunning rendition of "Amazing Grace" and the flagline (including me) would hold American flags at attention.
My dad didn't want me to go to this game. He didn't think it was appropriate for such an event to take place, and he thought the schools were in the wrong to hold the game in the first place. He put his foot down, and I put my foot down, and I ended up going to the game without him.
What happened that night allowed all those loyal fans to really grieve and contemplate what happened three days earlier. It was a catharsis. What it my style of grieving? Absolutely not. Was it any less effective or appropriate than sitting by oneself or with one's family? Absolutely not.
I say this in the hopes that I can express how I understand your viewpoint.
However...
Baseball is a game. It's one of those things that, when it comes right down to it, is expendable. There are more important things. Like one's family, friends, personal honor, and the feelings of another living, breathing human being. If baseball were to disappear from the face of the planet, those things would still remain.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yes, they would... but life would be less worth living.
Baseball, for me, and the REd Sox in particular, are as close to religion as it really gets. If I walked into a thread about mormonism, and said "get a life" and then when someone posted a link that might offer insight into why that comment was totally innapropriate and hurtful, said that the "Get a life" was to prove a point about how the other person had been disrespectful about baseball, and then couldn't show that the other person had indeed been disrespectful, NO ONE on this board would be protesting that people yelling at me were acting "childish."
Maybe I'm overreacting... or maybe you aren't in my shoes.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
dabbler, Yeah, in this case, there is. For one thing, Paul has been acting immaturely (which I guess is at least marginally a subjective judgement) and violating the standards of this site (which is an objective thing).
For the other, the two books I recommended are the products of a great many years of research by two very smart people, who have shown that their methods actually work pretty well. They tell me things like what Paul are going are not good for him. I tell Paul. He can do whatever he wants. Maybe that's being condescending. If it is, I'm ok with that.
Although, if you think telling people not to curse other people out is really such an imposition of my values, I think I may have a very different view of manners and maturity than you do.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
You aren't over reacting Paul. The first comment was in joke, but the following ones almost merit your reaction. However, you both got a bit too rude and nasty to each other. I think you're right to feel insulted as you do, but you needn't get quite that nasty about it, and I think thats what a lot of other poeple are trying to say. Then again, some of them are being just as insulting or more than Pooka... whats up with people on this board tonight? My impression has generally been one that people are understanding and forgiving of each other... but thats certainly not been the case tonight...
Edit: and Paul, she did apologize a while back... in the Red Socks thread, I dunno whether or not you saw it.
posted
Paul, If they told you to F off and it became a thing, yes I would be telling them that they were acting childishly. And they would be.
In fact, I'm reasonably sure I've done that at least once of twice, though not necessarily with someone responding to you.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Squick, my concern was with your last paragraph about baseball, not the cursing. It's likely wrong for Paul to curse on hatrack. I'm not getting into that argument.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Ralphie, I cut you out because you and I have very different ideas about what respect means. Your words didn't hurt me. They showed that you didn't respect me in the way that I understood it and that I was relying on, and that hurt.
posted
I would say that the comparison between Religion and The Red Sox is not a very good one. True the Red Sox are very important to you and to your community, but they do not affect salvation.
For me music plays a huge role in my life. It takes up most of my thoughts and time, but I realize not everyone can appreciate it the way I do. I do not blame you for being annoyed by Pooka's comment, but not everyone can appreciate the Red Sox the way you do.
Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
No, they can't... but I can't appreciate religion like our religious members can. Does that give me the right to be disrespectful of it? No, it doesn't... in fact, I am very careful to try to respect people who are religious, and their religion, BECAUSE I don't share in the appreciation.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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quote: I cut you out because you and I have very different ideas about what respect means. Your words didn't hurt me. They showed that you didn't respect me in the way that I understood it and that I was relying on, and that hurt.
I guess I'm not smart enough to see the difference between that and what happened here.
edit: For what it's worth, that's all right. I'm not really looking for an explanation of previous events. All of us act like kids sometimes, and while it's nice when people come along and remind us to act like adults, it's also nice when they acknowledge that they, too, have had their moments. Even if they profess to be calm as still water.
quote:I would say that the comparison between Religion and The Red Sox is not a very good one. True the Red Sox are very important to you and to your community, but they do not affect salvation.
Are you really trying to convince an atheist to look at things in terms of relativity to salvation? Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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