posted
Wow -- six pages of posts in two days? I don't think I'm gonna read back through all of this.... Must be strong opinions here.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: I was refering to an added 20% service charge, where the customer has no control over tip. It wouldn't matter if it was a good tipper or a bad tipper, because there would be the "forced gratuity." Therefore a server makes more if they sell more, and the only way to sell more is to be a good server. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea.
I don't like it and probably wouldn't go to such a place much. Let the restaurant come to their own agreement with the servers and take care if it themselves. I really don't care to be a part of their accounting service. I don't want an itemized bill that shows my portion of what goes to the Sysco delivery truck driver, the cooks, management, franchise fee, advertisizing, servers, etc etc. I just want to see, on the menu, how much a dish is and pay that price when I'm done.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
It doesn't matter what I think. It DOES matter what the servers and restaurants think. You understand that they think so.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:JT -- in the post you quoted, I think "good server" was defined as a server who manages to serve a lot of people a lot of food.
Ahh. See, that's not good. That's fast. They're not necessarily the same, and it seems to me that that definition of 'good' is more beneficial to the server and owner than the customer.
Since turnaround isn't the main consideration of most diners. Good food, good service, and a reasonable price are.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: It doesn't matter what I think. It DOES matter what the servers and restaurants think. You understand that they think so.
Good point.
I still choose to not be bound to this "agreement" that I never agreed to.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Do servers honestly think that the social contract doesn't include good service? And by good service I mean being polite, understanding, helpful, and efficient.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:I still choose to not be bound to this "agreement" that I never agreed to.
Since you understand that they will intepret your actions as if you have, then you either cannot go to restaurants where tipping is expected or else MUST inform the waiter at first meeting that no tip will be forthcoming. Otherwise you are taking advantage.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by solo: Do servers honestly think that the social contract doesn't include good service? And by good service I mean being polite, understanding, helpful, and efficient.
Almost all servers understand this completely. That is why they are shocked when they give good service and get horrible/no tips. When waiting tables I would occasionally have a bad day, and when I got bad tips because of it, I was neither suprised nor offended.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
They are working under the norm. You are working under one that is not the norm. The onus is on you.
I think it's fantastic to march to the beat of your own drummer. I think it's very rude to expect everyone to change their beats to yours without notification.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I think that they have as much duty to explain to me the implied social contract they're working under as I do.
That is true, they do. That's why most restaurants have a little blurb at the bottom of the menu stating that 15% tips are customary. Or were you expecting servers to start their table banter with a talk about expected compensation?
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:That is true, they do. That's why most restaurants have a little blurb at the bottom of the menu stating that 15% tips are customary.
Notice that those blurbs never say "regardless of service", which is the social contract that apparently I'm supposed to follow.
Also, "customary" is not the same thing as "expected", "mandatory", or "for all people who aren't theives".
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by solo: Do servers honestly think that the social contract doesn't include good service? And by good service I mean being polite, understanding, helpful, and efficient.
Almost all servers understand this completely. That is why they are shocked when they give good service and get horrible/no tips. When waiting tables I would occasionally have a bad day, and when I got bad tips because of it, I was neither suprised nor offended.
Which is why I think most people are against the forced tip idea. A customer should have the right to decide how much to tip someone based on their level of service. I fully believe that this tip should be completely seperate from the wage that the server makes (which should be at least the minimum wage for the state - not a different "server" wage).
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:That's only if you believe that the social contract is that a tip is required regardless of the level of service. My opinion is more in line with the concept that a tip is a way of acknowledging the quality of the service. But I live in Canada and servers here are paid at least the minimum wage of the province (and their tips are completely on top of that wage).
The Canadian social contract is a slightly different one from the US social contract, which has resulted in many jokes about Canadians being cheap. A lot of that comes from the fact that tipping is not as expected north of the border.
quote:I still choose to not be bound to this "agreement" that I never agreed to.
You're not bound to anything. You can parade in a santa suit in front of orphans, flaunting a bag of gits and giving them nothing. We're not stopping you. Go to it. You never agreed to give them anything.
Be prepared to have people call you a jerk, though, for spoiling the expectations of all the orphans.
You can choose not to tip, too, but be prepared to have servers call you a jerk and curse you behind your back (and possibly to your face), or worse.
Not that I'm advocating this in the least, but there have been people stabbed by disgruntled waiters after not leaving a tip. While the patron I'm sure feels they did nothing to deserve retaliation, the waiter surely did.
If you know of a social convention/expectation and willingly break it, don't be surprised if people think less of you for your actions.
As an aside, I worked with a waiter named Frank in Atlanta who was very good at working big parties. One night there was a table of 18 that were out from some big downtown company. They bought a lot of wine, lots of drinks, lots of food, and made a total mess of the tables and floor in their section. The waiter was as upbeat and positive as always, and the group had a great time. Their bill came to over $1,500.
Then they left without leaving a tip.
Frank was livid. It was his entire night, including cleaning up after them, and not a penny.
The thing is, he had talked a lot with them and found out where they worked. He went down to that company the next day and raised holy hell. He called out individual people that he remembered as being cheapskates and jerks, demanded to see their boss, and generally raised a huge ruckus.
Amazingly enough, the boss came out to talk with him and calm him down, and ended up giving him $300 out of his own pocket after apologizing for the way his workers acted.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in that office after Frank left (and I'm very surprised they didn't have him removed by security).
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Notice that those blurbs never say "regardless of service", which is the social contract that apparently I'm supposed to follow.
Okay, I now see that this is not something we have had an understanding on. In the only social contract I'm aware of (in regards to tipping servers) it is understood that bad service results in bad tips, really really bad service means no tips, and average to good service results in 15% and up. I don't think anyone expects you to tip 20% for a horrible server. I would hope you'd put down at least 5%, but if the service is bad enough, I fully support not tipping. But I would first talk to the manager and let them know why there will be no tip.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
The problem is that no one really follows the 'standard' on any consistent basis. Several posters have mentioned changing their tipping habits depending on the time of day, price of food, and other factors out of the control of the server.
The result of all this is that if you leave a 5% tip, the waiter has no idea if it's due to poor service or because you're cheap. My guess is that the majority will assume the latter, which defeats the purpose of using the tip as feedback for your server.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Sorry for the double post, but I just had a thought (hard to believe, I know).
I think I'll try (when eating alone or when I'm buying the meal for everyone at the table (aka a date)) telling the server up front that I will tip X dollars or X% of the bill as a base. That way they'll know if they get more they did an exemplary job and if they get less they slacked.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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If the waiter behaves in some egregious manner (is insulting, for instance, or sneezes in your food and then gives it to you, or some other ridiculousness), I would totally complain to the manager and give him no tip. Likely, I would press to have the food comped, as well.
But if a waiter brings the food and drinks asked for, stops by a couple times to see if anything is needed, and brings the check when asked - he did his job, and should get a tip.
The matter is how much.
If he did things at an average, he deserves an average tip. If he was very slow or misinputs things in the computer or forgot to get things asked for, etc (actual server mistakes), I understand giving a lower tip than your average. If he was personable and friendly and brought something positive to the dining experience beyond mere servitude, I would think he'd get a better than average tip.
The thing is, what's average?
For me, average is 20%. But I've been a server, and I'm more sympathetic to the server's world. A poor serving experience may bring me down to 15% and a good serving experience may bump it to 25%.
The most publicized standard is a 15% average, with variance in both directions.
It's people whose average is 10% that bother me, or who walk in expecting to leave 10% or less. Worst is if they don't believe in tipping and will leave nothing regardless of service.
If you go to a server based restaurant, expect average service and expect to tip an average amount. It's pretty simple.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Which is why it is a good idea to talk to a manager, or at least tell the waiter. I agree that if you just leave $2 on the table and leave, the server will think your a jerk. But if you talk to a manager and tell them why, the server will be strongly encouraged to improve and no one will think the less of you.
And, while it is true that a lot of what makes a person tip is out of the servers control, and that a lot of people will tip the same way regardless of service, we can still make the effort to work within the system and use it correctly. I disagree with taking an fatalist attitude about it: "If the server won't be getting any feedback from the tip I leave, then it just doesn't matter how much I tip." It does still matter. A lot.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:The problem is that no one really follows the 'standard' on any consistent basis. Several posters have mentioned changing their tipping habits depending on the time of day, price of food, and other factors out of the control of the server.
Yes, but most people talked about increasing their tips based on factors, not decreasing them. There is still a standard base.
quote:The result of all this is that if you leave a 5% tip, the waiter has no idea if it's due to poor service or because you're cheap. My guess is that the majority will assume the latter, which defeats the purpose of using the tip as feedback for your server.
Very true. The cheapskates of the world have taken the teeth out of leaving a bad tip as a means of showing displeasure.
If you want to show displeasure, find a manager. As has been said by vonk, myself, and others.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Because it being seperate is the only way to ensure it goes to the server.
Which is all the more reason why servers should not collect tips at ALL, but should be paid SALARIES. That way, you know exactly what goes to the server.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:If you go to a server based restaurant, expect average service and expect to tip an average amount. It's pretty simple.
Exactly. And I would put an average tip at 15%. If your not willing to pay that average tip, expecting average service, then you should go to Luby's.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Yes, they SHOULD be, but they AREN'T. And I maintain that if you intend to not tip based on a protest of the payment system, you should make this clear to the server and the management.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:With a tip, you know exactly how much goes to the server.
That's actually not the case, since I don't know the base salary of the server, or what the restaurant's tip policy is.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
That's true. Tip-out can be a b**** sometimes. I've had nights were I only pull in $25 and then I have to turn around and give $8 to the bussers and hosts. But, that's just the way it is sometimes.
But you can pretty much assume that almost every restaurant you walk in to is paying the servers within 25 cents of bare minimum.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I don't buy more food if my server is a good server. I buy the food I am craving. As a pregnant woman, I can pretty much guarantee you that if I am craving mozarella sticks, the only thing I will buy is mozarella sticks. If the waiter tries to sell me on something more expensive or different, I might stab him with a fork. Cause dang it, I came in for mozarella sticks and that is what I want. The percentage thing is actually one of the reasons I don't like tipping. If I go into Olive Garden and get the soup/breadstick all you can eat meal (which is pretty cheap), the waiter has to do just as much work as if I ordered the most expensive meal on the item. So, now the waiter is penalized because of what I ordered, not anything he did. As far as the social contract, I view it as I will tip you in accordance with how good my service is. If you offend and anger me greatly, you get nothing. If you do some things wrong, enough that I am perturbed, maybe 10% tip. If you neither anger nor please me 15% and if you do somehting that makes my dining experience more pleasurable, you get greater than 20%. The 0 tip would be a time when I would complain to manager as well as leaving no tip (though I have has a waitress tell me the manager was on break and wouldn't be back for atleast an hour so she just got 0 tip without complaint to manager).
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: The Canadian social contract is a slightly different one from the US social contract, which has resulted in many jokes about Canadians being cheap. A lot of that comes from the fact that tipping is not as expected north of the border.
It is not true that tipping is not as expected in Canada. Tipping is expected at any restaurant where a server takes your order and brings your food. 15% is pretty much standard but only if the social contract is kept on both sides.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:As far as the social contract, I view it as I will tip you in accordance with how good my service is. If you offend and anger me greatly, you get nothing. If you do some things wrong, enough that I am perturbed, maybe 10% tip. If you neither anger nor please me 15% and if you do somehting that makes my dining experience more pleasurable, you get greater than 20%. The 0 tip would be a time when I would complain to manager as well as leaving no tip (though I have has a waitress tell me the manager was on break and wouldn't be back for atleast an hour so she just got 0 tip without complaint to manager).
If everyone did this, there would be little to no problem.
As for the good servers selling more thing, that works over an entire shift. An individual isn't going to order something they don't want, but a good server will be able to read his customers, and know his product well enough that he can increase his sales by suggesting something that the customer genuinely wants, they just didn't know it.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I actually like the current system. I think servers generally make more this way (albeit with more variance), and we get better service than they do in, say, Europe where there isn't as much incentive to not ignore you for long stretches. I'd regard pretty much all the suggested changes as a step backwards.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:We use implied social contracts all the time. When I walk on the metro, I agree that if there are no seats, I will stand instead of sitting one someone's lap.
I think there's a big difference between implied social contracts, like the metro example, and implied financial contracts. Like you said, we use implied social contracts all the time, and I have no problem with that. But also think that implied financial contracts are pretty much always a bad idea.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by scholar: This might be a state by state thing, but I was told by a waiter that legally if your tips were so low that at the end of a pay period you had not made minimum wage, the employer must make that difference up. According to waiter, this law isn't well known and even if you know it, you probably would not make an issue of it. Anyone know if that is actually true?
Since I'm skipping a lot of posts when answering this question forgive me if it has already been answered, but yes. The restaurant is required by law to ensure that all of their staff are being paid at least minimum wage. Since they have to delcare what taxes they are paying and on what amounts the governement is very much aware if a restaurant is not doing this and could be smacked down by the department of labor.
posted
Solo, I apologize if I characterized Canadian tipping culture in error. It was the only explanation I've ever been given why Canadians (in particular those from Quebec) generally don't tip as well as US Citizens. It's been the reason given to me by Canadians, too, which is why assumed it to be true.
Having no direct experience with Canadian culture, I have to apologize and plead ignorance.
quote:a good server will be able to read his customers, and know his product well enough that he can increase his sales by suggesting something that the customer genuinely wants, they just didn't know it.
This was that guy Frank, who flipped out on that business party. He managed to make a party a party, and everyone always had a great time - and ordered more - than they thought they would. He'd make up interesting shots that everyone would want to try, or give such glowing reviews of some of our best items that people would buy more of them (it was a tapas style restaurant, so this worked better than it would in a traditional style restaurant).
People at his tables just had a lot of fun, and he ordinarily would walk out with 25% or more from a table. Though, on the other side of the coin, he'd sometimes get tables who had a lot of fun, but still didn't tip well at all.
As I've said already, tip amount is based as much or more on the customer as it is on the quality of service.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Some people in this thread have suggested that in a salary based system a waiter has little incentive to provide good service. This is, of course, not the case. The waiter is employed by the owner of the restaurant, and if he is not providing the restaurant's customers with good service he is not doing his job and can be fired. Simple as that. Rude, inattentive or slow waiters are a certain way for restaurants to lose repeat customers and acquire a bad reputation, so the owners have a strong incentive to keep an eye on their servitors. Really, it moves the responsibility to admonish bad waiters from the customers onto the employers, where, frankly, I think it properly belongs.
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Another thing, in a tipping system, what is the justification for giving a percentage tip rather than a fixed sum of §X? I realise that in a high-end establishment you can expect better service (or more fawning or whatnot), but is the work of serving a §100 dinner really worth ten times as much in tipping as one costing §10?
Posts: 896 | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote: but is the work of serving a §100 dinner really worth ten times as much in tipping as one costing §10?
Yes, it is. It is much different, and much harder, to wait tables in a high end restaurant. I've worked at IHOP and at Pappa's Seafood House (a semi-fine dining restaurant) and there is a VAST difference in the time and energy it takes to prep and serve at a higher end restaurant. From more complex garnish, to more specific changes and modifications, to making sure that everything is absolutely perfect in the delivery and presentation. You are also more attentive to the table, refill drinks more frequently, are more courteous and accomodating on top of having to appear neater and nicer and pay for dry cleaning.
So yes, it is quite a bit different serving a $100 dinner as opposed to a $10 dinner. The person serving the former works harder and deserves a larger compensation.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Been lurking in this thread for a while, want to add a bit to the discussion.
== Factual Stuff == Living in Canada, having spent a good amount of time in China, and a reasonable amount of time in the US.
I can agree that the average tip in the US is between 15% and 20% while the average tip in Canada is between 10% and 15%. As I understand it, as a result (or perhaps a cause) servers here are paid decent wages. Paying for stuff in China is a breeze because there is no sales tax and no tipping (aside from tour guides and tour drivers that know that this is a good way to exploit tourists). I would love to have such a convenient system in Canada/US. On an aside, I do recall a tour guide in France that explicitly refused a tip when we asked him(!) what the custom was, saying that he was a professional and that as a professional it would be degrading to accept a tip.
== Less factual stuff ===
I would like to flesh-out that little side-thread about the economics of not tipping.
Let's assume a system (with tipping) at equilibirum with X restaurants, Y servers, and Z customers.
Now, what happens if only Z-5 customers continue (long-term) as a protest against tipping? Well, there is less revenue at restaurants so both X and Y decrease until the system is back at equilibrium. The remaining servers are still being tipped the same and ther remaining restaurants still pay the servers the same. While a short term reduction in customers can reduce the number of servers (as restaurants cut costs), long term the restaurants will reduce in number and still optimally pay servers the same amount and expect the same tips.
Now, what happens if all Z customers reduce their tips? Of the Y servers, some will seek better jobs, those that cannot will either seek better jobs or become less efficient as a protest (causing the restaurants to either raise wages in order to either retain servers or better motivate those that remain). The biggest argument seems to be "But customers not tipping as well take-up space!" Yes, but only in the short term. If customers that tip badly leave, then there will be fewer restaurants and fewer servers. Customers do not "take up" space, they are the only reason space exists in the first place.
A badly tipping customer that displaces a well-tipping person, does not cause the well-tipping person to leave the system. They either go to another restaurant or cause demand for more restaurants.
Thus, for those seeking a change in the current system, the choice seems very clear.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:As it stands it seems the restaurants are not paying their servers for the work and instead pretending that the servers are independent contractors working for the customer (and I wonder how many times a year I'd have to eat at a fancy restaurant before I should be giving my regular server a form 1099).
My sister worked at a pancake house while she was in high school and they sent her a 1099 instead of a W-2.
It cost them big time, but apparently they had been getting away with it for years and no one had spoken up.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Oh, and one other note, for a system that claims to reward good service, tipping is a pretty bad way of doing things.
Along with the problems with not being able to tell whether a low tip is caused by (being foreign, being on a budget, genuine protest, a bad day, bad service, an arithmetic mistake) or bad service. A much bigger determinant of your tips seems not to be your tipping percentage, but your meal.
Let's say I walk into a restaurant and order (for simplcity) a $100 steak and I tip the average 15%. That is $15. A "bad tipper" tips 10% which is $10. A "good" tipper tips 20% which is $20. So the range is $10 to $20. However, let's say I just got paid so I order a steak twice as big at $200. The range is now $20 to $40. The "bad" tipper on payday is now tipping the same as the the good tipper on a normal day.
Even worse, say the "bad" tipper got a glass of wine to celebrate at $20 while the good tipper got water. The "bad" tipper is now paying $2 vs. $0. The "bad" tipper is paying infinitely times more tips than the "good tipper."
The server didn't do anything different. The disparity in tips due to the type of meal seems to be much bigger than that from tipping habits.
Why not whine about what people order rather than their tipping habits when that would seem more effective?
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
You are assuming that most "bad" tippers leave a specific percentage. I have not found that to be the case. In my experience "bad" tippers have a specific amount that they tip, often as little as $1-2 (or even the change (coins) that they get back after paying) regardless of the amount of food that they order. Here in the south we have the people who leave religious tracts instead of tips as well. These people were annyoing for two reasons. 1) They assume that since I work in a restaurant that I am not a Christian and that they need to leave me literature so that I might convert; and 2)they do not seem to realize that if I were not already a Christian, leaving me a piece of literature instead of money isn't going to make me open to a religious conversion, it's just going to upset me.
Good tippers are the people who don't just factor up the x percentage of their bill, but take into account the amount of time they spent at my table. This is why most people consider a "good" tip to be upwards of 15%. For example, I had a famly sit in my section and take two of my tables. They ordered coffee and sodas and an order of fries. The order probably didn't come to more than $10. But they also stayed for an hour and a half. When I cleaned the tables there was a $20 tip waiting for me. Obviously I would never expect anyone to leave me a 200% tip so this was unexpected. However, the family took into account the fact that I was an attentive server and that they were taking up two of my tables for a long time during a relatively busy portion of the day. Realizing that I could have made more money (those tables could have been sat twice each in that time period) they left me enough to compensate.
That's something a "good" tipper does. Not necessarily tipping 200% but taking all the factors into account and leaving what they think is fair. A "bad" tipper in the same situation would have left me maybe a dollar. 10% yes, but how much more could I have made by having those tables sat twice over, even if they were both sat both times by "bad" tippers.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
A waiter working for a salary of $2.50 an hour has taken on an applied risk. This is not a responsibility of the customer to pay him more because he took on an applied risk. That applied risk is that he will really be making more than $2.50 an hour from his tips. Also, I will state here that if the person is not making at least 8% of the total income during their work period, the IRS requires the resturant to fund the difference. If this person is not willing to take on this applied risk, then they need to go and work at McDonalds where they will make minimum wage.
Gratuity is just that. It is a gift given by someone to show appreciation of the work that was done.
In my job, as a substitue teacher, I take on an applied risk. If the phone rings, I have a job. If it doesn't, I don't work. There are months that I do not make enough money to support my family (thankfully my wife does) but no one is forced to give me money because of this. But my job is totally depenent on the service I provide and how well I do it. Many things are out of my control in these situation (lesson plans or lack of them, behavior problems in the class,ect), but I must deal with them I would make more money that way but that is not how the system works. I would be more than happy to charge each student I deal with $1 and go with that.I took an applied risk. Just as the waiter/waitress has. If they don't like the applied risk, find a new line of work. Gratuity is a gift. Once you force gratuity, it is no longer gratuity.
That being said, I also would like to approach the fact of the statement of so many things being out of the control of the wait staff. That is totally false. If I get cold food, usually the wait staff is not suprised to hear it. I hear an oh I thought the plate has sat there too long or it felt a little cool as I carried it out. So why did you bring it out, because you thought you could get away with it. I understand that not everything is totally in control of the wait staff, but many things that they would have you believe are out of their control are in their control. Trust me, I come from a long line of people who worked as servers in resturants. I have had the opposite too, recently a waitress handed me my drink and asked me to taste it because she didn't think the bartender placed enough rum in my rum and coke. She was correct and quickly brought me a shot of rum to add to it. She got an exception tip, because she went above and beyond the call of duty.
Posts: 224 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I will say it again. If you do not tip, or leave a smaller tip because you received poor service that is one thing. If you don't tip because you don't believe in tipping, don't eat at restaurants where it is expected. And it is expected. The fact that you don't like that it is expected is not the fault of the wait staff. There are plenty of restaurants that are buffet style or, like Fudruckers, buzz you when your food is ready where you have no server and don't need to tip. If you go into a restaurant where you are going to have a server planning on not tipping "just because" then at least do your server the courtesy of telling them before you order your food. Then the server can concentrate on tables that will be paying them, and get to you when they get to you, if they serve you at all.
I've never had someone tell me ahead of time that they weren't going to tip, even people who probably never tip their server. Why? Because they know that if they tell me in advance, "I'm not going to tip you," then they're going to get crummy service because they aren't paying me. The restaurant doesn't pay me, not really. You have to have a seriously BAD week waiting tables to come it at below minimum wage for the WEEK. The restaurant is only required to make up the difference if the total pay period is below minimum wage, but most servers live day to day, just as many people live paycheck to paycheck. Getting the difference next Tuesday may be better than nothing, but maybe all I've had to eat is peanut butter for the past 4 days.
And if your plate is actually cold when it comes out to the table, then it hasn't been sitting in the right place. A plate that's been sitting under the heat lamps for a long time is usually HOT not cool.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I think it is ridiculous to add a 20% tip automatically to the bill. First of all people know when the take the job that they are receiving a low hourly wage, and that their pay is based on their tips. Restaurants make huge profits with such a write up on food. Why should the consumer pay twice? I tip based on the serve. If my husband and I go to dinner and the waitress only pays attention to my husband, I make a point of grabbing the bill to let the bimbo know where the tip is coming from.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Sep 2006
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It's also been said earlier in this thread by someone else, but I'll reiterate it. If you don't want to pay gratuity and think that restaurants ought to pay their servers what they are worth (which is far more than minimum wage based on the amount of work that a server does) then expect to see food prices increase at restaurants who stop using gratuity to pay their servers.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Well, duh. I think that's the point that people who don't like the tip system have been making -- charge what is needed to pay the emplyees for doing their jobs. And let the tip be something extra for exceptional service.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Wow, Osty. There so much I take exception to in your post that I don't know where to start.
First the idea of applied risk. Either you haven't read anything anyone's said about a social contract and acting contrary to reasonable social expectations, or you've ignored it. Either way, I'm not repeating it here. Scroll back.
Second, don't compare being a substitute teacher to being a server. I've done both for about equal parts of my life (almost two years of each), and they are in no way similar, or have anything close to the same amount of financial risk.
A substitute teacher's pay is not based on quality of service, at all (though it's a testament to you doing your job properly that you think it is, so I'll commend you on a job well done). For every sub who actually does their job and follows the lesson plans, there's another who sits in the room with a newspaper ignoring the lesson plans completely and getting the same pay. If you're registered in a large school district, they'll need people almost every day - if you're not, then you can register in several school districts and accept or decline jobs as you like.
Also, no matter what happens in the classroom to make life more difficult (lack of lesson plans, student behavior, assemblies, fire drills, bomb scares, etc), you still make the same wage. The only "applied risk" a sub has is school cancellation, due to weather for instance.
quote:That being said, I also would like to approach the fact of the statement of so many things being out of the control of the wait staff. That is totally false.
This makes me think more that it wasn't that you didn't read the social contract comments, but ignored them. Because you also seem to be ignoring (actually directly contradicting) the comments from hatrackers who wait tables (and have waited tables) with direct experience telling you otherwise.
Are you calling us all liars, or do you think you somehow know better than people who have actually done the job?
quote:I understand that not everything is totally in control of the wait staff, but many things that they would have you believe are out of their control are in their control. Trust me, I come from a long line of people who worked as servers in resturants
Meaning you've never done the job? I come from a long line of police and military, but that doesn't mean I'm qualified to do either - or to speak intelligently about the day to day aspects of the job.
There are obviously things that are the server's fault. There are just as many things that aren't. If you want, I can give you a list.
quote:I have had the opposite too, recently a waitress handed me my drink and asked me to taste it because she didn't think the bartender placed enough rum in my rum and coke. She was correct and quickly brought me a shot of rum to add to it.
On a somewhat related note, a weak drink is almost invariably not the server's fault. If the server (such as in this case) was at the bar while the bartender poured it, they might catch a low pour. If they enter the order from a computer terminal, they likely won't be.
Strangely enough, a "weak" drink is sometimes not the bartender's fault either. When I worked at Macaroni Grill in NJ (and at Cafe Tu Tu Tango in Atlanta), there were strict recipes (some premade) for drinks that the management held you to closely. A "single" drink had a shot, and a "double" had two shots. Now, most people are used to about a shot and a half in their drinks, or so, making the single taste weak - but when the server explained they'd have to charge extra for a double, the customers got frustrated.
It's a problem of the system, that the staff need to deal with - the amount of times, as a server, I've had to explain the single/double issue (knowing damn well that it was likely losing me tips) was astounding. I had to have the manager go over to tables on several occasions to explain, as well.
In a looser setting, such as the pub I worked at, I could pour whatever I wanted. Normally I kept it to 1.25 ounces per drink, though for regulars who I knew liked more, I gave them more.
At corporate restaurants, there are more restrictions on what servers must and must not do, and can and cannot do. To say that things being out of the control of the waitstaff is "totally false" smacks of ignorance of the job.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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