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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » OSC's review of Harry Potter! (Page 3)

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Author Topic: OSC's review of Harry Potter!
andi330
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But, except in the case of Harry, who is linked to Voldemort by his scar, eye contact is necessary for legilimency to work properly. Unless Voldemort sees them personally it's unlikely he'll glean that information from anyone's mind. Don't forget, Voldemort is now so concerned about Harry's ability to see what he is doing that he is using Occlumency himself.
[Hat]

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jd2cly60
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I've decided to wait out the 'is Snape evil' question. Yes it clearly puts Snape in an irrefutable advantageous situation. On the other hand, Snape has been a red-herring for so long, it wouldn't surprise me if he really is as evil sounding as Rowling writes the events until he says "blocked again and again potter until you learn to close your mind!"

Plus Rowling has said that we learn alot about James past in books six and seven, which is apparently now seven. My guess is there could be more to the Lily James Snape triangle than previously suspected. Snape may have been playing Dumbledore all along or he may have been playing Voldemort all along--it's hard to tell and still somewhat open, though many convincing arguments have been made for Snape's innocence of treachery.

Imo it's no where near as clear as the Ron-Hermione relationship was in previous books.

quote:
MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -

ES: Yes!
MA: Yes!

ES: Like certain shippers we know!

[All laugh]

JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously – Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories.

ES: I know Dumbledore likes to see the good in people but he seems trusting almost to the point of recklessness sometimes.

[Laughter] Yes, I would agree. I would agree.

ES: How can someone so -

JKR: Intelligent -

ES: be so blind with regard to certain things?

JKR: Well, there is information on that to come, in seven. But I would say that I think it has been demonstrated, particularly in books five and six that immense brainpower does not protect you from emotional mistakes and I think Dumbledore really exemplifies that. In fact, I would tend to think that being very, very intelligent might create some problems and it has done for Dumbledore, because his wisdom has isolated him, and I think you can see that in the books, because where is his equal, where is his confidante, where is his partner? He has none of those things. He’s always the one who gives, he’s always the one who has the insight and has the knowledge. So I think that, while I ask the reader to accept that McGonagall is a very worthy second in command, she is not an equal. You have a slightly circuitous answer, but I can't get much closer than that.

Really how do you interpret that 'desperate hope' is it people's desperate hope that Snape is evil (haven't seen/heard too much of that) or people's desperate hope that Snape is really good and now has Voldemort's complete trust (have heard lots and lots of that). Did Dumbledore make an emotional mistake in trusting Snape?

On the other hand, I think it's very clear that Dumbledore is dead dead dead. In exactly the same way that a certain beloved character is dead dead dead halfway through Stephen King's The Stand, it's something that you want so badly to not be true that you go through a long period of disbelief because that's not how stories are supposed to go, heroes don't die, they live to be loved another day.

And I would say it's equally clear that Dumbledore has put a new protection on Harry or all of Hogwarts. After all Dumbledore faced death and chose to die to protect Harry (and Draco and Snape). It's exactly what Lily did that distinguished her death from James' death.

quote:
S: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

JKR: Mmhm.

ES: Why?

JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer, you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There’s your answer, you've just answered your own question, because she could have lived and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I’m not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way, I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice -

ES: And James didn't.

JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry specifically given a clear choice? No. It's a subtle distinction and there's slightly more to it than that but that's most of the answer.

I would agree that it's clear from Dumbledore's character he wasn't begging from mercy, he was either asking to be killed or still slightly delusional from the potion and on seeing Snape was simply asking help in purging himself of the poison, not recognizing a threat.
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Brian J. Hill
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The only thing I am absolutely certain of is that when it comes to Dumbledore's death scene, things aren't as they seem to be. Other than that, I'll just wait it out.

JKR did hint in her interview that there was someone else in Godric's Hollow the night that James and Lily died. My guess is that it was Snape.

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KEGE
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Wow - several things since I last posted.

First, I've argued against Harry/Harry's scar being the Horcrux all along.

BUT IF, ya'll and OSC are right about that then I agree with IdahoEEBoy (great idea, never occured to me) that maybe the complex spell to creat the Horcrux IS performed prior to the murder and THAT would be the only way the scar could be an accidental Horcrux.

AND IF that is the case maybe Harry himself IS the relic of Godric Gryffindor's? James Potter was from a pureblood wizarding family - maybe descended from Gryffindor himself just as Voldemort is a direct descendant of Salazar Slytherin? That would be another explanation of why in Chamber of Secrets that Harry pulls the Gryffindor sword out of the sorting hat in order to defeat the basilisk. Once again Gryffindor fighting Slytherin - which is the most intense of ALL the school rivalries.

Dumbledore tells Harry on page 334 CoS that "'Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry,' said Dumbledore simply." We assumed then that by "true Gryffindor" Dumbledore was referring only to the context of their conversation where Harry tells him that the Sorting Hat was considering putting him in Slytherin house because:

"'The Sorting Hat could see Slytherin's power in me, and it ---'"

Maybe Dumbledore had a double meaning by "true Gryffindor"?

The Sorting Hat is not a relic of Godric Gryffindor but he was the one who put the spell on it to allow it to sort.

SNAPE - I think he's disgustingly mean and horrible but not "Voldemort's man and through and through". There is more to the James/Lily/Snape thing I'm sure. Probably Snape loved Lily which Dumbledore knew and THAT was why when Snape came to him with such remorse over Voldemort killing her that Dumbledore believed his "reformation". The Order only scoff at the idea that (Order p. 616):

"'And Dumbledore believed that?' said Lupin incredulously. " Dumbledore believed that Snape was sorry James was dead? Snape hated James ....'"

Harry then adds that Snape didn't think Lily was worth a damn because she was a mudblood. BUT lots of things changed from the James/Lily/Snape triangle after the scene that Harry views in the pensieve where Snape calls Lily a mudblood and Lily calls James a bully - obviously. One of the them could be Snape's love for Lily which would also explain his willingness to work against Voldemort for the Order. He hates Voldemort for killing Lily and wants him dead.

He has to hide this emotion from Voldemort and as accomplished an occlumens as Snape is - he couldn't keep it from Voldemort if he were in his presence all the time as other Death Eaters are. So he's presumably Voldemort's spy at Hogwarts and has very little physical contact with Voldemort.

Why Voldemort offered to spare Lily's life? For Snape? Did he know Snape's feelings for Lily back then? Probably not because then he'd suspect Snape hating him for Lily's death. So don't know what his motive was at that point.

Really like the distinction between James and Lily's deaths that JRK makes. Thanks for posting that.

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Anna
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I'm sorry, but there's no way Lily's death was the reason Snape worked for the Order. Because just after Lily died Voldemort was reduced to a mere vapour, and the fight was less itense, and I don't think Dumbledore would have believed a Death Eater that changed his mind just after his master's supposed death.
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KEGE
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I'm not sure I understand your reasoning Anna. Could you be more clear?
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TomDavidson
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Anna's saying that if Snape joined Dumbledore after Lily died, he also joined Dumbledore after Voldemort died -- which would have made his conversion seem less sincere.
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KEGE
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Well, we have no information as to at what point Snape supposedly turned spy for the original Order of the Phoenix, but he'd NOT in the group photo from that novel that Mad Eyed Moody shows to Harry in the basement kitchen of Grimmauld Place.

In fact it does seem that it HAD to be after Voldemort's death that Snape joined the Order because the reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape given was that Snape didn't know when he reported what he had overheard of the Trelawney to Dumbledore prophecy that Voldemort would go after the James Potter family. So Snape tells Voldemort the partial part of the prophecy that he overheard - at which point he's still a Death Eater - and Voldemort acts on the info by going after the Potters.

It would seem that THAT is when Snape asks Dumbledore for "forgiveness" and Dumbledore believes that Snape's sorrow about Voldemort killing the Potters is genuine.

I'm not sure how the chain of events could have occured differently unless there is a piece of information yet to be revealed in Book 7.

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sarcasticmuppet
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GoF pensive scene: Snape changed sides "at great personal risk" and turned spy BEFORE Voldemort's fall/Lily's death. What if it happened BEFORE the prophecy?
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KEGE
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If it happened before the prophecy, then why was Dumbledore's evidence of Snape's sincerity based on something that didn't happen until much later? In other words, using the GoF page 590-91 quote from Dumbledore:

"'Several Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk. He is now no more a Death Eater than I am.'"

So then WHAT caused Dumbledore to trust Snape from that mysterious "before Lord Voldemort's downfall" up until the Potters were killed and Snape expressed his remorse that they were killed?

How do we reconcile the GoF quote with HBP page 549 where Dumbledore says:

"'Professor Snape made a terrible mistake. He was still in Lord Voldemort's employ on the night he heard the first half of Professor Trelawney's prophecy. Naturally, he hastened to tell his master what he had heard, for it concerned his master most deeply. But he did not know - he had no possible way of knowing - which boy Voldemort would hunt from then onward, or that the parents he would destroy in his murderous quest were people that Professor Snape knew, that they were your mother and father --'......

'..... I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned --'"

The only way to reconcile the two remarks is that there is a period of time between Snape's reporting the prophecy to Voldemort and the Potter's murder during which Voldemort thought it through and decided on Harry. Snape must have returned to the order KNOWING that Voldemort was set on the Potter family and perhaps hoping to prevent it.

If that is the case, what would explain Snape's report of the prophecy to Voldemort being the greatest regret of his life? Snape caring so deeply about James or baby Harry? Lily is the only one left in the family that Snape could care about having had a part in her death.

Perhaps Snape is the other person present at Godric Hollow on the fateful night.

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sarcasticmuppet
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I was mostly being facetious, but I really think there has to be something else to Snape's redemption other than his 'greatest regret' shpeal.

I also think that book six set up a whole other ball game in terms of shipping. Lily, the potions master, and all. Not saying that I particularly like it, I'm just starting to think that's how it's gonna play out.

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KEGE
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Well, sarcasticmuppet (which btw love the image your name evokes), I'm a bit too serious about my HP and missing the facetiousness of your comment but will now read everything you write with respect to your name and try to get it. [Smile]

You are right about it being weird that Lily was such a good potions student when you think of her being in class with Snape the HBP potion prodigy. I'm sure there is much more to that too.

Once again being dense though what does "whole other ball game in terms of shipping" mean????

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sarcasticmuppet
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"shipping" is a term used to descripe "relationshipping" or playing the dating game at Hogwarts. For example, a LOT of people (including me, but only slightly) considered themselves Harry/Hermione 'shippers', that is, they foresaw Harry and Hermione ending up together. Many were sorely dissapointed at HBP.

(Aside: I say I was only a slight H/H shipper because unlike some people, I read the clues from GoF and OotP that pointed squarely at Ron/Hermione. I figured that was the direction Jo was gonna take it, and if I didn't like it then I could shove off. I got over it. Some people didn't. [Smile] )

I say a 'whole other ball game in terms of shipping' because before HBP, only a few crazies set out the Lily/Snape ships. Now their theories will have more ammunition.

thanks for the complement, I love my handle quite a bit. And don't worry about the subtext of my posts--usually I'm actually trying to be serious. I take HP seriously as well, it's only when a theory has been battled for the upteenth time (to me, at least [Smile] ) do I pull out the sarcasm and...um...facet.

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Anna
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Thanks Tom, that was clearer when you said it. [Smile]
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Paco_The_Insane
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i had ron and hermione shipped from the begining, because if harry and hermione were shippers, ron would become a hermit, and live in a shack in the woods. Maybe not, but he would be alone. Logically, you can see since she is the second closest girl to harry, she would be the obvious alternative. Just my opinion.

I've always been a shipper but never knew what to call it. Thanks SM!

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sarcasticmuppet
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*takes full credit for the vocabulary invented by dozens of HP sites before I'd ever arrived onto the scene* [Wink]
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TomDavidson
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Shipping predates Harry Potter by quite a bit.
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sarcasticmuppet
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I'd thought so, but I wasn't quite sure. [Smile]
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Leaf
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I don't have the proof and quotes to back this up... It's purely opinion (p.s. - gg KEGE) but it seems really unlikely that you can just stick part of your soul in someone else, where they already have their own soul. It's like that bugs that just goes and lays it's eggs in another living bugs body, and lets it live till the eggs hatch and eat that bug.
I don't think you can just stick your soul any old place you like. Maybe into a snake is different because its not a person. See? THat's just my $.02 though, so there ya go.

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neo-dragon
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I finished the book yesterday and there's so much going through my mind that I don't know what to say. However, if there's one thing that I'm certain about it is that Snape is NOT evil. The whole thing was planned to make him appear that way. In addition to all the other evidence that shows this, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the fact that Harry was told that Snape and Dumbledore had a big fight about Snape not wanting to do something, and Dumbledore insisting... Sounds to me like Dumbledore told Snape to kill him. I'm a bit more iffy on whether or not Dumbledore is truly dead. I'm inclined to say yes, but part of me suspects that he faked it... Probably not. It's just a theory. If he is alive though, I don't believe that it has anything to do with creating his own Horcrux. Even ignoring the fact that as far as we know that would require him to have committed murder, he made it very clear that dividing one's soul is unnatural, and essentially unholy.

Anyway, time to play Devil's advocate and assume for a moment that Snape really did betray and murder Dumbledore. Some people have a problem with the fact that Dumbledore apparently pleaded for his life. However, isn't it possible that he was really pleading for Snape's sake. He may not have been afraid to die, but I could see him begging Snape not to sell his soul and turn to the Dark Side, so to speak. Maybe it wasn't so much, "Don't do this to me" pleading, as it was, "Don't do this to yourself" pleading. But as I said, I don't believe that Snape has turned. It's just food for thought.

Finally, I don't know if anyone has discussed the identity of R.A.B. (the guy who took the real Horcrux), but a friend of mine pointed out that it could be Sirius's brother, Regulus Black. According to Sirius he was a Death Eater, but he tried to back out when he realized how evil Voldemort was, and Voldemort therefore had him killed. So, it's very possible that Regulus somehow found out about the Horcruxes, decided to turn against Voldemort, and as R.A.B.'s note indicates, he knew that he would inevitably be killed for it. What's more, in "Order of the Phoenix" when Harry and the gang were cleaning the Black house, there's mention of a locket which no one could open being among the other heirlooms...

[ September 12, 2005, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: neo-dragon ]

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Leaf
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Uhmm.... yeah. Hi. [Wave] Thanks for posting, but right after the book was released and everyone read it in like 2 days, these topics (R.A.B. and snape) were definately discussed in full. Refer to that thread maybe (its on the other side... I'm sure you'll find it.) And you might enjoy reading that. [Smile]

-leaf

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neo-dragon
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I figured as much, but those of us who didn't rush to read the book as soon as it came out have a right to give our 2 cents too. And I think it's understandable that people won't necessarily want to read through 120+ posts just to avoid repeating ideas. At least I didn't go and start a redundant new thread about it.
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Leaf
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Haha... good job then. Kudos..

I was just saying.... you know. Not being a jerk or anything (not TRYING to anyways..)
-leaf

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sarcasticmuppet
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I found this LJ argument concerning Snape. Pretty good points: here
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hiro1000
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I hope Harry commits suicide with all the teenage pressure. LOL that would be funny.

But still Even with a crappy ending. JKR is rich as hell. Who cares? She still has the movies. She going to be loaded.

I hope the Ender Movie will make sh'' load of money. to continue the series.

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LadyDove
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I haven't read all the theories, so I hope I'm not repeating anything, but I've always thought that the most difficult thing that Harry had to overcome was his hatred of Snape.

I can see Rowling sparing Harry the killing of Voldemort for two reasons:

1)You have to really have the ability to want to hurt someone to use a killing curse and Harry was depressed by the idea of being forced to kill Voldemort. He felt killing would make him tainted, not only in his own eyes, but in the eyes of his friends. (Though I can see him being willing to kill Snape.)

2) Dumbledore said that killing would irreparably hurt Draco. I can't see Rowling allowing the spiritual damage that was spared Draco, be visited on Harry.

Predictions:
*Someone other than Harry is going to be immediately responsible for Voldemort's death.
*Harry will forgive Snape
*Snape will die

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sarcasticmuppet
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I think he's gotten over reason #1 in HBP. I almost think that Voldemort is technically not alive any more--Harry just needs to dispose of the four horcruxes outside of V's body and the one horcrux within it.
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jeniwren
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I agree, sm. I think someone else killing Voldemort would be a serious cheat on par with "and then Harry woke up and realized it was all a dream. Except the Dursleys."

My predictions:

* We will discover that Snape is not evil, that he did it all in Dumbledore's best interests. He will do something stunningly heroic in front of Harry, proving that he was good all along. Harry will suddenly adjust all his hatred and regret his prejudice intensely. Once Voldemort is dead, the wizarding world will kill Snape in retribution, over Harry's protests.

* Wormtail will defy Voldemort and save Harry's life, probably at the cost of his own. (waitaminute...did that already happen? I can't find my copy of GoF...it's packed away...)

* Harry will be maimed but not killed, and he will kill Voldemort.

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LadyDove
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sm, if anything, I think that the gap between his hatred of Snape vs. his hatred for Voldemort has increased. Harry now blames Snape as much as he blames Voldemort for his parent's death and Harry directly blames Snape for killing Dumbledore.

jeniwren, I agree about Wormtail. I think that scenario was set-up in GoF.

Regarding Voldemort's death; I've never looked at the relationship between Harry and Voldemort as the centerpiece of the book, so having Harry be a bit player in Voldemort's death wouldn't be let-down to me.

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EndertheJedi
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I have not decided whetther snape is evil IMO or not but I am willing to wait till seven to be sure., there is still a lot of evidence to support both sides. but I definitely think that Hrry will Kill Voldemort because of the prophecy. I dont think he will kill him in an expected way thoughI.E. maybe the alck opf horcruxes will cause voldy to die or amy be Harry will some how trick him into causing his own death.
one of the thing s i have always believed about the snaoe being evil debate is that it is very possible that snape himself di not know which sode hes on the whole time. think about his character hates Harry and enjoys the dark arts but he also seems to want dumbledore to trust and respect him and if you noticee d in HBP he spoke to many of the death eatersd especially wurmtail with barely vailed contempt .it is possible that snape was at a morale dimena in his life and the unbreakable vow he amde to kill dumbledore was the last strasw that pushedd him over to whatever side hes on now .

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neo-dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by LadyDove:

I can see Rowling sparing Harry the killing of Voldemort for two reasons:

1)You have to really have the ability to want to hurt someone to use a killing curse and Harry was depressed by the idea of being forced to kill Voldemort. He felt killing would make him tainted, not only in his own eyes, but in the eyes of his friends. (Though I can see him being willing to kill Snape.)

2) Dumbledore said that killing would irreparably hurt Draco. I can't see Rowling allowing the spiritual damage that was spared Draco, be visited on Harry.

Predictions:
*Someone other than Harry is going to be immediately responsible for Voldemort's death.
*Harry will forgive Snape
*Snape will die [/QB]

I think that Harry will kill Voldemort (though probably with help). I mean, the guy murdered Harry's parents and is pretty much responsible for every bad thing that has happened in his life. I can see Harry mustering up the will to kill him. If not for revenge, than in order to protect others. As for the spiritual damage, Harry killing Voldemort and Draco killing Dumbledore are two very different things. Dumbledore was innocent and defenseless. Draco was threatening to murder him in cold blood. Voldemort, however, shouldn't even be alive in the first place, and is evil beyond the point od redemption. Letting him live means that more people will die by his hand in the future. I don't think that even the Ministry is stupid enough to believe that they can hold him in Azkaban.

With regards to Wormtail betraying Voldemort, all I have to say is, hasn't anyone noticed the similarities between Wormtail, and Wormtongue from The Lord of the Rings? Given that, I think that his eventual betrayal of his master is almost as high on my list of certainties as Snape being good. I mean, Wormtail isn't really evil, he's just terrified of Voldemort. But Peter Pettigrew was in Gryffindor, wasn't he? So there most be some courage and loyalty to his old friends in there somewhere. I think it'll emerge in the end.

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LadyDove
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quote:
Dumbledore was innocent and defenseless. Draco was threatening to murder him in cold blood.
But Draco was being blackmailed into murdering Dumbledore, so I don't think the circumstances are that different.
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0range7Penguin
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I have some interesting theories that I am suprised no one has thought of yet so im going to go ahead and put them out their and see what you guys think.

1. Everyone likes to say that it was lily's love for Harry that saved him. Well how? How did her love save Harri. What if she made Harry the Horocrux in hopes that it would stop Voldemorth from killing Harry, which it did. Either she somehow made it so that her own death did it or she took the casted of part of Voldemoth's soul from the killing of her husband and cast it into Harry.

2. As to Voldemorth Possesing Harry we can take a page from OSC's books. What if like Ender and EnderPeter Harry and Voldemorth both have peices of Voldemoths soul. WHat if after splitting himself seven times the part of his soul thats in his physical body doesnt have to be the dominant one. What if Voldemorth decided to move his coniousness to Harry and make that the dominant part of his soul, kind off like when Ender's Auia (dont know if I spelled that right) went into EnderPeter. THats why Voldemorth said if you want to kill me you have to kill Harry, not in those words, but that was the jist.

3. We found out with the Horocruxes that both murder and death can envoke powerfull magic. What if Sirius had to kill Dumbledore as a kind of sacrifice for a spell of untold power. What if Sirius, caring for Dumbledore, did not want to make the sacrifice and that is why they were arguing in the woods and also why Dumbledore pleaded with him. It wasnt to not kill dumbledore but to sacrifice him. As to what that spell is we can only guess. Some nuclear explosion spell that turns Hogwarts into ground zero if voldemorth shows up perhaps? [Big Grin]

Those are my thoughts.

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sarcasticmuppet
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1 sounds highly unlikely. The only way to make a horcrux is to kill someone yourself. Not to say Lily couldn't have killed anyone, though...

2 sounds a bit more likely, but OotP showed that Voldemort possessing Harry causes both of them significant pain, because V can't deal with the love Harry has. You're on the right track, I think. [Smile]

3 sounds even more plausable, but it sounds too...simple, I guess. If this were really the case Dumbledore might have been more careful for all his talk of him being more expendable than Harry. This is assuming that Snape (and no one else) would have to kill Dumbledore in order for this spell to take effect.

#3 made me think of something: what if Snape (for good/evil/whatever), made a horcrux after killing Dumbledore? I'm almost completely convinced that Harry will kill (good/evil/whatever) Snape in a fit of vengeful rage before his whole story is revealed, and this might possibly prevent that. If this happens, I would probably lean more toward Snape being evil, or at least just turned a deaf ear to anything Dumbly ever taught him.

Theories lead to more different theories, and more fun guessing games. Keep it up. [Smile]

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neo-dragon
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Well, I don't think that Harry will kill Snape. I'm totally convinced that Snape is good, and I don't think that Rowling would have Harry kill anyone who didn't deserve it, even if he thought they did. He'll probably try to kill Snape the next time he sees him, but someone (not Snape, since he'd never believe him) will step in and tell him the truth.

Anyway, let's try running with the idea of Lily making a Horcrux. If she did, maybe it was to hold a piece of her own soul, not Voldemort's. Maybe murder is the evil method of making a Horcrux. What if through love and sacrifice Lily was able to store a part of her own soul in Harry when she died, and that's what's always been protecting him? How many times have people remarked that Harry has his mother's eyes? And don't they say that eyes are a window into the soul? I'm just throwing this idea out there as food for thought, though. I don't think it's all that likely. I don't know why Lily would even know about Horcruxes.

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andi330
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Much as I would love the idea that part of Lily's soul survived and she is therefore not dead, one thing Rowling has stated ad nauseum to her fans in numerous interviews is that James and Lily Potter are dead, dead, dead.

Unfortunately, once people are dead (Voldemort never was of course) they cannot come back to life.

It's a shame, I wish Harry could have his mother back.

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0range7Penguin
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Maybe Harry will die and when he goes to heaven. His mother, father, uncle, dumbledore, etc will be there waiting for him.


Wow Harry is like walking death to everyone he cares about. Im suprised Ron and Hermoine arent dead yet. Not for a lack of trying...

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Rose the ____
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quote:
Originally posted by Zarex:
We know that voldemort has more than one horcrux. If I knew that there was only one person in the world capable of killing me, but to kill him I would have to die, I might be a bit nervous. But if I had a few extra lives handy, I'd kill them in a heart beat.

So he is sacrificing one horcrux, in order to ensure the survival of the others, and more importantly; himself.

really? in a heartbeat? Mr. Zarex, are you in the habit of committing cold blooded murders? [Evil]
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Irregardless
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It's a long shot, but I'd like to see Neville kill Voldemort.
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rivka
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Rose, if he has a few horcruxes sitting around, do you need to ask the question?

And Irregardless, your SN makes me want to claw my own eyes out. But welcome to Hatrack regardless. [Big Grin]

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jeniwren
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Irregardless, that would be the only way I could live with Harry not doing it. If Neville does it, I won't feel like it's a cheat.

The process of making a horcrux is considered worse than the use of Avada Kedavera. It's so awful and morally heinous that it's unspeakable to describe how it's done, even in books in the Restricted Section of the Library. It is the darkest of the Dark Arts. I would be surprised if Lily Potter had known the concept of horcruxes even existed, let alone how to do it, let alone actually do it to her own child. Dumbledore has repeatedly said that the magic that saved Harry's life was one of the most ancient and powerful in existance, and that it was of a nature utterly foreign to Voldemort. Love. I don't think that is a trite sentiment. Rowling is a mother, and was when she first conceived Harry Potter's story. She knows the true, real life magic of a mother's love for her child, and I believe that is what she draws on to describe how Harry's life was saved. The birth of my firstborn was easily the most amazing moment of my life. Nothing compares. In Harry's world, I'd be a Muggle. Imagine then, that in a world of wizards, the magic of bonded love is powerful enough for muggles to feel it.

It makes total sense to me that this would be powerful enough to thwart the Killing Curse. I think it must be potentially the greatest, strongest magic possible. And that this alone saved Harry's life.

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Dr Strangelove
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Regardless of how you may feel on the issue, and irregardless of any other source, I trust to Merriam - Webster when I say irregardless is a word. And sorry for derailing the post, please go on discussing HP. I quite enjoy it.
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Irregardless
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove:
Regardless of how you may feel on the issue, and irregardless of any other source, I trust to Merriam - Webster when I say irregardless is a word. And sorry for derailing the post, please go on discussing HP. I quite enjoy it.

How about this? :-)
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Dr Strangelove
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Firstly, this

And lastly ...

mwahaha

The End.

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