posted
The sunni and the shiia have been in a state of feud since the british creation of afghanistan. This caused a minor party, the sunni to come to power over the larger shiia populace, this also occured when the british left iran, they put the minorities in charge so as to govern them more easily, this backfired causeing the feud we all know today.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
no my friend but you are wrong, that is not the feud we think of today, there was an ancient feud, but it was buried until the britsh caused the opening of an old wound.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
After muhhamed died, ali his cousin was killed by Sunnis, but after many years of retributionary warfare, that feud was buried. It is a feud dead until the british reopened it.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rasputin, you DO realize you've done the equivalent of proving that someone's Catholic by asking them to list the seven deadly sins and describe the Spanish Inquisition, right? Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe it is "al-Haij", I could be wrong---I will google your answer
Arabic Ihram, sacred state into which a Muslim must enter in order to perform the hajj (major pilgrimage) or the 'umrah (minor pilgrimage). At the beginning of a pilgrimage, the Muslim stops at a designated station to perform certain ritual cleansing ceremonies; each male shaves his head, cuts his nails, and trims his beard before donning a white, seamless, two-piece garment.
posted
but he is known as an ihram, a man purified, he cannot kill, or have sex, or harm plants when he is a ihram
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
hmmmm, we need a ruling from a real muslim. I know that after you pilgrimmage you can add something with "Haij" to your name. The definition of ihram says nothing llike that.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am a real muslim, but if u wish to argue in length let us get on aim, i cannot stay on hatrack indefinitely
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
Invite yourself into the AIM chatroom "hatrack chat"
I think you are either Anastasia back for a rematch or someone else who is not Muslim, of course of course I could be wrong.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Add yourself to your buddy list. right click on your name. pick "sent chat invitation". in the screen that pops up when you do that, type in "Hatrack Chat" for the chatroom.
posted
Seems interesting that you don't know how to get into Hatrack Chat when you've been there before tonight, IR.
Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you have completed a Hajj, you are a Hajji Mabroor ("accepted"). Ihram is the state of INTENTION to perform the Hajj, similar to the state of grace protecting someone who's undertaken a geas in Western myth; when someone announces his intention to complete the pilgrimage, he enters Ihram.
Ihram requires certain rituals and maintenance -- including chastity, grooming, special garments (called, not coincidentally, ihrams), and the like. If someone falls from ihram before completing the promised Hajj (there are multiple -- three, IIRC -- varities, each of which have different requirements) by falling from these standards, the pilgrimage is invalid and the supplicant must actually atone (in "khaffarah") for screwing it up. For this reason, many modern pilgrims cheat (IMO) by not officially "donning Ihram" until they're actually close to Mecca -- although not IN Mecca, because that would be cheating; there's actually an official BOUNDARY (called Miqat) that marks the nearest point where people have to don ihram.
The "titles" given to people who complete the different types of Hajj vary with the type of Hajj completed (including "Mutamatti," "Qiran," and some other ones I don't remember), but all those who successfully complete the Hajj are "Hajji Mabroor."
Calling someone "El Hajj" is, if I remember rightly, pretty much a black American corruption of the original, common to the Nation of Islam and the like.
posted
Thanks for the clairfication, Tom. I appreciate it. So Irish came into HR chat for two minutes, said he was mad then split. Then he sent me a two-word IM I couldn't read---"until later"? and bailed in 30 seconds.
I'm wash my hands of the whole matter. Anyone who cares can talk to Irish and make up their own minds. Tom, I hereby declare you standard bearer against the infidels. (joke) Posts: 53 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tom, I know you used to be Baha'i, and that that faith branched off from Islam (or "mainstream" Islam). I also seem to recall you recently claiming to be a former Muslim. Are you referring to the same religion, or was that two separate periods in your life? I always thought that Baha'i was separate.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Baha'is ARE separate, although they're Muslim -- as far as I now regard them -- in the same way that Mormons are Christian. Back when I was researching the Faith, though, I did a fair bit of research into Islam in general, and still have a fair number of Muslim (practicing and non-) friends.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok gang. I wrote personally to Irish yesterday reminding him to be civilized. Now I'm reminding the rest of you. I think this very personal challenge has gone on long enough. Believe him or don't but drop it. You won't prove anything either way.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Cool. Do they consider themselves to be Muslim in the same way Mormons consider themselves Christians? Would mainstream Muslims consider them to be?
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well kacard whoever you are, thank you, it gets very ammoying when people make a huge deal out of not beieving your religion, I get a lot of it at home too.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
KACard is Kristine Card, the wife of Orson Scott Card. I think she's handling this quite well personally, either way, I would suggest treating her with plenty of respect, she's earned it.
posted
IrishRage just IM'd me. I agreed to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like Mrs. Card says, I didn't couldn't really prove anything either way. And quizzing him like I did was rude. I hate being rude .
Posts: 53 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Do they consider themselves to be Muslim in the same way Mormons consider themselves Christians? Would mainstream Muslims consider them to be?"
It depends. Baha'is consider themselves to be another step along the Muslim doctrine of progressive revelation. In other words, they believe Islam to be "true" -- as is Christianity -- but they're as far "advanced" beyond Muslims as Muslims consider themselves beyond Christians (and Christians consider themselves beyond Jews). That said, many of the prohibitions and almost all the (few) rituals of the Faith are Muslim in origin, if heavily modified, and the Faith's attitude towards the written words of the prophet is very Muslim in tone. As you might expect, American Baha'is are far more liberal and less "Islamic" than Persian-region Baha'is, although there's been a new wave of Baha'i fundamentalism -- which I find absolutely contradictory to its message -- in the last three decades or so that has begun to change the tone of the religion here in the States.
A Baha'i, if asked, will probably call himself a Baha'i -- but may well be mildly surprised if a Muslim or Christian were to declare that the Faith is neither Muslim NOR Christian, in the same way that Mormons are affronted by the same charge (for the exact same reasons). Unsurprisingly, the Shia LOATHE the Baha'i Faith, and consider it one of the lowest forms of Sunni-influenced apostacy; the Faith is illegal in many strongly Shia areas, and its practice is still punishable by death in Iran and Syria.
(Interestingly, the Faith has its own kind of Sunni/Shia split -- much like the Mormons. It's a tempest in a teapot thing, but it's led to a lot of the current fundamentalist tone.)
Oddly, the American branch of the Baha'i Faith probably most closely resembles a weird, Persian-influenced form of Quakerism. The more Persian you get, the more it looks like liberal Islam.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
@ Tom's analogy -- very clever.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
