There are few things that are more offensive to me than women talking about how "men are dogs" but then turn to the male friend in the room and say "I don't mean you." Do you mean it, or not? It seems like the only reason they think all men are dogs is because they had the extreme misfortune to pair up with dog after dog, while leaving out the "good guy" as a friend.
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Because, unfortunately, many women think bad or dumb guys are cool, and then are completely shocked when they get mistreated.
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posted
It's a well-known fact that "nice" men often wind up being cast as the best friend -- an undateable but reliable guy who'll tag along and never be critical. It's remarkably safe for the woman, at least until the guy gets all unhealthy and passive-aggressive about it.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I think there's a element of attraction to "bad" guys, but I think alot of it also stems from most guys who complain about being a "good" guy and not getting women because of it lack confidence. I've known plenty of respectful guys who have no problem getting women. The thing is, their respect comes out of their confidence and is not covering up for it's lack. Of course, there's also the issue of who you're trying to get. There are a significant number of women out there who are attracted to guys who mistreat them.
Olivetta, I think you may have missed the part where I put in a disclaimer about respecting housew...I mean stay at home wives (or husbands) who choose to stay at home. Even if I didn't understand (and in the cases of kids wholeheartedly endorse) this choice, it would still not be my place to criticize another person's freely made choice. The problem is that there are still so many women who think that this role is the only choice that they can have. I was specifically talking about them.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
There was a time in my life that I was not interested in dating anybody, so I stopped trying to be "nice". I was obnoxious, and somewhat of a jerk, because I just didn't care what anybody thought.
Much to my surprise, women were *much* more attracted to me during this period than when I was trying to attract women. The inappropriate lesson that I leared was "women like jerks". Learning this "lesson" did not help me as a person. But I still think there is some truth to it.
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posted
This is only somewhat related, but will someone please explain the whole bumbling fat guy/hot skinny wife combo that seems to show up so often in sitcoms?
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posted
Tom I think the "nice" "best friend" label gets attached to women as well. Generally the non-bitchy ones end up with the "nice-best friend" label while the "nice" guys tend to go for the prima-donna princess-bitch variety.
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Well, I see guys who walk around drooling after the princess girls, but at least they were smart enough to actually date and marry the nice and smart ones.
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posted
I never get that... King of Queens is such an annoying show, but slowly I'm learning to stop watching these irratating shows. Because if I complain about it, especially to a certain person she will say, "Don't watch them." And so will another certain person. But sadly, I am an idiot and a cultural critic. But it's really just frustrating. The Help, for instance is just... trashy and horrible. I wish these people would STOP making these sort of shows...
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posted
As far as girls liking jerks: I think we're attracted mostly to confidence. Everybody is attracted to confidence. And there's a very fine line between being confident and self-assured and being horribly arrogant. My therapist and I had very long discussions on this subject.
Aside from that, a lot of women learn early on that "nice guys" turn into puppy-dog barnacles that attatch themselves to your ankle and don't let go.
I suspect it's probably the same with men liking bitchy girls.
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posted
Yeah, I really should make it a point to stop prying onto their ankles like that, I'm sure I get pretty heavy after awhile.
Posts: 1595 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
"Bitch" means female dog! That always makes me laugh!!!
Speaking of Bitch, why are so many women on television so BITCHY and obnoxious? How is that interesting? Gah. I got to stop spending so much time complaining about television... There are other things I could do like read Seduced by Moonlight or play video games.
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Grin, and being that I'm into showing dogs, one of the nicest complements I'm getting on one of them is.
"Man that bitch can move!"
Which she can. She flys at a trot around the ring at a speed when most dogs are at a gallop. She gets to set the pace of trotting that Jake has to keep up with when they are exercising.
posted
I mean, you don't call female cats bitches, and you can communicate with people about the specific gender of your cat without refering it as a bitch. What's the point?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I think it is like cows in a way. Cows are one of the few that we commonly call the entire species by the female gender rather than the male. Even though technically you've got cows, bulls and steers that all belong to the Bovine species.
In a similar way dogs and bitches are both members of the Canine species but we commonly call them both "dogs".
But the AKC went with technically correct definition back a century ago when they started and that is why it hasn't changed. In the dog breeding community it is very common to use the terms only gender specifically.
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dkw -- that is *PERFECT* That exactly expalains what I was talking about in my life. Thank you.
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posted
It's just unnecessary insulting to the dog and it grates on the ears. I just don't see the purpose.
JB, I never knew that was specific to female cats. Interesting. Thanks. I know it's a general term for mother, though.
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posted
I thought they called female cats queens... they did it in the book I read called You and Your Cat. Heifer is another funny word. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Stud dog means something very specific kind of similar to what Stud means in horses.
If you have a horse standing "at stud" or a "stud dog" it generally means something more specific then that they are unneutered (kwisni correct me if I'm wrong about horses.) Any unneutered dog can father a litter.
When a dog is a "Stud dog" it generally means that the owners feel the animal is a quality enough animal that it can contribute significantly to the breed. Generally the dog will have been shown extensively and done a significant amount of winning. (though "extensive" and "significant" are deliberately relative terms since it is a subjective opinion) And the owner is willing to have it bred to bitches outside their own kennels... for a fee.
If the "stud dog" is of high enough quality he can drastically influence the breed for good. Though sometimes a dog simply becomes popular with breeders overlooking his bad traits. And then the breed suffers as a result. The success of a "stud dog" is dependent on the quality of the genes he passes on, as well as the quality of the bitches he is bred to and how popular he becomes so that people want to use him with their bitches to begin with.
The "stud fees" vary by how much the dog has won, breed popularity etc. Right now I have a friend with a doberman that has a stud fee of $10,000 per female bred. In cardigan corgis the stud fee would on the highest end likely be around 2K and often not even that much but instead you ask for a stud fee puppy if you like the breeding.
posted
I can't see that it is insulting to the animal, when the word is being used in its original context. Most people these days have their pets spayed or neutered a practice which I strongly support.
However until you see an un-neutered female reigning supreme in her pack and keeping the males in line you can't possibly fully understand why the word "bitch" got applied to humans with the connotation it did.
posted
Ther's also the issue of who and why you're selecting someone.
"Oh, why doesn't she see how kind and smart and sensitive I am? She just doesn't like nice guys."
"Hey, dude why are you interested in her?"
"Are you kidding? She's smoking hot!"
It's been my experience that smart, funny, intelligent, sensitive, and above all confident, girls don't like being treated like crap. They want a nice gy who is also secure in himself. It's just that there are so few of these girls out there.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I'll agree to some of the nice guy analysis to an extent. However, I think there's an unwarranted assumption that men who are nice are doing it to get with the woman romantically, which is pretty insulting in and of itself. Also, most people wouldn't recognize true confidence if it bit them in the ass.
posted
Dag, To follow up on that, I guy I knew in college used to complain about how none of the girls he dated were worthy of him. He thought that he was so great and confident and that all the girls he dated were weak. He did eventually date a girl that I personally thought was super-kickass and she blew him right out of the water. He tried to subtly control her the way that he did all of his other weaker girlfirends and she wasn't having it. It wasn't long before he was running scared.
Since I never really liked that guy, I thought this was hilarious.
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posted
Pfft. You _say_ you want a confident, independent woman, but you don't really know what to do with one when you find her. Posts: 9057 | Registered: Nov 2000
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Kat, true confidence doesn't involve trying to control others, or doing anything to advertise how great you are. It's being yourself, and only changing for other people when that change comes from a genuine desire to please the other person, not from a desire to gain something for yourself by pleasing the other person. It's assuming others will take you at face value and taking others that way. It's knowing who you are, and being willing to confront those portions of who you are that need bettering. It's knowing what you're good at, but being willing to do things you're not good at.
In short, it's nothing anyone can really notice in a bar.
Dagonee Edit to fix spelling (damn homonyms) and wording, but not before Kat quoted it.
quote:Kat, true confidence doesn't involve trying to control others, or doing anything to advertise how great you are. It's being yourself, and only changing for other people when that change comes from a genuine desire to please the other person, not from a desire to gain something for yourself by pleasing the other person. It's assuming others will take you at face value and taking others that way. It's knowing who you are, and being willing to confront those portions of who you are that need bettering. It's knowing what your good at, but being willing to things your not good at.
In short, it's nothing anyone can really notice in a bar.
Oh, I also love this. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Check out Olivia Goldsmith's book "Bad Boys." A woman complains to her best bud about her latest jerk boyfriend. Best bud complains about being a nice guy, and asks her to teach him how to be a jerk so he can get dates. She does, and writes about it on the side.
Not what I'd consider a great book, but it did have some excellent insights on the attractions. At one point some women are talking among themselves and asking "Why do we like bad boys, anyway?" and one of them answers in a chillingly brusque, honest manner. I don't have it in front of me, but it's something like, "Because we know there's no real risk of commitment, because we know in our hearts that we're the only ones that can tame this wild panther, because they're the strongest and fiercest around so our bodies know they'll be good breeding stock, because they make the other women envious, and because it's an ego-boost to know that we can attract this impossible-to-control man."
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
To again chime in support of Dag, the psych research I'm running right now is centered around distinguishing between immature self-esteem and a more mature form of self-acceptance. In the first form, people deceive themselves as to how powerful (or smart or whatever) they are. They try to cover up their weaknesses instead of acknowledging them. It's very important that they always feel themselves to be the most powerful, so they tend to dismiss or feel threatened by other powerful people and to enjoy being around weaker people.
In the other form, people demonstrate a devotion and acceptance of the reality of situations. They acknowledge that they have weaknesses. They also tend to appreciate the company of people that are themselves strong. Thus, they don't need to dominate other people or to be the best.
An attitude that I've been pushing a lot comes out of this confidence. That is, confident people don't need others to agree with them to respect or like them. Instead, they tend to focus on whether the way people go about things is worthy of respect.
In terms of a relationship, you are confident when you appreciate another person for who they are and delight in both your similarities and your differences. You are not confident when you focus entirely on what you are getting out of the other person.
The best part is, I've got actual scientific research to back up these claims. Go Science!
edit: And I want to emphasize what Dag said about most people not knowing real confidence if it came up and bit them on the butt. I totally agree.
posted
You know the line between confidence and arrogance is one I struggle with myself. I know I come across as arrogant to people but I genuinely don't mean to. I don't think I'm actually more arrogant than anyone else. But you will rarely catch visibly in moments of doubt unless you know the deepest darkest me that not many people see. I second guess myself but I'm not afraid of making decisions either.
posted
Have faith in your abilities, but don't brag about them. Do what you can and work to stretch your abilities, but don't assume you can handle everything. Remember that no matter how good you are, you can still screw up. Respect the abilities of others. Don't act threatened if your abilities are questioned.
For some reason when I think of "confidence" I think of "quiet." An arrogant person makes sure you know what he or she can do. A confident person doesn't need to.
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