posted
Canada exists, I've been there. While I've met a nice young lady who says she's from Poland, there's no proof it actually exists.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
[I wrote this back in the middle of the last page. You know me though, got distracted and now here it is, late.]
Sara and Belle, I don't see this so much as running away from a fight, or fleeing from persecution. I understand the concept of fighting for what you believe in, Belle. The Civil Rights movement, for example was a good thing. Sara, I see people who immigrate to America as people who were persecuted in their countries (fearing death) or people who were unable to support themselves in their country. Neither of these apply to me.
For me, it's like having a family member who is the head of the KKK, who's also been convicted of rape and murder. And this family member lives in my house and sits on my front porch and spews this information/point of view with every passerby.
Personally, I'm ashamed of this country and I certainly don't want to be associated with it. Why in the world would I care enough to fight with 51% of the people? I have no ties to this country. Other than the fact that I was born here. I mean, my family has been in this country since the 1500s, but there is no sense of history or community or even family in my family. There's no family land, or business, or even region.
So what does it matter where I live? I think the most important thing is how I live and with whom I associate myself. Having grown up amid some very Italian pockets of America, I understand the concept of what family history, family pride, family religion, family land, family business, etc. all look and feel like. Unfortunately, for many northern wasps, there is no sense of that passion. It actually reminds me of the movies Fool's Rush In and My Big, Fat, Greek Wedding. Do you remember the white families in those? That's my family.
And "my" country has never done anything I'm terribly proud of, has on several occasions done something that have mortified me. A few times it has done something I've found to be morally repugnant and sadly, on more than one occasion it has done something I consider to be outright illegal. And the leaders have been doing immoral, if not illegal, things from the get go.
Exactly what kind of allegiance am I supposed to have? It's not the land, it's not a religion, it's not a familial connection. It's an ideal. And the ideal seems to have left the place. I can find the ideal somewhere else. Unlike Republicans, I don't want to force people to live like I do. They can do whatever they like as long as they leave me alone. However, doing what they are doing in my name isn't leaving me alone. It's dragging my name through the mud and putting me in the middle of and threatening the security of my family.
Belle, would you still want to live in this country if the majority enacted legislation that made Islam the National Religion and afforded you no protections because you were Christian? And that 51% of the country was fervently in favor of it? And was telling the entire world that the mandate of the US was clear and Islam was the one true religion and that they would continue some holy war in your name?
Maybe you would, because you seem passionate about your religion, but I don't have anything that moves me that much. For me, it's much more like watching a curling tournament. If I happen to see one while flipping around, I'll watch with interest, but if it breaks out into a bloody brawl, I won't go on a vendetta, I'll just change the channel, because, I haven't got that much invested in it. Though maybe I'll have to learn more about it for the future. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:OTTAWA (Reuters) - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet.
Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.
posted
You know, men annoy the hell out of me, but I've got to tell you, there is a gaggle of women at Hatrack that is like fingernails down a chalkboard. At least men are fun to play with.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:though one group was Mennonite and did endure some religious persecution in their home country of Switzerland.
My Mennonite ancestors emigrated from Switzerland to PA too. Maybe we're related. (In any case, my whacko mother and your whacko grandmother were evidently separated at birth... )
Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
Actually the Mennonites that I'm related to are in Indiana. Hirschy was the family name, and they have to go back to the canton in Switzerland for quite a while before they get related to the Hershey's in PA (but they are very, very distantly related)
Also my family were rebels for Mennonites. Several of them defied their religious authorities and got educations. I know one of them was the first person in his area to recieve a non-theological higher education degree.
Lol, the ones that actually live in PA, have no actual historical family ties to the area except as they have married into local families. My grandfather that lives there now had parents that arrived as Bohemian immigrants into Chicago. My most fundamentalist grandmother's ancestors, are the only branch that I don't know exactly when they immgrated, but there is Scotch-Irish-English there (one of the family names is Logan) and a history of shady dealing river boat captains, (Captain Fix) whose son became the MD Dr. Fix and ended up as a plantation owner when his patients gave him land instead of money.
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The story of how my Hirschy relatives came to the US.
Mrs. Hirschy was married and had 7 or 8 living children. Her brother had emmigrated to the US because he could own more land there. Her husband died, and things were tough, lots of mouths to feed not enough food and money. Her brother wrote and told her that there was plenty of farmland in the U.S. sent her some money and told her to get married and come over. She married the farmhand, who was about 15 years younger than her. Another child (the farmhand's) I believe was born in transit to the U.S (and less than 9 months after the marriage too though the guy stayed married to her.) They ended up in the northeastern area of Indiana, where Hirschy's (the descendants the children of husband #1) live to this day.
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MENNONITES!!!!! I can't believe there are descendants of Mennonites on this board! Other than me, I mean!!!!
But I'm from Dutch Mennonite stock, and my ancestors came to Canada 1874-1876 and settled in the Red River Valley in Manitoba, Canada. And I'm 100% Mennonite - parents are second cousins, and third cousins, and fourth cousins. Oh, it's scary. I'm related to myself in 49 different ways that I know of. And believe me, I wish I was kidding on that one.
My parents were the rebels who left the religion/culture, although two of my siblings have since sorta returned, but not to orthodox. But that's a whole other long and drawn out lecture.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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EDIT: I lose out on age and education. I thought it was waaaay easier. That's really odd though, there are tons of people who immigrate here without those requirements!
Luckily, I'm neither American, nor am I currently residing in North America. I have legally - by marriage - earned the legal right to reside elsewhere. And happily, to boot.
For all the rest of you poor suckers still stuck there - Good luck! Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Dang. It will be years before I can move to Canada. I would love to live there because there's a lot of space, cold winters and legalized gay marriage... *Could convince a Candian girl to marry me* *Actually knows one too* I could also always get another bachelor's degree and a masters in something or another!!! Or, I could just become a pro-writer very, very soon like NOW.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Oh hey, Sara, I'm actually so apolitical that I, uh, lost the flow of what I was going to say. In truth, the biggest reasons I wanted to leave Canada were, and in no particular order:
* the taxes. Too darn high. * I wanted to see the world. Canada is not the world. And while travelling is good, it offers limited cultural understanding, hence the desire to live elsewhere * the final reason? The man I married.
But as for leaving because I was mad or angry or hated the politics? No, just the taxes. The rest? Well, like I said, I don't care. I'm very Canadian in that respect - apathetic. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I know how you feel, twinky. I thought it was way easier too.
EDIT: quidscribis, I know how you feel. Being a half-and-half person, I know I would like to move around more of the world. It's not my goal to live in one place all my life and get attached to it like it's mine.
Canada's like a house: Nice for the moment but I'll need a change soon.
posted
Syn, that's one of the huge advantages to living in a third world country. My hubby earns enough to support us, and I don't need to work. Plus because the local currency is worth so little, any money I earn from writing from North America/Europe/the civilized world is relatively worth so much that it makes a huge difference, that it actually makes financial sense for me to be a writer. As in, not be employed elsewhere but spend my time on writing.
Now to focus. Dang! I get sidetracked so easily!!! Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
As I just said to someone, this seriously turns part of my world on its head. I grew up being proud of multiculturalism and diversity in Canada despite having been born and raised in one of the whitest, most devoutly Christian parts of the country. After five years in and around some major urban centres, I can honestly say that at least in urban areas Canadians just don't bat an eye when it comes to racial and cultural things, it's all good.
I always believed that this was because Canada was a welcoming place, letting lots of people in. Obviously I was mistaken.
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I certainly see a lot of people around who are immigrants and they aren't "skilled workers" with PhDs, they're ordinary hardworking people. There must be another way of entry.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I am making all my guy friends promise to apply to at least one college out of the country in anticipation of a possible draft. Yeah, sure everyone says they're not going to have one, but we all know how they lie...Do you think disco will come back into style as well as border crossing? Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Irratating. I doubt that writers count as skilled workers. It is sort of my dream to live there. Canada is so pretty and interesting.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Well, with the popularity of the dance/rock hybrid these days, you never know...
Edit: Syn, it isn't JUST skilled workers who can immigrate... but the rules... boy, are they ever not what I thought. Honestly, this completely wrecks my image of my country and bruises my sense of patriotism a bit.
posted
I guess the self-employed class is the best way to get in, it seems to be the most vague. If you can support yourself in something you've been doing for "a while", you can theoretically get in.
I guess there has to be some restrictions...
EDIT: Syn, I think that writers count as self-employed. (edit of edit- I should really check that other people have edited their posts before I edit mine!)
posted
Marry a citizen of whatever country you want to move to. That's one of the easiest ways. Of course, it helps if you want to marry him anyway. . . Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I wonder what schools are like in Canada. I want to go back to college, I just don't want to be graded. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I guess there has to be some restrictions...
Sure, but for f*@%'s sake, *I* couldn't move here. I have an engineering degree, two years of work experience in my field (admittedly, co-op work experience while I was at school, but work experience nonetheless), no debts, passable command of both official languages, and family in the country.
The thought that if I had been born somewhere else Canada wouldn't want me is pretty upsetting, especially given that the Kiwis (and, by extension, the Aussies) are quite likely to accept me with open arms, no questions asked.
posted
Hmmmm. Without factoring in work experience, which I don't have time to figure out right now, I would need 19 more points to qualify to move to Canada. So I'd probably need to get another degree and take some French courses if I wanted to do it. How interesting.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Okay, so I couldn't help myself and checked anyway. Assuming I get full points for English mastery, with my work experience I pass. And since I wouldn't try without a job offer, I'd get more points there, too. Sara, are you sure you wouldn't qualify without David? I only have a 4 year degree, so either I'm counting something wrong or you are.
posted
Well, there are also the province-specific exemptions. If a province wants you they can "invite" you to immigrate and you can bypass the harsher general immigration rules.
posted
Yeah, and why would a province want you? Probably only if you are a doctor and they are short on doctors, or something similar. It is highly unlikely I would fit into one of those categories.
Still, this was mostly an academic exercise for me. I'm okay with Canada not wanting me.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
twinky, Canada is innundated with applicants. There has to be some sort of process. I get your pain, though.
Why not do a little further research and see if you can work toward changing things? Might that help?
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Let me tell you a story. My good friend Eric was once at a job interview and he was asked if he'd had any direct experience with diversity. He couldn't think of anything offhand and so blabbered on about diversity in the workplace and stuff. Then he came home, smacked himself on the forehead, and said:
"I'm so stupid! I'm from Alberta. I live with a black guy, a Palestinian/Kiwi, and a crazy frenchman from Québec, born in Moose Jaw, lived in Germany for a long time! I LIVE with diversity!"
My generation is so acclimatized to diversity that we simply don't notice it. Whenever my parents came to visit me in Waterloo they would always comment on the number of Asian students or Indian and Pakistani students (of which there were quite a lot). The first time they pointed it out I looked at them as though they had two heads, I just hadn't noticed.
Like I said, I always thought that this diversity existed because Canada was welcoming. Obviously it is not. That really saddens me. I've lost some respect for my country. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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You still have a lot to be proud about twinky. Otherwise so many of us wouldn't be interested, even on a mostly academic level.
Edit: Okay, I'm slow, and you clarified. I'd like to point out that your country must be welcoming, or you wouldn't have all that diversity. Aren't y'all very welcoming of refugees? Frankly, I'd rather you be able to accomadate more people who are moving because they are being persecuted in their own country and have less room for us spoiled upper-middle class white people who are pissy with their own populance.
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It's true. Canada has the most diverse cities in the world, by the data. More foreign-born residents and more second-generation residents, too.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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