posted
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with "hubby"? I don't call HIM that, but I do use it in a situation like this, where
a) not everyone knows that my husband's name is Jim, b) I don't want to use "my husband" over and over again because it gets obnoxious, and c) he'd REALLY despise being called Mr. Megan.
What's left?
Oh, and I agree that so far in this thread feminism is the (until recently) unmentioned bugbear. My only problem with calling it out as the source of the criticisms (which is probably true to some extent) is that doing so gives fodder for those who want to say, "See? SEE?! Feminism is RUINING OUR FAMILIES! Get those women back in the kitchen and pregnant, where they belong!"
I'm not saying that anyone here says that, mind you. I'm just saying that there are people who say that, and we don't need to give them any more fodder than they already have. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:And I do try to avoid threads where Kat is active, I don't know why I responded here.
Hello to the reason I no longer post in serious threads. I'm an acknowledged target of someone who can't even recognize when she is being rude or has the common courtesy to refrain from personal attacks.
[ January 21, 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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posted
There are times when I just don't understand people at all. This is one of those times. But no, don't clarify. I think I'd rather not know.
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posted
Seems to me she said she specifically avoided seeking conflicts with you, not that you were her target.
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I think the whole feminism thing that Verily brought up is interesting. I've told Mr. Opera before that even though I love being at home, a feminist voice inside me is shrieking, "Breadwinner/Homemaker family model!! Ahhh!!!"
I took a sociology course on marriage and the family, and it was fascinating to watch how both institutions have evolved over time. Because of changes in work habits, etc. the 2-income model is now the most common (obviously) and pretty much everyone in the class dissed the breadwinner/homemaker model. We had to write a paper about how we envisioned our future families, and since I was the old lady of the class I wrote a paper about my daughter's future family. It's funny, because I'm very liberal in my politics and pretty forward-thinking, but in the paper I said I definately wanted either her or her husband to stay home if they had children. I mean, despite what you think of it - it makes family life easier, neh? But it seems like wanting someone to be home is considered old-fashioned.
I still don't understand why people are bothered by housewives. It's funny - you can have a job at McDonald's, and while people may think it's not the best job to have - no one out and out disapproves of it. But many people disapprove of the housewife's job. Is there something inherently valuable in working outside of the home? Does it not matter really what kind of job you do, as long as it's outside the home and you punch a clock?
I don't have a problem with Kayla, but Kayla dislikes me and takes pot shots regularly. I can either leave, report her, or else avoid putting of myself out here that would hurt if someone attacked. I've chosen the third. I'm starting to be annoyed by it. The first isn't going to happen.
Leave me alone, Kayla.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
"It seems acceptable to stay at home if you have small children, but not if you have older ones."
Sorry to jump in without reading the whole thread, but I wanted to comment on this.
I think many women are actually choosing to stay home when their kids are in high school, in order to be more proactive in their lives. It is a time when most kids are left on their own, yet it is the time when most get into deeper trouble. I read this somewhere, and I cannot think where, sorry.
It makes sense to me.
My husband works at night, so he has always been home with the kids. We may have less of that family-together time, which stinks, but it is a trade-off we are happy with. They know someone will always be here.
[ January 21, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
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posted
Elizabeth, I have to tell you, I really like your set up. It is hard about the all-the-family together thing, but I really like that idea for a family. I loved, loved knowing that someone was always there for us, even after I was in junior high and high school. It made for a very warm, safe environment that resulted in fearless kids. Now, I was fearless because I was an idiot and had no idea what it meant to fall and have no one there to catch me, but I think that's an okay thing for kids to feel. Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
After thinking about this some more, I decided that if I was going to put my kids in school, I wouldn't get a job. I'd have, tops, five hours to do anything, anyway, and five hours really isn't that much time each day to do everything that needs to be done AND get some personal time.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
It is sad, though, how many of his friends think he has wasted his brain. "Oh, Steve is still bartending? He had such potential." I have fallen into the trap before as well. We were having a rough time for a while, and an old friend said to me, "Can't you just think of hi as a stay-home dad?" It was an instant paradigm shift. If it was me who was staying home, would anyone question my importance(financial contribution)? I doubt it. When I got sick, though, it became clear to a lot of people how important his role in our family works is. The kids did not bat an eye when I was not home for three weeks. So many people assumed he, being a man alone, would fall apart. He was amazing. I feel so lucky.
[ January 21, 2005, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Mrs. M, if you ever decide to give classes on being a good household manager, please let me know. Especially if you end up moving to Victoria, which isn't that far away. I could certainly use the lessons and it's clear to me you'd be a good one to learn from.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I have to say that I am the worst housekeeper the world has ever know. I need one of those Clean House shows to come here. Steve is so annoyed when I am home in the summers. I am terrible at motivating myself without an external schedule. That is why I am better at work. For example, I should be folding Laundry mountain right now, but here I sit, sure I will miss something.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Oh, and I agree that so far in this thread feminism is the (until recently) unmentioned bugbear. My only problem with calling it out as the source of the criticisms (which is probably true to some extent) is that doing so gives fodder for those who want to say, "See? SEE?! Feminism is RUINING OUR FAMILIES! Get those women back in the kitchen and pregnant, where they belong!"
That's a good point. Though I think I redeemed myself by the end, I did start out a bit imprecise. It isn't feminism as such that's causing problems. Feminism was a wonderful thing, when its only concern was making society view women as the equals of men. The real problem here is not feminism so much as feminists, or rather, extremist feminists. They have pushed into our society's collective brain the notion that women have the right to work so relentlessly that they, and much of society, have forgotten that if women are to be truly free (that is, "liberated"), then they must also have the right to not work if that is their choice. I think the freedom to choose is much more important than just the freedom to spend all your time at work.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
My apartment is an abstract sculpture. And I don't like the word "hubby" because it tastes bad and reminds me of Flintstones and I hate Flintstones.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: They have pushed into our society's collective brain the notion that women have the right to work so relentlessly that they, and much of society, have forgotten that if women are to be truly free (that is, "liberated"), then they must also have the right to not work if that is their choice.
I don't know if society believes that anyone has the right to not work.
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But everyone does have the 'right' to not work. No one can be forced to work. They even have the right to food and shelter when they don't work. It is just that we don't respect people who mooch off the system.
posted
Thanks, jeniwren. I'd be happy to help you out anytime. It helps to have mild OCD - it really helps me to get everything done right.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
That reminds me, Mrs. M, of when we were talking in therapy once, my therapist said her housekeeper has a neurosis about dirt.
Then she says "And it's awful isn't it, that I don't want to fix her?"
She then went on to tell my husband he should hire a co-dependent secretary, because they're the best. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Why would she want to fix something so wonderful? Dirt does need to be eradicated before it makes everyone sick. In fact, I have to go...
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I used to think my wife's obsessive need to keep bills, receipts, etc. for years was very strange. This year, it's going to get us a pretty hefty sales tax deduction.
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posted
Yep, a friend once told me that Brian "seems to have OCD, and they can do something about that, you know". To which I responded, "Yes, but I like him this way!"
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Being at home with no kids around may be irksome to others because I think there is a drive to know what other people do. What 'do' you do?
Knowing what someone does lets people catagorize and make value judgements. Perhaps it is curiosity and a need to understand others. I know that my self image suffers when I'm injured and can't 'do' what I want to or what I am used to doing.
P.S. Thanks for the welcome. I am a newbie.
Posts: 26 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Verily, I didn't mean to sound like I was picking at you; I actually basically agree with what you said. I do think, however, that many, many people have had the extreme reaction to feminism that I described--that it isn't about making men and women equal (as you said), but that it's about forcing women to "end their oppression" by working outside the home. I know quite a number of people who consider themselves feminists (myself included), and not one of them believes that either men or women are in the wrong to want to want to be homemakers. I think they think it's wrong if men expect (or, worse, demand) unwilling wives to be homemakers.
Also, I've met a few women my own age who are either homemakers without kids or stay-at-home moms, something that I have absolutely no problems with. However, when we exchange greetings, there's always the same sort of odd, awkward conversation:
Her (knowing absolutely nothing about me, except that I'm married to a co-worker of her husband): "So, are you in school at IU?" Me (knowing as much about her as she knows about me): "Yeah, I'm on the verge of finishing my PhD. Are you in school as well?" Her (looking embarassed, or on occasion, defiant, as if I'm going to mock her or something): "No, I'm staying at home [now that we have our baby] <or> [now that Scott's a manager] etc."
When I respond to this, I am always as polite and interested as I would be regardless of the answer. I don't always have a good follow-up question (like, what are you majoring in, for school), but I have never, ever implied in any way that these women are being oppressed or should be ashamed of themselves at all. And yet, they always respond to me as if I've mocked them or belittled them.
I'm wondering if these women aren't feeling a bit on the defensive side because they're expecting that sort of reaction, even though they don't know me. Maybe they're assuming that a woman getting a PhD must be a rabid feminist and would therefore look down on anyone who's being a stay-at-home mom.
Oh, and by the way, if someone has a good follow-up question to ask a homemaker in that sort of introductory situation, I'd love to hear it. If they have children, I can ask about the kids, but otherwise, I'm never sure what to say.
You could also say "Do you find that you have more time to focus on things you've always wanted to do? I've always thought if I could be a homemaker I'd have more time to read, but most of the ones I know are so busy they don't have as much time as they thought they would."
That gives her the opportunity to say "Yes, I have been able to get involved more in my hobby of X" or "No, I thought I would, but I'm so busy with X and X and X I just can't."
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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The first one, though it is true, would come out of me sounding like either empty flattery or mockery; I'm ...somewhat awkward when speaking to new people. The other two, though, I will remember and use.
I'm actually a bit surprised by the number of women my age that I've met who are homemakers/SAHMs...but I think that may have something to do with the fact that I'm still in school and still, despite being old enough to be a mother several times over, think of myself as relatively young.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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