posted
The moral of this tale being that it is better to go out cursing and drinking at wild parties than it is to stay home and bake cookies for a neighbor. Especially for underaged girls.
This one stinks enough to merit an appeal, lest the ruling be used as precedent to justify taking similar "good neighbor" cases to trial.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
My thought is that after such a blatant over-reaction by the woman, there's no point analyzing the girls behavior. Anonymous gift-giving has a long history, and this woman spit on it.
posted
Come on, Mrs. Young had an anxiety attack that caused 900 some odd dollars worth of medical bills. True it sucks that the girls were laid with this, but I don't find the ruling unfair, nor do I think Mrs. Young should not have gotten the money. It sucks, and it sucks alot. The only part of Mrs. Young's behavior that could be considered spitting on it, is her reply to their letter, and instead of graciously accepting the money, deciding to take it to court. Which I'm thinking is what you are talking about, Dag.
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Certainly true. It was an immense over-reaction. But it was inappropriate because it was an over reaction, not because it was a negative reaction.
I think if I were the judge I would have assigned damages of $5 or something along those lines (assuming I could find a way to do that within the law). Because the girls were (IMO) in the wrong, but suing them was out-of-proportion to the wrong-ness.
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I do not think that they owe her the money morally or ethically, and they shouldn't owe her the money legally, either.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Well, that's very questionable, although since they have apparantly chosen not to appeal, they do now legally owe her the money. But this is certainly a very strange interpretation of the law, and one that would very possibly not survive an appeal.
posted
Hmm. Is 10:30 not considered very late where you live? I know that East Coast people tend to be on a later schedule in terms of mealtimes and such (and TV schedules) than the Midwest.
I would never knock on a neighbor’s door past 9:00 at night unless there was some sort of emergency. Unless it was a friend who I knew stayed up late. I can see why she'd be worried/scared.
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See, I've just been thinking that if it HAD been burglars, no one disagree that they owe Mrs. Young money for the medical bills caused by the anxiety.
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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But the burglars would have been committing a crime. These girls were not committing a crime.
10:30 would be considered late where I'm from, certainly, but not fear inducing unless one of your kids was out and you thought it might be someone bringing bad news about them.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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If they hadn’t left cookies – if they’d knocked on the door and run away – then would it have been a crime? (Not that it affects how I feel about this – I’m just curious)
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: In making a claim for damages based on an allegation of another's negligence, the injured party (plaintiff) must prove: a) that the party alleged to be negligent had a duty to the injured party-specifically to the one injured or to the general public, b) that the defendant's action (or failure to act) was negligent-not what a reasonably prudent person would have done, c) that the damages were caused ("proximately caused") by the negligence.
My family was one of those that went out and did the anonymous leaving something on someone's door. We did this at Christmas time to families in our wards. I do consider myself and my family to be a reasonable prudent family. However, you have to assume that the average person does not go around banging on peoples door at 10:30 at night, regardless of intent. I feel for the girls, and I hate to see this happen, but I do see them being legally obligated to pay the money.
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But see, the girls and the family offered to pay before it ever went to court. They offered her a written apology and payment of her medical bills, in return for indemnity against a lawsuit. She refused, insisting on taking it to court instead, where all she got was what they had offered in the first place.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I guess I wouldn't make a very good judge. I would just have to tell the lady to get over it and get a life!! (Then I would be the one getting sued for causing emotional distress ) Sounds like the girls can turn around and sue back though. I mean if there is a restraining order against the woman's husband for harrassing phone calls, how is THAT not causing emotional stress?
Oh and Mack... you better hope your friend doesn't get wind of this story.. or we'll have to take up a collection to pay your legel expenses!! Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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While I think it is completely ridiculous that this woman sued, everybody who read my Weird & Creepy thread... What if these girls had knocked on my door at 10:30 the night I got that letter, and not answered when I asked who was there?
I don't think I would have had an anxiety attack and had to go to the hospital, and if I had my insurance would have covered it except for a co-pay. But I would not have been happy about it.
You can't know what's going on in someone's life, which I think is a very good reason not to do something like this to someone you don't already know, and not to do it that late at night.
So I'm with dkw... the girls were rude. And the woman was rude not to graciously accept the apology and get over it. And I hope they all learn something from the resulting bru-ha.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:that the defendant's action (or failure to act) was negligent-not what a reasonably prudent person would have done,
The prudence analysis takes into account whether a reasonable person would think that acting that way might create a risk of the harm that occurred. That's why negligent infliction of emotional distress is limited in most states to distress caused by actions that place the plaintiff or a loved one in actual danger.
posted
I don't think the girls were being rude, using poor judgement...maybe...but rude? I wish I had more rude neighbors that left cookies on my door step! Hey.. then I could sue them for ruining my diet!!
Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I agree with babager. Rude is not the term to be using. They thought they were doing something nice and used poor judgement when delivering it. Why would you do a good deed and then be rude about it?
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babager!! But only of they were good cookies!
Hey, my neighbor keeps giving me choclate cookbooks, does that mean she's legally responsible for my big butt?
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Delivering cookies is not the problem. Knocking at someone's door at 10:30 at night and then not answering when they ask "who's there?" is rude. The fact that the rudeness was unintentional rather than malicious doens't make it not rude.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: They thought they were doing something nice and used poor judgement when delivering it.
And that, to me, is rude. Being thoughtless is rude. I have no problem saying someone can think they are doing something nice but in actuality it comes out rude because of the way they do it. They thought more about what they wanted -- the cookies to be a surprise -- then about what she wanted -- to know who was outside her door at 10:30 at night. If you're trying to be nice to someone, their needs trump yours.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
The family's offer to pay the woman's medical fee's surely should have been accepted The woman's insistence to take the matter to court was just as rude and incurred futher expenses for the young ladies. This clogs up our judicial system and personally I can't understand why she would be adamant about going to court. This reeks of pettiness and illustrates the ridiculously litigious nature of our society.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:The families had offered to pay Young's medical bills if she would agree to indemnify the families against future claims. Young wouldn't sign the agreement.
She's just doing it out of spite now... or else she's nuts.... imho. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Well, Rude is an opinion, so I'm not going to touch that.
But I honestly am having a lot of trouble with the fact that she had NINE HUNDRED dollars in medical bills for an anxiety attack. What could possibly make it that high?
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Basically you show up at the Emergency Room and it's gonna cost close to a grand, around here anyway. More if they gave her medication. I was actually surprised how low the medical costs were.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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If only I lived in America. I probably could have made a fortune off that drunk woman who wandered into my house at 2:00 am just before christmas looking for booze. (I know she was because when I came downstairs she said "Hey! Do you have any beer?" To be fair she did offer to pay. And she said that I have nice hair). Heck, I prolly could have just shot her and been done with it!
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think this woman is nuts, and while it's sort of unfortunate that she's now going to be a real victim of prank calls and doorstep leavings, she brought it on herself. I mean, her husband is calling and harassing these kids? Wtf?
That said, it makes me wonder about what role a person's disabilities should play in society. She apparently thinks that her anxiety disorder makes other people financially responsible for causing her anxiety... hmm. Around where I live, there's a small child with a lethal peanut allergy. The parents want the child to have as normal an upbringing as possible, which means enrolling her in school and sunday school. However, little kids and peanut butter go hand-in-hand. Even if all of the adults in her life go out of their way to avoid using peanut butter or other peanut products in the classroom, the other students all bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, chocolate bars with peanuts, have peanut residue on their hands and under their fingernails... For this girl to be safe, it would require a major change in the lifestyles of ALL of the parents and kids around her, a change that I doubt most people are able to make.
But it's not really fair to lock this girl up in a bubble for the rest of her life, either... so what do you do? Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I think I was told that this allergy is severe enough that an epi-pen wouldn't necessarily be enough... is that possible?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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At camp we have a camper who comes every year who has a lethal peanut allergy too. Since this is a diabetes camp, low blood sugars are treated in part with peanut butter for the protein. The sessions this particular camper comes we have to give out cheese instead and wash everything that had come into contact with peanut butter. Since it's a closed environment, we are responsible for her safety, and the point of the camp is to teach how to incorporate healthy living into a normal lifestyle.
In real life, it is not so easy. I guess there are just certain sacrifices that must be made, like not eating with the other children. Or, in this lady's case, shouldn't she have gotten her husband to investigate the knocking knowing that she was prone to extreme anxiety?
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:So uhh, any bets this woman is going to get a visit from the ghosts of Valentine's past, present, and future?
This woman and her husband are obviously bonkers. The girls' leaving cookies was probably the most exciting thing to happen in the last five years. It's a shame the woman had to involve them in her crazy, and it's appalling her husband is harassing them.
[ February 07, 2005, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Wanita Young said, "This has turned into quite a fiasco. It's something that never should have happened and it's just devastating. My phone hasn't stopped ringing. My life has been threatened and I'll probably have to move out of town."
Well, I certainly don't agree with death threats, but I wonder how many times she has gone to the hospital since - because if a plate of cookies is enough to send her there, surely a death threat is too?
I tried to think of this as a parent. What would I want my children to do?
I probably would have told them, after about 9:00, not to knock on anyone's door, but leave the cookies (assuming they were in plastic wrap or something protective) on the doorstep for them to find in the morning.
But the fact that this woman didn't accept a written apology and an offer to pay the medical bills tells me she was after them out of spite, or because she was hoping to get a lot of damages awarded. And the huband bothering one of the girls - that's just ridiculous.
I certainly wouldn't want these people as my neighbors.
edit: husband, not father
[ February 07, 2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Belle ]
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: Oh my gosh. I guess insurance makes me ignorant.
*grin* I always make a point of reading the benefits statements they send me afterwards. Last time I was at the emergency room, it was right around $950, of which I was responsibile for a $50 copay.
You wouldn't believe what my trip to the allergist cost. Wow. I was blown away when I got the statement... makes me very glad I have private insurance.
Oh, and Bob the Lawyer, yeah, you probably could have shot her if you'd been in the US. But then I bet she wouldn't have complimented your hair.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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My plasmapheresis(blood washing, basically) cost about 6,000 bucks each time, for just the plasma itself. Yikes! If we were uninsured, they probably would not have done the procedure, or else we would be broke.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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See, but I have a friend who went through a really bad aneurysm and almost died, while he was totally uninsured, and the "safety net" completely caught him. He came out of it without crippling medical bills, and he at least felt like he got the same level of care he would have if he was uninsured.
So while I know it doesn't work for everyone, I'm not quite as cynical about our system as I used to be.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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What is this safty net of which you speak? The woman in the hospital with me had an almost-aneurism three days before her insurance kiscked in, and i never got her number and have woried about her ever since.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Elizabeth, I'm not sure exactly what services he ended up using, but I'm talking about the government services that are in place to make sure uninsured people get the medical attention they need. Medicaid, maybe? It was several years ago... I'm going to see him next weekend, I'll ask if I remember. But he worked part-time as a clerk at a hardware store at the time, and did some freelance carpentry that I think he may have gotten paid under the table for. And was in a band or two. None of those offered the best benefits packages, to say the least.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Yeah, I have to say I don't begrudge paying Medicaid out of my pay after my pregnancy was covered.
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
(Then I would be the one getting sued for causing emotional distress ![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
) Sounds like the girls can turn around and sue back though. I mean if there is a restraining order against the woman's husband for harrassing phone calls, how is THAT not causing emotional stress? ![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
babager!! But only of they were good cookies!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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