posted
I just reserved my copy of the next book online, and a recommended book popped up, What's a Christian to do with Harry Potter? I remember hearing about there being a big stink (as mentioned in the first chapter of the book) in many Christian sects about the books promoting devil-worship and witchcraft (like the Jack Chick Track "The Nervous Witch." )
What I'm wondering is: do people really honest to god believe that these books are bad, or know anyone that does? Why do you/they feel that way?
Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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My mother is convinced, having not even read the books that they are evil. Perhaps it's because of the references to witches and wizards. Anything with witches and wizards is considered evil to some people, I once got yelled at by my father for reading a kid's book called, "The Witch's Cat." This is one of the many reasons why I don't live with my parents. If they could get past the witch/wizard thing they'd realize how good the books are morally.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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My ex-husband's sister-in-law and her family are very much anti-Harry and anti-Halloween. We were at their house a few years back for their son's birthday party, and my older daughter brought one of the HP books to keep her occupied. I had to sit through several HOURS of gang-up berating by these people. Poor Heather was nearly in tears over it. And no, I didn't have the option of leaving the party, we had no car at the time and rode with his parents, who weren't about to leave or hand over the keys.
I have NEVER gone back to any multi-family event with that group of people since that incident.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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My father, my friends, all the really old people at my church, and a LOT of people I know are convinced the books are evil and moreover "bad for children."
I think they're okay. (the books, not the above mentioned people. )
A girl I know had a book one time that taught 10-18 year old how to cast spells.
I would much rather children be learning about witches and things from Harry Potter, which puts a fun spin on things, than from a book like that. I mean there were "Romance Spells," "Money Spells," "Revenge Spells."
I was creeped out. Posts: 925 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: I know people who do, and to be honest I even understand it.
Then, why? Why do they think this way?
quote: A girl I know had a book one time that taught 10-18 year old how to cast spells.
I would much rather children be learning about witches and things from Harry Potter, which puts a fun spin on things, than from a book like that. I mean there were "Romance Spells," "Money Spells," "Revenge Spells."
I love Harry Potter, but it isn't about the witchcraft in that girl's book; it's fantasy. THe spells in that book were probably real ones (though they don't work in the same way Harry Potter's do). I would say romance and revenge spells, especially are not healthy for anyone, especially not children. Money spells are specific, and only give you the amount of money you need at that time.
There's a lot more to this than you think.
Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Harry Potter is just cute harmless fantasy. I don't agree with Syn that the books are all that moral, but I don't find that a problem.
I hated the Phillip Pullman Dark Materials trilogy for some of the concepts and, yes, the behavior and morals of the characters, but I don't consider it an evil series either.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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I have talked at length with several of my christian friends about this topic. Those of us who are christians who read Harry Potter are generally better read individuals. We tend to read for pleasure far more than those that denounce HP has the devil's tools for turning our children from God. Or some other such nonsense.
A lot of the scripture that's quoted about HP has to do with not letting yourself hear evil things or you will do evil things or say evil things. They also point out that witchcraft is specifically noted as evil in the bible.
What they seem to always miss is the fact that it is fantasy and a work of fiction. I can never quite seem to pull them out of that frame of reference, even as a fellow christian. They believe Harry Potter to be evil, they will find anything and everything to support that argument. Despite reason. It's effing annoying.
Probably the only argument that holds any weight is the popularization of witchcraft. While I, personally, don't think that there's a whole new generation of witches and wizards that are going to grow out of this (just like there aren't thousands of wizards crawling around no matter how much D&D they played in Mom's basement). I can see where this might upset concerned parents. Especially parents that watch waaaay too much Maury Povich.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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My sister, baptist or equivalent thereof, thinks the books are evil and won't allow her daughter, 14, to read them or watch the movies. But then, my atheist brother gave her the books for her birthday or Christmas or something, and what could they do about her favorite uncle? *snicker*
I'm LDS, and I have no problem with them. They're entertaining fiction. You know, fiction, that stuff that's all made up and not real. Yeah, fiction. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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One of my friends, (a CHristian) received several of the books as gifts and, after much discussion with fellow christians and much thought and prayer, burned them! I thought that was pretty extreme, but I guess she felt if they weren't appropriate for her kids it wasn't right to give them away to others. Most of my Christian friends don't like them, for the reasons Primal Curve mentioned... they have a biblical basis for their concerns.
My kids and I like the books and will continue reading them. But I don't consider them a must-read, I respect my friends feelings on this, and we just don't discuss HP when we are with those particular friends.
Posts: 239 | Registered: May 2004
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I mean, come'on! Fiction is fiction. It's just fiction!
I have a hard time with anything being labeled as "bad" unless it is bad information trying to be passed off as truth. But Fiction? How is Harry Potter any different (as far as being make believe) than any other fiction piece out there? You start pointing out this book, then that book, and pretty soon you would have to ban everything by that standard. Bambi doesn't really have human emotion and talk. Thomas the Tank Engine - train engines don't really have feelings. Harry Potter is make believe.
As a Christian, I don't have any problem with it at all. In fact, I really enjoy Harry Potter just because it IS a struggle of good vs. evil (like so many books) and of Harry trying to grow up and decide which path to follow.
posted
As a Christian I love the HP books. I can’t wait for the next one.
I do have a few friends who don't want their kids to read them, but aren't ready to start burning them.
I asked them what was different from HP and something like LOTR, which most Christians support. They said it was because HP is set in the present day real world not some fantasy land. So their kids are more apt to think it's real. (I don't think that holds up)
I don't know anyone who opposes the books who has actually read them.
I wish these people would find a worth while cause to put their energy into, like helping the poor or one of the many other things Christ asked us to do.
Posts: 555 | Registered: Jun 2005
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It is pretty straight forward....their religion frowns on it, for reasons that make a lot of sense within the tenants of that religion.
Fantasy or not, those books could cause confusion within the belief system they are teaching their children.
Starla*, I assume you are Wiccian? I don't believe that magic works like in Harry Potter, nor am I Wiccian, but if you are then your question is disingenious at best. You know why they don't approve, even if it isn't all psudo-latin and wand waving.
I don't agree with my friends on this, but I do understand why they don't want to expose their children to something that they don't approve of, even in a fantasy novel.
posted
Not that I'm advocating this book at all, but if you read about, this is actually a book that does advocate reading the Harry Potter books with your family, and then trying to extrapolate Moral and Christian themes from them to use to teach children. It's not one of those straightup "Boycot and burn because OMG they're EVIL11!!11!!" books.
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
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Last year or the year before (can't remember) I had one of the HP books with me at the pool when I happened to be there with my kids and the neighbor I like so well(and her kids). She saw me reading it, and I mentioned that it was a birthday present for me.
She asked if we read them to the kids, and I said no, they were still too young to sit through longer stores (must've been at least two years ago).
Anyway, she's a Baptist and I was expecting at least some friendly caution, or something. She's never been obnoxious about trying to convert me, which is why we're still friendly (though I know her husband disapproves of us as a family).
She said she'd heard on a radio program that Harry Potter had killed his parents, and was that true?
O_O Ah, no.
She just smiled and said, "I didn't think so. I didn't think you'd be reading it if he did."
We talked a bit about HP, and though I believe the books won't be allowed in her home, she was really cool about it. So cool, in fact, that I felt almost no urge to be snarky. Which is rare for me.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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It is so frustrating that they use the blanket term, Christians. It is a very small group of fundamentalists who have problems with this sort of thing. My sister belongs to a small group called Church of Christ which is a fundamentalist group similar to the International Churches of Christ, (not to be confused with the moderate and liberal United Church of Christ). The elders of her church have labled Harry Potter as an evil book and prohibit church memebrs from reading/seeing it. She abides by the rule, yet allowed her kids to watch LOTR and Star Wars. I don't get it.
Posts: 514 | Registered: May 2005
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And because of how long it takes her to get each book out, technically the story was all wrapped up a couple of years back -- late nineties, IIRC. which means that it's not present day!! Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Being a diverse group of folk, they disagree and argue about it just about as much as they disagree and argue about pretty much everything.
Posts: 6213 | Registered: May 2001
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ScottR - I agree. She is a really, really neat lady. It's funny how she and I have opposite spiritual histories. She was prettymuch religionless at first, and had a hard life because of her choices, then converted and is now a devout Baptist. I started out as a devout Baptist and made good (or lucky) choices, have had a life without major regrets and am now prettymuch religionless.
It IS sad that our differences have kept our families at arm's length, though. Their kids liked Ron and me so much that they have to be careful how much time they spend with because our beliefs or TV viewing habits may contradict their teachings. I think they were afraid of them looking up to us, so they told them we aren't Christians and now they give us tracts and try to witness to us all the time. Big, sad, inncoent eyes, terrified that we're going to hell. *sigh*
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I think the Harry Potter books are harmless fun. In my opinion if your child isn't old enough to diferentiate between fiction and reality than its up to you to decide. But the books get kids to read and are really just a fun story.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Honest to God, people really do. I got in a big argument with one of the ladies in our bible study a few years ago about it. I'm very pro-Harry Potter, she (who had never read them) very against. Ultimately, we had to agree to disagree, but I still think it's stupid to argue a series of books as bad when you haven't taken the time to read at least one of them.
I was sadly also confronted with this stupid prejudice again a week or so ago, when my son (who goes to a private Christian school) told me in response to my suggestion that he take the last HP book to school for his reading time, that his teacher didn't like HP because it was "fighting evil with evil". I'm going to get her a copy of Finding God in Harry Potter (an excellent book for explaining how fundamentally rooted in Christian values the HP series actually is) and see if she still thinks that after she's had a chance to read a little more fully informed.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: Starla*, I assume you are Wiccian? I don't believe that magic works like in Harry Potter, nor am I Wiccian, but if you are then your question is disingenious at best. You know why they don't approve, even if it isn't all psudo-latin and wand waving.
No, not wiccan, per se--pagan, yes.
And no, I don't understand why. No, it doesn't work like it does in harry potter, and I'm starting to wonder if it's not just a conciousness thing, but that's beside the point.
I just can't get why some fundamentalists think that this will "convert" people to witchcraft. In fact, believe is the better word, because if they were really thinking, they wouldn't believe them, tey would have researched it first.
No, I don't understand, that's why I asked. Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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pagan on the road to atheism with a respect for nature, if anyone's wondering about the one comment.
Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Although I am a Christian, and believe in the Bible (and other scripture), I don't believe that witchcraft exists, or any other actual "magic" for that matter. I know that scripture mentions witchcraft and such, but I can't help feeling that it is not referring to what we think of when we think of "witchcraft".
I think the kind of "witchcraft" referred to in scripture is kind of like "priestcraft". (I'm not sure how much the concept of "priestcraft" is discussed or recognized outside of LDS circles, at least by that name.) In other words, "witchcraft" is evil because it seeks to manipulate other people by convincing them that the "witch" has some kind of power, and by doing so the "witch" obtains power or wealth or other perks. The whole thing is based on lies and greed, and at the same time lures people away from religious truth, and should be shunned for this reason.
In other words, I don't think that "witchcraft" was condemned in scripture because there are or were ever really any "witches" that had any magical power, with Satanic sources or otherwise.
Since I believe all of the above, I really think the objections to Harry Potter are extraordinarily silly.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I went to church with my grandma this weekend, I hadn't been to her church in 9 years. In the Sunday school classroom that a little girl I knew (distantly related) was in, they had Harry Potter posters up, the pastor and his wife both said they were amazing works of fantasy, and can't wait to read them to their daughter (she's not quite one). This made me so much more comfortable with religion, of course, there is no church of that denomination within a half hour of my house.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:No matter where you look, you will never find Hogwarts. There is no Diagon Alley.
What?!
That depends on wheter or not "you" are a muggle. Muggles don't see things they're looking right at.
Of course, Dkw being a cleric means she's a divine spellcaster, while wizards are clearly arcane spellcasters. I'm not sure how that stacks up for one perceiving the other's hidden places. Anyone have a 3.5 DMG handy to check? Flip to the part about it not being fantasy and telling you how to cast real spells, Jack Chick says it's in there somewhere.
posted
One thing I never understood about the claim that D&D teaches real spells:
Does anyone really think there would still be jocks picking on nerds if any of them knew how to cast a fireball?
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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To anyone who argues against reading Harry Potter because it could lead to evil, or any other such thing, I suggest you ask them to read Mark Twain's Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg
Lead Us Not Unto Temptation is not always the best choice.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: Does anyone really think there would still be jocks picking on nerds if any of them knew how to cast a fireball?
*snorts*
I'm a Christian, I played D&D and Magic the Gathering (would still, if I had the time) and I LOOOVE Harry Potter. I think the silliest are the people who let their kids read LotR and not HP. I want my kids looking to Harry, Ron and Hermione as role models ( especially Hermione ).
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:In fact, I really enjoy Harry Potter just because it IS a struggle of good vs. evil (like so many books) and of Harry trying to grow up and decide which path to follow.
This is true. With the stark contrasts between good and evil, I found the Harry Potter books as Christian as star wars. (It took me quite a few years to read the Harry Potter books, and I thought that they were fine.)
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Well, I never mastered Fireball, but I could punch out a mean Magic Missle. Those jocks stopped bothering me after that.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Starla*: pagan on the road to atheism with a respect for nature, if anyone's wondering about the one comment.
Do you practice tarot Starla? I've been using it recently to great effect. I have no psychic abilities so it is worthless to me as a tool for seeing the future, but it's an excellent way to reflect on things that are going on in my life. I often see things in a different light or even things that I had not considered. I use it to supplement prayer as I ask God to guide me as I use them.
Why are you moving towards atheism? I am an agnostic who has been trying to re-establish my relationship with God after abandoning organized religion. I was borderline atheist for several years.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Sometimes when people get too worked up about whether the spells in Harry Potter are “real spells used by actual witches ” I tell them that since they all seem to require a wand containing either a hair from a unicorn, a dragon heartstring, or some other component of a mythical beast it should make them feel pretty secure about the low danger level from actual witches ™ . It just seems to confuse them, though. *sigh*
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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My wife has used it for years. I used to shurg it off until she read me a few times. I find it's a great way to get an introspective on certain aspects of myself.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:I think the silliest are the people who let their kids read LotR and not HP.
I don't find this any sillier. LotR takes place in a very purposely "Christian" (pre-Christ Christian, to be specific) world. I can think of several reasons for not wanting kids to read HP that wouldn't apply to LotR. I disagree with those reasons, but they are logically consistent given the premises of the person making them.
Ironically, there's a little anti-Tolkien backlash from some Christians because of all the Catholic influence. It's quite amusing.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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