posted
And if you're shallow enough to walk away from someone you otherwise love enough to marry because somehow you're not compatible sexually, then you aren't ready for marriage anyway.
And what the heck does it mean to not be compatible sexually, anyway? Perhaps in an extreme case where one person just doesn't like it at all. But otherwise??? It's a stupid concept. If you love each other, sex comes naturally and you can experiment together.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: And if you're shallow enough to walk away from someone you otherwise love enough to marry because somehow you're not compatible sexually, then you aren't ready for marriage anyway.
And what the heck does it mean to not be compatible sexually, anyway? Perhaps in an extreme case where one person just doesn't like it at all. But otherwise??? It's a stupid concept. If you love each other, sex comes naturally and you can experiment together.
maybe you got lucky, and we're compatible with your partner, but you have to admit that there is a possibility that two people just arent meant to be, sexually, just as certain people just arent meant to be personality wise
and sometime sex doesnt come naturally, thats my point
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: No, I don't have to agree with that. Because it's not true.
you're going to have to be more specific, and also explain what authority you have to make an absolute claim regarding the truth of a statement
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Uh you first. What authority do you have to say it is true?
only my experience and opinion, and i THINK its true, based on all those things, i don't know anything for sure
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Angiomorphism: where are these numbers (or lack thereof) coming from? over 50% of marriages in the states end in divorce. do you know what % of those were people who waiting until marriage to have sex? i don't
What numbers? I didn't mention any. I was just wondering if sexual compatibility is really that big of a factor in determing the longevity of a relationship. I've always heard that finances is the biggest problem (or one of the biggest).
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
One of the things Coccinelle learned in her classes was that about half of all teenagers have relationships that last longer than nine months, and of those, about 10% actually get married.
Those are lousy odds if someone wants to be that they will be with their junior year boyfriend for forever, but it also means that 5% of the population married their high school sweetheart.
Added: My middle brother is one of them. He and has wife have been married for two years, but have been together for...over eight, I think. Since he was 16. I have no idea when their sexual relationship started, but about 90% certain it was well after high school, though.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:the sex will take care of itself? well obviously you dont have alot of experience with this issue
No, actually you don't. If you did, you would realize that if two people love and respect each other, there is very little (other than some of the more Frisco-like deviations ) that two people can't work out in bed.
I fall ore in the "committed relationship" camp than the "marriage" one, but I an not in favor of any 16 year old having sex.
If 16 year olds are so mature these days, and so descerning in their judgements of their potential loves, why don't mroe high school sweethearts get married and live happily ever after?
Because at that age, in this day and age, they are still kids figuring out who they themselves are, and the large majority of them are ready to commit to a favorite ice cream flavor let alone a potential family.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:So, you're saying that sex is better the more partners you've had? And since I had no partners before my husband, I'm really missing out on some good sex. And really, I should have tried him out before hand to see if we could make it work.
Yeah. And we're naive.
I'm saying that I have enjoyed sex more as I've had more partners. I don't know what if anything you're missing, but I would've missed out on a whole lot if I had waited until marriage.
Therefore if my advice is asked, I don't answer, "Wait until marriage."
I didn't, and I'm glad I didn't.
I don't think that that's naive.
If you did and you're glad you did, then that's another part of the story, and I have no problem with that.
If I had waited, my marriage would've been disastrous. I'm very glad I didn't.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Well why don't we just take the word "know" out the our vocabulary since we can never really know anything for sure. We could all be some figment of someone's imagination and not really here at all.
I speak in absolutes because what I believe is what I believe. It is clear I am the author of my words, so why should I preface what I believe with "I think"? I speak emphatically and when I discover I am wrong about something, I change my beliefs, and move on. I don't have the time or the inclination to preface everything I believe in with a discussion on "What is truth? Really?"
My opinions regarding sex, relationships, and marriage are based on MY experience and my observations of others. I have heard no compelling argument against them, so I stand by them.
quote:I have no idea when their sexual relationship started, but about 90% certain it was well after high school, though.
You might want to explicitly state what "sexual relationship" means to you before you make that statement (I assume that "sexual relationship" means intercourse).
Of course, you know your brother better than I, but I have some experience with teenage guys, having spent 7 years as one.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I think you can't find a rule that works for everyone. Course, I'm saying this as someone who has had sex before marriage, and has every intention of continuing. As for the pregnancy bit, I intend to never have children, and whether I were pregnant at 17, or in ten years, my approach to it will be the same.
For some people, abstinence is a comfortable choice for them and they will likely choose a partner who has the same beliefs. Hopefully they'll enter their marriage with the same feelings about everything, including their sexual relationship and how to approach it. For some people, abstinence isn't their choice. I think it's vital that we give these people the knowledge they need to act upon that choice as safely as they want to be. If you were to talk to a young woman and ask her if she wanted disease, pregnancy, or emotional pain she'll likely tell you no. So we should offer her all reliable resources on minimizing disease, unwanted pregancies, and unwanted emotional pain. For some of you, you feel that the best way of thwarting these is by being abstinent. Okay. But why must everyone choose that option?
It's the pregnancy thing. I think if there were only an option of disease and emotional pain, then you all would let Lizzy make her own decision. After all, life is full of mistakes and triumphs.
But here we have this possibility of affecting someone else who wasn't in the decision making process. Do we argue about whether or not couples on welfare should be allowed to have sex? After all, those couples must be similarly disadvantaged to raising a child as the average teenager. I don't think we do. Because it's ultimately that couple's choice.
Sex has to be under personal sovereignty.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I have many reasons to be against teenagers having sex, but one of them is this:
Sex draws people together, emotionally. It just does. It binds relationships tighter, and if you're not completely committed, that can be a very thing. It means some relationships go on much longer than they would otherwise, longer than it is healthy. It also means that breaking up hurts much worse. I've had a couple of wrenching but necessary breakups in my life, and I am a thousand times grateful that I'd never slept with them - they would have been even worse.
Added: I really don't know about my brother's sex life. Any guess I made would be a guess. I don't know. It's not really my business anyway. However, based on stuff they said while in high school, I'm pretty sure they weren't, then.
Self-control is possible, even for teenage boys.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:I speak in absolutes because what I believe is what I believe.
Which is fine and good. But may I respectfully suggest that your experiences and observations might not result in good advice for every other person in the world?
Not that you shouldn't believe it, not that you shouldn't offer it. But I think it is possible for someone to make entirely different choices from ones you (or I) might think wise and, because of their own experiences and observations, might be happier as a result.
There may be a few absolutes when it comes to human interaction, but not very many. I'd say there are none, but, well...
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:No, actually you don't. If you did, you would realize that if two people love and respect each other, there is very little (other than some of the more Frisco-like deviations ) that two people can't work out in bed.
Having been in such a relationship (for eight years) where it was all love and respect but sex was a constant source of tension, I must say that love and respect isn't enough.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Dean: Do you believe that if you had waited until marriage, you wouldn't have come to enjoy sex like you do now? That is, do you think your enjoyment is a result of multiple partners, or is it simply a result of having a certain amount of experience?
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Chris, I don't know if you were talking to me, but what you said certainly applys to everyone in this thread.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:For some people, abstinence is a comfortable choice for them and they will likely choose a partner who has the same beliefs.
Possibly more accurately, abstinence is an attainable choice for some people, and a desired goal for many others. There aren't a whole lot of people for whom abstinence is "comfortable."
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I was responding to Katarain's comment on absolutes, but I agree. Advice from experience is important, but I never assume that my choices are the only correct choices anyone could ever possibly make.
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posted
Jon Boy: Not to downplay my past relationships too much, but there's a certain chemistry in my current relationship that is unmatched. This chemistry is due to personality compatibility, tons of communication, and a very positive approach to sex that I hadn't come across before. This is not due to generic experience generation, but due to a really good match. And it took us both by surprise.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Hmm...how about positive? Saying something is a correct choice raises the question of what is dictating what is right or wrong. I'm more comfortable saying that there are many more positive outcomes possible than saying there are many correct choices posssible.
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posted
Chris, is that a mildly amused take on physical comfort? I'd like to think that people who choose that route are completely emotionally comfortable with that stance.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
It's not just a question of experience. I was in one relationship for eight years (ages 16 through 24) and never enjoyed sex like I do now. If I could've learned it with one person, I certainly would've. So I do think that different people made a difference. And yes, in the end, the sex was the wedge that drove us apart. Sex problems can make a huge difference in how things go.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:For some people, abstinence is a comfortable choice for them and they will likely choose a partner who has the same beliefs.
Possibly more accurately, abstinence is an attainable choice for some people, and a desired goal for many others. There aren't a whole lot of people for whom abstinence is "comfortable."
Cold showers and a Victoria's Secrets catalog...HIV, pregnancy and some really neat oozing sores and my own perpetual pus machine.
For a one-night stand that may or may not be all that great.
Hmmm...yeah, tough one there.
Although, to be fair, it would be more of a challenge if I actually had offers to turn down.
posted
dabbler, I'm not sure I see your point. Are you saying that you had to have previous sexual experience to enjoy this relationship fully? Or are you saying that you enjoy this relationship despite previous sexual experiences?
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
That if I had married someone else, I would not have realized this extent of compatibility. And this kind of compatibility is what I will seek from now on.
You could see it that I've "spoiled myself" for perhaps lesser physical relationships. Or you could see it that I'll be happier in the future with this knowledge and ability.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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sex is a means to show your love for someone you care about alot. it has consequences if not approached properly, but if it is, it can be a wonderful and rewarding (lol)thing
its a part of any real relationship, how big a part depends from person to person, but it is a part
imagine you couldn't truly see someone's personality before you married them? doens't that sound ridiculous? well it is, and to a certain extend depending on what kind of person you are, it is ridiculous to think of marrying someone before you know how you are sexually together
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
You can be abstinent before marriage and still talk about sex with your future spouse. Don't know if you're into the same kinks? Want to know if you have the same interest in sex? Are you both open to adventure or is one more "vanilla"? Talk about it first. You don't have to have sex to know whether or not you'll be compatible after marriage. And there's so many different ways to engage in sexual activity, there shouldn't be any worries about physical compatability. Both partners can have lots of fun.
Chris, I did say in prior comments that there are exceptions to what I was saying...but I can't help believing that they're few. See, the big problem is that none of us can really experience both sides of this argument... waiting vs. not waiting. Those of us who waited see the advantages, and those of us who didn't see different advantages. I have not, however, found anyone myself who regretted waiting for marriage, yet I have found many who have regretted NOT waiting. That's why my advice is to wait. The odds are in your favor, I think.
And if you don't wait, that doesn't mean your life is over. It can still turn out beautifully. But that doesn't necessarily mean it turned out well BECAUSE you didn't wait.
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: You can be abstinent before marriage and still talk about sex with your future spouse. Don't know if you're into the same kinks? Want to know if you have the same interest in sex? Are you both open to adventure or is one more "vanilla"? Talk about it first. You don't have to have sex to know whether or not you'll be compatible after marriage. And there's so many different ways to engage in sexual activity, there shouldn't be any worries about physical compatability. Both partners can have lots of fun.
Chris, I did say in prior comments that there are exceptions to what I was saying...but I can't help believing that they're few. See, the big problem is that none of us can really experience both sides of this argument... waiting vs. not waiting. Those of us who waited see the advantages, and those of us who didn't see different advantages. I have not, however, found anyone myself who regretted waiting for marriage, yet I have found many who have regretted NOT waiting. That's why my advice is to wait. The odds are in your favor, I think.
And if you don't wait, that doesn't mean your life is over. It can still turn out beautifully. But that doesn't necessarily mean it turned out well BECAUSE you didn't wait.
-Katarain
i think there are ALOT more people who do not wait until marriage, so of course you would be exposed to them more, its a simple matter of ratios
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I know plenty of people who wait and who believe in waiting. After all, waiting is strongly encouraged by my church, Seventh-day Adventists, and I'm sure you'll find lots of people on this very board, considering waiting is also recommended by the LDS church.
Also...I have known a lot of people... enough to get a good cross section of examples.
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I know plenty of people who wait and who believe in waiting. After all, waiting is strongly encouraged by my church, Seventh-day Adventists, and I'm sure you'll find lots of people on this very board, considering waiting is also recommended by the LDS church.
Also...I have known a lot of people... enough to get a good cross section of examples.
-Katarain
im not so sure the people you know make up a representative sample of the population, considering the large bias in your social circle. sry
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote: JB: wouldn't it be great if we had actual numbers to talk about
-Fugu
Well, if we can assume that more Mormons are abstinent before marriage than "normal" people, but they have (according to our leaders) the same divorce rate, I'd say sexual incompatibility among abstinent before marriage people is not a significant factor in divorce. A pretty big assumption.
Though to me, basing the decision to marry on sexual compatibility seems silly. But maybe I just lucked out.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
oh for sure, i wouldnt base it entirely on sexual compatibility, but it should play some sort of factor, if you are going to have a healthy and lasting marriage, no?
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: You're assuming I only know members of my faith.
I didn't even marry an SDA.
Sheesh.
and i also quote "I know plenty of people who wait and who believe in waiting."
think about it, if you are looking for a representative sample (we are talking inductive arguments here) you need a random sample, and it has to be large; much larger than ones social group. i didnt assume anything, i simply responded given the information you provided. please read my posts more carefully
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I know plenty of people who wait and who believe in waiting. After all, waiting is strongly encouraged by my church, Seventh-day Adventists, and I'm sure you'll find lots of people on this very board, considering waiting is also recommended by the LDS church.
Also...I have known a lot of people... enough to get a good cross section of examples.
-Katarain
I used to be SDA. Most of my family still is.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Just on the off change that I've given the impression I'm in favor of reckless promiscuity or mandatory premarital sex, or that I feel all advice is useless, let me make a few points.
I do not believe that premarital sex or premarital abstinence inherently offer automatic Good Marriage points.
I do believe that children and teens should be taught to respect themselves, to respect others, and to think about why they do what they do. They should receive as much sex ed as they are mature enough to receive so that there is never a point in their lives where they have to snicker amongst their friends about a sexual fact, because they know they can just come ask their parents and get an honest answer. Pre-teens should know, as a matter of fact, that their body belongs to them and that it should never be given out casually, because they think they owe someone, because they think it's expected, or because they want someone to like them. Teens should know, bone-deep and unassailably, that they shouldn't have any sex with a risk of pregnancy with anyone they wouldn't want to spend the rest of their lives with. And, because honesty and communication has been stressed, any lover they choose must be fully aware of this commitment and the attendent risks. They should know, without having to think about it, to be open and honest and know beforehand what their and their lovers expect out of the relationship. They should be self-aware and secure enough to never have sex with anyone they would be ashamed to admit to later, or to do anything in private that couldn't stand the light of day.
While I would stress abstinence in sex ed, I would also teach all other forms of birth control so that kids would have as much information as possible. But mainly I would stress responsibility, for themselves and their actions, so that abstinence or carefully chosen relations would be the natural result.
Telling kids not to have sex seems to me to be futile and naive, unless the groundwork is there. And if the groundwork is there, you shouldn't need to tell them.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
"They should be self-aware and secure enough to never have sex with anyone they would be ashamed to admit to later, or to do anything in private that couldn't stand the light of day."
I really like this advice. Inevitably on the boards I visit some teen always posts to ask if they should have sex. I think it is great advice to everyone. Don't have sex with someone you would be ashamed to admit to. If you aren't able to defend your decision it is probably the wrong one.
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: The same goes for the pill, it offers 99.99% protection if used properly, but if you do not take it within the 3 hour time frame every day, that % lowers to around the 70's as well. (used together, there is almost no risk % wise)
I *really* doubt that statistic. I have been on the pill for ... 6 years, and in that time I have on many times not taken it within the 3 hour timeframe.
And have never fallen pregnant.
(Not to say that the effectiveness *can* decrease - but not by that much and not because of a discrepancy of more than three hours. If anything else, travelling over big time differences would be problematic!)
***
I realise conversation may have moved on somewhat. Still reading the first page, but just wanted to respond to this point while I remembered. Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: The same goes for the pill, it offers 99.99% protection if used properly, but if you do not take it within the 3 hour time frame every day, that % lowers to around the 70's as well. (used together, there is almost no risk % wise)
I *really* doubt that statistic. I have been on the pill for ... 6 years, and in that time I have on many times not taken it within the 3 hour timeframe.
And have never fallen pregnant.
(Not to say that the effectiveness *can* decrease - but not by that much and not because of a discrepancy of more than three hours. If anything else, travelling over big time differences would be problematic!)
***
I realise conversation may have moved on somewhat. Still reading the first page, but just wanted to respond to this point while I remembered.
i was getting my statistics from Dr. Sue, the famous canadian sexual educator. i have heard her say comparable things to what i mentioned several times, and she even came to my university to talk once, and said the same
maybe you're just lucky Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote: posted June 29, 2005 11:49 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The same goes for the pill, it offers 99.99% protection if used properly, but if you do not take it within the 3 hour time frame every day, that % lowers to around the 70's as well. (used together, there is almost no risk % wise) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I *really* doubt that statistic. I have been on the pill for ... 6 years, and in that time I have on many times not taken it within the 3 hour timeframe.
And have never fallen pregnant.
(Not to say that the effectiveness *can* decrease - but not by that much and not because of a discrepancy of more than three hours. If anything else, travelling over big time differences would be problematic!)
That's like saying "I never wear a seatbelt, and having never been in an accident, I can testify that they're useless."
You can have unprotected sex every day for six years and never get pregnant. Just because you haven't gotten pregnant doesn't change the % for birth control. Who's to say that you or your boyfriend aren't impotent?
And travelling doesn't change anything, you just take the pill every 24 hours (subjectively), not at the same local time every day.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I have said it before, and I’m sure I’ll say it again – the idea of “auditioning” potential spouses sexually is, IMO, both offensive and stupid. There are plenty of people on this thread who make reasonable arguments for not waiting until marriage, but that is not one of them.
If you’re not sure enough that you want to marry someone that you’d stay with them even if the sex was bad, DON’T GET MARRIED even if the sex is great. Because chances are very good that at some point in your lives there will be physical and/or emotional issues that are going to affect your sex life. Maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. And if you aren’t sure that you’d stay with your spouse in those circumstances, you shouldn’t be married.
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