posted
So the traits you were looking for in a woman changed.
But didn't your behavior with the people you began seeking after change also? You didn't sleep casually with them? Was there just not so much desire to sleep casually with the sort of people that would make a good life partner? Or were they the sorts of women less likely to want to have sex casually?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:List-maker person marries objectified person. They have a fight, List-maker wins. Degraded person. Objectified person.
(Did anyone else get that??)
Seriously, though...
I'm coming in to this thread kinda late and probably saying things that have already been said, so I apologize.
My first sexual experience was a big mistake, and I do regret it. I was way too young, completely naive and inexperienced, and really didn't know any better. I worry that a lot of other kids are going through the same kind of experience that I had - it seems like a great idea at the time, and the two of you really "love" eachother, but a few years down the line when you begin having really serious relationships, you regret those first couple of times. Yes, it was special to me at the time, but compared to relationships I have had more recently, it was very shallow, emotionally. I won't say that it has made other sexual experiences less special, exactly, but I wish I hadn't done the things I did. I do believe that sex is more than just instinct and should be shared with someone that you really and truly have strong feelings for. I don't think that marriage necessarily has to come before sex, but if someone is prepared to have sex, they need to be prepared for the possibility of raising a child (I am 100% against abortion.)
I'm worried that a lot of teenagers today are being taught by Hollywood, etc, that sex is something fun they can do without consequences. I worry about the teenagers that assure their parents that they won't do anything irresponsible, and that they can be trusted, and then they wind up pregnant. I don't know what can be done about it, but it's a worrying thought.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
"You didn't sleep casually with them? Was there just not so much desire to sleep casually with the sort of people that would make a good life partner? Or were they the sorts of women less likely to want to have sex casually?"
More the latter, actually. They were a completely different class of women.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
You know, what it boils down to is I just couldn't imagine wanting to spend time with someone i had lukewarm feelings for. Friends and lovers, both. I had a lot of sort-of friends in high school, mostly because we were together all day. But once the bell rang, i never made an effort to hang out with any of them, because most of them i just wasn't that in to, friends-wise.
Greg says I tend to view people very black-and-white, in that i don't spend time with people i'm not pretty good friends with already. How am i ever to make new friends?! :0(
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Porter, I got it. I thought of responding, but didn't.
quote:More the latter, actually. They were a completely different class of women.
Interesting. You don't find anything wrong with casual sex, but for some reason the sort of people you think make better life partners are at least "less casual" about sex.
Any thoughts on why that might be?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
In Dallas, I learned how to spend time with people that I am not crazy about.
I like them - some I like very much. Some I sort of tolerate. But in general, I had to learn how to have friends that I enjoyed sometimes hanging out with, but would never want to be very close to.
I still have problems with it. It feels...I don't know, it feels kind of fake to me. I'm always friendly, but I'm not always available for a friendship. Isn't that false advertising?
On the other hand, the alternative is not hanging out with friends. That is not acceptable at all. And I have found some good, funny, smart, with a streak of wickedness friends this way, so this is okay.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I don't have any friends where I live. I had 1 friend, but she moved away and doesn't return my calls. I thought we were friends--turns out we were neighbors. I had some church friends about twice my age, but I don't really see them anymore. My husband, of course, is my friend, but I meant outside of him.
This is totally off topic. But what Kat said reminded me of it.
I won't get into a description of what I looked for in a sex partner vs. what I looked for in a wife. But...
In a society in which premarital sex is viewed as irresponsible, in general, people who engage in frequent premarital sex are more likely to be irresponsible. In general, such people are likely to have rejected certain traditions and mores, which also correlates with a willingness to do so. And so on. In my case, certain personality traits that I find incredibly sexually attractive are also traits with which I'm completely incompatible.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I do have a best friend here in Dallas (Coccinelle), and I have other friends that see sometimes just us, but I hang out with the beautiful people because I need groups. I need to work a party once or twice a month, or I'm just not happy. I know this about myself - it took a lot to discover it, but it's true. It's just not plausible to get together 20 people in a room and have me like all of them. That's okay.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:What if you didn't particularly like their personality, but you were madly, insanely, attracted to them? That would be anything but lukewarm.
Bev, I'll answer this for Kira cause she's not around. Kira has the uncanny ability to be completely not attracted to someone who's personality she doesn't agree with(in a I think this is a bad person sort of way). I think everyone does this to a certain extent. People who weren't as attractive to you in the past become more attractive to you as you get to know them better and like them better. And other people who are naturally attractive can become less so in your mind because of who they are as a person.
Well Kira can't and doesn't seperate people's personalities from their looks, in that her emotions and feelings dictate how she views a person completely. You should see some of the people she's had crushes on. If I wasn't a secure person I think I'd have to worry about my looks given the comopany I'm in.
So my long and drawn out point in all this is that I don't think the scenario you suggested would ever happen to her.
posted
Strider, I can jive with that. What's more, I can really respect that. I tend to be that way myself.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:I like them - some I like very much. Some I sort of tolerate. But in general, I had to learn how to have friends that I enjoyed sometimes hanging out with, but would never want to be very close to.
That sounds very alien to me -- how can you call somebody like that a friend?
I wonder if it's an extroversion vs. introversion thing?
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:So, did you go to the TMBG show the other day?
I wish. It's just too much of an effort to get away for the evening. Maybe if they are still touring in 20 years...
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I think it has to be an extroversion thing. I don't think they do actually qualify as friends. I think a friend is someone who has seen you at your worst and likes you anyway. Of all the Beautiful People, the only person who qualifies under that definition is Micah the Mathematician, and maybe Harmony the Cheerleader Accountant.
I don't have a good descriptor for them, though. Acquaintances doesn't quite work, because we are the same social group. Hang-out buddies, I guess, but that's an awkward phrase.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:It's just not plausible to get together 20 people in a room and have me like all of them.
Don't be too hard on yourself. If I'm in a room of 20 people my age, chances are I don't like about 8 of 'em.
*aside to Katie - My friend in SLC who felt alienated because LDS girls wouldn't give him the time of day (from the thread I can't remember two weeks or so ago) is now probably moving to Baton Rouge. Can't think of why you would have any interest in that little anecdote, but I didn't do all that typing just to delete it....and I remember talking to you in that thread and it reminded me of him.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Aren't acquaintances people you have met a few times? "Pleased to make your acquaintance." - that kind of thing. I think someone I see every weekend or every other weekend is more than an acquaintance.
JT: That's cool - I hope he likes it. It's a hot and humid time of year to move to Arkansas, that's for sure.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
See, I look at friends pretty much the way Katie does. My CLOSE friends are what most of the people on this board would consider friends, but I've got a whole category of people between acquaintance and close friend that basically amounts to "people I'd go to a party with."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
To me an acquaintence is someone I "hang with" when convenient, but it is mostly just surface stuff. They aren't really a part of my life. I tend to have few people I actually think of as friends.
Doesn't help that they keep moving away. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I have about 25 "friends", people I hang out with but don't feel particularly close to. On the other hand, I have about 5 "best friends". People I've known forever and know everything about, and vice versa.
Best friends, by my definition, are people you'd call in the middle of the night to bail you out of a mexican prison.
Friends are people you're on a first name basis with but don't care to hang out with every day.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I think I'd like to think of those people as "friends" that I currently think of as "acquaintences". Because I generally do like those people. I don't know why I make that distinction though. Maybe because at heart I am such an introvert.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I hope not. I have...three, really. There come from different parts of my life.
I have had only one best friend at a time before, and it really doesn't work for me. I'm VERY social, and I tend to make friends with introverts. That means that I almost always need more social interaction than they do, so I kind of "spread it around." This works - everyone's happy.
I've wondered sometimes if that isn't part of why dating can be frustrating for me. I tend to fall for introverts as well, but it isn't really accepted to have more than one at a time, which means I almost always need more interaction than they are comfortable with. So, I try to be good and not flirt or date more than one at a time, and that means I end up feeling sort of trapped.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Kat, the way you've talked in this thread, you are reminding me more and more of my good friend Maria, Porter's cousin who introduced us.
We were hand-in-glove as teens, best friends. Very close. Sadly, we are not so close now. Though when we get in contact, we have a lot of fun talking still.
She was drawn towards introverts. And she was a marvelous "people connecter". If you started with a social gathering of people where the ice was thick, she'd come right in, break the ice, make everyone feel at ease, and get people talking to each other who normally wouldn't have had the nerve. She was just about a celebrity in our Texas singles ward. Everyone knew and loved her. She even had her own faction following of devoted minions.
Most, if not all, of the guys she dated were very introverted. I wonder if she ever felt trapped? I honestly don't know--but I don't think so. I think she tends to revolve her whole life around the guy of her choice, though, and focuses so much on him that she is satisfied. It may smother the guy, but usually they bask in her attention. It thrills them, and if she leaves, them, I've seen them be devistated for life.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
*nods* I think that happens to anyone who is comfortable in all situations. Many people aren't. I, however, am not a very good Minion-Keeper. I feel responsible for them, and that makes me itchy, and I run. Sometimes literally. I've left parties before because I can't handle being followed around.
The situation with guys you mentioned has happened a couple of times, and I HATE how guilty I feel after. Catherine has expressly forbidden me from flirting with Micah the Mathematician because I know I'm not interested in anything serious with him, but it's easy to forget sometimes.
Sadly, they do always get over it. They are upset for a while, but they are fine. Even the holdouts turn out more like Willoughby than Dante.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:I only half-like most of them, and they only half-like me,
Didn't Bilbo once say something like this?
Most of her "minions" were just not desperate enough for her to enjoy them rather than feeling grossed out by them. She had no problem getting the message clearly to people she didn't want around. Assertiveness is something she has plenty of--well most of the time anyway. And people respect her all the more for it.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Oooo...I am definitely pulling that quote out someday.
I deleted the comment from which you quoted, though, since I wasn't entirely sure it was true. I think another possible explanation is that it's a challenge, and I like that a great deal.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Sorry about the double-post. Our internet is acting slow, and I got impatient. Mind if I keep the quote there? I likes it. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:*aside to Katie - My friend in SLC who felt alienated because LDS girls wouldn't give him the time of day (from the thread I can't remember two weeks or so ago) is now probably moving to Baton Rouge.
quote:It's a hot and humid time of year to move to Arkansas, that's for sure.
posted
Oh, you should have. That is kind of embarassing, except it does scan the same. All those little states kind of slide together anyhow. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
don't worry kat, I have no idea what they are talking about. I don't even know these places exist.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I'm just trying to redeem myself slightly. *sigh*
What part of Texas are you going to? If it's near Dallas, we should go to lunch. I know a great Ethiopian restaurant where you eat with your fingers. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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