posted
"Call me a romantic, but I was hoping you'd remain faithful to her because you love her and your marriage vows included something about fidelity."
That helps, yeah. But let's be honest, here. That works because the following things (including others) are more important to me than sex:
1) Love 2) Honesty 3) Integrity 4) Companionship ...
If sex were in fact more important to me than these things, I'd be looking elsewhere. It is not.
Again, people who make a big deal out of sex should remain abstinent until marriage, or else make a point of marrying their favorite lover.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Tom, He disgusts me because he spoke in a too familiar way about my husband and I. I never mentioned our sex life except in the broad sense to say that we were happy and that we didn't have a sex audition before we got married. It offends me that he spoke so crassly about things he knows nothing about and actually thought to suggest sex with a stranger to a married woman. To me, that goes against all sense of propriety and although he has freedom of speech, I also have the freedom to not engage him in any sort of conversation or discussion. And since someone will probably bring it up, YES, I did say I mourned for his future wife--but I don't think that is the same thing as it was based on his own opinions regarding marriage and not specific in any sense. And if it was the same thing, I choose to not continue the discussion any further anyway, as, to me, he went too far.
posted
"He disgusts me because he spoke in a too familiar way about my husband and I."
While I agree that he was certainly excessively casual -- and insulting, at that -- I think this is a case of a simple misunderstanding. Based on what he's said in this thread, I believe he's coming from a culture which doesn't find discussions of sex as intimate or as personal as yours does.
Perhaps merely expressing your displeasure and demanding an apology would suffice?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Tom, He disgusts me because he spoke in a too familiar way about my husband and I. I never mentioned our sex life except in the broad sense to say that we were happy and that we didn't have a sex audition before we got married. It offends me that he spoke so crassly about things he knows nothing about and actually thought to suggest sex with a stranger to a married woman. To me, that goes against all sense of propriety and although he has freedom of speech, I also have the freedom to not engage him in any sort of conversation or discussion. And since someone will probably bring it up, YES, I did say I mourned for his future wife--but I don't think that is the same thing as it was based on his own opinions regarding marriage and not specific in any sense. And if it was the same thing, I choose to not continue the discussion any further anyway, as, to me, he went too far.
-Katarain
wow.. im surprised that you were so affected by that statement. i was simply making an obvious observation based on 2 peices of information you provided us with, 1. that you have a good sex life with your husband, which im sure is true, and 2. that you have never had sex with someone else. My point that you have no frame of reference with which to compare the quality of your sex life with was not meant as a personal attack at all. I think the idea of going out and having sex with strangers in order to see if it could be better is ridiculous, and that logic even applies to people like myself who have had more than 1 sexual partner. I was simply trying to show you that there is the possibility of better vs. worse sex, and since you do not have a perspective on this issue, maybe you shouldn't be commecting on it so sternly.
I think that when you find someone with whom you are happy with, and love, then everything should work out great. When i say that sex is important, i dont mean that it is exclusively important. i think that sex, as well as personality, sense of humor, physical appearance, emotional and intellectual intelligence, etc. are all factors to consider when thinking about a relationship with someone, and if said relationship is to work and be healthy and lasting, it helps to have all these characteristics checked off. like tom said, sex is important to him, but not the most important thing.
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote: Perhaps merely expressing your displeasure and demanding an apology would suffice?
I am displeased. I do not require an apology.
Angiomorphism, I feel you contradict yourself too much. I dislike personal comments about my personal life. I have a good perspective from which to view my personal life and this issue. I am just as qualified as you are to offer my opinion. I don't think the so-called advantages of sleeping around outweigh the disadvantages. I still think that any sensible man or woman should be offended at having to participate in a sex audition with anyone who otherwise wants to marry and/or live the rest of their life with him/her. I think the concept of sexual incompatibility is extremely rare and something that you really only have to worry about if you have had many sexual partners and sex is an extremely high priority for you. I think there are valid emotional reasons for abstaining from sex until marriage along with physical ones.
I admit that I have been deliberately inflammatory toward you because I find so much of what you say to be offensive nonsense. I apologize for my attitude. I don't think you and I will ever be great friends, but there's no need for my vitriol. If you can abstain from referring to my personal life, I can do the same regarding yours.
posted
Kata, I have also heard of people being physically unsuited for each other. I won't give the gory details, but as ElJay says, girls are only accommodating up to a point.
Kat, I love the rules of life, I think that needs its own thread. Or the old thread needs to be resurrected.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: Perhaps merely expressing your displeasure and demanding an apology would suffice?
I am displeased. I do not require an apology.
Angiomorphism, I feel you contradict yourself too much. I dislike personal comments about my personal life. I have a good perspective from which to view my personal life and this issue. I am just as qualified as you are to offer my opinion. I don't think the so-called advantages of sleeping around outweigh the disadvantages. I still think that any sensible man or woman should be offended at having to participate in a sex audition with anyone who otherwise wants to marry and/or live the rest of their life with him/her. I think the concept of sexual incompatibility is extremely rare and something that you really only have to worry about if you have had many sexual partners and sex is an extremely high priority for you. I think there are valid emotional reasons for abstaining from sex until marriage along with physical ones.
I admit that I have been deliberately inflammatory toward you because I find so much of what you say to be offensive nonsense. I apologize for my attitude. I don't think you and I will ever be great friends, but there's no need for my vitriol. If you can abstain from referring to my personal life, I can do the same regarding yours.
-Katarain
im sorry if i took it too far. i consider this forum to be a good place to debate some interesting issues, and when i post here, i look at it like that, as if it were a debate. i dont get mad, and i never take any personal attacks personally, and i guess i assume to much if i think that the people discussing these things with me will have the same attitude. it is true that sometimes i contradict myself, and that is because i am still learning as the debate unfolds, and sometimes when someone makes a good point, i re-evaluate my opinion.
on topic, ive come to an interesting conclusion about this whole sexual compatibility thing. i think that it would be very hard to be sexually incompatible with someone whom you love and have strong feelings for, becasue for me, those are also things that make sex good. and i certainly would never approach any aspect of a relationship as a literal audition. i was merely saying that when you get to know someone you might be interested in, it is good to try and get to know their personality, their humou, their intelligence, their sexuality, etc. well before you engage in a relationship with them. so maybe if you've got all those other things, then that person would be sexually compatible with you anyway, since they are good for you in general. following that logic, you would eliminate all the sxually incompatible people with other means, such as not liking their personality, etc. that way, you would never know about sexual incompatibility, since you didnt have sex with any of the people you would be incompatible with
does that make sense? lol
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Okay, I'm thinking about the boyfriend that was too large for his girlfriend story.
I guess it's possible that a woman might have a condition whereby her anatomy doesn't stretch and accomodate as well as it should normally. And I know that during pregnancy your ligaments and other tissues loosen up and are more able to stretch.
But I'm still having trouble believing that a part of my body which is able to accomodate the passage of a full term, almost 9 pound baby would have trouble accomodating something that wasn't nearly as large circumference wise.
And that is the most delicate way I can think to phrase that comment, and I apologize if it was still too indelicate for some tastes.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Belle: Okay, I'm thinking about the boyfriend that was too large for his girlfriend story.
I guess it's possible that a woman might have a condition whereby her anatomy doesn't stretch and accomodate as well as it should normally. And I know that during pregnancy your ligaments and other tissues loosen up and are more able to stretch.
But I'm still having trouble believing that a part of my body which is able to accomodate the passage of a full term, almost 9 pound baby would have trouble accomodating something that wasn't nearly as large circumference wise.
And that is the most delicate way I can think to phrase that comment, and I apologize if it was still too indelicate for some tastes.
the female vagina is only about 9 inches deep in length on average. if your man has a larger member than this, then things could get uncomfortable
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
No, but I still think that things can be worked out. I mean, there are conditions that can make sex very painful for women but with good communication between partners and with a doctor usually things can be worked out.
And I speak from experience, having dealt with endometriosis for more than 9 years. Pain during intercourse is one of the chief symptoms. Ovarian cysts, which I also had often, can hurt and even rupture during intercourse.
It takes patience, love and commitment to get through trying times in a marriage sexually but I'm proof that it can be done.
Okay guys, this is about to get specific and perhaps too indelicate for some. Be warned.
Both partners can learn to accomodate for the other's benefit. Angio, in the case you described, where things might be more than 9 inches, the male partner can control the depth of thrust to avoid hurting his partner.
As someone who has had to work through times in my marriage when the sex was not great, and even long periods of time (like my high-risk twin pregnancy) when sex was impossible - I am convinced that few physical problems with sex cannot be overcome in the relationship, if both partners are truly committed to each other.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Tom, I would kind of hope that the fact that you have all these other strong feelings about your wife would MAKE the sex better with her than with the mystery girls of your past ... if in a different way.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:John Smith: How many? Do you want me to go first? Okay, not that I keep count or anything... but somewhere around high 50s low 60s... not that it matters or anything.
posted
"Tom, I would kind of hope that the fact that you have all these other strong feelings about your wife would MAKE the sex better with her than with the mystery girls of your past ... if in a different way."
No, not really. It helps make the sex GOOD -- don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining about the sex at all, as Christy's naturally talented in that regard -- but it does NOT make it better than it has been with anyone else.
I've actually had really, really, really great sex with someone I only barely knew. *shrug* Like I said, the emotion's not everything.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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The physical issue that I referenced involved a man who was double-digits (sorry folks) and a woman who was too...shallow (probably the cleanest way to describe). This wasn't a physical situation that could be remedied, and they both considered a healthy sex life to be part of a complete relationship. You can argue whether this is or was a valid point, but for them it was important and they made their decision like responsible adults.
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
As for the rest - it is possible that fetishes could be conflicting on both sides of the fence.
quote: Partner 1: "Honey, I really like this..." Partner 2: "Oh, that's disgusting!"
Tastes, preferences and fetishes can be overcome and adjusted for, but depending on the partner's reaction to the fetish, there may be a whole lot of middle ground to cover.
Physical impossibilities are more difficult - "He's too big" or "industrial conveyer accident" and so on are more problematic and will also require a great deal of middle ground to successfully overcome.
I will point out that judging by the divorce rate, there is commitment and then there is commitment.
ok, so there is alot of extra-marital affairs that happen in our society, and alot of these affairs can be explained (not justified) by one partner's lack of sexual gratification or pleasure. sooooo maybe if people were a little more conscious of secuality when getting involved in a relationship with someone, then there would be alot less affairs in marriages. not everyone can be as faithful as Tom, especially when they know "better sex" is out there
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Folks? For the most part everyone has been very respectful in the way this topic has been approached, and for that I'm thankful. However, things are just getting a little too graphic for the age-sensitive nature of the forum. I'm not identifying any posts or posters in particular, because I don't think anyone has intentionally crossed a line, or done so with any type of malicious intent.
Moving forward, please do your best to refrain from graphic descriptions. Thank you.
posted
I think the frequency of affairs isn't due to sexual incompatibility but, to follow Tom's convention, people who value sex over trust or commitment.
I've read that affairs are frequently not about the sex, at least not solely. They are the consequence of people not placing importance on marriage, or a sense of entitlement, or simply the fact that society doesn't condemn adulterers the way it once did.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Yeah, exactly
i guess i dont really have any perspective on the issue, as i have never had an affair, but yeah, i suppose there can be lots of reasons for them
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I am sure there are a thousand reasons for affairs. I don't think any of them are justifable, though. If there were problems in a marriage before, they just got worse. If there weren't, there are now!
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Lets see if I can step back and approach this at a different angle.
I do not choose to have sex in order to: 1) See if I'm sexually compatible in the marriage/long-term sense. 2) Make them like me
I have chosen to have sex with a partner because: 1) It's generally fun/pleasurable 2) It's the next step in intimacy with my partner (not the last step, but one in many, just like a kiss or telling each other about your childhood)
What is marriage? Ideally, to me, it's a symbol of the stability I feel and expect in my relationship with this other person. It's a way of celebrating that relationship with friends and family.
Marriage is a different step into intimacy that might fall before or after intercourse for different people. And I think that should be alright.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I don't need to have an affair to have a perspective on affairs. I can empathize with something without having experienced it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
yeah, but im sure you could speak more knowledgably about the topic if you had experience with it. its like in phylosophy, is there a difference between knowing how to swim and actually swimming?
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Not sure I'm going to 100% agree with you on that Puppy -- seeing as how on the OTHER side of the forum, you and others have a thread that mentions, in part, clitoris and orgasms, and nothing has been said there, and I don't think this thread got that detailed yet...
However, thankfully that other thread has moved on past that part of the conversation.....
Not sure I'm going to 100% agree with you on that Puppy -- seeing as how on the OTHER side of the forum, you and others have a thread that mentions, in part, clitoris and orgasms, and nothing has been said there, and I don't think this thread got that detailed yet...
However, thankfully that other thread has moved on past that part of the conversation.....
Fg
why is mentioning the clitoris or and orgasm any different than mentioning an arm or laughter. these are all natural things that any 13 yr old already knows plenty about. if we cannot have a mature and respectful conversation on sex, then that is sad (likewise, if the mention of clitoris and orgasm was not in a mature respectful way, then power to ya)
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I agree with Puppy- I can predict with close to 100% accuracy how good a physical relationship with someone is going to be within 5 minutes of meeting them. 5 minutes is plenty of time to assess whether or not there's chemistry and whether or not he is capable of focusing his attention on something other than himself. Trying it out is fun but not necessary.
I also agree with Tom- having the emotions does NOT make it better just because the emotions are there. Emotions make it preferable, for me at least, but they do not make it better.
I also agree with dkw- if I ever decide to enter a legally monogamous relationship, it probably won't have a thing to do with sex.
To answer the question "is sex a big deal," spend time defining what sex means to you personally. Is it a recreational activity? Does it have emotional significance? Does it (or its lack) have theological significance? The discrepancies between people in this conversation seem to be less about whether or not the sex should be had and more about what the sex means or doesn't mean.
Posts: 186 | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:There is little or no offensive material apart from four ****s, one ******** and a ******** and as they only occur in this introduction you are past them now.
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