posted
Well, they are highly intelligible ones. Feel free to create a new topic, as I would be the first in line to reply, if I am on the site. So, what are your views on today's America?
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Well, it depends. Are you talking about the media afflicted America, or the people themselves? Of course, it's getting harder and harder to differentiate between the two nowadays.
The people themselves are just like the ones in any other country, until they meet up with good ol' media. The need to be accepted in the cultural melting pot that is America has taken over free will and made people desperate to be the same. So what if my new pumps are going to break my back when I'm thirty? I'll wear 'em 'cause that girl in the magazine did. I've never been to an American school, so don't quote me on this, but if you went to a school there, you'd find a lot less free-thinking than you do here. Not to say Canada doesn't have their fair share of media mind-control.
My biggest problem is the contradictory messages being sent out. They're telling young girls to eat a 1200 calorie burger, and attempt to squeeze into a size 1 pair of pants. And when they can't, they get depressed and become anorexic. A whole generation is being raised to believe they're no good, and they need to change to fit the current image of what is in.
And my political views- well, I'll probably just embarrass myself here. What with the election, I haven't been paying as much attention to other political news as I should have been. But anyways...
My big political problem is the war in Iraq. I don't even know why they're in there anymore. And it's a political war, so why are they killing innocent civilians? I'm not sure how much of this has gone on, but any is too much. I wont go any further with this, however. I don't know enough about this topic to post my political views all over the net.
Note: I apologize about any innacuracy here, please correct me if there is any.
Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Of course, as an American, I'm impressed that there are other countries that give free stuff away every day! Two of those countries are Canada who gives HEALTH INSURANCE to its citizens and Germany who gives away HIGHER EDUCATION.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
How old are you(fae)? I really can't put an age description on you, from what you have said. You could be 30, you could be 20. I can't really say.
However sickening it may be to hear these things, and however much I may love my nation, and however devoted to it I may be; that's true. The media part at least. I myself think the war was a very good idea, and that we still need to be there, to ensure stability and that Iraq doesn't fall to America's greatest enemy... Communism . *gasps*
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I'm not saying that just because Europe is arrogant, that makes it okay for us to be arrogant as well. I'm saying we're both arrogant, just in different ways, and if Europe doesn't want to be arrogant AND hypocritical, it should shut up. Just because we're more in your face about it to visiting foreigners doesn't overwrite the fact that Europeans are cut from the same cloth, and they aren't fooling anyone.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
To attempt to keep my identity safe, I'll give you the range. How anyone would be able to figure out my identity by my age, I'm not sure, but I've been made paranoid. I'm 12-15. I'll have to add this now, too. Please don't take anything I say less seriously because of my age. It's always been a big problem of mine.
I think that the problems in Iraq (gender descrimination is one of the big ones) are too big to be solved by war. It's going to take a lot more than guns and tanks to make the Iraqis understand gender equality.
Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Asking me not to judge you by your age is a very ironic statement. Gender equality isn't what is trying to be solved. Democracy has been established, and within 20-50 years, the conlict will arise. That is however, I can really see why this is a subject America should stick its nose out of.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I understand wanting to help Iraq out, and I know the country is doing what it thinks is right. But going to war to stop a country from becoming communist... America is a democracy. It works for them. But Iraq contains a completely different culture, different people. It might not work for them. And even if they become democratic, America is now going to feel as though they have to give women the right to vote (which they should, but will more war resolve that?). A forced democracy... sounds kind of odd if you think about it. Democracy is about the freedom to choose.
Edit: Sorry, I misread your statement. However, I'll leave this up anyways.
Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
The communist thing was a joke. And no, communism works for no one. It never has, and never will. Democracy works. It is the reason America has the longest lasting government currently in order.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Disclaimer: the following is posted by Tzadik
Reticulum, what exactly do you mean by:
quote: Culturally, Europeans are the MOST arrogant people you can possibly meet on the entire face of the Earth.
Have you lived in Europe? Have you lived in most of the European countries? I mean lived, not visited the way Americans visit - 10 countries in 10 days. You are making very bold statements about Europeans and Europe - and have no clue what you are talking about.
I am simply offended by your statement about my arrogance, seeing I am European as well. Guess your statement confirms to the Europeans the stereotype American - caring for nothing but the US, the rest of the world means nothing. What do you know, what have you experienced about Europe and Europeans that makes you make a statement like this?
You talk about Europeans being culturally arrogant - please come over to Europe and experience it. Experience your fellow citizens coming to Europe and acting as kings of the world because they are Americans - not caring at all about the culture of the nation they are visiting. After all, we are Americans so we can do whatever we please! We are going to be loud and obnoxious and don't care about how we act on a visit! Of course, not every American is acting this way - not at all. But a lot of your fellow countrymen do, that's a fact nobody can deny!
I know US, have been there, love it there, I think it's a great place to live. As well as the Czech Republic where we live with my wife (who by the way is an American) or Slovakia, where I was born, or Hungary, Poland, France or Switzerland etc. So please, think before you post something so offensive! It just confirms the title of your thread... Posts: 2762 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Chungwa: Well, much of the "third world hell holes" are hell holes because of actions of the developed world.
Europe, really.
And your nation doesnt pay the corrupt politicians in mine so that they vote against building an oil refinery, so that the crude is sold to your country cheaper?
Posts: 56 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Europe is not a single culture. Culturally, the French are very different than the German, or the Polish, or the British -- to the point that you might have *great* problems living in one of those countries -- I sometimes think some of the European cultures are more foreign to one another than the American is to them.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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LeoJ - I actually think it's kind of funny. Reticulum answers his own question with every post he makes, doesn't he? *amused*
Posts: 2762 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I think if you sit back and let Reticulum argue this one out by himself, he'll make a pretty good case against Americans himself Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:The communist thing was a joke. And no, communism works for no one. It never has, and never will. Democracy works. It is the reason America has the longest lasting government currently in order.
It may not be really pertinent, but it's worth pointing out that communism is an economic system and democracy a political system. In actual practice it's debatable, but from what I know about communism the two aren't mutually exclusive in theory.
And never say never. Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by andi330: Of course, as an American, I'm impressed that there are other countries that give free stuff away every day! Two of those countries are Canada who gives HEALTH INSURANCE to its citizens and Germany who gives away HIGHER EDUCATION.
As far as Canadian health insurance goes, it ain't free.
Some provinces, such as BC, charge a flat rate for individuals or families, although that amount can be subsidized for those earning under the threshold. In Ontario, I believe it's paid for by the employer (Ohip). The remainder of the cost - in all provinces and territories, comes out of tax money that Canadians pay.
And Canadians pay a heckuvalot in taxes.
That doesn't make it free. That just makes the income/expense stream less visible.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I guess all nations have prejudices and unjust expectations attached to it. U.S. just has more visibility in this point of history. British were seen in a very negative light, sometimes, in their hayday, as the ancient Romans. And it goes on, and on.
Many people tend to think there are only few things in Brazil, for example:
- Beaches with lots of naked or scantly clad "mulatas". - Amazon Jungle. - Big "favelas" (slums) where drug dealers hold sway.
Although all three do exist here, most of Brazil isn't composed of beaches or jungle or favelas. There are big, great cities, deserts, mountain ranges, etc, etc.
Unfortunatelly, some nations are seen as a threat, because of the sheer power they have, and how they wield it. Over here, in the third world, it's not hard to feel bullied by the U.S. and other First-World Countries (strangely, this feeling tend to come more fron the U.S. than the other countries combined), as though the rest of the world was their playfield. It may seem paranoic to some of you, but after 20 years of bloody military dictatorship backed and funded by the U.S. (please, I'm not arguing if it was or wasn't. Neither the military at the time nor American Government ever denied it) many Brazilians tend to have a very dim view of U.S. interference in other country's politics.
Just a non-American perspective on the subject. By the way: I don't hate America, nor it's people (heck! I'm planning to spend my honeymoon, or part of it over there!) But yes. I'm veeery skeptical of the good intentions in U.S. foreign politics.
(sorry for the broken english)
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by LeoJ: Education is free, as in america, but the problem is that in america it sucks.
Education is free but Higher Education is not. In Germany once you are able to go to University it is free. All you have to worry about is paying for room and board.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by andi330: Education is free but Higher Education is not. In Germany once you are able to go to University it is free. All you have to worry about is paying for room and board.
Both education and higher education are free here in Sri Lanka ... so does that mean we poor old third-world country people are better off than Americans? Or is somebody going to tote out the "some guy from a hell-hole country insulting me" bit again? Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
In the U.S., it is true that higher education at private institutions is far from free. At state institutions it's still not free, but it's pretty cheap -- for residents.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:In the U.S., it is true that higher education at private institutions is far from free.
It is if you get private scholarship, like from the Gates Foundation and the United Negro College Fund for those disadvantaged culturally, and the LDS church for Saints to go to BYU.
It's just a matter of what you want to give back. Contribute to society with ideas from a diversity of culture, or pay taxes to let politicians decide how your money should be used as far as "welfare" goes.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Also, as far as I know, OHIP has nothing in particular to do with employers. It is funded with public dollars.
I did my taxes last weekend, and I have to say I'm not convinced that we pay a "heckuvalot" in taxes, whatever that means. You might be interested to know that Canada's taxation rates are roughly the OECD average. Slightly lower, in fact. We do pay higher taxes than our large neighbour to the south, which I think is where the perception that our taxes are astronomical comes from.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Reticulum, what did you think about the links I posted?
The saying that love is blind is a false one. Infatuation can be blind, but real love requires understanding. Failing or refusing to see that a dear one has flaws or is ill, is not love; it is cowardice.
The same is true for love of one's country. It is especially true for countries like the U.S. where we have a duty to find our flaws and correct them. What our country becomes is our responsibilty. That is an awesome thing.
Loving the U.S. and what it stands for requires that you be a citizen, not a cheerleader.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Well, LeoJ, saying that education sucks in America is kind of an unfair statement. Have you ever been to an American school and been educated there? What are you comparing it too? All these scores you see Americans getting on tests are all averages. Does it mean every person in America is as intelligent as this test? No. There are a lot of intelligent people in America. There are also a lot of dumb people. In those kinds of tests, they put a person who gets strait A's, in the same group as a person who gets strait F's. Is this an accurate way to judge the intelligence of a nation? No, it is not.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote: Is this an accurate way to judge the intelligence of a nation? No, it is not.
As a teacher, I must say it: it's very hard to conceive a way to do it that isn't dumb (and I never knew of anyone who succeeded).
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lissande: Disclaimer: the following is posted by Tzadik
Reticulum, what exactly do you mean by:
quote: Culturally, Europeans are the MOST arrogant people you can possibly meet on the entire face of the Earth.
Have you lived in Europe? Have you lived in most of the European countries? I mean lived, not visited the way Americans visit - 10 countries in 10 days. You are making very bold statements about Europeans and Europe - and have no clue what you are talking about.
I am simply offended by your statement about my arrogance, seeing I am European as well. Guess your statement confirms to the Europeans the stereotype American - caring for nothing but the US, the rest of the world means nothing. What do you know, what have you experienced about Europe and Europeans that makes you make a statement like this?
You talk about Europeans being culturally arrogant - please come over to Europe and experience it. Experience your fellow citizens coming to Europe and acting as kings of the world because they are Americans - not caring at all about the culture of the nation they are visiting. After all, we are Americans so we can do whatever we please! We are going to be loud and obnoxious and don't care about how we act on a visit! Of course, not every American is acting this way - not at all. But a lot of your fellow countrymen do, that's a fact nobody can deny!
I know US, have been there, love it there, I think it's a great place to live. As well as the Czech Republic where we live with my wife (who by the way is an American) or Slovakia, where I was born, or Hungary, Poland, France or Switzerland etc. So please, think before you post something so offensive! It just confirms the title of your thread...
So you're going to allow the words of one American affect your opinion of ALL Americans? I've met my share of arrogant Europeans vacationing and living in America, and my share of perfectly nice Europeans. It's Reticulum, sometimes he says valuable stuff, sometimes he's a bit of a windbag. Take it all with a grain of salt, but you show your own arrogance when you judge an entire nation on the actions of a few, especially anecdotal evidence.
quote:Originally posted by LeoJ: Education is free, as in america, but the problem is that in america it sucks.
Lots of stuff to post in this thread, but I'll focus in on this one.
A majority of the top 50 universities in the world are in the United States. Thousands come from all over the world to study in America. If you want to make such a RIDICULOUSLY blanket statement like that, at least try and back it up.
I think you are trying to refer to everything except for higher education. And while I'll admit that our education system, below the college level, could use some work, it is far from sucking.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Lyrhawn, can you tell me where exactly in his post Tzadik says that it is his opinion of all Americans? I must have missed it.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
"Well, LeoJ, saying that education sucks in America is kind of an unfair statement. Have you ever been to an American school and been educated there? What are you comparing it too? All these scores you see Americans getting on tests are all averages. Does it mean every person in America is as intelligent as this test? No. There are a lot of intelligent people in America. There are also a lot of dumb people. In those kinds of tests, they put a person who gets strait A's, in the same group as a person who gets strait F's. Is this an accurate way to judge the intelligence of a nation? No, it is not. "
Don't confuse smart people with good education. Some people are naturally brilliant. Some people are following too easy of a curriculum.
Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Oh please, have you heard France's national anthem? It's a song about the citizens rising up and "let impure blood soak the furrows." Their anthem is ten times more militaristic than ours. Besides, subsequent verses of the Star Spangled Banner temper the song as a whole I think. And I don't think it's a glorification of militarism, it's a poem/song about a battle in a war in defense of our country, what's wrong with that?
The question raised wasn't whether our national anthem was more militaristic than that of other countries. It was a question of whether the fact that we sing it for every public occasion is an expression of patriotism (i.e. love of our people, land and culture) or an expression of Nationalism (i.e. loyalty to our government and army).
I always though the third vs
quote:And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion, A home and a country should leave us no more! Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight and the gloom of the grave
was even more militaristic than the first.
And although the French National anthem is bloody and gruesome, they don't singing it all the time. I've been in France on Bastille day and been to the reenactments of the revolution -- and still never heard anyone sing La Marseillaise.
Extreme Nationalism in Germany was the cause of WWII, which illustrates the evils that can come from excessive nationalism rather than justifying it. Germans today recognize that and are ashamed of their past, which is why Germany today has one of the most anti-nationalistic cultures around.
Lets hope the USA won't have to go through what Germany went through to learn the same lesson.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
One of my Canadian friends once complained to me that "Americans tend to forget that their are 2 countries in North America".
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: One of my Canadian friends once complained to me that "Americans tend to forget that their are 2 countries in North America".
How much do the word really matter to people? I hate to say it, but I don't think they matter much. Everyone knows the words (sadly, ALMOST everyone knows the words) to the anthem, but I'm betting the majority don't. And they don't care. They just know that singing the song means they are celebrating America. Plus the whole anthem, flag waving thing is a lot more of a red state thing than a blue state thing, which is an issue I don't recall you addressing yet.
American "arrogance" in the sense of over-patriotism/over-nationalism isn't the same throughout the entire country. All 300 million Americans aren't the same. I'm proud of our form of government, though not this particular administration. I'm proud of our constitution and I support the military. The thing about that is, that love of the military and so on and so forth has always been interwoven into the culture, they aren't always mutually exclusive.
But people also love the land, and love a culture of freedom and democracy that many Americans consider to be part of the fabric of American culture. I think before you can decide the difference between nationalism and patriotism, you need to define what each entails for America. Good luck with that.
As for the anthem, you made a point of it, and I think it's a moot one. A lot of the world's anthems are militaristic, and the frequency with which Americans sing the anthem doesn't matter. At least I don't think it does.
I don't see America going to the lengths that German nationalism went to. Apparently part of the fold of German nationalism was racism, genocide and conquest. America doesn't have the stomach for it, and I don't think it's a part of our national identity.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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