posted
"16 is still to many really for team defenses. Yes you can have two per team, but even with two you can have a possibility of having two teams with bye weeks."
And we can always trade Ds to settle that problem, and if worse comes to worse, a team won't have a defense for a week. But chances are that won't even happen. And what about defensive players? If we have a problem with not enough starting offensive players, why will having defensive players fix that?
So far you're the only person who's said that you prefer this system. A few people so far seem to be in favor of switching (Me, Goody, and Kwea, I think). If other people don't start saying that they want defensive players and your scoring system, I think you should change it.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: And we can always trade Ds to settle that problem, and if worse comes to worse, a team won't have a defense for a week. But chances are that won't even happen. And what about defensive players? If we have a problem with not enough starting offensive players, why will having defensive players fix that?
Trading defenses is nice to talk about, but trades are hard to come by. And chances are having two defenses on a bye week will happen. It happened to multiple people last year (as I’ve already said) and this does fix that. Having a greater pool of players total to draft from will help with our league and the greater number of teams we have. It just makes sense to have more players to take from when you have more teams.
I’m willing to talk about scoring but I want to stick with the defensive players. I really think it’ll help and doing nothing just makes it just like last year. Which was ok, but really could have been better with these tweaks. By the way, did you play in last year’s league?
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
"Trading defenses is nice to talk about, but trades are hard to come by. And chances are having two defenses on a bye week will happen. It happened to multiple people last year (as I’ve already said) and this does fix that. Having a greater pool of players total to draft from will help with our league and the greater number of teams we have. It just makes sense to have more players to take from when you have more teams. "
I'm really not understanding the logic of adding defensive players. I don't see how it helps out our offensive players at all and gives us any more depth in offense. Sure, it adds more players, but it adds more positions as well. And I have no idea what defensive players will do good, other than trusting Yahoo's ranking, or when I should draft them.
I don't even know how this new scoring system will affect all of the offensive players and which ones benefit from the new system. I mean, when you have rushing getting a point for every 10 yards and receiving getting one for every 20 yards, considering RBs almost always get more yards than WRs and TEs, WRs will probably do almost nothing in comparison to RBs.
"I’m willing to talk about scoring but I want to stick with the defensive players."
Jay, I appreciate that you made the league for us and that you're the commisioner, and I'm sorry that I'm being a pain in the @#$, but you did name it the Hatrack Fantasy Football League. I'd keep my mouth shut if you said that you were making your own league and were inviting us to it, but since it's the official Hatrack league I think we should see what other team's think. Hopefully other people will start saying if they think we should have whole Ds or individual players and what we should do and if they like the new scoring system.
"By the way, did you play in last year’s league?"
Yeah, I had the same team name but I used a different screen name. I was The Foundation last year also.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Btw whatever happened to Shlomo and the league he sent up, I still owe him a lot of rips for going on and on about a Marlin dynasty after they won a few years back and suggesting I was wrong about the Marlins having no shot at making a dynasty nor at actually even making the playoffs the following year.
Defensive players have never been a part of the hatrack league. I dont particularly care one way or the other beyond not wanting to do the research since im involved in six money leagues anyway.
btw when's the draft date and has anyone decided whether it will be live or an auto draft?
Posts: 752 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Jay, you might consider two leagues one with defensive players for the keeners (I'm in), one without for more casual players. If the defensive players make it no fun for some people, then those people won't be having fun.
Posts: 675 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Now that we have 16 teams I think we should just have the draft already. I think 16 is enough. I hope you'll at least change the scoring system back to the standard Yahoo one before we draft.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Well, no, we have said all along that the draft would be the last week in Aug and now have said it would be set on the 27th. This allows for a week before the season starts and allows a few weeks of preseason.
I’m willing to tweak the scoring a little, but don’t think we should go back to just a yahoo standard. What’s wrong with giving it the ol college try?
We still have 4 spots left and people should still feel welcome to join. It’s going to be fine in the end and a ton of fun.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm keeping an open mind about the defense thing in this league. I don't like it, but I didn't like the setup last year either (specifically, twenty teams was way too many - twelve is about right), and yet I won. If this year ends in a similar result, I'll be fine with it.
Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Do we have any new players this year? Team D is usually easier for them to manage. I usually tweak the scoring in the leagues I commish to allow QBs to roughly match RBs in production, other than that I like the standard scoring. Willing to try whatever, though.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I like TheTick's idea for scoring. I still think that rushing getting a point for every 10 yards and receiving getting one for every 20 is ridiculous. A top RB can basically score as much as any top two WRs with that. I think rushing should get one for every 15 yards and recieving should get one for every 10. That should balance out the difference. And QBs should be given an advantage so they can be as good as RBs.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
So I asked my buddy Steve about his league and some of the scoring rationales, since that was what I based this league on.. Not to mention bugged him about when he would be getting his league up. Anyway, here’s his response:
quote:
I think it's getting better every year, but it's still not perfect. But it's far more perfect than yahoo's.
So the rb's get a point for every ten yards because they lose .25 for every carry.
So, if a running back averages 4 yards per carry:
they get (4 * .1) points for the rush, but lose .25 for the carry = +.15
That's hardly overvaluing a running back.
So a normal "good" day for a running back may be 22 rushes for 115 yards. That's:
(115 * .1) + (22 * -.25) = 11.5 - 5.5 = 6
If a receiver catches 6 passes for 100 yards (a good day for a receiver), then:
(100 * .05) + (6 * .25) = 5 + 1.5 = 6.5
Actually, receivers are a little overvalued in my leauge, and that's a change I'm going to make.
I can try to explain any other rationales behind my choices if you'd like. But this is a very good system, and most people who complain about it simply haven't really examined it. I tried to compensate and make rb, wr and qb as even as possible. It's not an exact science, but it's pretty good.
BTW, defensive teams are crap. You can't tweak your players, you are stuck if you play a good offensive team and you are penalized for special team and offensive mistakes (for example, a quarterback loses a fumble and the defense returns it for a touchdown - the OFFENSE then costs the DEFENSE a td, hence the defense is penalized).
posted
Ok, got those tweaks in. I don’t think I had the negative in for the rush attempts. That could have been a problem. So….. what do you think now? Looking pretty good?
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Draft will be set Sunday. Have your prerankings all ready by then. Still a few spots left if you want to get in. Also, any more tweaks we want have to be done before the draft. I hope I haven’t upset anyone with wanting to keep defensive players. I apologize if I have. Just trying to have a better league then last year’s.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I don't know if this has been covered or not, but was the playoffs for the top 4 teams last year as well? With the number of teams involved would 6 or 8 be better or is it designed so that the best of the best only make it in?
Posts: 137 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I think having 8 teams would be good. I don't like having the top 2 teams getting a bye week in the playoffs. I think giving them a better draw is fair enough.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Seems the defensive rankings went by the “projected rankings” which where they get those from is probably from some yahoo crystal ball they keep in the back room.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Sopwith, I'll deal you Jay Feely or Joe Nedney, if you want either.
Man, my offense is stacked. Jake Delhomme, Chad Johnson, Plaxico Burress, Carnell Williams, Corey Dillon, and Chris Cooley. I have no idea about the defensive players I have, though the projected stats don't look too good for them. That's going to be a headache for me if I want to take the time to figure it out.
And how in the world did LT drop to #6! Wow, that's a steal if I've ever seen one.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Jay, what exactly were you thinking drafting Tiki over LJ and LT? Does your whacky scoring system give some huge benefit to Tiki and other players that you didn't tell us about?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Which team are you? I got the 15th pick and I'm very happy with Carnell Williams. I think he's a very decent RB and I'm happy I got Corey Dillon and Plaxico Burress with the 47th and 50th picks. I think those two were steals that late.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Yeah, is there any way to view the round by round picks? I haven't done the yahoo league before.
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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You should do what I do. One of the reasons I finish among the top 2-3 in the regular season year after year (before my annual choke job in the playoffs, though this past year I lost due to injuries and teams resting players late in the season (lost a starting elite tailback and my starting QB for the title game)is that i stack my prerankings ahead of time. I have 25-30 of my top 40 preranked players as running backs. This insures that year after year I always have two strong running backs, which is nearly impossible in 20 team leagues. I follow that up by filling the next 20-30 slots with WR's so I dont end up with scrubs at WR. There are enough QB's around so that I'll be fine at QB if I have none preranked higher than about 50 or 60 so for the fifth consecutive year I've landed an offense that was stacked across the board.
I also took advantage of crazy issues with IDP's, and used my brothers knowledge (forget the DL, hit DBs hard) to scavenge for players at D and DB (which fill four of the six IDP positions). This insured that in landing Vasher, Roy Williams, Ronde Barber and Adam Archuleta, I managed to get a collection of IDP's 3 of 4 who rank in the top 15 overall among DB's (Barber-2nd, Williams 5th, and Archuleta 15th)and a fourth whose a top 50 ranked IDP.
My Starting Lineup:
QB: Cardinals Passing Game (Warner/Leinart) Hugely productive last year, hopefully this year. RB: S. Jackson-looks like a 1400 yard back to me minimum.
RB: W. McGahee/F. Gore-the former is a 1300 yard back, the latter has plenty of upside.
WR: R. Wayne: Could surpass M. Harrison this year.
WR: Roy Williams-Martz Offense probably means either mediocre numbers because Roy will never get it, or off the hook #'s.
WR: D. Mason: He's playing with McNair, he produced huge numbers with the garbage that was Boller et all, so I can only imagine Titans like numbers could be on the horizon, as in 80+ for 1150+, and 6+ TD's.
TE: B. Troupe: My fav sleeper TE this year. Caught 55 balls last year despite being behind at best a fourth option in the offense for 2/3's of the season. Should be better this eyar.
The rest of my bench: Brad Johnson-Vikings passing attack, nothing special but he produced solid #'s a year ago.
Roddy White-Atlanta's #1 WR, has spent entire offseason training to show that he can be their best WR since whatshisname in the nineties.
Arnaz Battle-Can never stay healthy however when he does, he's a lock for 5 receptions a game.
D. Henderson-Trade of Stallworth makes him #2 WR.
IDP's Roy Williams-Top 5 ranked DB
Ronde Barber-Top 2 ranked DB
A. Archuleta-Ranked in top 50 overall, and top 15 at DB, but I think he'll produce sick #'s under Greg Williams, will be used to blitz like crazy.
N. Vasher-scored loads of TD's and generated plenty of TO's last year for bears.
my DL IDP's are starters who produce iffy #'s at best, I figure my DB's will more than make up for them.
As for the rest of the teams:
Fellow contenders in my view are Zealots, Foundation, Whipsmart, Civic Mindend and Goody's. Foundation lacks IDP strength, Whipsmart has no proven WR's (though nearly all have upside) Goody's lacks any kind of talent at IDP, Civic Minded has a lot of strength but does have worries at RB (relying on Green and Bush for help is iffy, Packers look awful and Bush wont get enough touches) and QB, lastly Sopwith has tremendous IDP's and LT2 and that might be enough to make the playoffs, Ketchup has great Defense as well and Carson Palmer but is that enough? Lastly Ender has nothing at IDP, and that could kill him, particularly if Rhodes loses out to Addai.
Should be interesting to see what happens, barring major injury I shouldn't have much trouble making the playoffs, and I believe the same for Zealots, Whismart, Goody's, Civic Minded and probably Foundation. The rest? Not sure. Good luck all. Will listen to offers btw.
Posts: 752 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I look forward to playing you in week 9 when both of us are only missing our starting QBs (and my backup RB but hopefully I won't need him). Battle of the backup QBs.
"Whipsmart has no proven WR's"
*Scratches head* Steve Smith isn't a proven WR?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Can someone explain to me why the computer drafted a guy like Marcus Robinson, who isn't even listed in the top 6 recievers of the Vikings depth chart when there are guys like Samie Paker, Dennis Northcut, Marty Booker, and Reche Caldwell who are all starting recievers? I don't understand.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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A. Archuleta-Ranked in top 50 overall, and top 15 at DB, but I think he'll produce sick #'s under Greg Williams, will be used to blitz like crazy."
You picked 2 of the top 5 DBs off the free agency??? And I don't even see how Archuleta got on your team, I don't see him on your drafting results or on the recent transactions. My head is going to asplode if someone doesn't start explaining what's going on. Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
And now I see that Muhsin Muhammad was drafted in the first round and the second reciever overall. I think I'm going to restart my computer and hope that all these things will change when I turn it back on.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
You're not imagining things. I preranked Moose. I just have a feeling about him....especially if Lovie gets smart and starts Griese instead of Grossman.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Always prerank. There's no chance in hell of competing in this if you rely on yahoo to draft for you with no prerankings. As for those DB's, immediately after the draft, knowing I'd only managed to do prerankings for about 70 players (normally I do about 250, but I am running 10 different teams in money leagues this year and just didn't have the time), I moved straight to the IDP's to see if other people got lazy with that and didn't look into it aggressively or prerank any of it. It looked like that was the case when it came to DB's. I also figured that few people would have rankings around telling them what is actually good in terms of IDP's, I do (I pay for online services in addition to mags, and bull sessions I have with friends on the stuff and online forums), so I was able to sniff out the free agents as a few others were able too.
As to yahoo's idiotic ranking system. Your guess is as good as mine, there appears to be little rhyme or reason to many of the things it does so make sure you never have to rely upon it.
No worries, I'll choke this season like I always do, last year I think I lead in total points over the next best team by an absolute ton going into the playoffs but it didnt matter, my teams always find a way to lose title games.
Posts: 752 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I figured that there'd be some serious activity in picking offensive players early with a league this large. IDPs, however, might be a place where I could make some early jumps.
Gamble and Lucas are a great pair of DBs, and Ed Reed was a lucky pull for me. Rucker should have a great year with Carolina's massive DTs and Julius Peppers getting so much attention. Morgan is a tackling machine and Will Witherspoon should shine with the Rams.
Is it going to be worth the gamble? No way of telling right now. Tomlinson was a wonderful gift and I'm pretty surprised that I could pick up Drew Brees in what, the 12th round? I'm a little shaky in WRs, but that could turn out okay.
I'm looking forward to see how this all shakes out. And thanks for a very generous trade offer of a kicker to me (you know who you are), but I was able to pick up NE's new one on the waiver wire. Rookie kickers... that's a nervous-making thing.
Good luck to all!
Posts: 45 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
"There's no chance in hell of competing in this if you rely on yahoo to draft for you with no prerankings."
Actually, I won last year after not touching the pre-rankings. What I do, though, is constantly scavenge the free agents throughout the season. There are always a ton of players that come out of nowhere partway through the season, and as soon as I hear about them, I pick them up, even if it's only for a couple of weeks to replace an injured player.
Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
This is the first time I've ever preranked, and it was only the one player cause I really wanted him. Last year I came in 3rd (I think) in the Hatrack league and won my SKEMERs league. Considering I don't know much of anythign to start with, I think i did pretty well... Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Yeah, my preranking actually worked really well, I got almost every player I was relly looking to get. Probably cause I wasn't going for anyone really hot except for Manning and TO.
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Yeah, didn't get TO but I am really happy with what I got except for one hurt player oh well, free agents?
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Silent E: "There's no chance in hell of competing in this if you rely on yahoo to draft for you with no prerankings."
Actually, I won last year after not touching the pre-rankings. What I do, though, is constantly scavenge the free agents throughout the season. There are always a ton of players that come out of nowhere partway through the season, and as soon as I hear about them, I pick them up, even if it's only for a couple of weeks to replace an injured player.
It's worth remembering that I lead that league by a country mile in ppg and total points the entire season, the true test of what a good team is in my view (no luck involved, you pick them, they produce over the long haul of a season and you find out how wise you were, as opposed to getting lucky, or not come the playoffs which is a huge determining factor in who actually wins title games especially in leagues that foolishly hold title games in week 17), along with actually winning the damn thing. The problem? In December I lost several key starters due to "resting them for the playoffs situations" and due to injury and that thoroughly reinforced the wisdom of calling my squad "The Choking Paradigm" five months before they actually fullfilled the prophetic gloss in spectacularly awful fashion. Still it was a great performance by your side as well, and a great team and management job it was.
Good point on add/drops, great teams always make full use of the waiver wire, sometimes it doesn't help too much, but every year there are at bare minimum 2-3 stars that can be landed via the waiver wire and usually more.
posted
I'm worried now because it doesn't look like Carnell Williams and Corey Dillon do well under this scoring system. I'm looking at last year's total fantasy points, which I'm assuming is using our current scoring system, and my backs had less total points than guys like Tatum Bell, Domanick Davis, and Mcgahee. Under the projected stats for this year, which I guess is also projecting it under how our scoring system is, Cadillac is under Kevin Jones. Dillon is all the way at the bottom of the first page. What is up with that? Does this system benefit certain kinds of rbs (e.g. runners who get alot of carries even if they have low yards per carry or runners who get few touches but have a high average, etc.)?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Personally, I'm a lil wonky on this scoring system. I'm willing to give it a try, but do we want, perhaps, an alternate league with standard rules as well?
Just a thought and no slight intended.
Posts: 45 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Sop, I had also considered the alt-league and would be interested if it gets off the ground.
And, uh, I also mean no offense. It would be interesting to have a head-to-head comparison of the scoring systems, for our own reference and for planning next year. Just another thought. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
we probably should put together a coherent idea of what we want to do next year in july/august so we're not rushed and we can all come up with something all of us are happy with. I was just interested in putting together a balanced team, and letting it go on autopilot while I work my money league teams (i have tons this year). But considering some of us have been playing together since as far back as at least '02 when i started and probably earlier, it's certainly worth coming up with a system we all can say works. I'd all suggest breaking down the league into 15-16 teams, as every year there seems to be 2-4 teams on autopilot.
Posts: 752 | Registered: Jul 2002
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