posted
Once you get your lawyer and delete this thread *hint hint*, I think you should ask the lawyer about the possibilites of charging her rent, half of utilities, etc. Heck, if you move out, you should be able to just cancel the utilities in your name. But talk to a lawyer first! And don't replace, you know, light bulbs and things. But lawyer FIRST.
One thing that struck me as interesting - you said she was on antidepressants. The doctor said "they couldn't possibly have had an effect yet" this may be true . . . but it may not. Because a high dose of antidepressants may have pushed her manic. Which fits with her being a completely different person. I suggest a second doctor's opinion, but I ALSO think you need to get a lawyer, consider moving out, moving her out, yada yada.
Posts: 471 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I'm very sorry Jason. At this point just see what the therapist does on the 2nd session (Its really only then you can see what direction he is going to take.) Did your wife commit to come to another session? At least that? That in of itself is not NOTHING. As a missionary if the people accepted no commitments but said I could come back and tell them more, that would be enough for me to visit one more time. At that point if they would still not commit to actually do anything I would stop visiting.
See how your wife handles this time of freedom, she will either sober up or go off the deep end. I am very sorry you have to endure this crap.
I also agree that you should take Dag's advice very seriously.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Yes, definitely ask your lawyer while you're filing for divorce if you should delete the thread.
Yes. Divorce her. You have tried to make this work and she has continually and maliciously hurt you. Stop hoping that she will see the error of her ways. Mourn for what she used to be, but do not hope for it to return.
Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I'm sorry things have continued in an unpleasant direction and I agree with everyone who has recommended seeing a lawyer for advice about how to handle a separation. I also agree that she has no right to force you to do anything (like leaving but still supporting her, etc.).
Since you are both named on the lease of your current home, something will need to change with the lease in light of the separation - the lawyer can best advise you as to what and how.
You could even see about terminating your lease early (with your wife paying the financial penalties, since she's the one driving the separation) and both of you finding new homes....
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Iudosti - That's what I was thinking: wonder if they could just get out of the lease and go from there with the 'trial separation'?
jasonepowell - I probably sound like a broken record, but the lawyer thing is a really good idea. Don't forget that all of our trials make us stronger once we've come through them. I hope you have a couple of 'real life' friends you're talking about this with, too. Hatrack is awesome (imho in the short time i've been here) but it doesn't really compare to the few good friends I can sit at the kitchen table and cry/yell/laugh/talk with...
Samarkand - Can too much antidepressant really make someone go manic? I'm not disputing, just asking.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I'm sorry things have turned out this way for you.
One more bit of advice I'd offer, is make sure you get your OWN lawyer. Some divorce lawyers will offer to do the entire proceedings, working for both parties. Don't believe it. You need a lawyer representing you, and only you.
I hope things work out for you. If your lawyer suggests you delete this thread, maybe you can ask if you can start a different one without mentioning specifics, just to get a place to talk about things. It's a tough road, but you'll make it through in one piece, and better off at the end.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Dag, do you have any advice on how to go about choosing a lawyer? When C & I were splitting up I just picked 5 at random out of the phone book and went and talked to them, and considered both their vibe and their rates in making my decision. That worked well enough for me, but I didn't need a particularly skilled lawyer since the dissolution was completely amicable.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I would ask lawyers I know, an option not available to most. Barring that, I'd do what you did, I think.
Unless you knew someone who had used a lawyer for the same type of case and was thrilled with the service.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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My intent was not to be too harsh--but to be realistic (as some have noted).
So, you are only leasing your apartment? So, can you leave, and have your name taken off the lease? Or, if after you are separated, can you do that?
My concern with YOU leaving had been a material/financial one, since the house would have been a major asset. However, if it's leased, then your risk is short-term. She could trash it, or fail to make payments on it.
So, leave, and stop paying it. See what you can do to separate yourself financially from mer (her debts).
But, get an attorney. Life is not fair, and your marriage is over.
Tristan said, "But if you wish her to come back to you eventually..." To which I say NO, NO, NO. She will never come back, and when you have regained your senses, you will realize that you don't want her back.
There is absolutely no sensible path of recovery for your marriage, unless you would like to have your testicles cut off and handed to her. Period.
I am sorry to be so blunt. But the marriage is dead, Jim. You need a good, personal therapist to help grieve, and you need a good lawyer, immediately, to keep from getting screwed over--either by your STBX wife or your own noble intentions.
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:There is absolutely no sensible path of recovery for your marriage
Whoa, there. Hold up. I see a lot of people telling you to "cut your losses" and run.
These people are, IMO, catastrophically misguided. They may be right. But the odds are, frankly, that they're not married.
Yeah, things look bleak right now; she's off doing her own thing for whatever reason, and she's hurt you badly. But unless you believe, like Boothby apparently does, that people cannot atone and be forgiven for their mistakes, it's more than a little premature to call your marriage "dead" after less than a week of deliberation.
You may someday decide to give up on your vows; you may someday decide that she's given up on your vows. But until that's clear, I wouldn't consider even for one moment taking Boothby's sulfurous "advice" seriously; it's pure poison.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I agree with Tom. Going to see a lawyer now is NOT a statement that you have given up hope on the marriage.
Rather, it is a statement that the marriage might end - a possibility that must be recognized here - and that certain things should be done.
If nothing else, having a realistic understanding of the divorce process is absolutely necessary to making an informed decision about whether you should obtain one.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have been talking to people for months about this very subject. Obviously, I'm no expert. To be honest, since every case is different, there are no experts. But there are so many paths to divorce, and so few paths back. All the paths back are "paved" with trust.
There's no trust left. There's no respect. There's no love (from her, at least). She's not mistaking Jason for a hat. She's made her decision.
Here's the question: Do you want to be married to that?
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Do you KNOW there's no love? You aren't psychic. There are people who've gotten divorced and MARRIED OTHER PEOPLE, then divorced the other people and remarried each other. And they love each other very much.
I know that she no longer loves him. Don't you? Or, if she does, its a lousy sort of love that no person in their right mind would want.
And that divorced/married/remarried thing? Sure there are people who have done that. At last count, there are six. And they're all screwed up.
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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People do dumb crap even when they love someone. You can't just arbitrarily dub people screwed up. You make some pretty harsh decisions about love.
quote:I know that she no longer loves him. Don't you?
I don't see evidence of that. It's a horrible possibility, but I think it's even more horrible to take it as a given.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Man - I don't really KNOW either of them, so I don't know who loves who or not... All I know is one side of the story that I've read about here... I'm just offering my thoughts to the person who's looking for some companionship on his journey, not trying to make his decisions for him.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cmc: Samarkand - Can too much antidepressant really make someone go manic? I'm not disputing, just asking.
Briefly, certain antidepressants are known for tending to drive bipolar (manic-drepressive) persons into mania. It can be a trigger. And since people with bipolar disorder may just not yet have had their first mainc episode (instead, perhaps have only manifested depression), it is a real risk in that sort of pharmacological therapy.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I know of marriages which survived far worse behavior by one spouse. Far, far worse, and they are thankful every day that the other spouse didn't give up.
I know more that didn't recover , but not one of those spouses regretted trying after such behavior.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I would say it's best to try, even if for nothing more than to be able to honestly tell yourself that you did everything you could to make it work, and it wasn't your fault. Sometimes, you need a little something to cling to.
At the same time, don't get taken to the cleaners.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I give this marriage an 'F'. You seem to be saying, "Settle for a 'D'." I say that no one should settle for less than a "B".
I think the likelihood is far greater that Jason will regret staying, vs. how much he will regret leaving.
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I've refrained from posting in this thread but have been interested/mindful of jason. I hope for the best for you.
I have a friend who is going through some tough marital issues and I've been her sounding board. The last thing she wants is to be told what to do and that there is that there's no hope. Yes, I said it once and that's it. So IMO Boothby, I think your point has been made and it's time stop ripping on a situation that isn't yours as feelings in situations like this can be sensitive/tender/any other careful adjective you choose to put here.
Good luck jason, we care about you.
Posts: 697 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Survived? Who wants a marriage that "survived"?
Yeah, whoever said anything about marriage being work? If you hit a bump, it means it's not meant to be and you should bail.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Survived? Who wants a marriage that "survived"?
Yeah, whoever said anything about marriage being work? If you hit a bump, it means it's not meant to be and you should bail.
I'm not sure I would call this a "bump."
I don't think he should be making any life-altering decisions now, but I do think it's essentially that he find a lawyer.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:But his STBX-wife has taken on some pretty extreme and destructve behaviors.
And yet, even in trying to backpedal, you persist in making the assumption that divorce is inevitable, and that someone who has taken on extreme and destructive behavior cannot be helped.
These assumptions are in fact what are irritating people.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
By the way, the whole "frog sitting passively by as the water temperature rises to the boiling point" thing? It's a myth.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I'm not going to apologize for being extreme here. I think it's appropriate.
Sure, there are people talking about this situation as if Jason's wife's behavior is nothing more than a speed bump in the happy road of wedded bliss.
I see is more as she's grabbed the wheel, tromped the gas pedal, and has driven face-first into the nearest concrete bridge abutment.
Sometimes it does pay to stay and fight for the marriage. I'm staying in and fighting for mine, even as we speak. Sometimes, though, you have to save yourself, and cut-and-run. This is more like Jason's marriage.
Jason does not have any choice right now that will lead to his immediate happiness. I believe that the direction I have provided him will lead to more happiness, sooner. Either way, it's a hell of a tough road, whichever path he takes.
Regardless, he MUST (are you listening, Jason?), MUST get himself a lawyer IMMEDIATELY.
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Boothby171: Survived? Who wants a marriage that "survived"?
Most marriages have to survive SOMETHING at some point. Be it infidelity, dishonesty, serious physical or mental illness, the extra strain of having a child, changes in physical appearance, loss of job, financial hardship, hurricane Katrina...
I don't understand how you, being married, can think that big hard issues are automatically run away divorce time. All of these things jason is talking about have JUST HAPPENED. They haven't been going on since the beginning of the marriage. They are very recent developments, and I don't think ending a marriage is a decision that should be made on a whim.
quote:Originally posted by Boothby171: Survived? Who wants a marriage that "survived"?
How about thrived?
My parents nearly divorced when I was still a baby. They stuck it out, and their marriage has thrived since then. They are still quite happily married today, and they celebrated their twenty-seventh anniversary earlier this year.
I see nothing wrong with a marriage that "survived." What I do see, however, is a lot of good.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Glad to hear that your parents made their marriage work.
If I may ask--what was the concern that they almost divorced over?
And, by "survived", I meant to imply "survived by the skin of it's teeth," or "survived...and nothing more."
If it can survive, and later thrive, then that's (obviously) great. But if it barely makes it, and survives but is near death for the rest of its duration...no one wants that.
The level of disrespect that Jason's wife has shown him--and their marriage, is horrendous. I cannopt imagine how she can recover from that, and how she can recover his trust ever again. They have no children. He should strongly consider srtarting over with someone new.
In my humble opinion.
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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First, I have begun the process of finding an attorney - I'm lucky enough to know some people who are well connected and it won't take long. Second, my wife and I have already sort of agreed on what's going to happen in the event of separation with intent to divorce (in VA, you have to be separated for at least 6 months with a legal separation agreement, or 1 year without before you can file for divorce), so at least she's understanding that there are serious consequences to her actions. So far, things have been reasonably amicable on that score, so that shows some maturity at least.
As far as this being a "bump" or not, my wife and I have been through many a bad thing. We've been near bankruptcy twice, and she's had cancer, gall bladder removal, ulcers in her intestine so bad they had to remove a large section of it (whilst being so painful she spent 4 months out of work), appendicitis, etc. None of those things, while incredibly difficult for both of us, ever changed our relationship.
It's been very difficult to realize that part of the issue may be the fact that she's had a horrible 5 years of medical problems, and she's finally feeling healthier and ready to get on with her life; and that she may include me and our marriage as part of all the misery she wants to forget. I hate that possibility, because it punishes me for sticking through everything with her, but truth is truth - if that's what it is, that's what it is.
Thanks again for all the advice and thoughts everyone, the various perspectives that I keep seeing are very helpful to me in terms of helping understand all the options and considering things in different ways. I would certainly be much worse off at this point had I not posted here and gotten the incredible amount of advice and support that you have all given. Thank you.
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Boothby171: If it can survive, and later thrive, then that's (obviously) great. But if it barely makes it, and survives but is near death for the rest of its duration...no one wants that.
And do you have the magic crystal ball that can tell you which one of those two the marriage will end up being?
I don't think that big issues are just "run away divorce time."
Not all of them. But some of them are.
Some infidelities are recoverable. But an in-your-face, "Screw you, I'm taking on as many lovers as I can fit!" sort of infidelity...I'd have to say abandon ship.
In my marriage, I've fought through some very serious issues, including some that most would have run away from. Look up "Constructive Abandonment." I'm more than familiar enough with "degree".
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I don't know what the concern was, but I don't think it was as severe as the problem here. I'm not saying that I'm sure that Jason and his wife can pull through and make their relationship work, but I do strongly believe that they should do everything in their power to try.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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, but not one of those spouses regretted trying after such behavior.
