posted
Looking back on some old, rather scary, topics of a political nature (mostly involving the Middle East and/or judicial killings), I think I have found a motto for Hatrack Conservatives, with apologies to Shakespeare:
quote:I am the scourge of God sent to punish the people of God for their sins
Of, course, we Liberals also have a motto, but it is not nearly as cool sounding:
quote:Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions can be founded only on the common utility. The goal of any political association is the conservation of the natural and imprescriptible rights of man. These rights are liberty, property, safety and resistance against oppression.
The Marquis de La Fayette just didn't have Shakespeare's gift, shame really.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Do you really believe that the conservatives on this board are all arriving at that stance based on religious convictions? I think you'd be wrong to believe that.
If you think that the conservatives here (as a group) believe that people who don't think as they do deserve to punished, I think you're wrong again.
You also seem to imply that Conservatives here, as a group, are not interested in rights and freedoms. That seems to be a singularly mistaken impression.
Now, finally, you try to say that liberals here all hold to a unified view of what it means to be free and have equal rights. I'd venture to say that's also incorrect.
In brief, there's not a single correct utterance in your post, near as I can detect.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
What exactly do you know about Lafayette? Never mind, its a matter of historical perspective which I won't get into here. Regardless, your post is smug and condescending and annoying. Perhaps state the purpose of this thread (other than inciting flaming)?
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Do you really believe that the conservatives on this board are all arriving at that stance based on religious conviction
Everyone's thoughts are based on religion, some people just have different religions. Nietzsche just replaced God with the übermensch.
quote: You also seem to imply that Conservatives here, as a group, are not interested in rights and freedoms
Conservatives believe in certain rights to be sure, mostly economic rights, but Conservatism is by its very nature less inclined to liberty than Liberalism. Hence their names.
quote: You try to say that liberals here all hold to a unified view of what it means to be free and have equal rights
To a very real extent, they do. Almost all Liberals would cite Voltaire, Locke, Mill and others as their political role models. Economically it is much more complex based on the disagreement over Keynsianism that is a major divide in Liberalism.
There are, of course, not very many Liberals around compared to Conservatives. The Democratic and Republican parties of the U.S. both take mostly Conservative stances (the Republicans more so, but the Democrats have a strong Conservative element, particularly in the so called "rust belt.") Only in Canada has a Liberal party won an election in recent memory. Of course, the ruling Spanish Socialists have adopted many Liberal ideas.
Conservative ideology is based on power, generally marketed as “law and order,” the traditional rallying cry of Conservative parties. Liberals don’t offer such marketable sentiments, and generally appeal primarily or exclusively to the university-educate middle classes. The bigger the Middle-class and the higher level of education, the more likely a Liberal government is to succeed.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
As far as I know, Liberalism and Conservatism are political and philosophical movements.
"you insulted people here"
I have begun to take Marcus Aurelius's advice in Meditations seriously
quote: Empty pomp; stage plays; flocks of sheep and herds of cows; mock battles; a bone flung to lap-dogs; a breadcrumb tossed into a fishpond; the ceaseless toil of ants bearing their burdens; the flight of frightened mice; puppets dancing on their strings — such is life. Your job is to take pleasure amidst it all with a mild manner and without condescension. Bear in mind that the measure of a man is the worth of the things he cares about.
I admit to being rude, but I have posted this after over a year of trying to discuss politics and philosophy with Conservatives, whom I have found invariably fall into cyncicism and generally express a frightening desire for violence.
Most of these people are otherwise normal and good, but they cannot discuss politics without garbing either the Bible or Ayn Rand and screaming about "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" or some similar ideal. I have learnt that Conservatism is debasing to humanity and that it induces a degree of hatred which is fearsome to behold.
Liberals love humanity, so do Leftists in all their misguided idealism.
I had never before seen the degrees of racism and other hatred which I encountered when I started discussing politics with Conservatives.
I refuse to believe that strength is the highest ideal, and thus I can never be a Conservative. I believe in human goodness, thus I can never be a Conservative. I believe in the primacy of the individual over the state, thus I can never be a Conservative. I believe in the rights of man as set down during the Enlightenment by thinkers such as Voltaire, thus I remain a Liberal.
May God have mercy on humanity for it has had none on itself.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Pel, I have to agree with the others on this board. I fail to see what it is you wish to discuss. It's been rather clear to me over my time here that the conservatives on this forum are not quite so archetypal as Javert and to lump any subscriber of a political ideology into such a archetype is a gross disservice to them.
Now, I've had frustrating conversations with conservatives too, but the conservatives on this site have always seemed open to discussion. So I don't understand what you might hope to achieve other than provoke emotional responses out of people. Sam.
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Every time I have discussed politics with a Conservative, I have had the impression that what they truly were saying was:
"Were that I had a machine gun to kill the unworthy Arabs/Mexicans/homosexuals/poor people/Liberals."
Bullshit.
I know quite a few conservatives on this board and I know this is not even an impression they give. I know that you have had discourse with these same people and I know that you are not stupid enough to have gleaned this "impression" from them either. In short, you are lying.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I know what is said about me and those who hold similar ideals and think similar thoughts, that we are but madmen tilting at windmills.
Actually people mostly just say you're annoying and rude. It has nothing to do with your beliefs, and everything to do with how you present them.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Being wrong is its own punishment, letting people in the wrong drag you along with them is folly...
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Pel, shut up.
Amen. I don't recommend that anyone invest much time in this topic, however. Pelegius's initial post is so utterly lame, and so many of us are so utterly sick of it, that we'll point out how dumb the post is, and Pelegius will, as usual, just delete the thread.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I know what is said about me and those who hold similar ideals and think similar thoughts, that we are but madmen tilting at windmills.
Actually people mostly just say you're annoying and rude. It has nothing to do with your beliefs, and everything to do with how you present them.
I say Pelegius is a brat. Probably an upper middle class spoiled brat, but a brat one way or the other. Pel, you need a spanking more than you need any attention. Grow up already.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I'm a liberal, and I don't agree with anything that you're saying. I think you're making broad generalizations about people who make it a point to be considerate and intelligent in their discussions. I have never seen any of the comments you claim to be "typical" of conservatives.
I also agree with blacwolve. I think you've just being incredibly rude and lumping people into your narrow-minded view of conservatives. They are not the enemy, but merely people with a different point of view.
Posts: 1789 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Pelegius, if you would not like someone to start a thread entitled "Pelegius's Motto," then why do you think it's appropriate to start this thread?
And, if you would like someone to start such a thread, please, let us know. I have a few choice offerings that might be pertinent.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
What I like about snow is that it is pretty; walking home in the cold is a fell experience. Walking home in a snowstorm, though, is a story. You can anticipate the hot cocoa when you get home. As you stomp through the pristine snow, trampeling away its virgin-pure status, you feel like an etheral grace has briefly touched the earth.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Pel, let's put this in perspective: General Sax has posted in this thread, and he was not the least reasonable person posting in it.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Pel isn't going to hear anything anyone says here anyway, so why don't we talk about something else?
I love to eat clementines this time of year.
ETA: Oops! I'm such a slow typist. I started this post before Phanto said what I was trying to say, but much better than I did.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Projection: the attribution of one's own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety. (m-w.com)
--
Clementines are indeed wonderful. And I don't even like oranges or tangerines.
I bet I'd like clementine wedges dipped in chocolate even more.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Every time I have discussed politics with a Conservative, I have had the impression that what they truly were saying was:
"Were that I had a machine gun to kill the unworthy Arabs/Mexicans/homosexuals/poor people/Liberals."
Bullshit.
I know quite a few conservatives on this board and I know this is not even an impression they give. I know that you have had discourse with these same people and I know that you are not stupid enough to have gleaned this "impression" from them either. In short, you are lying.
You know, Karl, he might actually be telling the truth, but only because his actions severly limit who will actually talk to him about their beliefs.
I, for example, have never discussed with him my conservative views, and can't imagine ever doing so as long as he continues to act this way.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Pel's passionate, attention-starved, and likes people to think that he's smart. If he weren't so unbelievably immature he would just be annoying.
Pel - Your Marcus Aurelius quote says nothing about making an ass out of oneself in support of his beliefs. Probably because he knew that that isn't something a person who wants to be taken seriously does.
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Will B: Clementines are indeed wonderful. And I don't even like oranges or tangerines.
But clementines and tangerines taste almost the same. The only real difference I notice is the thinner skin. Oh, and no seeds instead of very few.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "Were that I had a machine gun to kill the unworthy Arabs/Mexicans/homosexuals/poor people/Liberals."
Would.
And you should know that our Liberals up here are "liberal" in name only, really. They're just a smidgin more liberal than the Conservatives. Our major political spectrum runs not A to Z but M to N.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
In about 20 years, once Pel gets over himself, and if he keeps reading and doesn't commit suicide or devolve into a blathering mess of unintelligible garble, he is going to make a fantastic writer.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Where does one obtain clementines? I've never seen them in grocery stores.
You need better grocery stores. We grow 'em here in California, and ship 'em throughout the US. Wikipedia tells me they are available in Europe, and I've had them in Israel (grown there, I believe) as well.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Uhh... did someone forget that rule about not feeding the trolls? Cause you know... that's just gonna make his head bloat until it's just about ready to expl... oh, carry on.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Where does one obtain clementines? I've never seen them in grocery stores.
You need better grocery stores. We grow 'em here in California, and ship 'em throughout the US. Wikipedia tells me they are available in Europe, and I've had them in Israel (grown there, I believe) as well.
I get them at the Jewel here in Chicago.
And the first cut on the classic album "Sippurei Poogy" includes the line:
וגם אוכל את הקליפות של קלמנטינות
Which is an indication of how common they are in Israel. Though in my experience, they tended to have green rinds, rather than orange ones. I suspect the ones we get here are artificially colored.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Though in my experience, they tended to have green rinds, rather than orange ones. I suspect the ones we get here are artificially colored.
Doubtful. I've seen them growing here -- orange. My guess is that they are a slightly different breed (I have a vague recollection that the Hebrew word is used not just for clementines, but for tangerines and tangelos as well -- Morfix seems to support that notion).
And apparently the farmers have sued the beekeepers, but I imagine it's rather difficult to keep the little buggers where you want 'em.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Never seen a green one before, even in the plantations. That's probably because I only notice them when they mature/visit my grandparents' place during that season.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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