posted
I have spent a year and a half here. In that time, I have accomplished little or nothing of worth. There were books I should have read, things I should have done, but instead I posted here.
What made me desire so much to devote such a substantial portion of my life to a community which had, at best, mixed feelings about my presence I can only surmise. Perhaps I believed that if could bear fardels here that I could withstand the tempests of time and the storms of the world.
Most probably, I desired the ability to express ideas which I could not express irl. I expressed them poorly here as well. Looking back over the years, my prose has moved closer to greatness, even if only as a man climbs nearer the sun by climbing a hill.
However, being a poor writer and rhetorician, I lacked the ability to argue convincingly even when I spoke the truth.
I named myself Pelegius because I fancied myself a heretic, and for a year and a half I have expressed heretical ideals. But I lack the strength to be a heretic, for I am not the stuff martyrs are made of.
It would be tempting for me to say that Hatrack failed me, but, in fact, I failed Hatrack. Were I of stronger character, perhaps things would have turned out better. But I am weak, and can no longer bear the role of the reed in the river of doubt.
As much as I have argued for the greatness of humanity against the large factions which believe it debased, I have begun to doubt, for I have seen much here which bodes poorly for this ideal.
I have naturally experienced political and religious opposition, but I could not have anticipated the degree of personal animosity that came even from those with whom I have had no quarrel.
Many shall doubtless be glad of my passing, as for myself, I am not sure I will be.
Please forgive the lack of eloquence in this farewell, but I cannot find the words in me.
posted
Oh, Pelegius, the thing is, we don't want a teacher, a martyr, a heretic, a blah-blah-blah. We just want people to talk with and interact with. And you never wanted to do that--you only wanted to preach at us. I'm 44, and I have my heroes, but among them are not high school kids who think they have all the answers. Not that I've never learned anything from anyone your age--quite the contrary. But generally what I learn from teenagers has to do with spirit, humility, and general goodness.
Hope you have a nice life and good friends.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
No one ever voluntarily leaves Hatrack. It takes a life-changing event to keep you away.
Have fun in the few weeks (days? hours? minutes?) before you check back for "just a couple of posts" and get hooked again. Hell, just starting a thread like this will only feed your desire to return to see what people have said.
No one who starts a goodbye thread ever leaves for good.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: Oh, Pelegius, the thing is, we don't want a teacher, a martyr, a heretic, a blah-blah-blah. We just want people to talk with and interact with. And you never wanted to do that--you only wanted to preach at us. I'm 44, and I have my heroes, but among them are not high school kids who think they have all the answers. Not that I've never learned anything from anyone your age--quite the contrary. But generally what I learn from teenagers has to do with spirit, humility, and general goodness.
Hope you have a nice life and good friends.
Excellent post.
Good luck, Pelegius. I don't agree with your stated assessment of yourself or of the other Hatrackers, but I wish you a good future.
(What the hell, I'll take the low road and say it: Any personal animosity you experienced here was merely people reflecting your frequent rudeness back at you. Doubtlessly there are better ways to respond to rudeness than with rudeness, but people are going to respond as comes naturally, and fighting fire with fire does come naturally for most of us. I know that in almost every negative interaction I ever had with you, if you look at my first post, it was an attempt to take you seriously and respond thoughtfully. I became more aggressive when I found your replies dismissive of me. This tendency of yours to dismiss others' views and others' knowledge and expertise can be seen in your post in this thread, where, as Uprooted noted, you talk about all the enlightenment you have to bring, but not of the possibility that it may be you in need of enlightenment as often as not.)
Whether you believe it or not, despite my occasional anger, I bear you no malice. When I get angry, I respond angrily. When someone demands my respect but does not treat me with respect in turn, I tend to get angry. But when it's over, it's over. I believe that you will outgrow the habits that make me annoyed with you. (I'm sorry that sounds condescending; I don't think it can be helped.) I believe that when that happens, you will find Hatrack a more rewarding experience.
(And, for what it's worth, I believe that growth will happen sooner if you do not run away from intellectual challenges such as the one posed by Hatrack.)
But if you need some time away to recharge and rethink, I understand and wish you well.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Who cares what others think? Just be strong inside yourself and be ready to grow. You got a great writing style at least and use awesome large words.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Pel, for what it's worth, it seems to me that the core of your views are right and should be screamed from the mountain top, and instead, you are out there crying in the wilderness, and it is too bad. It also seems to me that there is no need to end the thread in Latin. Jesus said the words in Hebrew, maybe, then had it translated to Greek, then Latin, and in the end, you could have said, "It's finished." I think you are stuck in a way of thinking that sets being obscure equal to being profound, and I don't think that's the case.
I also think you should keep doing exactly as you are doing, and soon enough, you'll do it better, and more convincingly, and with more insight and care and with such moral clarity that you won't have to rely on the obscurity as a crutch, and then even if you are never popular, which is ever a live threat, the whole of the world will be better for listening to you.
For college, have you thought about St. Johns?
Edit:
I also think that Moose locking down your last thread reflects his small mind. You were articulating some facet of American culture you see, and while I didn't agree everything you said or how you said it, locking the thread down because your ideas weren't fashionable or warm and fuzzy or "community-building in any respect," is indicative of how the Man keeps control. It's also the precursor to riots and terrorist actions.
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I have spent a year and a half here. In that time, I have accomplished little or nothing of worth.
I agree. But I wish for you that you might grow and mature and accomplish much of worth in the future.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Pelegius, it's good that you can leave this site if it isn't what you need right now.
It's also good that you can come back anytime if you want, under this name or another. People have often written "goodbye threads" and then come back later, either under the same or another assumed name (though the latter is often guessed at anyway).
So should you decide to return, you'd be in a long and honorable tradition -- no shame in that. And should you not return, well, HR will still be here, and you can always change your mind. Just do what's best for you, and that's all anyone can expect. Take care.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
For the record and in his defense, although the excellent Moose needs none, Papa Moose handled the thread exactly right and responsibly. Using Pel's thread as a chance to sideswipe the moderator is rude.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Go on a couple of dates, get out of the house, experience enough of life to realize it's not black and white, and let us know how it goes Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
*gets onto a Nobel Prize Fight with Nighthawk* Take THAT! and THAT! and THAT! And I got a bag fulla ammunition here!
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: For the record and in his defense, although the excellent Moose needs none, Papa Moose handled the thread exactly right and responsibly. Using Pel's thread as a chance to sideswipe the moderator is rude.
I agree, Papa Moose didn't lock the thread because of what Pel said, he locked it because of everyone else's (mine included) cruel reactions to what Pel said.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Sometimes I wonder if I could manage to get a thread locked, but then I remember that it's no way to get that Internet Nobel Peace Prize I've been saving up for.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Nothing anyone else posted was more cruel than what Pel originally posted in that thread. I don't know if it was lock-worthy or not, but it was certainly insulting.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Oh, I think Pel's original post was as self-righteous, wooly-headed, and wrong as almost anything I've ever seen posted on Hatrack, and that's really saying something.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Oh, I think Pel's original post was as self-righteous, wooly-headed, and wrong as almost anything I've ever seen posted on Hatrack, and that's really saying something.
Speaking of self-righteous...
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:What made me desire so much to devote such a substantial portion of my life to a community which had, at best, mixed feelings about my presence I can only surmise. Perhaps I believed that if could bear fardels here that I could withstand the tempests of time and the storms of the world.
You used surmise incorrectly and I'm thinking that using an archaic word that I've never encountered outside of Hamlet betrays a focus on other than respectful communication. Say "guess" and "burden". For one thing, it saves you from looking foolish when you misuse "big" words that you don't actually understand. For another, it actually sounds like you care about communicating with people.
The thing you need to understand is why you failed. You didn't fail becaue you lack the ability to write or argue well. You didn't fail because you lacked strength of character. You failed long before that. You failed in your goals, in what you were trying to do, and in how you approached Hatrack.
If you continue on the way you did here, you are going to keep failing in any community of any worth.
I never disliked you. But I think you are in serious need of a change and I don't really think you'll change until life kicks you in the nuts a few times and - and this is the important part - you understand why you are getting kicked in the nuts.
Pel, you've made frequent (and often incorrect) reference to the Enlightenment. I'd ask you to consider your own behavior in light of two of the main things the Enlightenment opposed. That is, asserting things are true without maing a solid case for this and the appealling to the authority of smart guys in books like the Scholastics did.
In your time here, I don't think I've seen you come out from these two things. Because of this, I've found most of what you had to say uninteresting. From my perspetive, your pattern seems to have been to assert some statement as true without supporting this assertion and then try to back it up by things other people said or believe (often bringing in things that were incorrect or irrelevant). I don't know that I've ever seen you make a cogent argument of your own.
You've got a lot of growing up to do, and it's going to be painful. I hope, eventually, something induces you to make this choice, instead of the much more comfortable, but ultimately empty and limiting one of playing the wronged martyr.
posted
I agree that the original post was horrible. I just don't think the original post alone would have prompted Papa Moose to lock the thread.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Regardless of Papa Moose's reasons, he was definitely correct to do so. Of all the people on this site that might deserve the label "small mind," Papa Moose is most definitely not one of them.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Pel: I echo the sentiment that while some of what you said I just plain disagreed with, I actually saw your posting style become more tolerable as the weeks went by. Even thought the use of latin for the subject seems to be a throwback to those days where pedantry dominated your posts, still it is sad to see you go and for the reasons you stated.
Please consider that you are always welcome back. You will be quite surprised that most of us, should you come back, will be quite willing to respond to your posts as they stand currently and not simply rehash things we may have said to you in your prior posts. You are not doomed to exile for eternity from hatrack, don't think for a second that you are. If you choose to leave, remember that I, and I do not think I am alone, never wished for you to leave.
I echo what Lisa said,
quote: But I wish for you that you might grow and mature and accomplish much of worth in the future.
posted
I still think getting a girlfriend and taking up a hobby or sporting activity that has nothing to do with ancient languages or cultures would do Pel a world of good.
Intentionally smashing your body into other people forcefully gives you a whole new perspective on things.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Pixiest: I'm sure there are other forums out there where Pel will thrive. Or perhaps you could offer your services and help fix him Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I don't know Pel well enough to know where he might find a girlfriend, but I do know that anybody can find someone with common interests. Maybe a nice girl will see in him what we don't have the opportunity to online, and will help bring out some less pedantic aspects of his personality Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I don't even mind as much if you treat Hatrack like an audience rather than a community. I don't think it's fitting with the spirit here but whatever, it's your choice.
However, if that's what you're going to do, take a page from the great orators you like to quote so much and know your audience. I'm not going to hop onto a serious philosophy forum and start talking about what the best condiments are to put on hot dogs (ketchup and relish, btw), you shouldn't be gumming up our generally casual conversational style with heavy rhetoric then act all surprised when it doesn't come off right.
I have a challenge for you. Spend a week and post here like what you imagine a regular high school teenage boy would post like, which I imagine is equidistant from what Blayne does and what you usually do. It'll either come off as relievingly understandable, or horribly condescending/patronizing, but we'll know for sure whether you are at least capable or not.
You word all your posts like the very stereotype of a stuffy social studies professor baiting a high brow philosophical debate. I know a lot of incredibly smart, well read people, who are capable of high level discussion and debate, and guess what, the majority of them are here at Hatrack, and none of them talk like that. Unless you were raised by Socrates, I don't for a moment believe you casually talk like that with your friends at school, so stop trying to play Aristotle, or Joan d'Arc, or whatever your historical guise of the week is and try playing Normal Human.
Apologies in advance if this comes off as a rather scathing rebuke, but your "woe is me" act, especially on the heels of your incredibly insulting post on Conservatives is over the top, and has convinced me you should be in Mordor pushing siege engines.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
One thing I've always respected about Pel is his courage to post. I usually stay silent even though I feel like I have something to say. He always tried to say something, even if it was sometimes misinformed or condescending.
Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen, and that's gotta be hard to deal with.
Another thing is that when we all tell him to "grow up", it's kind of impossible until he's away from home at college. At least that's how it was with me.
If Pel does read this, I'd say "Ask more questions"
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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