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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Whom say ye that I am? (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Whom say ye that I am?
Kwea
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I know, but I found out over there so I won't guess. I do remember you as that over here though.


If you want it as a sig, try taking just the last two lines. Just make sure you attribute it. [Wink] [Big Grin]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
What evidence do any of you have that I'm not?
Well, for one thing, your sister seems well-placed to confirm your claims. And yet she thinks you're a loony.

That said, I'm willing to bet the cost of a DNA test that you come up "human." [Smile]

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Rakeesh
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quote:
One thing that might be interesting...so far almost all the posters to this thread have assumed that I must be either lying, or insane. Is it really so hard to examine the third possibility, that I might be telling the truth? What evidence do any of you have that I'm not? I'd honestly be interested in finding out about it.
I'm sure you're either lying or deluded, but there's sure and then there's sure. I don't actually know you're wrong. Beyond a reasonable doubt, sure. But total, ironclad certainty? What way would I ever have to make such a statement? None.

But I generally make it a policy of mine to disbelieve things that appear as completely absurd as your claims do, when I have absolutely zero evidence that they're remotely accurate. And I have none, neither objective or subjective evidence. And I have quite a bit of subjective evidence that you are, in fact, either lying or deluded. One, there's what I know (admittedly little) of your biography. This knowledge, again with the qualifiers 'little' and 'uncertain' do not lead me to take your claims seriously. Two, there is your behavior in this very thread. Your claims and your behavior are inconsistent. I'm not going to go into details, because I don't wish to discuss the specifics of your deceptions/delusions.

You've offered no evidence that you are what you say, and there is subjective evidence that you are not aside from the claim's ridiculousness. The disbelief you're experiencing has nothing to do with our collective unwillingness to examine the possibilities, it has everything to do with your unwillingness to seriously give us an opportunity to examine the possibility.

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Survivor
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So...you know I can't possibly be telling the truth because...I can't possibly be telling the truth?

I wouldn't mind getting a DNA test, except that I dislike human doctors and have decided to kill many of them the next time any of them try anything on me. Besides, I'm not sure what a genetic test would establish. Only a few of my trans-human capabilities are genetic, after all. I wasn't under the impression that human science would be able to verify those capabilities by genetic testing, since it seems that you haven't encountered them on a significant scale before.

I do have tastier blood than humans, but I'm not about to offer samples;)

Anyway, things will be established fairly soon, one way or the other. Once my part in events becomes a little more obvious, there will be no lack of evidence, though it will not be the kind that any of you will like. In all honesty, I find some of the details distasteful as well. It's all for the best, though, so I shouldn't complain.

I think that the first line of Kwea's post is part of what brings out the irony. I wouldn't think of omitting it. But I would certainly want to make sure that nobody thought I was the originator of it. So I'll remember that if I ever do find a use for it.

You know, I've considered it carefully and I don't believe that most or even many of you genuinely disbelieve me. Certainly you don't want to believe me, I could have told you that much (I have more experience with humans that some of you seem to credit). And I can see that openly admitting you believe me would have social costs you aren't willing to incurr. But the active denials ring a little hollow. I think that you do believe me.

Which actually surprised me a little when I first noticed it. I had naturally expected that you would just shrug it off as a joke or a pose, which is the more typical human response. Only a few people even tried for that, and the laughter was quite...brittle.

Am I so terrible? Can't we play for a while, and enjoy what time remains to you? Will you hate me for what I must do unto your species? Ah, it's very sad. Very sad indeed. I suppose that once things get rolling you'll only get worse. But maybe not [Wink]

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Samprimary
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quote:
You know, I've considered it carefully and I don't believe that most or even many of you genuinely disbelieve me.
Sure thing, tiger. Whatever gets you through the day.
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kaioshin00
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You should change your name to vivor, and if you are knighted for your efforts (since you claim they are worthwile) you can be known as Sir Vivor.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
I think that you do believe me.
Richard, I waffle between believing that you're genuinely insane and merely pretending that you're insane to get a rise out of people. Either way, I still strongly recommend professional help.
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Rakeesh
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Survivor,

quote:
So...you know I can't possibly be telling the truth because...I can't possibly be telling the truth?
Since you weren't paying attention, I'll reiterate just one more time. I know you can't possibly be telling the truth because a) you have offered zero evidence* you are telling the truth, b) there is notable evidence* you aren't telling the truth, and c) I make it a policy to disbelieve outlandish, highly unusual, ridiculous claims, choose your qualifier, without some form of evidence* that's persuasive.

This is why I do not believe you. It was quite clear the first time I said it, and it's quite clear this time as well. I do not, and I very much doubt others do either, harbor any secret uncertainties about this. This is also why, as I've said before, that I'm not going to go into detail discussing the smaller, more intricate portions of your delusion or deception, Survivor.

*Evidence that's subjective, or objective, or even second-hand.

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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by Survivor:
I do have tastier blood than humans,

Good to know.

-pH

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quidscribis
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Survivor,

quote:
So...you know I can't possibly be telling the truth because...I can't possibly be telling the truth?
Since you weren't paying attention, I'll reiterate just one more time. I know you can't possibly be telling the truth because a) you have offered zero evidence* you are telling the truth, b) there is notable evidence* you aren't telling the truth, and c) I make it a policy to disbelieve outlandish, highly unusual, ridiculous claims, choose your qualifier, without some form of evidence* that's persuasive.

This is why I do not believe you. It was quite clear the first time I said it, and it's quite clear this time as well. I do not, and I very much doubt others do either, harbor any secret uncertainties about this. This is also why, as I've said before, that I'm not going to go into detail discussing the smaller, more intricate portions of your delusion or deception, Survivor.

*Evidence that's subjective, or objective, or even second-hand.

That, and it's a complete waste of time.
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Survivor
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Well, that's probably true. Even though I'm certainly guilty of keeping this thread alive, despite the fact that it only existed in the first place to satisfy a fairly idle curiosity on my part. On the other hand, I have a better memory than anyone else here (if we're to believe what various people say) and I'm going to live longer as well, so perhaps you can think of it as a "bid for a touch of immortality" thread. I personally find that idea kind of silly, partly because I don't know what difference it makes to any of you to have me remember you.

Which is to say, even though posting anywhere else in this forum could be said to be even more of a complete waste of time, since there is less probability of my reading those comments, and thus less chance of them being remembered, that doesn't make posting in this thread any [i]less[i] of a complete waste of time.

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TomDavidson
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I can't decide whether to feel deeply sorry for you or to feel angry that you're still trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry for you when I'd rather not pay you any attention at all. I think I'll redirect the whole thing towards feeling sorry for your sister, and have done with it.
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Rakeesh
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Survivor,

Yet again your stated intentions and your words don't match up.

quote:
Even though I'm certainly guilty of keeping this thread alive, despite the fact that it only existed in the first place to satisfy a fairly idle curiosity on my part.
For an idle curiosity, you've certainly spent time and effort into satisfying it. More than an idle curiosity is due, at the very least.

Unless there was some sort of survey about self-perceptions of memory that I missed around here, you're talking out of what we humans tend to call our rumps here as well [Smile]

If it's a waste of time, why on Earth (or the Milky Way, whatever) are you still wasting time? Don't you have an extinction-of-humanity to attend to?

Again, stated intentions and words, Survivor. Yours don't match. Why don't people take your claims seriously? You make them not take them seriously, just like you're doing now.

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Olivet
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I don't really care if you're human or not. I don't see why it would matter. This sort of obscenely masturbatory thread does seem to be a common form of human expression. *shrug*
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Survivor
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Really? Why don't you all start them, then?

Or are you saying something about the landmark posts?

Actually, I started this thread to save time. The alternative was reading all the pointless fluff theads and such looking for the information I wanted. That doesn't mean that I'm being efficient by doing things this way. It just means that I'm too lazy to do it otherwise. Pooka pointed out the sakeriver discussion...interesting in it's own way, but I'm not about to read that kind of thread either. I know that I'm getting a biased sample this way, but I guess that laziness trumps any desire for great precision.

Hah, just noticed that Tom accused me of trying to make him feel sorry for me. Which would be funnier if I had already mentioned that I wanted to know what was going on around here because Tom had sorta made me think that I ought to be feeling sorry for him. Such a tangled web.

Well, Tom, I still love you. In a strictly inhuman, going to fry your species anyway sort of sense, you understand. That doesn't change even when I'm not posting on this forum. I even sort of like you, you've made more of an effort than most anyone else to keep this fun. And don't take my refusal to share my genetic material personally, it has nothing to do with the question.

Oh, and I love all the rest of you too. No worries there. I just thought that Tom particularly should be reassured on that point. The enumeration of specific persons who recieve my love shall not be taken to blah blah, and all that. Only, you know...worded more eloquently and without the blah blah part. But it's okay if you don't believe me. We're big on the freedom of the heart and all that.

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Samprimary
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You sure are a big bundle of contradictions! You don't care, but invest a lot of effort in not caring. You're caring but disaffected but malevolent. You are amused by us but don't actually care. But find us funny. But find this all pointless. You love us but can't wait to destroy us, but shed tears at the thought of our destruction, but revel in the delight of detailing the sanctimonious details of your purposeful role in our destruction and your haughty position for observation and participation. But you're not even really in charge of it, but have been planning the whole not being in charge of it thing for a long time now. But were originally wrong about the timeframe, but are actually proceeding as planned, only not. By golly, you're all over the place!

Seriously, while you're busy theorycrafting your whole "I'm a laudy-gaudy superior lifeform planning the destruction of your species" hallucination, you might as well aim for some consistency in storytelling!

Where's my popcorn.

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Kwea
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[Roll Eyes]
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Survivor
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It does all seem quite contradictory, doesn't it?

Particularly the bits about having affection for your species, when I can't come up with any good points to offset the obvious negatives. Still, it's true, you've sort of grown on me. I'm given to understand that it's fairly common with this sort of job. Almost universal. Perhaps necessary, though I'm not sure why that would be.

I suppose that, in the end, all you'll ever think about me is what you think of my reasons for being on this planet. So it's perhaps just as well that this discussion has mainly revolved around that issue. It's a little sad that most of you are so taken with your own humanity, it doesn't bode well for your future. But that is, as it has ever been, your choice to make.

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LadyDove
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quote:
I do have tastier blood than humans, but I'm not about to offer samples;)
Wow! I'm an alien! That explains why the fleas and mosquitoes come after me first. Thank you, Survivor, this has been very enlightening.
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rivka
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Aw, crap. And here I always just assumed I had sweet blood.
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pooka
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Not everyone is into sweet. Chocolate has a little bitterness to it.
quote:
And yet she thinks you're a loony.
I'd have to say that in terms of what's really important, well, it's a toss up. I was going to say I find Survivor saner than you. But you do have a wife and baby, which are not unimportant. But I don't feel sorry for Survivor or for myself on his account. Survivor is simply not content to live a life of quiet desperation.

I was going through my hymnal yesterday to figure out which songs I think I could play if I had a week to practice them, and the martial theme is quite well established. "We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness in high places etc." What's interesting is that the principalities and powers are mentioned twice earlier in Ephesians. So are aliens.

What I don't know, and would like to know, is whether Survivor considers me human. It's possible that I ought to know if I weren't.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Survivor is simply not content to live a life of quiet desperation.
I had told myself I was going to leave this thread alone, to avoid picking at the poor guy's scabs any more, but I thought this needed to be addressed: quiet desperation and loud desperation are not the only two options available.
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El JT de Spang
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quote:
Even though I'm certainly guilty of keeping this thread alive, despite the fact that it only existed in the first place to satisfy a fairly idle curiosity on my part.
I know I don't believe the second half of this sentence. The question is: do you? I wonder how honest you can handle being with yourself, and my guess (after reading this thread) is not very.

*shrug*

I hope you find what you're looking for.

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Survivor is simply not content to live a life of quiet desperation.
I had told myself I was going to leave this thread alone, to avoid picking at the poor guy's scabs any more, but I thought this needed to be addressed: quiet desperation and loud desperation are not the only two options available.
I was going to post the same.


There is always the other one...loving life, and your fellow man.

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Scott R
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Kwea:
quote:
There is always the other one...loving life, and your fellow man.
Why'd you have to go and turn this into a homosexuality thread?


:twisted:

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
Kwea:
quote:
There is always the other one...loving life, and your fellow man.
Why'd you have to go and turn this into a homosexuality thread?


:twisted:

LOL
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pooka
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So why is the alternative to quite desperation assumed to be "loud desperation?" It could be quiet serenity, or loud serenity.
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katharina
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Loud desperation is what prompted this thread.
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Scott R
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Quiet Serenity, Loud Serenity:

Just give us Serenity.

Or, barring the whole ship, give us Gina Torres.

Oh, mama.

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pooka
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I guess I could post a link to my firefly/12 step essay, that only two other people read as far as I know. But I'm running late.
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Scott R
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I never asked for an essay.

You confuse me sometimes, pooka.

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Survivor
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Well, I suppose laziness is a form of desperation. And the sort of laziness that demands everyone give me opinions because I'm too lazy to collect them on my own time is probably a louder form than some others.

I wouldn't say I'm serene. I keep trying to come up with a "kinder, gentler" vision of my role in affairs. My "how about 'catch and release'?" flirtation was particularly funny...er, well, that's probably dependent on viewpoint. Maybe desperation isn't a bad description for how I feel about things sometimes. And when I'm not feeling desperate it's not because I've summoned up some inner pool of serenity. I'm told that I do have one, though. Apparently it's quite deep [Wink]

What I need more than either is determination. I thought I could pick some up on the cheap by hanging around here a bit, but while I'm certainly more comfortable intellectually with my assigned tasks, my long affiliation with humanity still leaves me conflicted. The reluctance I feel is deeper than what can be removed with a couple of hours' exposure to the worst you have to offer. Not to disparage your wickedness, certainly you have been exemplars of that quality. Even my own dad couldn't show a better example...partly because he tends to lapse into genuine incoherence at a certain threshhold.

But I think that the essence of determination is to be willing to do something when you don't necessarily feel like it, not just being able to find ways to help yourself feel like doing what you ought. So perhaps I should feel satisfied with the degree of success I've had in reaching my other goals for this latest spate of posting. If I reach 700 posts I will back-date that as one of my goals...or perhaps I'll just...no, reaching 600 wasn't a goal, and I guess reaching 700 is also not a goal. But I have accomplished one, and may yet accomplish the other.

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pooka
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So what action is it you want us to take? Because you're souding like you have a warning of some kind and then express sadness that we have not heeded it. Is this a general purpose "pull your head out of the BFFC" or is there something else?
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Survivor
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Well, I just wanted to get a quick read on the current state of the forum, and also check Tom specifically since there were some interesting indications that he might be feeling neglected. Not that such a feeling would be unjustified, but it honestly isn't my purpose on this world to make anyone feel loved. I'm not averse to helping people that way or anything, it just isn't what I'm here to do, that's all.

I think that anyone who is concerned about what I would suggest should contact a competent mass extinction support organization specializing in assistance to your species. Other than that I think that you should fill your lives with joy, truth, and love...that probably means quitting this particular forum or at least cutting back.

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Samprimary
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quote:
I suppose that, in the end, all you'll ever think about me is what you think of my reasons for being on this planet.
Actually, and it's a little bizarre that you are unable or unwilling to figure this out from my plain statements, the only prominent question that I have now or ever had about you is whether you're quite literally insane, or if this is all a satirical act.

I have never given any consideration to what your purpose is as a human being, as there has never been any credible tenability granted to the notion that you are not actually a human being. Occam's razor, you know. It's an insult to any rational being to assume that they're taking you seriously without proof, because that would make them pretty gosh-darn gullible.

Anyway, whether it's all an act or not, I'm pretty certain that you're quite a silly man!

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Survivor
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Well, the silliness goes without saying, doesn't it?

I genuinely reject the concensus reality experienced by yourself and the predominant members of this forum. In that sense you may term me to be "insane". Relatively soon, this conflict between your culture's consensus reality will lead to open conflict, a conflict that I am prepared to decisively win, even though I'm not particularly pleased with the details of how this will be accomplished. Partly because the main effect of my demonstration of superior predictive insight into the nature of reality will be to convince most people in your culture that I am even more insane than you currently believe.

As I've said elsewhere, what you think of me is a good deal more important than what I think of you, though for different reasons than you like to flatter yourselves. And the widespread belief that I am insane will have serious implications for you in the times that are coming.

All you must do to prove me wrong is to kill me. But that is beyond the power of your species to accomplish. The only viable alternative is to believe me, but you have already chosen not to do so. And so you will cling to your deaths, because I was not sent here to save humanity.

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pooka
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[quote]Not that such a feeling would be unjustified, but it honestly isn't my purpose on this world to make anyone feel loved. I'm not averse to helping people that way or anything, it just isn't what I'm here to do, that's all.[/i]

I guess you can't make anyone feel loved. If this who thing of excluding yourself from the species is to get out of loving your neighbor as yourself, I think you're mistaken. The whole point of the Good Samaritan is that Samaritans were miscengenated and all that implied to those people at that time. It's come up before and there are people who don't agree with me, by my learning was that a Samaritan was viewed as more unclean than a gentile.

Then there's the old "you have to love yourself before you love your neighbor" saw. While this is technically true, I believe there is a discussion in the New Testament somewhere about how there was never a man who did not love himself because the very fact that you are alive attests to this love. At which point we come to spoilers for Xenocide and Children of the Mind.

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Samprimary
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quote:
All you must do to prove me wrong is to kill me. But that is beyond the power of your species to accomplish. The only viable alternative is to believe me
Ever heard of a 'false dilemma,' chummer? This here would be a perfect example. I don't have to lift a finger to not believe you. I don't have to kill you. Your logic is completely incoherent!

And taking the single most viable logical interpretation of a situation (guy on internet forum claims to be superpowerful ubercool nonhuman species involved in future destruction of mankind) and trusting it to be the likely reality (delusional) is not a 'concensus' (sp) reality. Really, for being such an amazing unkillable superbeing, you sure don't manage to understand 'logic' very well.

Anyway, what's the purpose behind continually attempting to elucidate upon how powerful you are? Does a single person here believe you, or is this simply waxing masturbatory?

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Rakeesh
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I'm not interested in proving you wrong, Survivor. With all the conditions you impose, how could such a thing possibly be done anyway? And no, that does not automatically mean you're telling the truth.

Anyway, I've given up discussing this with you. This will be my last post on the matter. You're either delusional, or just a strange jerk who wants to appear so...but in either case, you've not wavered once from your transparent motive of tugging on a bunch of puppet strings.

I was pretty clear on that going in, but there was a very slight, faint chance that I was wrong, that that wasn't the way it'd be. *shrug* That chance wasn't realized.

Get help, Survivor. Strange jerk or deluded human being, you clearly need it. I hope your life improves, whichever is true about you.

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Samprimary
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quote:
I'm not interested in proving you wrong, Survivor. With all the conditions you impose, how could such a thing possibly be done anyway?
At least when telling us to do something impossible he gloats about how it's impossible. You know, just so we know.
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Me, Myself, and I
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You're not by chance, planning to destroy us so you can build an interstellar highway through our planet, are you?

If so, could you please share some poetry with us?

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Survivor
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Well, I'm glad that Rakeesh has no interest in proving me wrong, anyway [Wink]

I was reading another landmark thread, one about "Shining Moments". I have a lot of moments like that, but all of them are too deeply intertwined with what I am for me to ever share them with anyone. I've often enjoyed using my powers to benefit others. I suppose the natural desire this feeds, to only use my powers for "good" rather than "awesome", has been one of my more persistant temptations.

I'm sort of curious about what word Samprimary thinks I was trying to spell when I wrote "consensus". Not curious enough to figure it out for myself, though [Wink]

I was not made so as to be able to die from lack of love, even from myself. Indeed, while I do not need your hatred to endure, it has ever made me stronger. Will I miss it? Probably not. It hasn't turned me into a Samaritan, after all.

There will eventually be an interstellar transportation junction situated on this planet, and it is true that the destruction of humanity is necessary before that can proceed, but I'm acting for rather different reasons. As for the poetry, sorry you missed it [Wink]

I hope that you will not take it amiss when I say that I fully intend to enjoy my work. Of course there will be sadness, and even pain. But the sheer pleasure of it, the joy of serving the purpose for which my body was designed...I will not deny that these attract me. Perhaps I should long for the challenges of a human existance, but I've never been willing to discard the advantages I've been given. Humanity really is better as a fictional device after all.

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Samprimary
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quote:
I'm sort of curious about what word Samprimary thinks I was trying to spell when I wrote "consensus".
You mean when you wrote "concensus?" I assumed you meant to spell "consensus." Huh. Wonder who misses that sort of thing.

Don't worry, I won't make the easy dig at ostensibly super-amazing beings that apparently can't be arsed to spellcheck or put punctuation inside quotation marks. This sort of material writes itself and the excuse is usually 'we're too far above you to care!'

Please continue!

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pooka
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quote:
can't be arsed to spellcheck
[Confused]
Is this a case of TomDavidson's law or a usage I don't understand?

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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
quote:
can't be arsed to spellcheck
[Confused]
Is this a case of TomDavidson's law or a usage I don't understand?

The latter.
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pooka
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So it's a blending of cutting edge hipsterism and grammar nazism? How peculiar. So what exactly is the use of proofreading to rebut an argument called?
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Survivor
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I did mention that I'm a grammar "atheist", right? For spelling I'm more just an occasional heretic.

Well, I never said that using human language was my strong point. I'm better at it than most of you, but the construct itself is inherently imperfect. I suppose that's what is behind that rather strange usage of "arsed".

In any case, I think that I prefer not to be "arsed" at all, even if it will result in perfect spellchecking, which I doubt [Wink]

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pooka
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Well, a wide open search of Hatrack doesn't show any hits for "arsed" as a transitive verb in the last 6 months. Now I know I am also guilty of nitpicking. He who lives by the red pen shall die by the red pen.
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Samprimary
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See? He's too far above us to care.

It's like clockwork.

I can't wait for the part where he demands that we bring him Dale Arden.

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erosomniac
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Or powdered Barry Manilow nose.
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