posted
I'm not suggesting that statistically, a woman is just as likely to be victimized by a man as opposed to vice versa in this sort of situation...but truthfully, I believe the chances are still pretty low.
I've picked up hitchhikers...oh, I guess something close to half a dozen times in my life, and given some money to panhandlers quite a few times more than that, and have never once been attacked. Granted, a long, careful, scrutinizing look coupled with listening to my instincts went into play in all of those-and there have been times I haven't helped because there was almost a palpable bad vibe.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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It's fairly neat. I do a lot of my writing in the back seat of someone else's car. I save on gas. I get home faster. I save wear on my own car. I help not pollute the environment.
The cost is standing outside in sometimes not pleasant weather, and maybe not getting a comfortable seat all the time. It was a no-brainer decision to start slugging.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Every time you mention slugging, Scott, it blows my mind a little more. I mean, it makes sense for everyone involved, but . . .
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Here, as Fahim has explained to me, we could buy rice & curry packets for people begging for food, but the recipient then usually turns around and sells the food packet back to the vendor and takes the money in exchange. So no better than giving change.
Beggers here are also extremely aggressive. They latch on to me, they follow me sometimes for hundreds of feet, they do not take no for an answer, they yell in my ear or keep shaking their coin jar over and over, and they do not give up. They do, however, leave obviously rich Sri Lankans alone out of respect for them, or so I'm told.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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While attending Columbia College Chicago, I was repeatedly approached by a man known as 'The Toad.' Initially I found him funny because he would bow, talk in a phony English accent, and say things like, "Greetings my lovely lady. I am the ugliest toad that ever walked this earth." Then he would tell stories about his crazy girlfriend or wife or whatever. I enjoyed his shpiel until a certain day.
He often told me I was beautiful and I would smile, sometimes give him change, and go my merry way. One day I walked out of the music department and he greeted me by saying, "You are one fine spring chicken!" I replied, "What? Did you just call me a spring chicken?" He said, "Yeah, you a fine cut of meat." That ended our civil relationship and from then on no money and no conversation from me.
I can't really explain why that changed my attitude towards him. I guess I was offended a bit, and it made me nervous. Chicago beggars can be extremely aggresive, and like Goody said, if you give once, they'll find you again. And again. And again. I used to give money to a guy seven years ago and he still asks me for money.
Posts: 511 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: By the time we had checked out, she was there ready to check out behind us and she had the nerve to ask me for yet another dollar--she was buying ice cream cones and brand name Oreo ice cream--not even the generic stuff. *sigh* I gave it to her, but I wondered what the freaking emergency was that she had to beg for her late night craving for ice cream. I wish now that I had refused--let her go back and get the generic cookies and cream. Oh well.
My thought is why give her the extra dollar. If you already spared what you wanted/could/needed to spare, why not say I'm sorry but I gave you what I could. It is ok to say no. What bothers me is that when you have already gone out of your way to do something nice and then you're guilted into even more. That's just not acceptable.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:strangers! In my car! They could be crazy people!
Well... I don't drive. I ride. So they're not in my car, I'm in theirs.
I did have some safety concerns, starting out. But I've got a cell phone, and both my starting point and destination point are very well defined. I suppose someone COULD do something nefarious, but I think the randomness and atmosphere of slugging kind of dissuades the possibility.
It's not for everyone, but it really has been a boon for us.
quote:Or worse yet, Hatrackers!!
Yeah, that'd be...very odd. I'd probably be all fidgety and nervous and hyper-tense. I'd probably have to swear off slugging forever, just to avoid meeting anyone again...
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I've seen the trash guy around, but I had no idea he was making such a splash. Then I stumbled across an editorial yesterday where the author speculated about making it more widespread. The verdict, after going out and recruiting a few street people? They were keen on it, or at least willing to give it a try, but the unionised city workers would probably object to it being so widespread. Ironic, in a city where the mayor declared a 2-hour city-wide trash clean-up, and encouraged everyone in the city to stop what they were doing and pitch in.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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The thing I've found interesting about slugging in the DC area is what an excellent track record it has. I don't know that any official statistics have been kept but in this case its perception and statistical safety that matter. I expect that even one highly publicized car jacking or kidnapping associated with the slug lines would be enough to shut the system down. In fact several of the websites on slugging acknowledge this and others note that not one single crime has been associated with the slug lines. The slug line demonstrate that hitchhiking isn't inherently dangerous and suggests that the widespread (at least in America) fear of it is overblown.
I've never picked up a hitchhiker when I was alone but I will when my husband is with me and we have room. I have hitchhiked myself on several different occasions. Once when we had a tire blow out on the Navajo reservation, once when I got stranded in the Salzkammergut due to a misleading bus schedule and numerous times associated with hikes. There are alot of places in the west even in the canyons just outside Salt Lake City where its common for people to begin a hike at one trail head, come out a different place and then hitch back to their cars. People seem to be more willing to pick up hikers trying to get back to their cars than they are to pick up generic hitchhikers.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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There were a bunch of beggars in Rome who got money by having a cute puppy. I guess people would feel bad for the dog and gave money so it wouldn't starve, but I always wondered what happened when the dogs got big and less cute.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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On the slugging track record, it goes back to at least 1989, so it's a good long record. It was already well established at that point, when my carpool used to pick up slugs if people didn't show up and we needed more to get on HOV.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Luet13: He often told me I was beautiful and I would smile, sometimes give him change, and go my merry way. One day I walked out of the music department and he greeted me by saying, "You are one fine spring chicken!" I replied, "What? Did you just call me a spring chicken?" He said, "Yeah, you a fine cut of meat." That ended our civil relationship and from then on no money and no conversation from me.
I can't really explain why that changed my attitude towards him.
I think I understand why that changed your attitude. There can be a fine line between funny and playful and creepy. We rarely know exactly where the line is until someone crosses it and sets off our internal alarms. When he was calling you lovely and beautiful he was complimenting you in a harmless and playful way. But 'spring chicken' and 'cut of meat' were sufficiently objectifying or perhaps had too many sexual overtones to be insulting and perhaps a bit threatening.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I think slugging benefits from a certain atmosphere as well.
Bad drivers don't get slugs. There was a gentleman that used to pick up slugs at the Pentagon to go to down to Fredericksburg; he was a terribly reckless driver, and he got a reputation. Fredericksburg slugs passed the word around amongst themselves, and within a couple weeks, no one would take him up. So he started going to the Falmouth lots, and the same thing happened.
I haven't seen him drive through the slug lines in a while now.
Lots of slugs frequent the forum on slug-lines.com; they can get word around pretty quickly about drivers to avoid.
Someone could feasibly kidnap me on the way home, or on the way to work; but that could happen anywhere, I guess.
For me, the convenience of slugging has overcome the theoretical dangers of it.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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In the US so many of the homeless suffer from mental illness that I try very hard not to judge anyone on the streets harshly. I've heard many anecdotes about the cadillac driving beggars, but I strongly suspect they are myths and that most of the people pulling tricks like standing one day and sitting in a wheel chair the next are likely to suffer from some type of mental illness or deficiency.
In the US, if you suffer from serious psychological problems your chances of ending up in prison or living on the streets are frighteningly high. They are the lepers of our era which I find deeply tragic.
I try to give generously to homeless shelters, food kitchens and other charities that offer help to these people. I figure this money is likely of more benefit than the loose change I might put in a beggars cup. But I also give change to beggars if I have any available. If I were better organized, I'd remember to move some change out of my purse and into a pocket when I know I'll be walking in an area with panhandlers. I don't feel safe pulling out my wallet when there are beggars around.
I know there are some homeless people who are too paranoid to accept help from shelters and the like. I'd rather give my loose change to someone who didn't need it than fail to give to someone who really did. There aren't really that many beggars in the areas where I've lived and it would hardly break me to give them all my loose change.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have heard that as well - something 90% of the chronically homeless have deblitating mental issues. In the 80s there was a serious effort to get the mentally ill out of hospitals and on their own, but what happened in a lot of cases was that they were shoved out the door and left to fend for themselves.
I think about all the people that function only because of the medications, and it's not a big jump to imagine that if one were poor and sick, it's not a very long road to being homeless.
You know that saying "At least you have your health"? I think for me, it is more applicable to having your mind. Being mentally ill is probably my worst fear - I can handle anything in life, because I can trust myself. If I can't do what needs to be done myself, I know where to go for help. If that was taken away - if my brain was no longer trustworthy to myself - that's an absolute nightmare.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:I know there are some homeless people who are too paranoid to accept help from shelters and the like.
Rabbit, you are very right about that. Eve and I tracked down the group that fed Eve's brother in the months before he died. Their whole operation was to bring meals to homeless people on the streets, which meant they could reach the many that would not go to shelters or soup kitchens for any reason.
The whole issue of mental illness in this country is heartbreaking to me. I know there are many who can't get the treatment they need. There are also some - anecdotally, many - who end up on the street despite the willingness of their families to pay for treatment. Without involuntary commitment, I can't think of anything that would have saved Eve's brother. The whole family has beaten themselves up unmercifully about the right words they could have said to convince him to enter treatment. Perhaps such words existed, but it's not a failing to be unable to have discovered them.
So barring a revelation about the right way to convince him, forcing him seems the only alternative. And making involuntary commitment easier scares the willies out of me from a civil liberties perspective - it's far more abusable than the criminal justice system is.
You do well to remind people of the mental illness aspect of much homelessness. Part of the problem is an inherent discomfort with mental illness that I'm not willing too judge too harshly.I think it would be better if such discomfort did not exist, but I can understand where it comes from even while wishing it weren't there. Reminders like the one you gave are always good, though.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:I have hitchhiked myself on several different occasions. Once when we had a tire blow out on the Navajo reservation,
Can I just say that if you've gotta be stranded and hitchhike from necessity, the Navajo reservation is a good place to do it.
I had a good experience when we needed help at the Navajo reservation when we were on our honeymoon-- not hitchhiking, but a cool experience.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'd give money to the litter guy. He's doing something. He's working in a way that benefits everyone.
We have slugging out here but we don't call it that, we just call it Carpooling. There are lots of places, especially in the east bay, to pick up carpoolers to SF or SJ. Traffic here is possibly the worst in the nation so getting to use the carpool lane is a huge boon. Though things have gotten a lot better, traffic wise anyway, since the Dot-Bomb.
Still, I wouldn't do it. I'd never put myself in harms way like that.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Organizations like Dagonee mentions are very important, and participating in them can be very eye-opening.
I was a team leader and later on the board for a student organization that was very similar, fixing food that we would then bring to the homeless in downtown Saint Louis, after which we would go to a shelter and help them serve the food they had prepared.
The range of what it means to be homeless is astounding, but most of the persistent homeless (who are luckily the minority) have some sort of mental or physical health issue, frequently the former.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:People seem to be more willing to pick up hikers trying to get back to their cars than they are to pick up generic hitchhikers.
I was driving to an Army Reserve school in Dublan CA, several years ago. It was early in the morning, Fathers Day and the family had gone to Grandma's for a vacation while I studied. I took the route over Tioga Pass and through Yosemite park, as I didn't have to be at school until mid-day. Just outside of Lee Vining I stopped for a large pack with a thumb sticking out. The hiker turned out to be a very attractive young lady who had attempted to hitchhike to San Francisco to see her Father, but had fallen short of the goal just outside of the park. I took her to Hayward where there is a BART station, and she was able to get to Dad's house on time. When I called my Bride to tell her I was safely at school, she asked how many times I had stopped to nap. I explained about the "Beautiful Blonde" traveling companion. She never did believe the story. Neither did the other solders at the school. However, it's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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This scene from Sports Night (pretty much my favorite show ever and of course it was cancelled after two seasons, much like Studio 60. What do you people have against Aaron Sorkin?) basically spells out how I feel about giving to people.
Dan: (knocking on open door) Isaac, you got a second?
Isaac: Sure. What's on your mind?
Dan: (comes in and sighs) You make a lot of charitable donations, don't you?
Isaac: I try.
Dan: Who do you give your money to?
Isaac: I used to donate money to the Democratic Party.
Dan: Not anymore?
Isaac: Well, you get your heart broken enough times, you learn your lesson.
Dan: Who do you give your money to now?
Isaac: I give it here and there. There are plenty of good causes.
Dan: That's the problem.
Isaac: Hmmm. Danny, every morning I leave an acre and a half of the most beautiful property in New Canaan. I get on a train and come to work in a 54-story glass highrise. In between, I step across bodies to get here. (sits behind desk) Twenty, thirty, fifty of 'em a day. So, as I'm stepping over them, I reach into my pocket and give 'em whatever I've got.
Dan: You're not afraid they're gonna spend it on booze?
Isaac: I'm hoping they're gonna spend it on booze. Look, Danny, these people, most of them, it's not like they're one hot meal from turning it around. For most of them, the clock's pretty much run out. They'll be home soon enough. What's wrong with giving 'em a little Novocaine to get 'em through the night?
I hope posting this doesn't sick the intellectual property cops on my butt.
Posts: 288 | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Someone could feasibly kidnap me on the way home, or on the way to work; but that could happen anywhere, I guess.
For me, the convenience of slugging has overcome the theoretical dangers of it.
Being in someone's car gives them far more opportunity than being in my own, or walking down the street.
You're not a woman. I am a big girl (in both senses) and I can take care of myself. But I would be very wary about getting in a car driven by a man I do not know.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I love that scripture that Scott quoted! I give to all panhandlers. I regard it as a superstition. If I always give to panhandlers, I won't ever have to BE a panhandler. It's my bargain with karma.
Same with waiters, and hotel housekeepers. I am a generous tipper to anyone who performs any sort of personal service for me. Also, I straighten up so the hotel housekeepers don't have so much to do. Somehow my mother instilled in me the understanding that your true worth as a person is more honestly reflected by what the people who serve you think of you than by what your bosses think. I try to be a grateful and sensitive servee. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I always remember the studies that have established the effectiveness of cigarette smoking as a (partial) self-medication for schizophrenia. It's cheap, can be bummed from other people, doesn't require paperwork or a regular prescription, and it helps with the psychosis.
Mental illness is hard, hard stuff.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: I always remember the studies that have established the effectiveness of cigarette smoking as a (partial) self-medication for schizophrenia. It's cheap, can be bummed from other people, doesn't require paperwork or a regular prescription, and it helps with the psychosis.
Mental illness is hard, hard stuff.
I just edited a medical journal where one of the articles was schizophrenia and smoking. It said those with schizophrenia were something like 5 times more likely to be smoking (and chain smoking at that) then the average person in America.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Of course, that doesn't mean that everyone who panhandles has mental illness (or schizophrenia in particular), or that those who do have it and smoke are purely doing it to self-medicate. I don't mean to imply anything of the kind.
What I do mean to say is that I am never sure what reasons a homeless and/or panhandling person has for smoking, and I hesitate to attribute it purely to recreation, given what has been established about its use in mental illness and the prevalence of such mental illness in this population.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Well, the scariest thing that ever happened to me was when I was like 20. My friend and I had gone to dinner, and it was dark when we got out. This guy came up to us with this sob story about not being able to afford a bus ride home. It was dark, and we had to cross the street to get to our car, so he was kinda freaking us out. Neither of us had any cash on us (or we probably would given it to him just to get him to GO AWAY), and we told him so. Then he pulls out a machine and says "Hey, I can take credit cards". At that point, we ran, and my friend pulled her pepper spray out of her purse while I unlocked the doors.
However, I generally DO feel sorry for homeless people. I like that here in San Antonio, alot of them don't just beg, but they sell papers at the intersection. At least it's an honest job, right? When I do have cash in the car, and it seems safe, I'll try to give it to them, but that's not often. What I do try to do is have bottled water in the car (also helps avoid paying for fast food drinks) and sometimes some sort of dried snack as well. I try to offer them a bottle of water and a snack. If they take it, I know they're sincere, and will probably do the same thing if I see them again. If they don't.... well, then I figure they really aren't in THAT big of need, and I avoid rolling down my windows at that intersection.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:I like that here in San Antonio, alot of them don't just beg, but they sell papers at the intersection. At least it's an honest job, right?
Not always. It's fairly common for someone to take all the newspapers out of a machine after paying for one, then selling the papers. Invest 35 cents, make several dollars.
I have no idea what percentage of people who do that are homeless or would otherwise be pan-handling.
Edit: wanted to add that CT's points about self-medicating are very well taken and important to keep in mind.
posted
I like the guys that sell papers in the morning. I pretend they're Newsies and whenever I'm not watching they sing and dance. It must be such an exciting life. So I try to buy their pape's when I can.
Also, around here you can tell who's legit by the dingy Houston Chronicle aprons they wear. I guess they could steal them, but you gotta start trusting somewhere.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rabbit, JH, and Dag make excellent points about mental illness and homelessness. I have a very close relative who is homeless and mentally ill. We tried to help, but couldn't really. We tried Baker Act-ing her, but on one occasion the state decided she wasn't a danger, and on another occasion they (the hospital) felt she was, but ultimately decided it wasn't worth the hassle of continuing to pursue commitment when her court-appointed lawyer got a couple of delays (sorry, I can't remember the legalese). It was a tragic and eye-opening situation.
I wish I had something of substance to add to this conversation, but all I have is my personal anecdote.
Some of you are nicer people than I am. I used to be more generous, but I kept having family members tell me it was stupid to give to pan-handlers. I resolve to be more generous.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
A couple of friends of mine are part of an organization that runs programs for the homeless.
My friends have made the point, which they say are backed up with fancy studies and everything, that giving money to beggars not only leads to a more negative outcome than donating the same money to shelters or programs (such as theirs *nudge* *nudge*), but it can be worse in terms of effect than not giving money at all.
My solution, when someone asks me for change, I decline and then donate the amount of the change I have in my pocket to my friends' program.
I have been known to offer people food (most take it) and I'll keep a public trans token on me for people who actually look like they've gotten stuck and need to get somewhere (I've had that happen to me and it really sucks).
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Squick, if you get a chance, could you find a link to some of those studies? I can't come to a firm conclusion on this myself, and additional info would be helpful.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: My friends have made the point, which they say are backed up with fancy studies and everything, that giving money to beggars not only leads to a more negative outcome than donating the same money to shelters or programs (such as theirs *nudge* *nudge*), but it can be worse in terms of effect than not giving money at all.
Squicky, If you have a chance, I'd also be interested in looking at those studies. I'd like to see what kind of controls or comparisons they did. I'm concerned that such studies might have a built in bias because those who are homeless because of substance obuse or severe mental illness are less like to seek or accept help from such organizations. I also suspect that giving to a beggar who is mentally ill will likely have a different outcome than giving to one who is a heroin addict or one who is a teenage runaway.
With that said, I'm fully in favor of organizations that help the homeless and the poor and try to give generously to them. I'd simply like to know how solid the evidence is supporting the idea that giving to beggars is worse than not giving.
[ July 17, 2007, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I personally have decided when I have the spare change I give it. I'm not going to be judged on what they decide to do with the money only for what I decide to do with what God has given me. I have given food as well. I even made some Christmas treats one year and took them to the "regulars" on this one corner. I had a friend who gave a woman who was on the corner some clothes for her kids. Personally, I give what I can give and then let it go. What they use it for is on their heads. (I do also give to charities as well when I can)
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
I basically agree up to a point. However, there are some reasons to make a judgment based on likely use.
For example, if one only has a certain amount to give, then giving it to someone who does not need it prevents giving to someone (or as much) who does need it.
More importantly are those instances where providing the money will enable self-destructive behavior. I haven't arrived at a solid conclusion about where responsibility lies in that situation, but if one has the means to tailor one's giving in a way that reduces self-destructive behavior, including means of discernment to allow that judgment to be made more reliably, those means ought to be considered. In that sense, I think we are responsible for how donations are used, because we are deciding how to use what God has given us.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Wendybird: I would also add that some of us give for reasons quite separate from whether or not we will be judged by a deity. In that case, it makes sense to at least have some idea as to whether one's donation is effective if only to efficiently allocate resources.
General: I will also add (although BlackBlade implied this on the first page) that outside of North America that child slavery and forced begging still exists. I myself suspect that I encountered this many times in Beijing and Shanghai in areas where many foreign/rich tourists go.
While this is probably not what Squick referred to, outside of North America one must be careful. In these cases, a donation may very well cause harm (directly) and (indirectly) subsidize an industry that profits by exploiting many.
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