posted
Actually, Tatiana even all other issues aside (and I would note that I haven't participated in the various adoption kerfluffles so hopefully I have some credibility here as an observer who genuinely likes all the personalities involved in this thread so far), I'd still have a problem with the stretching of the topic especially in the way you did it. Asking for good articles on the subject of parenting in this thread is a bit like meeting sushi-loving friends for dinner at a sushi bar and saying that the sushis looks okay, but that you've become really interested in gourmet food and can they take the time to run down some good resources for learning how to cook gourmet dinners. Productive participation in threads is all about give and take and having an understanding of the participants, the topic and the discourse markers (tone) that is driving the thread.
Not all topics have the same emotional valence and new motherhood -- the care of infants -- is one that is particularly loaded and intensely focused. And rightfully so. As has already been noted, infants are very different from other children in terms of their needs, fragility, relationship to the medical establishment, etc.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I just want to use this TOPP to give mad props to the Moms who've stuck to breastfeeding when it was hard for them. Sometimes it's easy to give up and just use formula. Sticking to it is really great and stuff.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
I've got to go to a meeting. Be back next time I get computer time. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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But those who aren't able to stick to it shouldn't feel bad either. Sometimes it just doesn't work even though it can be heartbreaking for the mother when it doesn't.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
No, you don't understand. You're using the fact of one set of disagreements (the adoption kerfluffles) to ignore a different set of disagreements.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Certainly. Though, I don't want to get into that topic too much as it can bring the LLL folks out of the woodwork.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: Given Tatiana's refusal to acknowledge the potential problems with her relationship, I'm not at all sure that it does.
But it's been well hashed here and that hasn't worked yet.
Unless I'm missing somewhere along the line that Sasha is not a real person, I don't think so. Whatever my opinion of Tatiana's reasons for adopting Sasha, I assume it's a fact that she apparently did adopt him.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: But, to be fair, a 17 year old will be mortified by anything his mother does.
Point, I wonder how mortified they would be if they found this thread in particular and the comparison between him and a baby.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Now I understand. People have reservations about me adopting Sasha. I guess I thought that would have evaporated by now since it's so obviously a good thing.
Why are y'all trying to persuade her on this issue? This quote, and others in this thread, highlights that getting Tatiana to budge even an inch is impossible.
It's not just that she's right despite reasonable concerns, she is so obviously right. You might as well try and convince KoM that religion rocks, Pix that big government is a good thing, or me that Superman is better than Batman. It's just not going to happen. She's either listened to everything that's been said about this and not budged, or (more likely IMO) ignored it.
Return the favor, folks!
Consider this my contribution to the effort to get her to storm out of these types of conversations in a huff, because that's simply what's going to happen here, and since it's a given, the sooner the better.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Her initial question in this thread may have been a diversion from the original topic but absolutely nothing that has been said in this thread warrants the out poring of vitriol against her thats happening.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Sorry Rabbit, but it's just creepy as hell given the context to refer to a grown man as a child who is 'sick and cranky'. It's creepy as hell to equate the issues of mothering a newborn and 'mothering' this guy.
It's also extremely difficult to believe Tatiana did not realize the reactions she was soliciting when she posted about those things.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Sorry Rabbit, but it's just creepy as hell given the context to refer to a grown man as a child who is 'sick and cranky'.
Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant. Based on that experience, there I think everyone here is over reacting and rudely mistreating Tatiana.
This is so obviously a carry over from the two scathing threads we had here denouncing he adoption of this young man. Denying it simply intellectually dishonest. People post things more off topic and far "creepier" than this in threads everyday without having half of hatrack's active members pile on them.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Based on that experience, there I think everyone here is over reacting and rudely mistreating Tatiana.
Everyone?
quote:Denying it simply intellectually dishonest.
Not as dishonest as your attempt to group and dismiss the opinion of many intelligent people who happen to disagree with you.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Awww...can we go back to talking about breast feeding and diaper rash? I'm expecting in about 8 weeks and wouldn't mind a thread to trade ideas on when the time comes. I somehow managed my first (now 2) but watch everything be completely different the second time!
Anyone cloth diapering? I started on my 2-year-old 2 months ago and am thinking of going ahead and doing it with my new one this May.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: This is so obviously a carry over from the two scathing threads we had here denouncing he adoption of this young man. Denying it simply intellectually dishonest.
Well, yeah, but if you don't like someone and disapprove of the way they conduct themselves, it's in no way wrong to let that color your other personal interactions with that person.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: Tatiana, why don't you start a "parenting teenagers" thread? The issues really aren't the same as with newborns. The difference in attention that needs to be paid to butts is a perfect example.
We need a thread about teenagers' butts.
Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dag, You are right, everyone was hyperbole.
As for the second part, I don't see that I dismissed anyones opinion solely because they disagree with me. Please point to where I have?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: Awww...can we go back to talking about breast feeding and diaper rash? I'm expecting in about 8 weeks and wouldn't mind a thread to trade ideas on when the time comes. I somehow managed my first (now 2) but watch everything be completely different the second time!
Anyone cloth diapering? I started on my 2-year-old 2 months ago and am thinking of going ahead and doing it with my new one this May.
I know Boon does and I think dkw does. I've tried it but it's just not feasible in my situation right now. I sent about 1/3 of my stash to Boon.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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We cloth diaper. John's been exclusively in cloth since he got home from the hospital, and Thing 2 will be as well.
We're really happy that since we already have everything we'll be spending no money on diapering Thing 2. Except maybe if we need cream, but we've only gone through 2 tubes of it in 18 months with John, so that's not a major expense.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:As for the second part, I don't see that I dismissed anyones opinion solely because they disagree with me. Please point to where I have?
I didn't say you did it solely because they disagree with you. The "disagree with you" was the identifying characteristic of the group being dismissed, not the cause of the dismissal. I'm not sure why you dismissed them.
But saying that the posts to which you object are carryover, rather than addressing any of the points actually made, is dismissal.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I'd just like to say that people who cloth diaper and use a service can't really recommend it to people who wouldn't use a service, either do to expense or because the feel having diapers trucked around somewhat defeats the environmental considerations.
But if your baby's butt can't tolerated whatever it is they put in disposables, I guess that's a different matter.
I'm also looking back and thinking about the fact that my oldest couldn't use a sling or a bouncy seat and wondering if that was related to the failure of the cloth diapers.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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There isn't a diaper service within 100 miles of my house...I looked!
It'll cost me a bit to cloth diaper because I didn't start with #1. I didn't realize until a few months ago that gerber burp rags weren't actual cloth diapers.
I've been putting my son in pocket diapers (Fuzzi Bunz and Bum Genius mostly) and they're working great. I don't think they'd fit on a newborn though...the size small looks huge. A friend gave me some tiny covers (6-10 lbs) and I got a few prefolds. I'm not as happy about doing it that way, but once I got the bug I decided this was my contribution to the environment in 2008.
Costwise, I think I'll end up saving about $500 over the next 2 years, but as all the $ I'm spending is up front, it's kind of hurting right now.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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If the seriously ill adult is bedridden, incapable of feeding herself, and incontinent there are some marked similarities. I've done that.
A chronic medical condition but still able to handle personal hygeine and self-feed? Not seeing as many similarities.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
If someone had commented in this thread that they were a mommy with a new baby because they had just received a seriously ill adult into their care, I would be creeped right the heck out.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Absolutely! I'd recommend it to anyone with a washing machine. It's cheaper, it's usually gentler for the baby, it's environmentally friendly (except in drought areas), and you can always pick up a pack of disposables if you're traveling.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Jon Boy, Perhaps you haven't been following the story but Tatiana adopted this guy because he was critically ill.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have followed this, and I believe you completely missed my point. Even if he is literally wearing diapers and throwing up constantly, and can't even lift his head or roll over, it's seriously creepy to call him a new baby.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: That's getting a bit personal, there, Scott.
Who died and made you the thread Po-Po?
I'm just trying some affirmative action meddling.
P.S.
quote:I'm a new mother, though my baby isn't a newborn. I have the same thing going on that some of you have described, that I worry a lot, and I'm afraid he's going to break, or I'm going to do something wrong.
I think the continued assertions that Tatiana said Sasha was like a baby are inaccurate. I should think everyone would be delighted to find she's overwhelmed and frustrated.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: Certainly. Though, I don't want to get into that topic too much as it can bring the LLL folks out of the woodwork.
quote:Have you ever cared for a seriously ill adult? I have and there is a lot about it that is comparable to caring for infant.
Such as?
I'd be happy to answer your question but not in this thread. I think we should give it back to the new mommies.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I found nursing nightgowns impossible to wear. I pumped every 3 hours, so I had to have something easy to open in the dark and half asleep. Well, I started out as a DD and went up to an F in my first trimester. You don't want to know where I ended up. The na-na holes in the nursing nighties were too small for me, even in the biggest size (which was like a tent everywhere else). The saleslady and my mother wouldn't believe me until I showed them. It's funny now, but it wasn't then. Fortunately, my cousin sent me a beautiful regular nightie that happened to button half way down and it was perfect. So I just bought a bunch of inexpensive regular nighties that buttoned.
Also, if anyone is pumping - your nursing bra can hold the cups so you can have your hands free. Just fasten the flaps over the cups (and adjust until you're comfortable). It doesn't stretch them very much and it's awesome to have your hands free.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I love nursing nightgowns-- but I do have to get them a size or two up or else the ones with the super-extra-long slits and pull it around sideways to use it. (Basically, I have to go by my top size, not my nightgown size-- I'm a medium nightgown, but an XL top 'cause of the bustage.) I only have two (actually one's a pj top) but I do have a lot of button-up nighties. When I'm nursing a baby in them I keep them unbuttoned except for the top button for ease of use in the middle of the night.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: I'd just like to say that people who cloth diaper and use a service can't really recommend it to people who wouldn't use a service
Uh huh. I'd just like to say that you're wrong. I've used a service and I've washed them myself. The majority of the issues were exactly the same.
quote:Originally posted by Mrs.M: Also, if anyone is pumping - your nursing bra can hold the cups so you can have your hands free. Just fasten the flaps over the cups (and adjust until you're comfortable). It doesn't stretch them very much and it's awesome to have your hands free.
Does not work with some brand of nursing bras, IME. But having only one hand free was never that big a deal for me, so maybe I didn't try all that hard.
I completely agree on the preference of button-down nighties rather than nursing ones. Much, much easier, and cheaper to boot.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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One of my friends used cloth diapers (I don't). Her baby (number three) was super sensitive to wet diapers. She felt like she was changing the diaper every few minutes so she switched to disposables. However, now that the baby is older, she is hoping to switch back to cloth diapers. My view on diapers is that every baby demands something different. If we don't want to be covered in poop, we have to use Luvs. I have tried pampers, huggies, store brands, etc. I can't deal with poop so, the cloth wouldn't work. If the diaper does leak, I have to immediately wash the soiled outfit or it will drive me crazy.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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I love my nursing pajamas. The first pair I got has a wrap-style top that you just pull aside to nurse. The cleavage is a little dramatic for answering the door or wearing around the house when someone might see me through the living room window, though. So I got another couple pair that have a fake-front that lifts out of the way to access the gigantic nursing openings. Love em.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I use the button-up nighties. I didn't like mine at first, because since I also started off double-pumping the vee neck wasn't big enough to get both of the girls out at the same time...I didn't think it through, so I was surprised how well it worked for nursing. Baby only needs one at a time.
Nathaniel is wearing a frog wrist rattle and he's currently trying to see if he can cram the whole thing inside his mouth, having been unsuccessful thus far with fitting his fist in.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Liz B: Nathaniel is wearing a frog wrist rattle and he's currently trying to see if he can cram the whole thing inside his mouth, having been unsuccessful thus far with fitting his fist in.
Usually having a frog in one's throat is a bad thing. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm going to do a bit more reading on pumping in the next couple of months, because I swear sometimes I must have been doing it wrong when I did it with my son. I do realize that occasional pumping with an exclusively nursed baby doesn't work all that well, but the pitiful drops...the lonely, pitiful drops I got!
I never could get the pump on right. Forget hands free, I just never felt, for lack of a better word, as if the pump were latched on right. I also felt like I had to push it up and into my massive, saggy breasts and maybe I was wrong about that, too, but if I didn't then I got nothing at all. I had to have just the right amount of pressure in just the right direction...something a bra couldn't give me, unfortunately.
I like nursing much better.
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: One of my friends used cloth diapers (I don't). Her baby (number three) was super sensitive to wet diapers. She felt like she was changing the diaper every few minutes so she switched to disposables. However, now that the baby is older, she is hoping to switch back to cloth diapers. My view on diapers is that every baby demands something different. If we don't want to be covered in poop, we have to use Luvs. I have tried pampers, huggies, store brands, etc. I can't deal with poop so, the cloth wouldn't work. If the diaper does leak, I have to immediately wash the soiled outfit or it will drive me crazy.
Every single brand of disposable diapers we tried on my son leaked when he was a newborn. We tried them all, too. None of them seemed to be able to hold poop until he was in size 3. We brought 3 extra outfits wherever we went, just to be on the safe side, and one time we did run out and had to have him in poopy clothes until he got home.
I hate poop. It was the biggest thing I had to get over to cloth diaper. Fortunately, I have it on good authority that breastfed poop doesn't need to be touched -- just thrown in the diaper pail no rinsing involved. I'm actually kind of hoping that these work better than disposables in small sizes because I never did have luck.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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We discovered that monster needed to wear diapers a size bigger then we would think. And despite being breastfed, her poop was extremely stinky. And she could shoot it across the room (we were changing a poopy diaper and she decided she wasn't done- the distance was pretty impressive. As I was standing there covered in poop, calling for my mom, she decided to impersonate a boy and she peed all over me- also managing impressive distance and height).
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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