posted
These books are insanely popular in my part of the world. Always having to get restocked at the book store. Always checked out at the library. (At last count, the waiting list for holds on the newest book was over a hundred people before me.)
And, any bit of news on the film adaptation causes the various movie sites and blogs to be flooded with people going SQUEEE!
I don't even -like- vampire fiction that much, but I had just read Robin McKinley's Sunshine. I wanted to read something similar.
But like I said, looks like it'll be months and months before the library can loan me book one. I see B&N has an el-cheapo paperback version out now. Should I break down and get it? Has anyone else read them? Are they any good?
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I like them I think they are good, funny, entertaining, they have awesome chracters. Bella and Edward tend to be a bit.... well... You'll have to see once you read them, but I just like them. I don't have much of an interest in the film because the guy just doesn't look Edwardian enough. Why can't they use the Prince Caspian dood? He's way more edwardy. They will probably ruin it anyway and annoy me somehow, like making too many character changes when the characters are great they way they are and that is all their is to it.
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What's wrong with Robert Pattinson? He was a great Cedric Diggory.
I assume Ben Barnes was too busy doing pick-ups and publicity tours for Prince Caspian. Plus, he's already under contract for two more Narnia films, plus all his theater work. He's a busy guy, and sure to get busier.
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Yeah, but Edward's got to be unnaturally hot. I don't think there's a guy that can play him. Maybe with a lot of white, glowy make-up, it might help, but I don't know. Edward is supposed to be superdupernaturally HAWT. Still, I will pass on this movie and any others since HP4 was so irratating
Oddly enough I'll see the Narnia movies because I haven't read all of the books and don't feel as passionate about Narnia as I do HP, T, NM, E and stuff like that. They are doing one of Maximum Ride which is another series I just enjoy. It's funny and exciting in bits and just a good solid read.
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Sunshine! I read that last fall and really liked it, I went to the author's website and read that she really wanted to write a sequel to it, but just hadn't thought of anything good enough to follow it.
(Which is sad, but I admire her restraint.)
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Huh. On her blog, McKinley wrote somewhat the opposite: She knows a -lot- about where Rae's story will go next, but hates writing sequels due to bad past experiences with the Damar series.
Will the real McKinley motive please stand up! Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Here's the bit I'd read, from her FAQ section:
quote:For all of you who are writing me eagerly asking about the possibility of/ requesting politely/ demanding a sequel to Sunshine, thank you very much for your expressed enthusiasm, but the answer is: I haven't the slightest idea if I'll write a sequel! It's not up to me! I can't do anything unless or until a story comes to me and says, 'Write me write me now.' (This is all in the FAQ, by the way.) I'd love to write more about Sunshine I know quite a bit about what happens to her but it's not up to me. If you want to nag someone, find the mailing address of the Story Council and nag them to send me the sequel. (If you discover the mailing address of the Story Council, however, I want it. Badly. I have a few things to say to them about the unreasonableness of their system. Maybe it worked back in the days of bards and shamans and authorized lunacy, but it's a rotten system for present-day, this-world writers trying to, you know, earn a living, and maybe behave like human beings instead of like mental cases.) Given my professional history on the subject of sequels, I can't say that the odds are very good (I know a lot about Damar that hasn't seen print either), but maybe the Story Council has changed administration recently and is, even as I write this, making radical and extensive alterations in their organization and structure. And the sequel to Sunshine is due to hit the inside of the back of my skull with a thunk any day now. But don't count on it.
That FAQ entry's undated though, so her feelings might've changed since.
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I absolutely loved Sunshine-- when I finished it, I reread it immediately and have read it several times since then. I've never found another book with the same feel. Tell me how you like the Stephanie Meyer books when you manage to read them, will you, Puffy?
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I love the Twilight Series. They are my current favorites. I listen to the audio books and get quite a bit more work done around the house. My husband is even listening to them in the car on his work commute!
I think they are worth your time since they are fun, easy reads. You'll probably finish all 3 of them within a week. I find Stephenie Meyer's writing style very personable and quite captivating.
I'm really looking forward to the movie. It looks like they're doing a great job with it. Stephenie Meyer is even making a cameo!
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She's also a big OSC fan. Wait til you get to these hilarious great scenes in Eclipse. She is quite a good writer in terms of drama and comedy.
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I would have loved Twilight unconditionally when I was fourteen. Maybe I'm too old. I have conditions now.
Meyer tells her stories well. She's a gifted writer - you tend to 'wake up' three hours later, reading her books. But at the same time - Bella, the main character, is so flat. Maybe I over-identify and am therefore over-critical, since we share a nickname. However, she's very much the damsel, not the hero, in her own life story. Plus, there's something so unhealthy about her equating love with death. I wasn't too impressed by the way she loves Edward stalking her, sneaking into her bedroom uninvited, ordering her around, etc. I just want to yell 'Come on, grow a spine. He wants to kill you!' I like my heroines a little more active. She's a bit of a Mary-Sue - everyone she meets loves her because she's pretty and nice - her only (acknowledged) fault is that she falls over a lot.
There are a few other things that bothered me - namely, the reason Meyer gives for vampires not liking sunlight seems rather unlikely.
But they're engaging stories and very much based on wish fulfilment, which makes them enjoyable. The author seems to be lovely, from what I've heard, too. Just dont switch on your analytical brain.
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I want to read about Damar...but she HAS written two stories about it, so she is doing better than some....
Three, if you count Deerskin. Though judging what era Lissar lived in compared to when Aerin lived is difficult. Certainly, it takes place long before Harry comes into the picture.
(Not to mention the short stories in A Knot in the Grain, Water, and the mention in Spindle's End.)
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Bella, many positive reviews of the novel from older, shall we say more seasoned fantasy fans seem to agree with you. The consensus seems to be it's likable empty-calorie fantasy, with an incredibly devoted fan base. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I don't think she's flat... a bit...dependent, but not flat. She reminds me of me. She hates proms and big weddings. I hate stuff like that deeply.
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Reading her site, the author seems to have a nice self-deprecatory sense of humor. I like that.
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Puffy, I think Sunshine is MUCH better than the Meyer books, but that's me. I did enjoy the Meyer books, and they were responsible for me getting back into YA fiction. My daughter raved about them, I read them, and said it reminded me of a novel I'd had on the back burner for years, then when I told my daughter the plot she demanded I write it - and it's actually been my favorite writing project ever and it's going pretty well, for me! (my story is only similar in that it involves teens, and fantasy, and a romantic element - no vamps in mine)
At any rate, I agree with much of the criticism of the main heroine, Bella. She is very passive, and weak. Things happen to her - she doesn't really make them happen. In the second book, Meyer tried to have her be more active but it came off really angsty-teenager. "Oh, I feel like my life isn't going where I want it to, so Im' going to do stupid stuff that endangers me!" Bleh.
So, I understand the criticisms, but they're still a fun read. Empty-calorie fluff describes them well, IMO.
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I don't think she's weak She's really rather brave and self sacrificing, a bit too self sacrificing sometimes, but she's got a lot of guts. Plus she was so young in the second book, and faced with such adverse odds (trying to be spoiler free) Though those scenes actually amused me a bit.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Belle: Empty-calorie fluff describes them well, IMO.
Thirded, although my impression shouldn't count for much since I only read a couple of chapters before I quit. I might pick them up sometime if I had a couple of days to waste.
IMO, the writing was quick and easy but shallow, the characters were likable but shallow, the plot was shallow...I'm seeing a trend. And I don't think it's sufficient just to say "Oh, it's YA." There's a lot of quality YA fiction, and Stephanie Meyers is no Lloyd Alexander.
If you want an interesting YA Vampire series that might be in stock try the Darkangel trilogy by Meredith Ann Pierce. The first book in particular I thought was quite good.
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I loved the Darkangel books, but thought the ending and coda made the entire series jump the shark. I know Pierce was trying for a non-traditional ending, but she just didn't pull it off well enough.
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I have read only the first book, but will comment as a guy. First the criticism. It is way too much of a typical teen romance with a girl that meets a fantasy guy and obsesses over him. Her "love descriptions" made me want to puke. In the second book it only got worse and so I had to stop reading.
I never thought of Belle as weak or shallow in the first book. Maybe she gets weaker as the novels progress. What I think is that she had a conflicting character. Her weakness was in her obsessive love of Edwards that acted upon her rather than she acted with. However, that is really a good example of teen love. At the same time, her strength was that she was fearless in the face of death and temptation. She became a hero by not allowing the dangerous love destroy her, or by breaking it off. In this way, at least considering the first book, it is both more and less than fluff.
I think it is so popular because it represents for young women both the fears and fantasy of love. It isn't based on mature love. Then again, for anyone who has picked up a romance novel the only thing that might be different is the lack of a sex scene or a vampire. I know of a few people who don't want their daughters reading it or don't like it themselves for that reason. On the other hand, I know of many fans who react more like Synesth and see something of themselves in the character as brave and passionate, although not always in control of their lives.
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Twilight is fascinating because it describes the perfect, safe, "dangerous" relationship. I have a whole rant about it, but I've written it already. The books are erotic, but not explicit.
If you want the opinion of some educated, adult reviewers who are also immersed in your culture, check out the Anneke's entry on Zalmoxis's literary blog.
posted
Reading the interview was interesting. Glad she has an understanding editor. (A YA/Teen book -without- explicit premarital sex? Judging by B&N's Teen section, that seems to be quite rare, these days.)
Which article in the first link am I supposed to click on? I can't tell. (feeling stupid, yeah.)
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Hmmm. I think the reviewer may be assuming readers are a lot stupider than they may actually be. Most of the people I know who read the often super-stylized world of shojo romance manga -know- that 99% of the books are escapist fantasy. They don't expect it to be like real life or build their own lives on the tropes of such stories.
I'll have to read the books to judge for myself, but I get the feeling the teen girls reading Twilight are probably include a good mix of self-aware girls who realize fiction is fiction, not a life plan.
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I don't see Edward as abusive. Overprotective maybe, but definetly not abusive. I'm just not seeing it, and I read Why Does He Do That. It's mostly that he's stronger and supernatural being a vampire and all, but, other than the fact that he wants to DRINK Bella for dinner (which explains his earlier behavior, he was such a jerk towards her, but mostly because she's his favourite FOOD walking into the room) he really doesn't strike me as an actual controlling, moody abusive guy. If anyone keeps lying (though she hates it) it's Bella. He wants her to be honest about what's going on more than she wants to admit it to her parents. In the second book and third book, you'll see her realize stuff about her relationship with Edward and what she'd lose out on. So I don't think I agree totally with those reviews.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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My daughter and I read the first Twilight book last summer, then I bought a boxed set of the trilogy for her for Christmas. I liked the first one all right, but barely made it through the second and haven't even cracked the third yet.
I got REALLY tired of Bella's moping in book two. And it was all pretty predictable.
I wouldn't have bought the set for myself, but I'm hardly the target audience. My 17 year old daughter is probably a little older than the demographic it's aimed at.
I'll probably wait to watch the movie on DVD. And one of these days when I can't get to the library, I'll read the third book.
I just bought Sunshine about a month ago and really liked it. I'd love to read a sequel to that one.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: I loved the Darkangel books, but thought the ending and coda made the entire series jump the shark. I know Pierce was trying for a non-traditional ending, but she just didn't pull it off well enough.
I totally agree. I could take or leave Gathering of Gargoyles and Pearl of the Soul of the World, but I really liked Darkangel, and thought the other two were worth reading to find out what happened. I do remember being particularly let down by the resolution.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I think katharina is exactly right. Edward is dangerous yet completely safe. The perfect tormented dark hero--very Heathcliff. And jillions of adolescent girls said, "Yum!"
I liked all three books. I won't go out and buy the 4th, but I will pester the 7th graders I teach to loan me one of their copies.
What I thought after reading the first was that it reminded me of the 1980s/ early 90s romance novels I loved so much at that age, where the hero was totally alpha, very bossy, kind of mean at times (although his meanness was always somehow justified or at least understandable), very very sexy, and redeemed by loving a seemingly normal though very beautiful girl. Trust me, I'm not knocking the formula...I *love* the formula. Anyway, I think that's a big part of the appeal of the series to the smart adolescent...she can enjoy the sentimental and erotic thrill of a romance without being seen reading a romance.
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quote:I can't do anything unless or until a story comes to me and says, 'Write me write me now.'
I hate this excuse. You're a friggin' writer-- make something up!
Of course, she's the one with a book deal, and I'm not...
I'm reading Twilight right now. It seems pretty much crafted for the market it's targeted at. My wife liked Twilight (which was odd, since she's not a big fan of speculative fiction, much less YA vampire romance); she was derisive of New Moon.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Bella: You are seriously smoking hot. Edward: So are you. And you smell delicious. Bella: And you're so mysterious and dangerous! Edward: Let's hook up. Bella: Can we make out? Edward: No, because then I might accidentally eat you. Bella: *swoons*
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: My summary of Twilight is basically this:
Bella: You are seriously smoking hot. Edward: So are you. And you smell delicious. Bella: And you're so mysterious and dangerous! Edward: Let's hook up. Bella: Can we make out? Edward: No, because then I might accidentally eat you. Bella: *swoons*
Tha's funny. I still like it anyway. It's entertaining, which is what I need these days.
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Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't entertaining. I read it quickly, but it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
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I recently realized that these books could parellel the book The Wind Blows Backwards. It's a cool book, but when I read it when I was older I realized that Spencer was extremely troubled and unhealthy. I'd say Edward was a lot less screwed up than him, even though he was a vampire. He's not nearly as moody. They remind me of each other because of the teen mush aspect of it all.
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Edward isn't as moody because that would be off-putting to Bella, and Edward's defining characteristic is "attractive to Bella".
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Edward has no wisdom. One would expect someone so old, who has lived such a long lifetime, to have wisdom. That's part of the vampire mystique, after all - they've lived longer than you and they know more than you.
But he's not - he acts and talks pretty much like a 17 year old high school guy. One with money, and a certain amount of sophistication, sure...but still just another 17 year old guy. And that's unfortunate, because it makes him seem shallow.
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I don't think he talks like a 17 year old high school guy. For one thing he uses antiquated phrases. And I don't think he's shallow either.
I feel bad for him because ALL the other vampires he lives with have mates except for him. Poor dood. Everyone has someone to pair up with for decades except him, until he meets bella. And anyway, Jacob is way more immature than Edward, but I like him too. He's a cub. He can't help it.
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I have to confess that the whole "horror romance" genre just seriously squicks me the heck out.
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quote:manipulative suicide threat thing. Who DOES that?
What, the "if you do not swear to be with me, I have no reason to live and will do something to myself" thing? I've heard that before - I couldn't believe it then, either. I think I laughed. But I've definitely heard it. Is there a Ways to Manipulate handbook out there?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm endlessly annoyed by Bella. Is this seriously how the targeted audience thinks?
"Those two guys like me. They're good, ordinary guys who aren't that unattractive. They treat me kindly. I can't stand them-- why do they bug me so much?
"But Edward, oh, Edward. He's rude and kind of creepy, and always looks at me so angrily. Delicious..."
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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That they are good, ordinary guys is exactly what makes them more dangerous to the status quo - being in a relationship is an enormous responsibility and serious relationships with good guys often lead to much more serious responsibilities and real life and oh-my-stars-she's-just-16. Sometimes dating the bad guy is a great way to avoid growing up too fast - that he is unlikely to be a good long-term prospect is precisely the point.
Dating the bad boy is still generally a bad idea because the real broody, dangerous guys will inflict harm and often leave 16-year-olds with children, which is definitely growing up too soon.
That's why Edward is so perfect - all the dangerous appeal of the bad boy who is entertaining and exciting but won't tie you down, but he's good on the inside, so you're still safe and secure.
What's that magazine Lisa Simpson is always reading? With the Coreys?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: Jacob's a cutie but I kinda went off him after he did that
*SPOILER*
manipulative suicide threat thing. Who DOES that?
Well, he's immature like that. He did get what he wanted, but he's soooooo immature. Still, I adore Jacob. I hope he finds a nice girl to imprint on because it's just not going to happen with Bella who has been stolen by the supernatural hunk. And besides, those other guys already have girls who are into them. It's werid how she goes straight for the supernatural doods. I wonder if she's going to get Vamped Out in the next book and what that will be like. I don't think I'd want to Vamp Out. You can't have babies when you're a vampire. I don't think she really thought enough about the consiquences until book three. She's not perfect, but I like her anyway. Her anti-prom and big wedding thing is rather meish.
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Sorry to bring up an old thread but its better than starting a new one.
I work at a Barnes and Noble and got roped into working the long mid-day shift on August 2nd to help with all the "Breaking Dawn" madness. So because we're out of copies of "Watchmen" to read on my lunch break, I decided to read through Meyers' series so that I could understand what all the hype was about. I was reluctant because of A) its popularity and B) it has started some seriously loud debates in the break room. Regarding the popularity, I had the same concerns with "Harry Potter" which I didn't start reading until after the fourth book had come out. But now I absolutely love that series.
[MINOR SPOILERS BELOW!]
And you know what? I like the first book. I thought it was vapid and shallow and about as deep as the average romantic comedy movie. But I have to admit that I'm a sucker for tortured romances and falling in love with the enemy. I was very aware of the criticisms made by my coworkers. They said Bella wasn't a good role model, that the male characters were disgusting, etc. I figured that perhaps they were overreacting. I was disappointed by how little actually happen by way of plot but it was still a pleasant, sugary read.
I've been power-reading through "New Moon" and "Eclipse" and realized fairly quickly that I was forcing myself to read instead of enjoying the mental state where time and pages pass unobserved. The two kind of blur together because there is even less plot than the first book. Literally, nothing happens.
Bella really is incredibly flat. She has no hobbies or interests. Occasionally she'll read "Wuthering Heights" but a short mention pales in comparison to the amount of time she spends obsessing over Edward. It was cute the first hundred or so pages, but it quickly started bordering on sick. She can cook, but she treats it like a chore for her father with whom she has no relationship. She doesn't approach it was a passion or an art. Oh, and she's unbelievably clumsy. That is the one "adorable" flaw Meyers gives her. In "Twilight" the reader is constantly reminded that Bella is used to living in Phoenix, a large city. And yet, on a trip to a nearby city, she vaguely recognizes that she is the in the wrong part of town (lots of warehouses, few people) and doesn't think to turn back. Not exactly street smart!!
We're told that no boys played attention to her in Phoenix, and yet she is a male-magnet in Forks despite being distant, rude, and artificial in her interactions with her fellow classmates. She, of course, becomes absolutely smitten with the the beautiful Edward who occasionally treats here with smile but spends the majority of the time avoiding her and treating her like something vile. His behavior leads her to become more and more obsessed and results in repeatedly berating her own below-average looks. I'm willing to accept that her low self-esteem is makes her relatable to teenage girls, but she isn't even comparing herself to anyone else besides the Cullens. Its all about how she isn't equal to Edward and the whole idea makes me alittle ill.
Not the mention that their relationship is entirely based on physical appearance and alittle magic. Bella thinks Edward is hot and mysterious. Edward thinks Bella smells tasty and is confused as to why he can't read her mind. This isn't a relationship based on shared interests, a sense of humor, or being an intellectual match.
When Edward leaves her, she completely loses her mind. Yeah, we've all had bad breakups. The kind that leave you locked in your room listening to bad music with angsty lyrics. But not Bella, she goes catatonic, and not in the metaphoric sense. Without Edward, she loses her entire self-worth. Everything falls apart, which isn't surprising since she didn't seem to have anything going for her before Edward showed up.
And then there's Jacob. The first character with a personality. Here's a boy who has a hobby! He works on cars! He treats Bella well, has healthy friendships, and has a better relationship with his own father. So what does Meyers do? She transforms him into a muscle-man, whose behavior is even more disgusting than Edwards.
Reading "Eclipse" is like watching a male pissing contest. Who can control Bella more? There's Edward who disassembles her car to keep her from visiting Jacob. There's Jacob who emotionally blackmails Bella into kissing him. And in that moment of betrayal and abuse, she realizes that she loves him!! What?! I lost track of how many times she's is physically restrained and forced to act against what little will she has.
Not that Bella is always the victim. One minute she's acting all righteous and self-sacrificial, and the next she's keeping Edward standing alongside on yet another war that all about her. She strings Jacob along in such a way that makes me wonder if she's just that dense or if she's as manipulative as her boyfriend.
I have 30 pages in "Eclipse" left to read and I'm having to drag myself through it because with each page I turn, I become increasingly disappointed that Bella is still alive.
I'll probably get my hands on a copy of "Breaking Dawn" next week and I'll read with the tiniest bit of hope that Meyers will somehow salvage Bella's character or grow her into an independent young woman who finally stops being attracted to controlling, abusive men. But I doubt it.
I apologize for the rant but I wish I hadn't read the series. Now I'm just going to feel ill with each copy of the new book that I sell. I can't believe how many young girl are impressed by Bella and falling in love with Edward.
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