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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Looking for Non Cliched Serious Anime's (Page 0)

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Author Topic: Looking for Non Cliched Serious Anime's
Earendil18
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I nth Ghost in the Shell anything, Cowboy Bebop, and Wolf's Rain.

Full Metal Alchemist started out good, but once the producers reached the end of the manga plot, they made up the rest and thus after episode 23ish the series just goes downhill.

I saw End of Eva, haven't seen the series, so I'm probably not qualified to comment just yet.

Death Note is interesting, but like a lot of animes seems to suffer from "great mid-act climax in the middle of the series, then slowly collapses into poo by the end". Both FMA, Death Note, and a few others have done that so far.


Blayne, it's a visual shorthand to convey emotions, yes. So what? It's not in every anime, and obviously there's a large audience who don't mind the visual shorthand. You do, therefore don't watch animes with those visual shorthands, although it may be hard to completely avoid. It's part of a long history of the development of Japanese animation.

All the animes listed above (in my post), barring fullmetal alchemist and death note, do not use this visual shorthand because of the subject and content of the story and characters. They are appealing to an older demographic I suppose, or it's a style choice because the story is not light-hearted or whimsical.

I guess that's why you started this thread, to find animes that don't use this visual-emotional symbolism/shorthand. Great. You can go on about how poopy the shorthand/cliche is, but um...what's the point?

It's anime. And a very large percentage of anime is aimed at a young market. Having to be "forced past the immaturity"...maybe, but FMA is probably not the best example of "well crafted anime" to begin with. There's a lot of filler material, characters who make the weirdest decisions on a dime, and a cliche "it's a parallel universe" ending.

Death Note is only slightly better, but again suffers from some of the shortest character introductions in history, bad plotting, and "filler" episodes. (SPOILER WARNING)You really have to turn your brain down a notch to accept a story where the main protagonist(antagonist, depending on who's side you're on) is killed halfway through the series, and then two new characters who get 1.7 minutes of backstory, come on to the scene as the story continues haphazardly onward using whatever attention grabbing plot contrivances it can to keep you until the end.
(END SPOILER)

Both series, as well as others, appear to suffer from producers who prioritize money over craft. Nothing has to make that much sense, just a threads-width of sense, some story gimmicks to hook the viewer for the next episode. What will happen next???

But this is just because I'm older, and while I like rolling back the clock, the fact of the matter is a large portion of anime is meant for a young audience and is immature.

It is what it is. [Smile]

[ July 07, 2008, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Earendil18 ]

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Femellanovis
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If you want to see the best use of that visual shorthand check out Dragon Half. It's only two episodes, but those episodes are a magical break during a long night of "serious" Anime viewing (about 3 disks of Evangelion for example).

When I was a kid I HATED Anime, I wanted all cartoons to look like the western ones I was used to and I couldn't understand all the "weird" things the characters did. The more I watched, though the more I began to appreciate those "clinched" elements. Also learning about the short hand is a good way to start learning about the culture.

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Femellanovis
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On, a side note when I looked back on a lot of the "American" cartoons from my childhood I realized that they were actually imported and westernized animes (a good example is the Transformers).
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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by Earendil18:
[Edited]

I watched the 4 discs of Death Note available through Netflix a month or so ago. What you're referencing hadn't yet occurred at the end of the 4th disc. A spoiler warning would have been nice; might want to edit one in for other people who haven't seen the show. If you do, post mentioning it and I'll delete the spoiler from this post.

[Edited to remove spoiler]

[ July 08, 2008, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

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Trent Destian
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Give it a try:
Baccano
Denno Coil
Beck (MCS)
Gun X Sword
Last Exile
Ōkiku Furikabutte

Code Geass is good for about 5 episodes, don't bother. Just Clamp doing what is does best, over and over and over again. Still bitter on how they screwed up Tsubasa.

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manji
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Japanese television (animation, drama, et cetera) subscribes to its own set of cliches and tropes. It may seem fresh and new when compared to American television, but once you watch enough of it, you can begin to spot the cliches, character types, et cetera, from a mile away.
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fugu13
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Clamp only did the character designs for Code Geass. And it is good for more than 5 episodes [Wink] . But yeah, it isn't as good as it starts out, later in the series.
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Earendil18
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quote:
Originally posted by manji:
Japanese television (animation, drama, et cetera) subscribes to its own set of cliches and tropes. It may seem fresh and new when compared to American television, but once you watch enough of it, you can begin to spot the cliches, character types, et cetera, from a mile away.

What s/he said.

Noemon, I apologize for the no warning. My OP has been edited.

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Juxtapose
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Blayne,
I have no objection to you voicing your opinions, though I disagree with them. I DO object to you mistaking cultural tropes that differ from your own for laziness and a lack of creativity.

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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by Earendil18:
Noemon, I apologize for the no warning. My OP has been edited. [/QB]

No problem, Earendill--I've accidentally done the same thing more than once. I've edited the spoiler out of my post as well.
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Telperion the Silver
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Let us know what series/movies you watch!
I'd love to get your feedback.

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Saephon
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I just picked up Now and Then, Here and There. I'm liking it so far; it reminds me a lot of the original Gundam 0079 anime. The art style looks very dated and simple/lighthearted, but the music and content are very emotional and mature. I too am in a..."serious" mood. I need to find more things like Eva, Death Note, Mononoke, etc. I'd love to find a good mecha anime to get into that isn't like every single other mecha anime. (I love the the U.C. gundam universe...some people tell me Macross/Robotech is worth watching?)
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Blayne Bradley
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I'm watching Monster and I'm horrified with the administration of the German hospital and am glad I live in a country with public healthcare.

"not everyone is of equal importance"

"what do they think we are? Volunteers?"

"we are academics first, life savers second"

DO NO HARM!!!! DO NO HARM!!!

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fugu13
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Blayne, Germany at the time the show is set already had a public healthcare system.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
Blayne,
I have no objection to you voicing your opinions, though I disagree with them. I DO object to you mistaking cultural tropes that differ from your own for laziness and a lack of creativity.

Except I do not
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Blayne Bradley
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I am confused how did this get bumped? I didn't post that today but like 3 weeks ago.
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Telperion the Silver
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Weird.

Blayne, watch "Noein". Seriously. That and "Ergo Proxy".

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anti_maven
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With the exception of Akira, I've not realy seen much animé that really interested me. I have simliar feelings to Blayne, in that it all seems to be huge-mouthed silent screams and big eyed girls with big heads and little bodies.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions, I shall look to being proved a philistine! [Smile]

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Blayne Bradley
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I've seen Noein it was great.
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Blayne Bradley
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Anyone know of any Anime's that are either

A) Borrow heavily from AD&D or 3.5 Ed D&D?

B) Similar to Avatar aside from Naruto and Bleach.

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Juxtapose
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Try "Record of the Lodoss War". I don't know if it borrows specifically from those versions, but it reminded me of D&D quite a bit.
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fugu13
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Neither Naruto nor Bleach is particularly similar to Avatar. Perhaps Dragonball Z? Or any anime based on the Journey to the West. And I'm not aware of any anime borrowing heavily from D&D, but there are some that have very dungeon-crawling feels to them. For one on the darker side of things, have you seen Berserk? On the lighter side, you might like Slayers (Slayers Revolution, the latest, stands reasonably well on its own).
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fugu13
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Oh, and check out Rurouni Kenshin if you haven't yet. It is a classic shonen series, so might fit in with your like for Naruto and Bleach.
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Lanfear
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I don't know. If you can get past the cliche's in Kenshin, you will realize it is an incredible gem, but it definitely has some of the standards of japanese animation.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by fugu13:
Neither Naruto nor Bleach is particularly similar to Avatar. Perhaps Dragonball Z? Or any anime based on the Journey to the West. And I'm not aware of any anime borrowing heavily from D&D, but there are some that have very dungeon-crawling feels to them. For one on the darker side of things, have you seen Berserk? On the lighter side, you might like Slayers (Slayers Revolution, the latest, stands reasonably well on its own).

There are simularities, the way combat works isn't that far different, in terms of element manipulation, just Avatar is better animated.
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T:man
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I second Rurouni Kenshin and Samurai X
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Blayne Bradley
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Seen those unfortunately.
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T:man
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Unfortunately? Those are great.
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Blayne Bradley
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You misinterpret my words, I mean "unfortunately I have already seen them"
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T:man
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Oh.....
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fugu13
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The combat scenes in each are just loosely modeled on various martial arts traditions. That isn't enough to call them very similar at all.
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Earendil18
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Ergo Proxy has kept our interest so far, but I'm not fond of the very very contrived scenes in which characters exposit their motivations and reasons behind their decisions. There's no hints at future plots turns either, so I just feel like I'm getting jerked around. I'm an uninformed viewer, and at the same time, it's very obvious when I'm being informed. I'm honestly wondering if I'm becoming the proverbial "Back in mah day we had REAL anime" kinda person. The cranky neighbor. Maybe it's a phase every young person goes through, because I'm turning 25 this year, and I haven't watched an anime that I genuinely thought was great since...well...a while. They ALL have their cliches, and sometimes, it's just bad storytelling and plotting. They used to get away with it because it was "new" and "refreshing" and "different culture", now I'm just increasingly noticing how badly information is conveyed to the viewer, either through underplaying important elements, then overly talky scenes.
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manji
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One Piece, king of shounen anime/manga.

I hear Fullmetal Alchemist is getting a second run this April.

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Blayne Bradley
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A sequel? Yay! I hope they finally introduce Nicholas Flammel. I was shocked that they never had a single mention of him.

Downloading Code Geass, any anime that has a Chessmaster trope is probably good to watch.

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neo-dragon
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Not so much a sequel as a remake. Basically, rumour has it that it will follow the manga's story this time whereas the first series diverged from it greatly (and is one of the very few manga-based series to do so successfully). The manga is still ongoing but looks like it may be coming to an end soon.
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String
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Without going into to much detail, I'll let you know some of my favorites.

Patlabor movies. Good monster movies, and the last one is also a detective movie, a little.

Jin Roh: the wolf brigade. Historical fiction, maybe loosely based on true events, set in post ww II japan. Believable characters that are very easy to relate to. Military thriller / mystery.

Perfect Blue. Psychotic, twisted, funny, scary, has pop star.

I'll drop another Cowboy Bebop recomendation

Project A:Ko full of cliche' on purpose.

I got to go now, but I'll post more later.

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Traceria
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I like G Gundam. It's less about war than it is about one on one tournament style combat, but it also gets a little wacky with the subplot stuff.

I like G Gundam, too, but more because it cracks me up than for any other reason.
"MASTER ASIA!!!" "DOMON!!!" "RAIN!!" "KYOJI!!!"
Lots of shouting going on. [Wink]
Let's not forget the Statue of Liberty Cannon, Hurricane (aka Windmill for my brother and I) Gundam, or Mermaid Gundam.

Besides Cowboy Bebop, which everyone should experience, I'd say Last Exile is a MUST. You've got some great suggestions up there, so I'll first, second, third or whatever the following:
Trigun
Ghost In The Shell, both seasons
Full Metal Alchemist
Paranoia Agent
Blood
Samurai 7
Outlaw Star
RahXephon
s-CRY-ed
Gundam 08th MS Team (short one, more realistic, as much as giant robots can be)
Naturo

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Traceria
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Completely forgot about Kino's Journey! It doesn't look like much (edit -->) at first glance, but it packs an ethical punch.

That as well as Paranoia Agent and Lain (though that one's been around so long now, it seems) are good if you're looking for series that don't require a huge time commitment. These two are 13 ep series while I think Kino is even shorter.

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Telperion the Silver
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Lain... ahh.. yes. A good one to mess with your mind. Paranoia Agent is a favy. I agree, Last Exile is a must as well.

You've seen Evangelion right?
Gunslinger Girls
Kiddy Grade
ZegaPain
Big O
Metropolis
Blue Sub 6
Full Metal Panic

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Blayne Bradley
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seen Lain, nightmares for a week, seen Kino's Journey twas fun figuring her out as True Neutral, Last Exile was fun, seen scryed, seen FMA, and naruto.

Will take a look at FMP again.

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Traceria
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quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
I agree, Last Exile is a must as well.
....
You've seen Evangelion right?

Last Exile has to be my current favorite, and I've watched it through several times. And the animation style is beautiful to boot. </gush>

Seen NGE, and despite liking it, I kind of think of Rahxephon as the less whiny manifestation of a similar concept.

quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Will take a look at FMP again.

It's hard trying to come up with non-cliched AND good series. I'm sure there are some out there that fall in one or the other categories, but to hit both... Anyway, my brother really liked FMP. Of course, he's in the military and so could relate to the humor more.
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Blayne Bradley
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I tried watching it but got distracted by something and hadn't been able to finish it.
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Telperion the Silver
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You seriously need to finish.
The ending is what is worth the journey.
Seriously fraked up.
SERIOUSLY.

I would love to have Arch-Angel Gabriel as my lover. [Smile]

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Blayne Bradley
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There better not be yoai in it.
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Blayne Bradley
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almost done watching Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi and Azumanga Daioh, I really really really liked Suzumiya, it had the right style of animation I liked, a nice gimmick, and the sort of high school group of friends stories Im addicted to.

Daioh... Eh, it has its funny moments, I really dont like the style, and it REALLY ticked me off when in a scene where someone from Canada or States of England bumped into the Gym teacher rather then actually conversing in english they just had Charliebrown-speak.

I'm pissed.

But it is moderately funny enough ill keep plodding through.


Now I think Ill watch Negima next, Im really interested in some Magic A is Magic A Vance styled magic using anime or D&D styled, anyone have suggestions for that?

**Just in, I saw the most awesome "Enemy Gate is Down" moment in Anime when the SOS Brigade fought a virtual space battle against the Computer club, just pure win.

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Mocke
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detective conan
Doraemon
crayonshinchan
sayonara zetsubo sensei

all fun all very popular and easy to get...except maybe zetsubo

Also, read manga. is betterer

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Blayne Bradley
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manga is betterer for...? Better != Radically different.
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Mocke
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just better. More recently, anime'd mangas have been abused by pointless and stupid side-stories. Is better to read the manga to get the story.
Or the anime takes what was written in a radically different direction (as i think you are mentioning). This isn't always bad, but Manga gives a fuller story.

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Blayne Bradley
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So far I read the Manga for naruto and bleach because either the anime version went off on another dumb non canon side arc filler or is simply plain taking too long.

Im interesting in reading Code Geass's manga as it doesnt have the Knightmare frames whichs makes me think bwha!? Then how the heck did Britannia succeed in invading Japan which was implied to be Great Power in its own right because of having Sakurite.

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Saephon
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I used to be so obsessed with anime...now every time I try to get into a new one, my eyes catch a glimpse of my Berserk manga and I remember what real art is.


*reads*

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