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Update: Family Radio rep on their livestream kinda freaking out about the Rapture not happening, changing story from rolling timezone earthquake to one massive-everywhere earthquake at 3pm Jerusalem time, 8am EDT.
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That's only in about half an hour, isn't it?
Well, at least we'll all know if we've been saved or not by the time I need to do the shopping. I'd hate to have just bought the groceries, be planning dinner, and then have an earthquake destroy the world.
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Now he's using bible quotes his daughter dug up to explain that maybe it's 6pm Jerusalem time, not 3pm.
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Technically, if you want to go by Jerusalem time, you would go by when sunset is. The ancient Hebrew reckoning in the Bible was that days are observed from sunset to sunset. This is seen in Genesis one, when the days of Creation week start with the dark period, the "evening" followed by the light portion, the "morning." This is also how the Sabbath was specifically commanded by God to be designated: "It is to be a sabbath of complete rest to you, and you shall humble your souls; on the ninth of the month at evening, from evening until evening you shall keep your sabbath." (Leviticus 23:32; NASB) The same period was still observed in New Testament times by the Jews, despite the introduction of the Roman custom of marking days from midnight to midnight.
The "rapture" is a false doctrine derrived from wresting a very few metaphorical statements out of context. There are no time prophecies in the Bible that designate the hour or even day when Christ will return (in any sense). "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." (Matthew 24:36; NKJV) Camping tried to explain away this text, but he failed. It is too plain and explicit.
The world most definitely will not end today. However, anyone could get hit by a truck. So it still would behoove anyone get right with God. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God wants our primary motivation for this to be love, not fear.
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I'm listening to the preacher just about lose his marbles on the radio. He's just getting more and more crazy.
He's taking calls (and getting pranked a lot — got rickrolled once and had no idea what was going on) and blathering a lot of eschatological nuttiness and getting just more .. manic, and off the wall.
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We're watching the pain of discontinuity in action, from yet another person who's just oh so sure they got it all figured out.
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If I could be there to console this minister right now, I'd do it. I'd sit down with him and say "Cheer up, harold camping, it's not the end of the worl ... er .. "
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I'm just so surprised that not a single person qualified for rapture treatment. Didn't see that one coming.
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Man, can you imagine being that guy and the complete and utter dissapointment he must have felt? He's 80-something years old so you know he's not going to get the chance to do something else to make up for this. He doesn't have much time left as it is. I kinda feel bad for him because he basically made a huge fool out of himself in front of the entire country.
Still...what an idiot.
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How many people actually bought in to this? My impression is that it was a really, really tiny group and everyone else just thought it was fun to joke about. All of the evangelical Christians I know were big on "no man will know the hour". Is my impression wrong?
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Gosh, it's quiet around here... Where is everyone? No line at the gas station or for lottery tickets... Is today a holiday or something?
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Our pastor today in church (SDA) preached about the many texts that spell out the manner of Christ's return, that it will not be secret, but will be witnessed by everyone. He will return in "like manner" as He ascended--when His disciples watched Him physically rise up into the sky to be received into the clouds of heaven. (See Acts 1:9-11) None of the apostles wrote any epistles exhorting believers to be ready for any secret coming of Christ.
What I really dislike is the way this will encourage unbelievers to disregard any message that Christ is returning soon. As Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour, but we can know by the signs of the times--which He spelled out in Matthew 24--that His coming is nearing. But in fact, He did imply that false predictions like Harold Camping's are among those signs that His true Second Coming is getting nearer. He said if someone says He is in the desert, do not go. And if someone says He is in the inner chambers, do not go. There will be false christs and false prophets. (See Mat. 24:24-26) But where these counterfeits exist, there must also be the true. All these counterfeits are designed to distract us from the true. Camping may not have been doing this deliberately--but he allowed himself to be duped into doing this. It is evidence of the destructive effect of the Rapture doctrine.
[ May 21, 2011, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
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More backpedaling, we've passed something like several time slots that were apparently "okay guys, this one's it, FOR REAL THIS TIME"
Silly Family Radio, first thing religions should learn is to avoid making statements that are easily falsifiable.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: What I really dislike is the way this will encourage unbelievers to disregard any message that Christ is returning soon. As Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour, but we can know by the signs of the times--which He spelled out in Matthew 24--that His coming is nearing. But in fact, He did imply that false predictions like Harold Camping's are among those signs that His true Second Coming is getting nearer. He said if someone says He is in the desert, do not go. And if someone says He is in the inner chambers, do not go. There will be false christs and false prophets. (See Mat. 24:24-26) But where these counterfeits exist, there must also be the true. All these counterfeits are designed to distract us from the true. Camping may not have been doing this deliberately--but he allowed himself to be duped into doing this. It is evidence of the destructive effect of the Rapture doctrine.
Well as for me, I tend to be skeptical of claims that Jesus is comin' soon because people have been saying' that since He left (and for some Christians, that's left *both* times no less).
The fact of centuries or milleniaof prediction of return coupled the equally undeniable fact of a lack of a return will lead any mind that's examining the thing fairly-that hasn't already made up its mind, that is-with a healthy dose of skepticism. That 'soon' business I mean.
Likewise with the counterfeit claim. The fact that some whack jobs predicted something probably wrong doesn't at all mean they only got their *math* wrong, but the other substance of their claims right. By that reasoning, any wrong prediction that's proven wrong serves as evidence for...something other than it's being wrong. That just doesn't make sense, again unless your mind is already made up.
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And if you are surprised and this is an isolated case, will you be any more likely than camping to publicly admit you were wrong?
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He wouldn't be wrong in that case. He would be wrong if it were an isolated case and he weren't surprised. Strange thing to want him to admit publicly, though. "I'm sorry I was wrong about my feelings. Next time I'll try to be more sure of whether or not I'll be surprised."
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Rabbit, what's to admit? Everyone can see he was wrong. What he needs to do is recognize that his methods of interpreting the Bible are unsound. As the Apostle Peter said, "No prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20). The only way I know to avoid a private interpretation is to use sound, scholarly objective methods, which have to include allowing the Bible itself to supply the definitions for all the symbol used, apply the prophecies to the time in history and to the national or other entities specifically indicated in the text, and use straightforward and reasonable means for determining what passages are meant to be literal and which are meant to be figurative. We can do this with most works of literature. Why does it suddenly become hard when it comes to the Bible? If you remember it is God's Word, and you want to find out what God meant, and that it is not your word to try to bend it and fashion it to suit your imaginative ideas, then there are ways to arrive at a proper understanding that is not one you just made up.
If I may give one specific example, Tim Lahaye, one of the co-writers for the Left Behind series of novels, claimed at one point that he believed you should take as figurative only those prophetic passages in Revelation that use the words "like" or "as it were." Anything else should be regarded as literal. Thus he winds up taking some very bizarre things literally. This methodology is plainly contradicted by Revelation 17:15: "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." This explicitly tells us that "waters" is a figurative symbol, not literal, and gives us the definition of the symbol. Yet when you read earlier in the chapter, the prophecy of the woman sitting amid the waters never uses the words "like" or "as it were." Thus LaHaye's confessed methodology for his interpretation is contradicted.
If you take reasonable notice of such plain definitions of what symbols mean, what are the times and entities the text itself indicates they should be applied to, and what the context indicates about whether it is literal narrative or figuative, you can arrive at an interpretation that is entirely consistent and makes perfect sense, and is not just something you dreamed up. It is important to know that Harold Camping did not do this. Nor did/does LaHaye. The judgment that is most warranted of them is that they show themselves to be very poor Bible students. They are self-proclaimed "scholars" who have shown that they deserve to be ashamed of their poor scholarship.
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quote:And if you are surprised and this is an isolated case, will you be any more likely than camping to publicly admit you were wrong?
It took me awhile to parse this. At first glance it seemed like if I was surprised, I would either admit I was wrong or go camping.
Let's just say that I anticipated that some of Camping's followers would have their world shattered, and would react in extreme fashion. So this news article didn't surprise me. I don't pretend to be able to predict HOW these people will react, but given that some of them have quit their jobs and given away their worldly possessions, I suspect there will be fallout.
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quote:If you take reasonable notice of such plain definitions of what symbols mean, what are the times and entities the text itself indicates they should be applied to, and what the context indicates about whether it is literal narrative or figuative, you can arrive at an interpretation that is entirely consistent and makes perfect sense, and is not just something you dreamed up.
I just need to remind people that in a decade of making various predictions on this site, Ron has yet to have ONE come anywhere even close to true.
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quote:I just need to remind people that in a decade of making various predictions on this site, Ron has yet to have ONE come anywhere even close to true.
A further reminder: the way to demonstrate that predictions have been accurate, and that further predictions should be greeted with anything other than skepticism, is to point to those predictions and the outcomes that matched up, along with the predictions that weren't verified, so they can be compared. It is not to simply state, in a tone of righteous indignation, that it is known that one has been correct many times in the past and that one's detractors are full of bunk and other personal defects and that one therefore isn't beholden to respond to direct challenges.
That's the way to avoid demonstrating accurate predictions.
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God, I am so tired of all my Facebook friends cracking unoriginal jokes about this May 21 thing. Shouldn't it at least be over now?
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We were at a child's birthday party during the rapture last night, so apparently all our kids are little heathens after all! I KNEW it!
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quote:California preacher Harold Camping says his prophecy that the world would end was off by five months because Judgment Day actually will come on October 21.
The independent Christian radio host said Monday the apocalypse will come five months after May 21, the original date he predicted.
Mr. Camping says he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.
quote: Saturday was “an invisible judgment day” in which a spiritual judgment took place, he said. But the timing and the structure is the same as it has always been, he said.
The Yahoo version of this article quotes him as promising that we will still be consumed by a fireball on October 21st. Which just leaves me wondering if it's going to be one of them invisible fireballs.
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quote:Mr. Camping says he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.
Sounds like he got some pity sex.
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