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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Presidential General Election News & Discussion Center 2016 (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Presidential General Election News & Discussion Center 2016
kmbboots
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If "all caps = yelling" as you posited, you "yelled" at me in your first post in this exchange. And at least three more times- including in a post complaining about my "yelling". You called me and my questions "wearisome" twice and me and implied that I was crazy. Also, the tip of the spear whatever that means.

Look, MrSquicky hardly needs you to leap to his defense. He can respond to me or not as he chooses.

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Stone_Wolf_
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You mock me for calling you the tip of the spear w/o even knowing what the phrase means?

I'm all but done w you

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kmbboots
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No. That wasn't mocking you; that was an example of you overreacting.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Do you know what that phrase means?
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kmbboots
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*sigh* I know what it means to normal people - first into a war zone, elite soldiers who are the cutting edge in an attack. What it means to you? I couldn't really say but I am confident that it qualifies as an overreaction.
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Stone_Wolf_
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"Normal people"

You aren't nice boots

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Stone_Wolf_
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
No. That wasn't mocking you; that was an example of you overreacting.

quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Honey, if my asking softball questions is the "tip of the spear" you really are in trouble.

You fooled me.

My whole point is simply this:

I understand why MrSquiggy overreacted and expressed wearyness...you are the first to fight...the beginning of the resistance

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kmbboots
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Are you entirely sure MrSquicky was reacting to my post?

Fooled you about what? Both of those are plain statements.

You might want to reread the exchange one more time.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Regardless of your intent, your words are causing hurt feelings, so, if that is something you care about, you might reconsider your approach.

Either way, I strongly feel the useful part of our interactions has ceased, if in fact, it ever existed.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Fooled me that your comment was not in fact mockery.
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kmbboots
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For reference:

"Could you elaborate" "AUGGGHHH. It's a trap!!!" [Roll Eyes] was mocking you. The rest you can take at face value.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Regardless of your intent, your words are causing hurt feelings, so, if that is something you care about, you might reconsider your approach.
*laugh* SW, you have a fascinating method of social interaction. Do you find that it generally works for you?
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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:

Either way, I strongly feel the useful part of our interactions has ceased, if in fact, it ever existed.

It didn't.
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ElJay
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For the record, I had a similar reaction to "Boy Scout conservatism" as I assume Kate did. 1) I'm sure it's not intentionally excluding women. 2) Regardless, to women, it feels exclusive/unwelcoming. Like the people coming up with it don't consider us worth recruiting for their movement. 3) Since the current GOP is failing to win women's votes, trying to start a reform movement in a way that feels unwelcoming to women is probably not the best option. 4) Not recognizing that is part of the problem -- you can say the intention "of course" isn't to exclude women all you want, but even the slightest bit of thought, if you cared about how women would react, would tell you the answer was "not well." The fact that you didn't come up with that on your own shows that you didn't think about it.

Women are over 50% of the population. We can't be treated as a demographic group to be won, there are as many subdivisions among us as there are among men, with similarly differing concerns. Any movement that doesn't include women in the development stage isn't going to work, because it's going to make these incredibly tone deaf mistakes. So if you want to start a movement that only appeals to a very specific segment of middle class white men, fine, boy scouts it is. But middle class white men are the demographic Republicans currently do best in. So the BEST I could see this doing is recruiting better (honest, trustworthy, loyal, brave) male candidates, which absolutely would be a good thing. But it's not going to save the Republican party, because you can't win an election with just white men anymore. And there's already signs that Republican women are moving away from the party in disgust over the party's continued support of Trump in light of the allegations of inappropriate sexual conduct. Any movement to restore the party to its former values that doesn't take that into account and actively work to get those voters back is just putting the party in a holding pattern.

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Stone_Wolf_
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quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
Can we focus the mocking on Donald Trump? Thx.

Yes please
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Stone_Wolf_
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Do you mind if I ask the genesis of your nick? It seems overtly masculine, but you just said "us" in reference to women.
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TomDavidson
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It's phonetic.
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Emreecheek
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#teamKate
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ElJay
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What seems masculine about it?

Also, I specifically told you in another thread that I'm a woman, fairly recently.

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Stone_Wolf_
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El is the masculine "the" in Spanish...

Jay is a boy's name...

And all I remember you saying was to be careful of masculine assumptions...when you misunderstood my joke about Stone_Henge_

And I already am already careful

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ElJay
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It's my initials spelled out. LJ = ElJay. You're apparently not careful enough if after that you still thought I was male.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I never assumed
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ElJay
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You called me "my brother." How is that not assuming?
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Stone_Wolf_
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"My brother Stone_Henge_" is a joke based on my username. I tried to explain that to you.
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ElJay
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Wow. You have a very odd definition of "explain." I just went back and reread, and you just repeated it a couple times. I don't see anything that could be considered an explanation, and honestly I had no idea what you were talking about until your last post here.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I am an only child, I do not banter w/ the title of "brother", as I've always wanted one and only felt as if I have trusted two male non blood relatives in my whole life enough to call them so.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Sorry for the miscommunication...altho please take into consideration that even a failed attempt at an explanation is still an attempt.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Had I simply repeated what you said, it would look like this: "ElJay, my brother" not, "My brother, Stone_Henge_" I then tried to expand on the joke..."we call him Hengy"...i.e. Stone_Dad_, Stone_Mom_ and myself, Stone_Wolf_, call Stone_Henge_, my brother, "Hengey".
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kmbboots
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Please, somebody, take the shovel away.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I dislike you boots
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ElJay
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You do banter with the title of brother.

quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
"My brother Stone_Henge_" is a joke based on my username. I tried to explain that to you.

Joke = banter.

That's really irrelevant to the conversation, of course. Unless you're only interested in calling Boots wearisome for pointing out obvious sexism.

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Stone_Wolf_
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I do not lightly grant that title upon people, however, I am comfortable joking that I have brother for the sake of humor, if you see the distinction and therefore my point in mentioning in the first
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Stone_Wolf_
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And I didn't call boots herself tiresome (altho that seems the common take away [Dont Know] ) but her seemingly unrelenting argumenitivness and her disparaging comments are quite wearysome, I assure you.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm unconvinced that referencing a particular coda (that of the boy scouts) is in fact sexist.

I'll grant you it is as sexist as it is ageist, as I do not qualify myself as a boy.

But honestly, Mr.Squicky was suggesting the kernel of an idea, and simply referencing a known ideology, which happened to have "boy" in the name.

I happened to like the idea someone mentioned if just referring to it as "scout conservatives"...as aren't the tenants of the girl scouts the same as the boy ones?

That's why discussion and colaberation are such a great thing, however, this place, Hatrack, is becoming openly hostile to any conversation involving "conservatives", or so I see it at least.

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Sean Monahan
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I'm sorry, but is it really necessary for so many threads on this board to degenerate into this one-on-one bickering? It seems to happen quite a lot lately. There are a *ton* of interestingly titled threads here, and there is a wearisome number of them that end exactly this way. Personally, I would rather the board was less active, then to get my hopes up for interesting discussion when I see a thread bumped, only to come here and find this.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I apologize...I'm not trying to degenerate this thread, or participate in bickering.
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ElJay
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No, the girl scout tenants are not the same. They're separate organizations, since the boy scouts weren't interested in letting girls in.

Motto: The Girl Scout motto is "Be prepared." In the 1947 Girl Scout Handbook, the motto was explained this way: "A Girl Scout is ready to help out wherever she is needed. Willingness to serve is not enough; you must know how to do the job well, even in an emergency." The same holds true today.

Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.


Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.

----

The one on one bickering is a function of how few people are checking the board. I know I'm stating the obvious, but if only a few people are here, well, only a few people are talking to each other.

----

So, two women are telling you calling a movement something with "boy" in the title would feel exclusionary to them. You are arguing that it's not sexist to do so. Can you see how this is dismissive of our lived experience?

If the GOAL is to revive the Republican party, and one of the main reasons the party is failing is that women are leaving in droves, listening to women when they tell you that something feels unwelcoming to them would be a great place to start, regardless of if you think it shouldn't feel that way.

Of course it's not just women the Republican party is losing, it's also racial minorities. The boy scouts discriminated against Black American boys until a lawsuit in 1974 made them stop, and still are overwhelmingly white. So the term is unlikely to hit a lot of the right nostalgia buttons for Black or Latino men, either. (When I went looking for demographic info I found a lot of papers by the BSA talking about how Latino families were a hard sell because they didn't have a tradition of scouting. They are currently doing outreach to the community, since it's the fastest growing group in the US, but don't seem to be having much success.)

Shall we talk about how it's likely to resonate with Log Cabin Republicans?

So, as I said before, the problem with the idea is it's only going to appeal to the people who are already most likely to vote Republican, not ANY of the demographics they need to win back to be a viable party again. This isn't me being hostile to conservatives. This is me providing constructive criticism. The whole point of discussing things with people not like you is to hear the viewpoints you would miss, isn't it?

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Stone_Wolf_
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First, I agree that discussion is vital and helpful.

Second, I would like to note that I have enjoyed our interactions, despite miscommunications.

D: I am not particularly in favor of the name "Boy Scout Conservative"...my first suggestion was "Non-asshatery conservative"...my point was that Mr. Squicky did not seem set on the name, but was trying to say (to me at least, where are you Sqicky?) that what conservatives really need is some effing morals...like this one morality based group...

That everyone here agrees that Republicans are basically in need of an overhaul should make the following discussion much easier.

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Stone_Wolf_
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P.S. I am a registered Libertarian (Man I wish Garry Johnson was sane)
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zlogdanbr
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Monahan:
I'm sorry, but is it really necessary for so many threads on this board to degenerate into this one-on-one bickering? It seems to happen quite a lot lately. There are a *ton* of interestingly titled threads here, and there is a wearisome number of them that end exactly this way. Personally, I would rather the board was less active, then to get my hopes up for interesting discussion when I see a thread bumped, only to come here and find this.

Sometimes I ask myself if people here still reads Orson Scott Card or science fiction or dark fantasy at all because it seems that these tastes are too mundane and intellectually not acceptable. :-)

I have been a member of Michael Moorcock forum for years and there we have a vast range of people: gay, straight, leftists, right wingers, geeks, literates, metal heads, funky players, liberal activists, atheists and non atheists, vegans and meat eaters, programmers, freedom fighters and space buccaneers but It is really impossible to remember more than one or two flamed discussions like those I have seen here since last April. Might be something age related, because we are mostly over 40s. [/qb][/QUOTE]

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ElJay
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[ROFL]

I don't know how old Stone Wolf is, but everyone else in the conversation is over 40.

Did you read PanaceaSanans's recent attempt at revival threads? Many of the diverse people who used to be active here explained why they're not anymore in them.

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theamazeeaz
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I'm 30 as it happens.

Again, can we go back to making fun of Donald Trump?

Thanks.

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theamazeeaz
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To start us off, apparently someone dressed as Donald Duck has been running around Trump rallies and Trump Tower.

http://time.com/4545543/hillary-clinton-donald-duck-trump-veritas/

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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm 36
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Stone_Wolf_
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Man uses pick axe to remove Trump's name from the Hollywood walk of fame:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/10/26/video-shows-donald-trumps-hollywood-walk-of-fame-star-destroyed/?client=ms-and roid-verizon

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theamazeeaz
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That's pretty terrible. I don't support vandalism.
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Stone_Wolf_
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It's a vid...the guy doing it hands out the brass letters to the crowd as souvenirs...and apologizing to the crowd for the flying stone chips...

According to this aricle:

quote:
...the man said he planned to auction off the star and give the money to women who have accused the Republican presidential nominee and former “Apprentice” host sexual assault.


[ October 26, 2016, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Stone_Wolf_ ]

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Heisenberg
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I'm 32!
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theamazeeaz
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
It's a vid...the guy doing it hands out the brass letters to the crowd as souvenirs...and apologizing to the crowd for the flying stone chips...

According to this aricle:

quote:
...the man said he planned to auction off the star and give the money to women who have accused the Republican presidential nominee and former “Apprentice” host sexual assault.

... And the linked article says they are prosecuting the guy for vandalism. Can I walk into a museum, break something I don't like and sell the pieces for my favorite group?

No.

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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm sure he will wear his jail time as a badge of pride.
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