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Author Topic: Presidential General Election News & Discussion Center 2016
Rakeesh
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You have a constitutional right to vote and not be charged for it, or be put to trouble to be permitted to do it.

Getting a driver's license isn't free. Even when government issued ID is free it can often be troublesome to get. So, Ron, would you support free and easy access to government issued ID for anyone who wants it?

Also, though I suspect you already know this, your reference to flying is irrelevant.

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kmbboots
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And the documents required to get them.
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
NobleHunter, I have a constitutional right not to have someone else pretend to be me and vote in my name.

I also have a constitutional right to expect of my country that we have honest elections.

Poll taxes for voting were found to be unconstitutional, being forced to spend money to get ID to be able to vote is akin to a poll tax Ron; and thus unconstitutional.

If you're super worried about elections not being honest without government ID, then why not have a Federal issued ID that's issued automatically when you turn ID (You can have this handled in highschool just like Quebec does for our transportation passes) while also automatically opting in everyone into being registered to vote (with an option to opt out if you so choose?).

This way everyone wins, you can be sure that your elections are honest because everyone will have picture ID; why not support this?

This is putting aside the fact that it has been proven that there is no statistically significant voter fraud in the last few elections. The total number of fraudulent ballots was 37 in 2012 iirc.

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Samprimary
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there has been no significant voter fraud

there have been significantly unconstitutional attempts at preventing minorities from voting

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Ron Lambert
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I don't care if photo ID is made available for free. It is an absolute necessity that elections are secure. I don't want felons, illegal aliens, and cemetery residents to be able to vote. Only living citizens in good standing with the law should be able to vote. I realize this strikes at the heart of key liberal Democrat constituencies.
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I don't care if photo ID is made available for free. It is an absolute necessity that elections are secure. I don't want felons, illegal aliens, and cemetery residents to be able to vote. Only living citizens in good standing with the law should be able to vote. I realize this strikes at the heart of key liberal Democrat constituencies.

Again, this has pretty much not happened in the modern democratic landscape. But what has happened, was laws passed to prevent the poor from voting.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I don't care if photo ID is made available for free. It is an absolute necessity that elections are secure. I don't want felons, illegal aliens, and cemetery residents to be able to vote. Only living citizens in good standing with the law should be able to vote. I realize this strikes at the heart of key liberal Democrat constituencies.

Your racist rhetoric aside Ron, what evidence do you have that there is the sort of voter fraud in person identification would prevent is happening? Elections *are* secure. You're claiming a conspiracy-provide some evidence for it, and be prepared to have it challenged.

...is what I would say to a man with integrity in discussions of politics.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I don't care if photo ID is made available for free. It is an absolute necessity that elections are secure. I don't want felons, illegal aliens, and cemetery residents to be able to vote. Only living citizens in good standing with the law should be able to vote. I realize this strikes at the heart of key liberal Democrat constituencies.

there has been no significant voter fraud

there have been significantly unconstitutional attempts at preventing minorities from voting

there has been no significant voter fraud

there have been significantly unconstitutional attempts at preventing minorities from voting

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I don't care if photo ID is made available for free. It is an absolute necessity that elections are secure. I don't want felons, illegal aliens, and cemetery residents to be able to vote. Only living citizens in good standing with the law should be able to vote. I realize this strikes at the heart of key liberal Democrat constituencies.

there

has

been

no

significant

voter

fraud

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Samprimary
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here is a link to a news story detailing how the north carolina GOP using fears of 'voter fraud making elections insecure' to pass laws whose actual intent (AS THEY ALWAYS ARE) to prevent minorities from voting because minorities vote against the GOP

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/opinion/north-carolinas-voting-restrictions-struck-down-as-racist.html?_r=0

quote:
The scurrilous attempt by North Carolina Republicans to suppress the rising power of black voters was struck down on Friday by a federal appeals court that concluded that the state’s voting strictures “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”

The decision means that the voting power of black citizens in the important swing state will not be hobbled in November by a repressive 2013 law that the court found was steeped in blatant racism, in violation of the Constitution. “Because of race, the Legislature enacted one of the largest restrictions of the franchise in modern North Carolina history,” the court ruled.

The court, in finding that the law was designed as a deliberate tool to reduce the African-American vote, is the latest to beat back attempts by Republican statehouses to interfere with minority and new voters.

here is a link to a news story detailing how voter fraud influenced a US election ever

http://www.thereisnothinghere.nope/thislinkgoestonothing/thisisnotarealsite/becausetheresnosignificantvoterfraud/soicantlinktoastorydetailingsomething that doesntexist

quote:
this website doesn't exist, ron lambert, because the shit you are talking about never happened, so it doesn't exist, i guess that's okay because you like to believe a lot of shit that doesn't exist, like the 'barack nate dhlana' video you use to uphold your fiercely bigoted beliefs about obama being born in kenya. well anyway there's no significant voter fraud seeya

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Ron Lambert
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Samprimary, you are obviously sorely ignorant about history. Voter fraud is rife in every election. The cemetery vote in Chicago is what enabled JFK to win over Nixon. Democrats like to hide behind the dishonest refrain, "You can't really prove it, can you?" Even though time and again, comparison with voter records and lists of those who were dead afterwards have shown that lots of people were recorded as voting when they were dead. This is documented, over and over. There are even a very few cases where Republicans in some places in the south were guilty of election fraud, though it is mainly liberal Democrats who are guilty. You just don't care, and pretend the evidence is not conclusive. So they keep getting away with it, and pretend it has never happened. It is because of people like you that honest Americans demand that there be strict voter ID verification. How can anyone not see the irresistable logic that voter ID verification is essential for the integrity of any election?

[ November 13, 2016, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Rakeesh
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If it happens all the time and is documented after the fact since Kennedy, by all means show us. Dare you.
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Ron Lambert
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Here are a few links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/electionfraud/
https://www.conservativeoutfitters.com/blogs/news/video-voter-fraud-caught-on-camera-in-pennsylvania-election-2016

quote:
According to the National Review, undercover agents with New York City Department of Investigations "showed up at 63 polling places [in the fall of 2013] and pretended to be voters who should have been turned away by election officials."

In 61 instances, or 97 percent of the time, the testers were allowed to vote. ... Given that someone who is dead, is in jail, or has moved isn’t likely to complain if someone votes in his name, how do we know that voter fraud at the polls isn’t a problem? An ounce of prevention — in the form of voter ID and better training of poll workers — should be among the minimum precautions taken to prevent an electoral miscarriage or meltdown in a close race.

Link: https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_fraud

quote:
Published on Oct 18, 2016

In the second video of James O'Keefe's new explosive series on the DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign, Democratic party operatives tell us how to successfully commit voter fraud on a massive scale. Scott Foval, who has since been fired, admits that the Democrats have been rigging elections for fifty years.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs

quote:
On the other hand, some fraud clearly occurred in Cook County. At least three people were sent to jail for election-related crimes, and 677 others were indicted before being acquitted by Judge John M. Karns, a Daley crony. Many of the allegations involved practices that wouldn't be detected by a recount, leading the conservative Chicago Tribune, among others, to conclude that "once an election has been stolen in Cook County, it stays stolen." What's more, according to journalist Seymour Hersh, a former Justice Department prosecutor who heard tapes of FBI wiretaps from the period believed that Illinois was rightfully Nixon's. Hersh also has written that J. Edgar Hoover believed Nixon actually won the presidency but in deciding to follow normal procedures and refer the FBI's findings to the attorney general—as of Jan. 20, 1961, Robert F. Kennedy—he effectively buried the case.
Link: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2000/10/was_nixon_robbed.html

quote:
But state and city elections officials contend the massive voting fraud of the past is history, citing new technology and changes in voting laws have made the potential for fraud a fraction of what existed in the past. They say the concern now is voter intimidation techniques.

“We don’t claim perfection. We know we’re trying to live down the history of this agency from our parents’ and our grandparents’ generations,” said Jim Allen, spokesman for the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

Link: http://www.heraldnet.com/news/official-chicago-legacy-of-voter-fraud-has-been-cleaned-up/

Don't read just the parts of these articles that you might like; read all the articles, and take due note of what is actually admitted. Election fraud does and has always existed, even--as some admit--on a massive scale. And usually it is Democrats committing it.

[ November 13, 2016, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I can't provide any actual evidence that voter fraud happened above an absolutely non-significant quantity, or that the potential effects of such action were historically taken against conservatives. I really can't! But I'm really not used to conceding the point so I went and found some garbage from literally Project Veritas that I am going to link and use to try to support my false worldview.

I think the only thing I can do now is assume that what you are saying is contradicted by showing any indication whatsoever by any source whatsoever, even James O'Keefe, that voting fraud ever happened at all. I will assume that providing this information makes me right and you wrong. I'm not going to be able to understand why not. I'll never change.

I know it's really disappointingly "ron lambert" of me but ... guys, I just can't help it. If you expected better of me you should have stopped years ago. I'm sorry, everyone. I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

Oh, it's okay, Ron ol' buddy. We can't all be perfect. You do you. I guess those links are at least amusing though.
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Samprimary, you are obviously sorely ignorant about history.

I don't want to hear this from someone who thinks the Germans were close to winning WWII in late 1941.
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Ron Lambert
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Samprimary, I never posted what you say I posted.

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I can't provide any actual evidence that voter fraud happened above an absolutely non-significant quantity, or that the potential effects of such action were historically taken against conservatives. I really can't! But I'm really not used to conceding the point so I went and found some garbage from literally Project Veritas that I am going to link and use to try to support my false worldview.

I think the only thing I can do now is assume that what you are saying is contradicted by showing any indication whatsoever by any source whatsoever, even James O'Keefe, that voting fraud ever happened at all. I will assume that providing this information makes me right and you wrong. I'm not going to be able to understand why not. I'll never change.

I know it's really disappointingly "ron lambert" of me but ... guys, I just can't help it. If you expected better of me you should have stopped years ago. I'm sorry, everyone. I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

I have never said any such stupid thing as the above.

Elison, just goes to show--"To make a conservative angry, tell him a lie. To make a liberal angry, tell him the truth." I backed up what I said with facts, which you of course ignored, and resorted to the usual liberal's recourse: closed-minded insult and derision.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Elison, just goes to show--"To make Ron angry, remind him that he has a lot of trouble with the truth, like with WWII history, birtherism, climate science, or literally anything involving biology and evolutionary theory."

It's ok ron we know
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Rakeesh
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Ron, your 'sources' were in two cases from sources so fanatical they make even other non-fanatical conservatives uncomfortable. I realize I should've specified: something *credible*, not your usual bullshit of finding one or two sources as fanatic as you and then citing them as representative experts, such as your refrain about the 'Clinton Crime Family', where you scroll past scores of law enforcement officials who say 'yeah that's crazy' and find one who doesn't.
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Ron Lambert
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Rakeesh--figured you would say something utterly dishonest like that. Obviously you have not done any internet searches at all on the subject, have you? I gave you six links, and quoted from four of them. Can you read those articles and still maintain there has never been any case of election fraud? This is why I have no respect for liberals--they don't even know how to debate anything honestly. They react to contrary facts with blind rejection, followed by insult and derision. How can you bigots even function in the real world? The professors who brainwashed you with misinformation should be prosecuted. That is what is really harming this country, more than anything else.
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NobleHunter
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The Slate link seems to support the idea there's a lack of significant voter fraud. Rather than airy generalizations, there was a serious investigation into a specific instance. They didn't really find much and so they're left with well this one county is ridiculously corrupt, so...

The Heraldnet article says there has been cheating but not any more. Fixed, you'll note, without voter ID or restricting absentee voting or other methods the GOP seems so fond of.

Ballotpedia says it could be done without offering any proof that it is done. While a hallmark of conspiracy theory thinking, I trust you don't expect it to be convincing.

Did you even read your links?

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Ron Lambert
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Noblehunter, like I said, don't just seize on the portions of the articles you like--such as the efforts made to eliminate election fraud. NOTICE WHAT IS ACTUALLY ADMITTED.

I certainly did read all the article in those links. That is why I said what I did. I know how you liberals have a proclivity for seizing on portions you like, and ignoring everything else. You just can't help yourselves, can you? You've been programmed by professors who took your tuition money and then taught you anti-knowledge. Their own personal, biased opinions asserted falsely as historical fact, which you had to agree with on pain of being marked down in your grades. You poor wretches don't even realize how sorely you've been victimized.

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Elison R. Salazar
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"NOTICE WHAT IS ACTUALLY ADMITTED"

Like all of the GOP politicians who state outright that the purpose of Voter ID is to hurt the Democrats and not to actually fight instances of voter fraud? (Which again, does not actually happen, there were only 37 instances in 2012).

quote:

I know how you liberals have a proclivity for seizing on portions you like, and ignoring everything else.

And I know how YOU, you alone, you specifically, aren't an honest, credible individual in this discussion. Maybe there are a lot of Conservatives who are just like you, but I'm going to hold you accountable for your own systematic dishonesty.
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NobleHunter
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I noticed only one article of the three I read said there'd been substantial fraud in the past and that the fraud significantly pre-dates the GOP's current mania for voter ID.

I only took one course on American history and it was visual culture. So my professor's opinions really have nothing to do with this, though if you want to discuss 18th marriage law in England, your bizarre allegation would at least be on topic.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I know how you liberals have a proclivity for seizing on portions you like, and ignoring everything else. You just can't help yourselves, can you?

You poor wretches don't even realize how sorely you've been victimized.

Can we have a photo of you so we can put it in the dictionary under "psychological projection"
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King of Men
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Oh, come on, people. It should be possible to either argue in sufficiently good faith that I don't find myself defending Ron Lambert, of all people; or else to shut your pie holes. He did, in fact, provide some sources. I have not seen anyone actually engage with those links, except to shout "unclean, unclean!". And Samprimary, repeated assertion does not an argument make. As for 'racist arguments', when everything is racist, nothing is; you'd think this election might have highlighted the futility of crying wolf on the point. At this point it's not even an accusation, it's more like a nervous tic.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Did someone call me?
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
Oh, come on, people. It should be possible to either argue in sufficiently good faith that I don't find myself defending Ron Lambert, of all people; or else to shut your pie holes. He did, in fact, provide some sources. I have not seen anyone actually engage with those links, except to shout "unclean, unclean!". And Samprimary, repeated assertion does not an argument make. As for 'racist arguments', when everything is racist, nothing is; you'd think this election might have highlighted the futility of crying wolf on the point. At this point it's not even an accusation, it's more like a nervous tic.

Extraordinary claims, that the Democrats are engaging in persuasive voter fraud, or that voter fraud is happening at levels that voter ID is necessary for Ron to feel that his constitutional rights are not being violated, require extraordinary evidence.

NobleHunter already did click the links and did the odious task of having to vet Ron's sources and as expected they are questionable or otherwise out of context.

quote:

It should be possible to either argue in sufficiently good faith

Ron has proven a long time ago that not only does he not do this, but he thinks we're demons going to hell for disagreeing with him.

Also he still insists he had "answered" my rebuttal to him in a previous thread but he never did, I even dug up the time stamps.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
Oh, come on, people. It should be possible to either argue in sufficiently good faith that I don't find myself defending Ron Lambert, of all people; or else to shut your pie holes.

are you arguing with ron lambert in sufficiently good faith, or is this more that you're just upset most people don't take him seriously for you anymore
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Samprimary
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like i mean if you want to be the next person to find out that if you present detailed information about why ron is wrong, he will just stridently fail to be able to comprehend it and then pathologically demean you, please lead by example rather than wondering why people don't spend too much energy to kick at lucy footballs anymore re: ron
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King of Men
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quote:
Ron has proven a long time ago that not only does he not do this, but he thinks we're demons going to hell for disagreeing with him.
This is true. So that's an excellent argument for going to the second of my two proposed courses of action, to wit, shutting the f*ck up and ignoring him. Like I'm about to do with Samp.
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Ron Lambert
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Elison R. Salazar, I really must object to you putting words in my mouth, crediting me with saying things I never said. All you and your cohorts have ever done is avoid dealing with the evidence and sound arguments I present, then you lie about it and pretend that somehow you "defeated" me in argument. It gets to the point where you are so utterly silly in your comments that I have chosen you aren't worth any more of my time and effort. Then of course you use that to claim victory. All you do by using such infantile tactics is prove that I am right, and demonstrate that you are in the Wrong.

[ November 15, 2016, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Ron Lambert
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It has been wisely observed that nothing is more pitiable than a partisan who believes his own propaganda. So in the interest of bringing some solace to the liberal partisans who make themselves evident here, and work themselves into a tizzy worrying about what a horrible nightmare a Donald Trump presidency will amount to, let me point out that much of what the left has said about Trump is not at all true. For example, the claim is made as if it were revealed from God, that Trump is a racist. But those who have known him the longest say that is not true. Just this evening, Mayor Rudy Guilliani said that he has known Trump for 25 years, and "there is not a prejudiced bone in his body." For concrete evidence, look at his generous hiring policies toward African-Americans and to Hispanics, seen in the establishments he owns in Florida.

Yes, it was stupid for him to criticize the judge involved in a lawsuit against him, for being hispanic. But rather than jump to the subjective conclusion that he said this out of prejudice, consider the more logical explanation that he was poorly expressing his view that the judge would probably be prejudiced against him, because of Trump's stands on illegal immigration.

And as one who has in the past supported Ben Carson and then Ted Cruz AGAINST Trump, let me point out again that Trump has been a lifelong liberal Democrat, and gave substantial contributions to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign in 2008, when she was running against Obama.

And, just as I warned he might do, he has already begun to walk back some of his more extreme position statements--now saying he would probably keep at least two parts of Obamacare--and like he told the editorial board of (I think it was The New York Times), his statements about building the wall are only "negotiating points."

So take heart, liberals Democrats. You may actually get the president you want. You may not have lost as badly as you thought.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:
Ron has proven a long time ago that not only does he not do this, but he thinks we're demons going to hell for disagreeing with him.
This is true. So that's an excellent argument for going to the second of my two proposed courses of action, to wit, shutting the f*ck up and ignoring him. Like I'm about to do with Samp.
Thanks in advance
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Mucus
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Man, I wish both sides would realize that they've got more common ground than not. When Trump claimed that the election was rigged, why disagree and condemn? Agree! You've got people suppressing votes, crazy redistricting, campaign debates leaking questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if it leaks that you have Russian hackers messing up insecure voting machines.

Why fight about insignificant voter fraud if there's even a chance that investigation will determine that there is significant voter fraud benefiting Republicans and you just have to backtrack?

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NobleHunter
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Funny thing, Ron, if you back 25 or 30 years you can find Trump saying racist and prejudiced things. There's solid evidence that Trump held racist beliefs at one time. Beliefs which were not uncommon nor outrageous for that time. Whether or not he still holds them is harder to figure out but anyone saying he's never been prejudiced is selling you something.
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Elison R. Salazar
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Ron, I made a post and submitted it on May 30, 2016 01:26 PM, in response to your post on May 30, 2016 12:16 PM, because you never responded to my post on May 26, 2016 01:19 PM. I checked, you never throughout the remainder of that thread, ever once responded to my rebuttal, but you have repeatedly claimed you did, where is this rebuttal? Where is this post?

It does not exist, you keep lying, and this is why King of Men we do not give Ron Lambert the benefit of the doubt, because he lies about the most trivially fact checked things, like whether he actually responded to someone.

quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
Man, I wish both sides would realize that they've got more common ground than not. When Trump claimed that the election was rigged, why disagree and condemn? Agree! You've got people suppressing votes, crazy redistricting, campaign debates leaking questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if it leaks that you have Russian hackers messing up insecure voting machines.

Why fight about insignificant voter fraud if there's even a chance that investigation will determine that there is significant voter fraud benefiting Republicans and you just have to backtrack?

But like Ron they pivot away and ignore inconvenient evidence and focus on mandating voter ID and closing all of the DMV's in majority minority districts; while stacking the FEC with people who will look the other way.

There is no engagement to be had; you have to hope they screw up majorly enough that when you get into power you can rewrite the rules so they can't do that anymore.

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Ron Lambert
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Elison, I looked for those posts, which you said were in May, 2016. This thread only goes back to September 11, 2016.

If you posted anything anywhere in some other thread worth responding to, then I did. But I do not respond to things that are just too infantile and silly to be taken seriously. If that was the case, then that itself was my answer.

If you think I have to respond to anything and everything you post, then you have too high an estimation of yourself. Typical control freak liberal!

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Ron Lambert
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Several of my friends on Facebook have told me someone has been sending them friend requests in my name--when we have already been friends for some time. I suspect it could be someone in this forum. After all, Samprimary actually resorted to "quoting" a fictitious post I never posted, saying it was something I posted. Someone in this forum not long ago asked for my email address. Of course I did not reply. But it would not surprise me if someone here really has been trying to cause trouble by sending people friend requests in my name. After all, liberal Democrats do seem to be sadly unconstrained by morality and ethics--which is why they are so ready to challenge responsible efforts at verifying voter identification--because that makes it harder for them to commit voter fraud.
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Elison, I looked for those posts, which you said were in May, 2016. This thread only goes back to September 11, 2016.

If you posted anything anywhere in some other thread worth responding to, then I did. But I do not respond to things that are just too infantile and silly to be taken seriously. If that was the case, then that itself was my answer.

If you think I have to respond to anything and everything you post, then you have too high an estimation of yourself. Typical control freak liberal!

Ron, I have only ever been demanding of you to respond to the posts regarding the Germans "coming close to winning WWII"; if your response to this is indeed that you considered my response to have been "too infantile" to answer for; then you are quite frankly a liar, a coward and a fraud who runs away at the first sign of trouble.
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theamazeeaz
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We underestimated the desire of people who didn't get what they wanted, either in the primaries or in life, to burn it all down. We thought that enough of us would choose reason and compassion. We were wrong.

I've heard this sentiment expressed in a few different places, particularly by Democrats (I want to say liberals, but it's used so often as a pejorative by conservatives that I hardly like to use it anymore, even when it's more accurate). I guess...I'm hoping that I can share my experience, briefly, with this election, as a conservative who didn't vote for Trump. Maybe I won't say anything that you all haven't already considered or expected, but I'd like to say it anyway because I want you all to understand why, even though I hated the idea of Trump as president, I also didn't vote for Clinton.

Going into this, we knew the Yellow Dog Republican/bigot/angry-and-uneducated trifecta was going to vote for Trump. Clinton was never going to get their votes, obviously. But I'm not sure the Democrats understood just how many of us Christian right-wingers were open to an option other than Trump. I belong to a large organization in Texas (a cooperative home school) that's made up of Christians from a wide variety of denominations, but we, as a group, watched in horror as Trump made his way through the primaries. I barely know any practicing Christians who support Trump; the conservatives I know who like him are either not Christian or nominal Christians.

But we believed, because most people believed, that the Democrats were going to take the Oval Office and the Senate. Just like Tom seems upset with the idea of an all-Republican government (and I don't blame him) we conservatives saw a likely path to a very Democrat-heavy Washington. In my mind, the best case scenario (of the ones given, which all sucked) would have been Clinton in the White House and a fresher Republican Senate, which might have led to more deadlock (maybe not) but wouldn't have equaled a runaway for Democrats. I was hoping for some temperance in the selection of Justices.

When it came time to vote, I stood there in the booth for several long minutes trying to decide what to do. But I believed Democrats would win the Senate and, in the end, I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on Clinton. Not because she's Democrat or a woman or a liar, but because I didn't feel connected to her or her party at all and I couldn't stand the idea of no check to that power.

But I don't think it had to go that way. I believe that some of us, the younger ones or the ones who lean a bit libertarian, the red-violets, could have been swayed to vote Democrat in this particular election, because we disliked Trump so much. But I'm not sure the Democrats really understood the potential there, maybe because we don't stir up a fuss or make ourselves known. I'm not a political scientist, so I can't say what I think the DNC should have done in this case. I don't know what policies or politicking could have been implemented in order to grab the disgusted conservative crowd. I only know that I didn't witness any real attempts, at least not here in the "red" south. I think many of us felt lumped in with Trump and alienated.

Anyway, I'm not trying to place blame anywhere, and I'm not trying to open myself up to attack. I'm just sharing my feelings because I'm frustrated, too, and I'm in the camp that I think many Democrats believe they can't relate to.

Even if the Democrats had won the senate, they were very unlikely to win the house anytime soon because of gerrymandering. I'm very curious what particular policies or consequences of "unchecked" democratic power you were so fearful of. Here's a list of things that were blocked by republicans during Obama's terms, including fighting outsourcing, adding infrastructure, and retraining workers. I'm also curious what you think of Trump's leadership so far.
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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Several of my friends on Facebook have told me someone has been sending them friend requests in my name--when we have already been friends for some time. I suspect it could be someone in this forum. After all, Samprimary actually resorted to "quoting" a fictitious post I never posted, saying it was something I posted. Someone in this forum not long ago asked for my email address. Of course I did not reply. But it would not surprise me if someone here really has been trying to cause trouble by sending people friend requests in my name. After all, liberal Democrats do seem to be sadly unconstrained by morality and ethics--which is why they are so ready to challenge responsible efforts at verifying voter identification--because that makes it harder for them to commit voter fraud.

Nope. That happens to lots of people. I get a couple of friend requests a week from people with whom I am already friends. You are not under some special Hatrackian persecution.
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Bokonon
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Several of my friends on Facebook have told me someone has been sending them friend requests in my name--when we have already been friends for some time. I suspect it could be someone in this forum. After all, Samprimary actually resorted to "quoting" a fictitious post I never posted, saying it was something I posted. Someone in this forum not long ago asked for my email address. Of course I did not reply. But it would not surprise me if someone here really has been trying to cause trouble by sending people friend requests in my name. After all, liberal Democrats do seem to be sadly unconstrained by morality and ethics--which is why they are so ready to challenge responsible efforts at verifying voter identification--because that makes it harder for them to commit voter fraud.

Nope, it's more likely your account was hacked, almost certainly by an email phishing attempt, or a website you accidentally visited. I've seen awful liberals have that same issue on Facebook.

As far as Samprimary "fictitiously quoting" you, I'm like 99.9999% sure he was applying satire, not actually trying to fabricate a quote to fool anyone.

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TomDavidson
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His fabricated "quote" would have been less lucid had he meant people to actually think you'd written it, Ron.
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Samprimary
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I can't wait to become Ron Lambert's latest inane conspiracy theory because he thinks I was creating an elaborate forgery of his posts clearly designed to accurately imitate him
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Ron Lambert
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Elison, it looks to me like I did give you amply sufficient answer to your false assertion of historical facts. All you or anyone else did in trying to oppose what I said amounted to no more than showing your ignorance. I spent several years wargaming WWII, especially the Russian Campaign, so I know what I am talking about.

Give me a list of specific things you say I got wrong when I said Germany came close to winning WWII, and I will refute you point by point.

I already mentioned a number of arbitrary choices Hitler made that hindered the German war effort unnecessarily--like his decision to stop using the Fliegerkorps after they had been misused in the Mediterranean theater. I also mentioned the choices he made to invade Russia without adequate preparation for the German troops to cope with winter weather if they did not succeed in conquering Russia before winter. I mentioned also that at one point, German units were in sight of the Kremlin, just before bad weather set in. I believe I also mentioned the judgment of qualified military historical analysts that Germany stopped its airborne attacks against England too soon so the bombers, fighters, and stukkas could be used against Russia--some have said that they had the British air force on the ropes, and if they had continued attacks against the British air force for only a few more days, they would have completely ended the effectiveness of the British air force. Do you recall any of these things? I did say them.

But if you have anything else specific to add, go ahead.

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Ron Lambert
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Samprimary, all you did was show your incompetence at creating a strawman. Your opinion of what I believe bears no resemblance to what I actually believe. Maybe you could communicate a little more intelligently if you would pay closer attention to what I actually say.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Your opinion of what I believe bears no resemblance to what I actually believe.
do you ... still not understand what i was doing
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Samprimary
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like did you end up concluding that i was trying to provide an accurate internal narrative of what ron lambert actually thinks

is this what you have deduced with your master detective skills

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Stone_Wolf_
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This was once a high quality thread
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King of Men
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quote:
this is why King of Men we do not give Ron Lambert the benefit of the doubt
I'm not saying you should argue with him. Quite the opposite, I'm saying you should ignore him. But if you do argue, then you should not do so with the dogpiling ad homs displayed in this thread.
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