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» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Hatrack Groups » Wotf Critique Group -- 2010 Q03 -- Early Submissions (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Wotf Critique Group -- 2010 Q03 -- Early Submissions
WriterDan
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This was a critique group for writers that entered a story into the third quarter of 2010 in the Writers of the Future contest (27th year).

After the end of the quarter, entries submitted have been responded to as thus.

Semi-finalist:
Trina Phillips (genevive42)

Silver Honorable Mention:
Tom Carpenter (thomaskcarpenter)

Honorable Mention:
Daniel Smyth (WriterDan)
Ginger Karns (Crystal Stevens)


Congratulations to everyone that submitted!

If I have missed anyone that participated in the group and got some kind of award for this quarter, just let me know and I'll add you to the list

These are our Woo-hoos!

(Original posts from the quarter shown below)

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited December 03, 2010).]


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Kitti
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Wow, is it that time already? I still haven't even gotten my story from last quarter under control yet! :-P

I guess I'll throw my name in the hat, again.


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BenM
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I have no idea what I'll be submitting, but I'll give it a go. I need the writing and critiquing practice anyways. And even if my entries aren't fantastic, anyone suffering insomnia can use them as a cure.

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM


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snapper
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Ugh! I am on my third separate attempt at Q02 and your springing this on me?

Help!!!!


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genevive42
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I'm just polishing my Q02 entry so I'll be ready to start a new idea soon enough. Count me in.

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42


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shimiqua
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WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua

Probably.


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Dark Warrior
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Of course, I too, am in for this quarter

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior

ps...WriterDan...feel free to link the KD Wentworth WOTF thread with the other help threads if you would like.


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WriterDan
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DW: Which thread are you talking about? I can't seem to find anything else on Hatrack that mentions KD Wentworth. Are you talking about the Newsgroup over at sff.net that she posts on? Cause that one's already linked in my first post for every quarter. If not, gimme the link and I'd be glad to put it up with the rest.

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited March 02, 2010).]


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Dark Warrior
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http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/005988.html

this one...it is a collection of all her SFF and WOTF Forum advice grouped by subject matter.

[This message has been edited by Dark Warrior (edited March 02, 2010).]


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Sunshine
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WD, thanks for the update on submission dates. Me being a newbie, I think I will start this round and give myself some more time.

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine

For those who want submissions read, I am a newbie who has never been published, but I have a lot of reading experience. : )


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WriterDan
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DW: Done. I had no idea that you'd compiled that list of comments. Great job. I need to take some time and read through the whole thing before starting my story for this quarter.
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sholar
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Is there going to be a regular submissions group this quarter? I am thinking of tossing my hat in the ring, but I am slow.
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WriterDan
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Yes. It'll be started on April 1st.
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axeminister
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WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister (.doc format)

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited April 09, 2010).]


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genevive42
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axeminister, I did this for the first time last quarter. Signing up for the group generally means that you are willing to crit for anyone and everyone in the group and they are willing to do the same for you.

Some people send to one half on first round and the other half on the second. Some send to everyone both rounds. I sent to everyone on the first round and only about half on the second. If you start to get overwhelmed you could say when you have too much but I also think you should expect to be doing more than two crits for the quarter.

The nice thing is though, I don't think everyone makes the deadline at the same time so they tend to trickle in. Last quarter they came in clumps of two or three and it was pretty manageable.

This is a good group and you'll learn a lot about how to make your story stronger. And the quantity of crits you get also help to figure out which trouble spots have a universal problem and which may simply be the taste of the reader. Though I found a lot of the single comments to be very astute and helpful. And of course, when everyone catches the same thing you know it needs some sort of fixing.

So I highly recommend that you stay in the group, just be ready for some reading.


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sholar
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My story is coming together much better than I expected. So I'll join the early group.


WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister
Sholar

[This message has been edited by sholar (edited March 15, 2010).]


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axeminister
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Hmm. Ok, well, I am jumping in with both feet so I'll give it a whirl. If it's too much then I'll bow out in the future, but for this one I'll make sure to read and crit each MS I receive even if I have to call in sick from work.

After all, writing is what I want to be doing five years from now, not sitting in this office. =)

Also, I've edited my previous entry to state my preferred document format for incoming MS. Is that ok? (however, I can accept in any format)

Axe


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genevive42
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axe, I hope you don't actually have to call out sick to keep up with crits. Consider though, depending on how your office works, maybe you can do a little crit work between assignments - use a flash drive for discretion. I do stuff between customers, like writing this response.

Just a thought.


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satate
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I'm going to join too. My story was supposed to be for last quarter but life disagreed.

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister
Sholar
Satate


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axeminister
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Nah, I only call in sick about twice a year, but I always like to think I can just for fun.
I'm sure it will be fine. =)

Axe


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genevive42
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I'll mention it here in case anyone has missed the word count discussion on the Q01 Early Submissions board.

WotF rules state that the word limit for the contest is 17,000 words. But the way that the word count is determined has nothing to do with the count that your word processor gives.

This is the formula: Using 12pt. Courier font, double spacing, with 1" margins you have a maximum of 68 PAGES.

When I tried this out on my word processor, it counted approximately 14,500 words.

I believe you can eke out a little more space for yourself if you go into your line spacing options and turn off the 'orphans' function. Thanks IB for that. Also, it has been said by KDWentworth that one or two pages over may not get you disqualified.

For Q02 I sent off a 16,000 word story that may come back unread, for being too long. And this all came up because arriki got disqualified that way. I don't want anyone else to have this problem so please make sure you format and count correctly. It is very important to use the Courier font to get an accurate count. There might be other fixed width fonts you can use but I donīt know what they are and I know Courier fits the bill.

Good luck everybody!


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BenM
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I think the safest bet is to simply ensure it's 17,000 words or 68 pages, whichever is less.
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WriterDan
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Thanks for the post, Genevive. Hadn't thought about doing so myself, but this really makes sense. Seriously. I should probably put something to this effect in the header that I put up at the beginning of each new group's discussion.

So, I'm about giddy as a school-girl right now. I decided to come back into school later tonight than was actually possible (10pm instead of 8) and stay home to spend some time with my wife reading a book to her and then watching the most recent episode of 24 (which was AWESOME by the way). Anyhow, while fast-forwarding through one of the commercials I mentioned an idea to her that I'd had a while ago for the beginning of a short story. Though that was all that I had: a beginning. After the show, Law & Order was on, and an idea that they used for a character's background hit a spark with me, and an entire story just tumbled out of the connection between this idea and the story beginner.

Whoa.

I love it when things like that happen. I want to dive in right now, and it's killing me that I can't. In fact, my kid gave me this blank piece of paper earlier this evening when I got home from school that he had colored a bit on, and said, "You can just draw whatever else you want in this space here," weaving his hand over most of the page. And...do I even dare say this?...I'm getting the urge to draw a picture for this story. Absolute crazyism. But, I must...do...school-work! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Hope everyone is having a smashing good time putting their stories together. This is going to be a great quarter. I can feel it.

EDIT: I edited the lead post for this group (and thus all future groups) to include both story limitations. Thanks again, Genevive!

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited March 18, 2010).]


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BenM
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I haven't written a word yet, life has been a little crazy.
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axeminister
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Hey all, I'm currently totally hung up on the formatting for my Q2 entry now. =(
I switched to courier and my story blew up from 60 pages to 74... I did the 24pt forced spacing and it went back to 64 but is 26 or 27 lines per page now.
Word count is 14,800
Any thoughts?

Also, another question is, when I send my story to you folks, how would you like it formatted?
Courier drives me nuts personally, but others may be used to it or even *gasp* write in it.

Anyway, let me know.

Axe

p.s. Grats WriterDan - sounds awesome. =)

[This message has been edited by axeminister (edited March 18, 2010).]


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genevive42
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axe, also go into your page breaks/line spacing options and turn off 'orphans'. That should save you a few pages and get you into the safe zone, I think. Good Luck!
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genevive42
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WriterDan, On the page limits paragraph in the opener of this post you might want to mention the importance of using Courier font for the figuring. It makes a huge difference and none of the guidelines emphasize how important it is to figure word count with that font.
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LAJD
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OK, I'm in too. I've had inspiration and a needed break from novel hell. I'm half-way through a first draft already.

WriterDan
Kitti
BenM
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister
Sholar
Satate
LAJD


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WriterDan
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Genevive: Courier font is actually one of the very first things that is mentioned in the Manuscript Preparation article by Vonda McIntyre. So, I think it's covered for those willing to heed the warning and check everything out.
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genevive42
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You're right, sorry I didn't remember it being that prominent.
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WriterDan
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No, thanks for mentioning it. Made me go back and re-check the article just to be sure. Always better to have multiple minds working on things like this.
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BenM
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After putting a bit of thought into what I want out of my writing this coming quarter, I've decided that I'm better off giving it a miss and coming back a little later. So I'm out for now...

WriterDan
Kitti
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister
Sholar
Satate
LAJD


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genevive42
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Of course this quarter I resolved to write a shorter story, significantly shorter. You know, 7000 words tops.

Well, I've just started really digging into my story. I think my idea of a shorter story is out the window. It's not going to be a maxed out monster but I think it's going to be longer than I intended. We'll see.

I'm doing something a little risky and a little different. I just hope it works.

***
Edited to add: I actually forgot that I had notes at the end of my text so it's not getting out of control lengthwise as much as I thought. Maybe I'll make my mark.

[This message has been edited by genevive42 (edited March 20, 2010).]


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sholar
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I feel puny. I just finished my first draft with 4500 words. Even if I increase by 20% (I usually expand not shrink in future drafts), that is still well under 6k.
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genevive42
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sholar, don't worry. Sometimes the lower word count can be a benefit. It certainly isn't a detriment. All that matters is that it's a good story.
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Kitti
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Shorter word counts are nice... makes it easier for you to find a home for the story if WotF doesn't take it. There aren't many markets for stories over 10K.
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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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There are some editors who consider 4500 words to be the "perfect" length for a short story.
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sholar
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I like the idea of being perfect. I'll try to view my story not as puny, but at the model who struts around the beach in a skimpy bikini, making all the other women jealous. ;-)
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WriterDan
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Sholar, read Schroedinger's Hummingbird out of WotF vol 22. That's one that I remember as being really short, but it's seriously one of the better stories that I've ever read out of WotF. Granted, most of the stories that get published in WotF are longer, but the fact that this one won First Place for the quarter it was entered shows that shorter stories can win. And they can be great too!
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Dark Warrior
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According to KDW, her own winning entry was only 2000 words.
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WriterDan
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Ah. Her winning entry is in Vol 5. I just happen to have that one at home. I'll have to go home and read it tonight.
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alliedfive
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Alright, I have like 15 stories to choose from, but I'm going to go for it.

It's my first time submitting to WOTF, so be gentle!

WriterDan
Kitti
genevive42
shimiqua
Dark Warrior
Sunshine
Axeminister
Sholar
Satate
LAJD
alliedfive


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sholar
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Ok- stupid question. April 14th first drafts for crits out. Does that mean we need to have them sent by April 14th or after April 14th? So, if my draft is ready for feedback on April 3, should I send it then or wait?
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Dark Warrior
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I have two scenes to write and four to edit. I should have my first ready for crits before the deadline too. I plan on sending it out to everyone on the list when it was ready, and as usual when people get to it they get to it.

Since I will have mine shipped out before the deadline I will be available for early reading/crits too so when you are ready send it my way.


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axeminister
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Another question(s):
Do we all put a certain title in the subject line so we know it's not spam?
And
I'm assuming we should all hit reply and say "story received."?

A mistake I made just today by not doing.

Axe


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genevive42
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A good subject line might be: WotF Q03 First Draft from xxxx at Hatrack

Or something like that.

As far as the deadline, it's kind of loose. The one thing about sending it out early is that everyone else is trying to finish their stories so you might not get the early responses you expect. I've only done this once before though so I don't know how others feel.

And if you're not ready by the 14th, send it out when you are. There's no shame in being a little late seeing that these are self-imposed deadlines.

I hope everyone is having fun with their stories. I can't wait to read them.


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WriterDan
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The deadlines are absolutely loose. It's just nice to have something to shoot for, you know? If you get done early, ask for volunteers for an early crit. If people are open, they'll let you know. If they aren't, they won't respond and you can wait for the official deadline before sending it to them.

So, my story... I've plotted the entire thing. It's all laying out on my mental map, but I haven't practiced any BICHOK in that direction as of yet. Because it's pretty much all plotted, I'm hoping that it'll come out quickly. But you never know.

As an aside, a mooey-favorite author of mine (Daniel Abraham) has posted a list of his "10 rules to writing". Though you all might be interested. It's a short list after all. Don't want to take too much time away from your writing.

http://bram452.livejournal.com/69822.html

[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited March 31, 2010).]


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Dark Warrior
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Im ready for Q03 and excited...for me though it will be Q2.1--the lost month in Philly hurt my production so I had to send in the Cinders rewrite.

Q03 will be a major rewrite of the story I was working on most of Q02 so some of you may recognize it when it crawls into your critpiles.

I was able to read and crit 8 of the 12 stories I got last quarter and hope to get through most, if not all of them, this time since I am not losing a month again.


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sholar
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I like the Daniel Abraham list. The advice made sense to me. I have a complete story, with every scene I think I need in place, but I need to do some work on editing and add some more description.

If anyone wants to send theirs to me, I am good with that. I like things being more spread out. However, I am not going to look at it until later next week. I am going to Florida see the space shuttle launch next Monday and am so excited over that. And then with my three year old daughter, we are going to go to Disneyworld and see the princesses. I am so excited and will be doing nothing productive during that time. Though we are going to see the swamp and part of my novel takes place in a swamp, so I am claiming it is all about research.


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Dark Warrior
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I like #3...sometimes I feel like the infodump crit is a bit overused...myself included...just because someone (me) recognizes an infodump doesnt mean that it isnt well written or that it doesnt fit into the story.

[This message has been edited by Dark Warrior (edited March 31, 2010).]


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