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Author Topic: WotF Critique Group -- 2012 Q02
mbwood
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June has come and gone with no results announced (as promised). Today is the 100th day since the deadline to enter Q2, which is a longer time span than Q2... Any guesses (or bets) on when the results get posted?
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rabirch
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Well, we know from the Daily Kicks that David Farland has been deep in the slush, so I'm guessing that as soon as the winners for Q1 are announced we're going to see a flood of Q2 responses. As to when they'll notify finalists, I couldn't even begin to venture a guess.
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MJNL
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Incoming!
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rabirch
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Well, never mind my guess on when we'll see results ... DUCK!
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Owasm
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Q2... Boo Hoo
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JenniferHicks
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Sorry to hear that, Owasm.

Part of me is surprised we're getting Q2 results before Q1 is officially done, and part of me is thinking, "It's about time!"

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rabirch
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I'm sorry to hear it, Owasm.
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mbwood
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I dunno whether posting the comment about the late results had anything to do with it, but I just got my Q2 rejection today from Joni, the same day. Maybe I should have just laid low.
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rabirch
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Ouch, sorry mbwood.
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Owasm
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I'll give WotF one more try. The problem is, I've not liked anything Farland has written.
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JenniferHicks
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Sorry, mbwood. Small consolation, but at least this quarter you weren't left hanging and hanging and hanging ...
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axeminister
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Grumpiness deleted.

[ July 10, 2012, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: axeminister ]

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MJNL
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You know, write what you want to write, and make him read it. No one proves anything by letting a venue beat them. KD said she stopped in about the same place as DF says he does if she felt deep down it wasn't gonna float her boat. Aim to Impress on the first page, that hasn't changed

I was terrified when I heard there'd be a changing of the guard. Up until KD passed away she was the only editor who'd ever pushed me to the top. I'd written my Q1 for her, felt deep down that it was just right *for her,* but I paper subbed, so I know she never saw it. I thought I was screwed.

And then something miraculous happened. Joni called me. I was a finalist again, and it wasn't KD who'd picked the story.

The lesson is this: You never know if an editor will like your story or not. You're not in his/her head. Don't do their job for them. Force *them* to reject you. It's not your place to reject you.

If a handful of rejections wouldn't turn you off of another venue, don't let it turn you off of this one. The only thing failing to submit gets you is a missed sale.

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mbwood
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Yes, Jennifer, I wasn't left hanging. I got the Q2 rejection 12 days after the Q1 rejection. Kind of a double whammy. I'm still trying to figure out what's required. I got an HM and subsequently entered what I thought were superior stories... I just dunno. I get the feeling that there is a rush to judgement. Maybe I should just be quiet...
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thomaskcarpenter
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Well said, Marina.

And I agree with her. Don't self-reject. Keep in mind that no matter how well you wrote your story, there might have been many others that wrote better ones. It is a contest after all and if doesn't think yours is in the top 10% then he might also pass on it. It doesn't mean it wasn't good, just that it wasn't better than the others submitted and maybe just not right for him, on that day.
</pep talk>

Now get back in there and push some nouns against some verbs! [Smile]

Tom

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LDWriter2
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Came here to check this group out. There're dropping like Dog hair on a hot day over on the WotF forum....some very surprised people too and some not so surprised.

I was just on my E-mail sending out a story and nothing but I'm double checking later.

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axeminister
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More grumpiness deleted.

[ July 10, 2012, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: axeminister ]

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Brendan
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Axe

Was it one of the ten rules for rejection or one of the 87 rules that came later? Because if it was one of the 87 rules, they are more suggested improvements. It is far easier for him to read and go with his gut feel than to apply even 10 rules to each he looks at. It would also be far quicker. So don't give up yet. (PS this pep talks is all for selfish reasons - we need quality critiquers in our WOTF circles)

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Strycher
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quote:
Originally posted by axeminister:
But he's seemingly rejecting stories based on his hard and fast rules, without bothering to find out if the story is good or not.

Moving in a different direction from everyone else's highly valid points, and into the realm of rejectomancy:

Maybe he is doing this. Maybe he's not. But if he is, perhaps it's because they're two quarters behind and it's his responsibility to catch them up in time for the awards ceremony. Maybe once things have settled down he'll take a more leisurely pace. But he was handed a thousand stories and told, "These are due back next week." Literally. When he started reading Q2 it was when we're normally anticipating Q2 results.

But this speculation is invalid if he's not rejecting in this way. (And again a few of the examples he gave indicate that he at least skimmed several pages on a few of the rule breaking stories to see if he spotted anything he liked.)

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axeminister
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Joss Whedon said, if you like my movie, tell everyone you know.
If you don't, please practice quiet contemplation.

[Big Grin]

[ July 10, 2012, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: axeminister ]

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LDWriter2
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Still dropping over at the WotF forums. Evidently not everyone but it sounds like its close.


But if David is rejecting the stories according to one or more sets of his rules I don't see that as bad. Most editors have a set of "rules" they look for while reading. They are developed through experience. Certain types of mistakes either lead to other mistakes or are followed by other types of mistakes. If it speeds things up so much the better.


As to feeling bad about it, KDW rejected a bunch of stories every quarter, even some good ones. So David is no different in that regard.

I might be saying that to myself in a day or so.

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LDWriter2
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And evidently Joni is sending out copies of "kicks". You may have to respond to her rejection to get one and I don't know if it's the same one to everyone.
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LDWriter2
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So only one or two people here got rejects???


In that case we're doing good so far. The rejections are coming hard and heavy this time around. It is opinioned that we will either be getting: zero more, one more or two more tidal waves of rejects before the HMs and higher.

It all depends on exactly how many stories were sent in, exactly how many David has gone over so far therefore how many are left to do. [Smile]

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JenniferHicks
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quote:
Originally posted by LDWriter2:
It is opinioned that we will either be getting: zero more, one more or two more tidal waves of rejects before the HMs and higher. It all depends on exactly how many stories were sent in, exactly how many David has gone over so far therefore how many are left to do. [Smile]

Which basically means we're all speculating to pass the time and know absolutely nothing.
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LDWriter2
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Too True.


Except that there was a tidal wave on a Monday instead of a few on a Thursday so it's easy to say that there could very well be another wave. I suspect so. Unless that Wave was a whole lot bigger than even we knew there will be some more rejects. There does seem to be some stragglers who are either late in getting the News or some rejects have been sent out a couple at a time instead of waiting to do a bunch.

And we know he is busy with Q2 so we will be hearing more soon...as in a day to a week.

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greenroom
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David Farland announced on Facebook that he is done judging Q2, up to and including having picked the 8 finalists.
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rabirch
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Now we'll get a feel for how long the turn-around is from getting the decisions made to the results out.
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JenniferHicks
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That was a fast turnaround. I suspect the finalists will get calls in the next day or two, and then more rejections and possibly HMs will go out next week.
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LDWriter2
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Wow, either there wasn't as many stories as expected--by the opinionaters--or Joni waited through the weekend before sending out more rejections. Which means one more tidal wave tomorrow.
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LDWriter2
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Boy, my heart is getting a work out, sinking to my stomach than going back up etc..

Four times this weekend so far I saw an E-mail was waiting for me. Three times was rejections from other markets and once someone else was sending me a story to crit.

I even checked my spam folder because a couple of times WotF's E-mail was sent there for some reason. Oh a message from Joni....one from a couple of months ago I never deleted.

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axeminister
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I have zero expectations this round.

I do think Kathy would have particularly liked this story tho.

Axe

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JenniferHicks
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I'm with Axe. My story would have probably been an HM under Kathy. Under DW, who knows?

I'll be checking my e-mail box obsessively over the next few days.

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mbwood
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Having not read your story, Jennifer, I wouldn't know. However, being put in the 'HOLD' pile sure was an indication that your story had something.
I'd kind of like to read your entry. Maybe we can do a swap to see each other's effort...?

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rabirch
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Reporting in with a rejection for Q2. Time to adress some issues in the story and send it off to the next market.
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snapper
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quote:
Having not read your story, Jennifer, I wouldn't know. However, being put in the 'HOLD' pile sure was an indication that your story had something.
I'd kind of like to read your entry. Maybe we can do a swap to see each other's effort...?

May I suggest you ladies check out the Ghost of Wotf entries gone Past thread. It is set up by some forthright thinking genius for this purpose.
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JenniferHicks
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The first HMs are getting reported at the WotF forum.

@mbwood: Do you mean trade Q1 or Q2 stories? I know where my Q1 story went wrong, so I'm not interested in having someone else tell me what I already know. (BTW, it was never in the hold pile.) And I think I'll hold off on Q2 until I hear how it did. But if you want to trade critiques for Q4, I'm up for it, whenever I get my story done. PM me if you're interested.

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axeminister
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Honorable Mention for me.

E-subbed on 3/31.

Earlier, DW mentioned he's completely finished with Q2 and had sent his full list of results to Joni. So, the calls will be going out soon.

I'm actually very pleased with this. Especially after last quarter. Nice to rebound with a positive result this time.

Axe

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JenniferHicks
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Congrats, Dustin!

Anyone else get an HM tonight?

(I'm still waiting.)

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LDWriter2
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I join the larger bunch with a straight rejection.

Rats, really thought it was looking like a HM too.

Must not have really thought it would go higher.

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snapper
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I'm waiting but lost hope when I read his DK on cliched openings. I so rarely open that way. Oh well.
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Strycher
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Got an HM notification last night.
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Utahute72
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Let me add to the carnage, straight rejection. I have mixed feelings about this one. It was a story which should have fit Dave's mold, even though it was submitted before he took over. It was also one that no one on here read, so I was shooting in the dark. I guess stumbling around in the dark isn't the way to go.
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Utahute72
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Oh and congrats to the HMs.
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mrmeadors
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Congratulations to our HMs!! As for our rejects, there's always next time! Try, try agin....
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LDWriter2
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So we have two HMs or did I miss someone ?


In either case Congrats.

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LDWriter2
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As I mentioned on another thread this story was somewhat different for me. The average person, futuristic setting and the problem was all different than what I usually write. The emotional baggage may have been similar however. And it may have had a cliche opening.

I figured all that--minus the cliche opening--and the help I got around here would raise it up but obviously I was wrong.

Maybe Lisa Rogers will think more of it than David did. Even though it is still basically my writing,

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snapper
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Still haven't heard a thing. Is this going to be one of those months where I gotta bug Joni to find out how I did?

[ July 18, 2012, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: snapper ]

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Brendan
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I still haven't heard either, so I don't think the last pile of rejections has come out yet. I submitted on 30/3 and I notice a couple on WOTF forum also have not received a reply from that date (while a number have from dates all around and including that one).
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LDWriter2
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There are a few on the WotF forums who haven't heard either.


But snapper... had a comment but obviously you thought better on your comment.


And those color coded kicks Joni is sending out certainly are interesting to read.


PS

I have got to turn off that auto-correct on my browser. Egads it likes to change things without telling me.

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JenniferHicks
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Here's what I'm thinking:

Duotrope has logged 83 WotF responses since July 9. Probably five of those are Q1 finalists, but the rest are Q2. If you figure about 10 percent of responses are logged on Duotrope, and there are about 1,000 entries per quarter, then about 75% to 80% of the Q2 entries have been responded to. Those are big "ifs" because no one knows for sure how many people enter WotF or use Duotrope.

More HMs might be coming, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're done. DW has implied that he didn't give out as many HMs as usual. And the finalists know who they are. That means there are a maximum of eight semis and a couple of silvers left, out of an estimated 200 entries still pending.

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