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Robert, Ender's Game is my favorite novel and I don't like the novellete. In both the novelette and the comic, Ender seems too cocky in battle, cold to others, and adult. You experience more of his fear and frustration in the novel.
OSC wrote years ago of his intention to add a psychiatrist to the list of movie characters. That way, Ender could vocalize his thoughts.
[This message has been edited by aspirit (edited July 29, 2009).]
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I will contribute millions to the movie by adding this...
If its filmed in Michigan, like many new movies, production company gets up to a 42% tax break. Spend 10 mil on the movie get 4 mil back.
New production studio will be open soon in Metro Detroit.
Biggest film to date: Red Dawn the remake is wrapping up now. There are dozens of movies currently shooting here and a grass roots movement to change the name from motown to movietown
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Red Dawn - yeah, big budget stuff here...it is starring the guy that played JTK's dad in the new Star Trek. He is also going to play Thor in the upcoming Thor/Avengers movies.
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I can't imagine how one would update Red Dawn for 2009 (or 10 or 11 or whatever). How can one deal with a Soviet occupation of the USA when the Soviet Union disappeared? Even as a period piece it wouldn't cut it.
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I think the trouble with a Muslim occuppied USA in a story isn't so much how actual Muslims will perceive it (though accurately portraying the religion would be a big issue) but rather the problem is one of believability. Anyone who's studied US history in any detail knows how thoroughly protestant our culture has been since its inception.
Not as much now. But the fact that every president since the beginning has had to explicitly state a belief in a Christian God in order to even be considered for election reflects, I think, how stubbornly Christian the US population is. Though new trends are moving away from that, but in the direction of less religious restriction and not more. (More agnosticism/Atheism not more Islam)
So I think the general population of the US would have to be mostly wiped out for such an occupation to work since most of us would rather die fighting than convert to Islam.
May sound extreme. But that is the culture I've observed in my lifetime. And I've been all over.
[This message has been edited by Zero (edited November 18, 2009).]
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I read recently that, based on the number of Nazi troops used to occupy the Channel Islands, that they would have needed thirty million troops to occupy Great Britain. Meanwhile, the British Empire at its height was run with the British presence in its territories numbering sometimes as low as the low hundreds, and in much larger territories in terms of square area and / or population.
I think an occupation of the United States would need to rely on some kind of local cooperation---something that would be unlikely to be forthcoming.
(I would think if the USA were as "stubbornly Christian" as Muslim nations were "stubbornly Islamic," we would not be putting up with many of the things we put up with today---Islamic terrorism among them.)
posted
Come to think of it, we've all strayed a bit off-topic---none of this has much to do with making a movie of Ender's Game.
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quote:Come to think of it, we've all strayed a bit off-topic---none of this has much to do with making a movie of Ender's Game.
That's why I suggested Buggers, trying to throw it back on track. Seems any topic on the forums can turn into a political commentary or degate some how.
My original post that led this astray, was if Enders Game could be filmed in Michigan they could take advantage of a 42% rebate (tax incentive) on all money spent here. Plus Snapper, Teraen, and myself could be in the movie
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Well, would it be cheaper yet to film Ender's Game in Toronto or Vancouver? Certainly it'd be more expensive to film in Hollywood...
(A bunch of guys I work with at the post office were in Day of the Dead---I always get a chuckle when I see them playing zombies. I could'a gone down that day and been one myself, but I didn't.)
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man i was stoned the kcuf out of my mind on my medication and i thought of the best song for the credits of the Ender Game movie if it is ever made.
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Here's a review for a script for Ender's Game. There's also a link to the script.
To KDW: I do not know who owns the script so I'm not sure who's copyright is being violated here, but I post this for the readers of this site so they can see what's going on. The owner of the site linked below has taken down scripts based on author wishes, and there has been a vitriolic debate in the screenwriting community about the worth of script sites like this.
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Dear goodness, I hope the Card's 2009 script or whatever script is chosen for the actual movie is better than the one summarized on that site.
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The biggest hurdle I can see is that you're going to have to find a bunch of a 10 year-olds who can act. I've no doubt there's some out there, but between that and the ending, I'd be very surprised if this ever made it to the big screen.
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That, interestingly enough, is what has held this movie up for the last 15 years. Card insists that all the actors be between 9 and 13, and the producers keep trying to sneak 15-19 year-olds into the auditions/proposed actors. This has happened 2-3 times with different producers, and each time Card has Endered up bailing out.
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The casting calls would need to be a huge production in themselves, and the producing company would need to accept no-names for vital roles, to collect enough talented children to pull the movie off. Established production companies avoid as much risk as they can, so they wouldn't like this strategy.
However, I think Card is in the right. An intelligent 18-year-old can't convey the same amount of innocence as a 12-year-old, and it's the misuse of innocence in Ender's Game that captures our attention.
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You know I think there is only one director I can think of that respects science fiction, and has the talent and knowledge to pull off a movie version of Ender's Game, without shying from young actors or the themes and complexities of the story - James Cameron.
With his recent movie success, his educational background in physics and technology, inclination towards militaristic stories, and harnessing his experience with his new technology in 3D filming, as well his new way of directing movies (using his real-time "render"-cam - which allows him to point a screen in space and see the rendered cgi realtime!), not to mention his ability to manage huge productions, James Cameron is the one we should persuad to take up the project.
I say if we are serious about this - we create a sort of business plan video on why this project suits him and send it to him.
Perhaps he will take the initiate and contact OSC.
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Ever heard of THE ABYSS? OSC wrote the novelization for that movie, and James Cameron directed it (and, according to OSC's novelization, worked very closely with OSC on it).
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My point is, however, that OSC and Cameron already know each other and have worked together. Do y'all really think James Cameron would not have been one of the first directors OSC talked to about an ENDER'S GAME movie?
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Actually I thought novelizations were handled by studios and the director had little say in the matter other than trying to get royalties, and never really met with the author.
Do you know if OSC actually asked Cameron to consider the project?
OSC could have written the novelization and never even conversed with Cameron...is that possible? How does movie novelizations take place? Does the filmmaker find the writer - or the studio?
If OSC did talk with Cameron...well, I've also heard that Cameron is very controlling (almost bullying) in his movie productions. Maybe there were some head-butting going on about the script.
[This message has been edited by billawaboy (edited February 16, 2010).]
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Based on what KDW said, it's reasonable to assume that OSC and Cameron talked about Ender's Game. Even if they didn't talk, there's no way in hell this got past Cameron's radar; he would've at least looked at the idea. If it's been around since the early '90s, then everyone who is anyone has looked at making Ender's Game into a movie.
It hasn't happened because there is no one out there who feels strongly enough to put up the money to make the movie. That any movie gets made is a minor miracle, and one that has the added "drawbacks" of a bunch of child actors and heavy CGI is even less likely to get made. Not impossible, just less likely.
By the way, David Fincher would be my choice as director.
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Cameron prefers to direct movies that he himself has conceived. Except for Piranha II, I don't know of any other movie Cameron has directed that wasn't based off of his ideas. Granted, he often gets help with scripts, but even Aliens was mostly him (even though it was based off the original movie).
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He supposed to working on the Manga Battle Angel - that's not his.
I dunno, I'm willing to bet that Cameron probably dismissed it early on (90's) because the tech wasn't there to do it right. And it seems he had his hands full inventing his new gizmos and working on tv shows, Avatar etc, to give EG serious thought.
Look, e all get advice to listen to this to read that - and it usually ends up on some to do list. I can imagine Cameron has a sizable to do list already - namely the sequel to Avatar he already promised. Then probably Battle Angel.
My point is, we should try to get him to notice EG again. Get it into the pipeline of scripts to consider. I doubt he has thought of EG since 1989.
Does OSC have a list of people he has tried/
Splurt! David Fincher!? The guy who did fight Club, and Seven? Eh, really!?...
If not Cameron, then next i'd say Zac Snyder for director - the man knows his cgi.
But of course we could always go with the director that has been phenomenal with kid actors - Shyamalan. We'll have to see how Airbender goes to know how well he handle's someone else's story. personally, I think Shyamalan will not make it right.
If only Kubrick were alive...that would be one crazy version of EG.
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I've read that Margaret Mitchell didn't think much of the casting of "Gone With the Wind." In a way, you relinquish all control over your creation when you sell it to Hollywood---their interpretation becmes the interpretation.
Tarzan was an intelligent descendant of nobility who attended Oxford or Cambridge (I forget which). Benjamin Braddock was blond. And Aragorn didn't have any doubts about his ruling Gondor and Arnor reunited.
quote:OSC could have written the novelization and never even conversed with Cameron....
If you get a copy of OSC's novelization, you will be able to read about how they actually collaborated on it in a way. Cameron gave the three main actors a copy of OSC's character sketches to use in developing their characters since OSC was in on the project from early on and script changes were sent to OSC on a regular basis as filming proceeded.
Of course, this is unusual for novelizations, but OSC said he wouldn't do it any other way, and Cameron specifically wanted him for the job.
You're right that the normal procedure is far different, billawaboy.
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Speaking of cgi, why does the movie need child actors? Why not just do it as cgi.
I remember hearing that George Lucas looked forward to the day when he could make movies without using any actors at all (of course, he would need characters and characterization, but I'm not sure he realizes that). When you look at the cgi in AVATAR, it almost seems possible.
And when you look at how well done UP was, why not do ENDER'S GAME as animated? Or a cross between cgi and animation?
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that's what I was thinking - I mean they can be older actors 16-18 - but they just wear the body suits and cgi can take them from 6 to 12 without changing their voices much.
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Wow, KDW, I didn't realize they worked that close - or even that Cameron picked him out. Maybe Cameron just wasn't interested, or maybe OSC found Cameron had too abrasive a personality...
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erm...has OSC allowed people to read his script? Is there a copy to read? Personally I think they should just use the original novel. Don't mix Ender's Shadow into it.
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Also did someone say we should make a fake EG trailer? First what do the bugger's look like?...lol
[This message has been edited by billawaboy (edited February 16, 2010).]
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billawaboy look up OSC's review of The Village and I think you'll see why I'm pretty sure Shyamalan has no chance of being named director of EG.
I wonder if he did ask Cameron to direct, I'll bet that he asked him for advice at least. I just think with an ally like Cameron in the room some of the past dealbreakers (like 17 yr old Ender) wouldn't have happened.
You never know with movies, there are contractually secret chess moves going on all the time. We haven't heard anything about it in about a year, last I heard the license was at Odd Lot Entertainment I wonder if it's still there.
Oh and buggers look like bugs with a little bit of 'er. (Or perhaps a better description would be bugs and bigger combined.)
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It occurs to me that, essentially, the big directors are looking for properties they can do---their way---and that's the way the world of moviemaking works for them. But definitely not the other way, with some writer looking for somebody to do right by his work.
I read recently that the Belgian cartoonist / artist Herge ("Tintin") was all set to sign a deal for Spielberg to direct a live-action version of his work---until Herge noticed a clause in the contract that said, if Spielberg didn't like the script, he reserved the right to have somebody else direct it. Herge backed off, then and there---in the contract, he was relinquishing a lot, including merchandising and royalties thereof, and didn't see it as worthwhile to go through with if Spielberg had that kind of out.
I'd say, if you don't need the money---and don't want the attention---don't sell your work to the moviemakers.
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Yes, Fincher. The director of Fight Club, Seven, and, IMO, the best mystery/cop procedural film in decades, Zodiac. I want the guy who wanted to make the movie that ended with the "head in the box" because that was true to the tone of the script, not the car chase to save the wife that the rewritten scripts were. I want the guy that made a satire on 20th century male "bonding". I want the guy who made a movie that showed what every single Detective goes through when trying to solve a case that has many dead ends and is officially "unsolved".
Kubrick would be a terrible choice as his films are too cold and unemotional. Cameron would be a terrible choice because the nuances would elude him. Shyamalan would be a terrible choice because it's obvious the guy doesn't know how to tell a story anymore. (Though maybe he could do something with a script by a writer other than himself, but he doesn't do that.)
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i dunno rich. Ficnher does very gritty gruesome dark stuff. EG is a very introspective story, more thougthful, it's dark, but it has that innocence of its characters. I think we would lose the sensitivity of Ender if Fincher directed it. I suspect we'd end up with Ender coming off as a hardboiled sarcastic violent kid - when what we need to have is his vulnerable good side always peek thru.
If it were possible to have Spielberg direct it without making it too sappy then he'd be a candidate. But I think Cameron already has the sensitivity and frankly I think he would better understand the zero-g camerawork that would be needed.
quote:Kubrick would be a terrible choice because he's dead.
I agree Robert. Look how Eyes Wide Shut turned out - or even A.I. for that matter.
I'm sorry rich, but I think Fincher is a little too gritty for EG, although it would add an extra dimension to the bathroom fight scene.
I think Cameron has the right stuff for EG, but I still question whether he would ever direct a movie with which he hasn't had primary creative control. BTW, he has been given script rights to Battle Angel. No matter how much Card might like him, I don't see him giving Cameron that much power. Kathleen, thanks for mentioning the afterword in The Abyss - I have the book, but hadn't read that.
Although I like several other directors more, I think Chris Columbus would be best suited for EG. He has the experience working with very young actors, even as a group. The movie would have to be PG-13 at the highest, because children-movies do a lot better when children can actually go to see them. He also has experience in sci-fi and special effects. And finally, he has a reputation of being slavish to original stories, which I suspect would attract Card. I believe Card is determined to have the Ender and Bean stories be combined into one story - kind of a hero/competitor/buddy type of story.
I'm...I'm speechless. I am without speech. Who's next on the list? Ratner?
Excuse me while I weep. (Plus I'm a little upset that Robert was able to hit my softball right out of the park. That'll teach me to think before writing.)
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I pick Snyder simply becuase i think he is so familiar with cgi directing that he would know the technical aspects of directing better than most. And I feel Znyder is very good at adaptations - I think he did a very good job with 300 and watchmen - i really cant think of another director that could have done better with the graphic novels. (Please don't say Fincher could - I see what he did with benjamin button but that's not tough cgi...)
Columbus - eh, looking over his prior movies...I don't think he can handle EG. He might have the basic skills, but i think he would inadvertently introduce humor into it. I need to see him direct darker subject matters. Also 12 of his 15 movies were flops.
(philo...kubrick didnt direct AI.) But...I liked AI. AI is severely underated - don't know why... Eyes Wide Shut is a wierd one - i keep wondering what audience kubrick was imagining...most people are too jaded by pop culture to be shocked...i see eyes wide shut working on a 1960's crowd.
lol...Ratner - well, that would be one way to end the franchise.
Speaking of which does OSC want it to be a one-off movie? or a series?
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I'm not sure there are any really good directors working in American commercial live-action movies these days---though I'm no expert and hardly ever watch relatively-new movies even on television. (Scorsese's problem is that none of the characters in his movies are ever very sympathetic, and often aren't even likeable.)
Perhaps Disney / Pixar could make something of it.
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billawaboy, A.I. was Kubrick's project, but Spielberg, who had been collaborating with him, took it over after Kubrick's death. However, Spielberg directed it based on storyboards and on what he and Kubrick had discussed about style, etc.
I'm not that big of a fan of Columbus, but he did direct the first two Harry Potter movies, which were fairly good adaptations.
Here are some things to consider: - Card insists on the actors being between 6 and 15 (Ender 12 or under). The director should have experience working with groups of child actors. - The movie will need to be PG-13 or less (or it's going to bomb - movies about children that are rated-R are a poison pill in Hollywood) - The director should also have experience with CGI and (at least) some science fiction, possibly even military stories. - The director will have to be willing to work with Card's creative control - screenplays, approved rewrites, casting, etc.
posted
true, but you know kubrick liked to do as many takes as it took till he got the lighting, exposure, shot, angle, speed, expression, dialogue, etc, absolutely perfect. He was known for that; it was his trademark. I'd bet Speilberg didn't go that far. Kubrick liked to use a lot of long shots without the camera moving, while Speilberg uses medium to close shot mostly. Kubrick liked to compose his shots more than speilberg does. Sure Speilberg said he tried to shoot it the way Kubrick would like it - but what does that mean? When you look at it, it looks a Speilberg film.
side note: Can you imagine Ang lee directing it!?
I say Cameron's got atleast 3 out of the 4 on your list - but he did direct edward furlong as a kid in T2 and Elisha Dushku in True lies - so he has some experience...
posted
I liked Kubric's ending of AI better, it was in the helicopter at the bottom of the ocean, not the robot decedents millenia later that everybody thinks were aliens giving the kid a happy ending.
Can you imagine a Spielburg tacked on happy ending for EG? I've been sitting here trying and I just can't.
I have also heard that OSC doesn't want a "green screen Hollywood" production so mister 300 and Watchtower would not fit. A battle school set wouldn't be too costly, since most of the rooms should look nearly the same.
Opie Taylor - he's got experience shooting space scenes and he knows all about child actors. Peter "3 1/2 hr" Jackson - does great on adaptations and knows how to make people look short. Guillermo "of bull" - Experience with child actors and sci-fi as well as learning how to make people look short. The Wario Bros. - experience with sci-fi and defying gravity and use really cool-looking green backlighting. Alex "I Never Read Asimov" Proyas - experience with adaptations (both close and landing in a galaxy far, far away) and lots of sci-fi cred. Paul Pervhoeven - experience with sci-fi and military stories, adaptations (of sorts), and could get Michael Ironside to play General Graff and Elizabeth Berkley or Denise Richards to play Petra. Christopher "Dark Knight" Nolan - some sci-fi experience and experience with child-like actors. Sam "Webslinger" Raimi - experience with some sci-fi and knows how to film young-looking people getting beat up.
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