quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Thank you Lisa, and the distinction between athiest Jews and Mormon Jews means very little to me.
Either way, neither I nor those who share my religious beliefs have ever been involved in killing Jews for sport. That accusatio was utterly out of line.
Ah. So it's all about you and how you feel. How we feel doesn't matter. The fact that there've been all sorts of versions of Christianity over the past 17 centuries and that we aren't even slightly interested in delving into their various theologies to see whether we're safe... well, that doesn't mean much to you. Fair enough: why should it?
But it means something to us. And if you're so entirely bereft of empathy that you can't see that you (Christians) are like sweating dynamite for most of us, that's not my problem.
Why do you think so many Jews are so bloody hypersensitive? It's fear. Well earned fear. Justified fear. We've had times in history when the non-Jews we lived among were nice, like they are for the most part in the US today. It's never lasted. Never. How many times do we play Charlie Brown with Christians and other gentiles as Lucy before even you figure we have a right to be a bit on edge?
I always figured Charlie Brown was an idiot, btw. Either don't try to kick the ball any more, or boot Lucy into orbit.
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quote:If you want to be Canadian/Christian/whatever, you have to be prepared to accept the whole responsibility and benefits of that. You can't just cherry-pick and say that you're Christian when it is of benefit and then immediately disavow it when it is not.
But that's wrong. Part of being Mormon is believing that we are punished for our own sins. No original sin, no Adam's transgression, and no sins of lunatics a thousand years ago.
Conversely, I don't expect present-day citizens of Illinois to apologize to me.
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Oddly enough, the one person I know personally who was kidnapped (and, I presume, killed) was kidnapped in Israel.
I think Lisa is referring to Child Protection Services.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
the stealing of kids is actually because when a child seeks to become a wizard they have to take a test, if they fail the test they die.
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Oddly enough, the one person I know personally who was kidnapped (and, I presume, killed) was kidnapped in Israel.
I think Lisa is referring to Child Protection Services.
I wasn't trying to refute her allegation; I just thought it curious.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: As for why you might want to participate, I don't know. If I were Jewish, I would want to participate to make it clear that Lisa does not represent me or my people.
It's a difficult situation, Rabbit. Leave her alone. Rivka's wishing I'd just shut up, because she knows that as much as she disagrees with many of my positions and virtually all of the way in which I express them, if she were to start discussing this openly, she'd either have to fudge things or offend you.
Deal with it, Rabbit. We're a separate people, and we'll always be one. We have a task in the world, and it's going to get done even if it offends your sensibilities. And at the end of the day, you'll realize that it was a good thing.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: For some time, I was of the opinion that Lisa was actually some sort of anti-semite impersonating an obnoxious spiteful Lesbian Jew in order to provoke anti-semitic feelings.
No, you weren't. That's rhetoric, and it's cute, but you never actually thought that.
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quote:My point is that I would be paranoid and worried that the U.S. might turn into France and that more serious vandalism, synagogue burnings,and murders are up next. And that even though I am protected by U.S. law, U.S. law is created by the majority opinion of its citizens.
I don't understand how the existence of Israel reduces antisemitism in the US. If anything, in recent years, I have observed antisemitism increasing in the US as Americans become increasingly disturbed by Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Are you simply saying that anti-semitism in the US would bother you more if you did not have the option of fleeing to Israel or do you really think there would be more anti_semitism in the US if Israel was not a Jewish state.
quote:And that even though I am protected by U.S. law, U.S. law is created by the majority opinion of its citizens. And if the majority of citizens in the U.S. decided not to like Jews, then that'd be it for me.
That isn't actually correct. You're rights as a Jew are protect by several amendments to the US constitution and it would take a great deal more than a majority of citizens deciding not to like Jews to change that. Right now in the US, the majority of Americans (at least by some polls) have negative views of Mormons and Muslims, in some areas like the Bible Belt that's probably even a super majority but that has not resulted in restriction of my legal rights or the legal rights of Muslims in the US. I guess it happened to the Japanese during WW II, so perhaps its possible but it hardly seems like a realistic fear. I find it very difficult to imagine any change in the US that would result in amendment of the US constitution to make discrimination against Jews or any other religious or ethnic group legal.
And by the way, although my religion is not nearly as old as yours and has not had the severe persecution you have experienced, my ancestors were driven from their homes in the US at gun point because of their religion. If the US government were to decide that was acceptable again, I would have no country of refuge.
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posted
I think it is a very distinct possibility. If that's really who you are, well done! You are doing an excellent job! Your leader must be very proud of you for the way you make Israel look so bad.
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Oddly enough, the one person I know personally who was kidnapped (and, I presume, killed) was kidnapped in Israel.
I think Lisa is referring to Child Protection Services.
Um... no. I'm talking about milk carton kids. Some are runaways. Many (particularly the ones who went missing youngest) are not.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: the stealing of kids is actually because when a child seeks to become a wizard they have to take a test, if they fail the test they die.
See, now if I'd understood that, I never would have been worried.
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quote:Deal with it, Rabbit. We're a separate people, and we'll always be one. We have a task in the world, and it's going to get done even if it offends your sensibilities.
God may indeed have a plans for you, but since you were unable to stand against the Romans, unable to stand against the Babylonians, unable to stand again the Nazis, I sincerely doubt you will be able to stand against world opinion today. If God does actually want you to be in Israel, perhaps you should start persuading the rest of the world you deserve to be there rather than offending our moral senses.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: For some time, I was of the opinion that Lisa was actually some sort of anti-semite impersonating an obnoxious spiteful Lesbian Jew in order to provoke anti-semitic feelings.
No, you weren't. That's rhetoric, and it's cute, but you never actually thought that.
On what grounds do you think you have the right to make that claim. I am the world expert on my thoughts and I'm sorry Lisa, but you are wrong on this. My orginal statement is the honest truth. I pretty much dismissed you as a Neo-Nazi troll for a very long time. I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only one at hatrack who has entertained that idea from time to time either. If you find that difficult to believe, you are lacking in self awareness.
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quote:We have a task in the world, and it's going to get done even if it offends your sensibilities. And at the end of the day, you'll realize that it was a good thing.
posted
For clarification, most unexpected disappearances of children (17 yrs old or less) are runaway situations. Most of those that are not runaways are abduction by non-custodial parents or other close caregivers -- especially those abducted while quite young.
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Added: Nicole Neal did a series on this topic ("How Dangerous is Childhood?") a few years ago in The Palm Beach Post, summarizing demographics and odds. The excerpt is from Part 2:
quote:Child abduction is the airplane crash of parental fears.
Intellectually, we know the odds: The chances of dying aboard a plane are slim (Lifetime odds: 1 in 500,000, and that’s for frequent fliers). But emotionally, we aren’t convinced. ... Either way, with 60,700,000 children 14 and under in the United States, the odds of your child being the victim of an Adam Walsh-style abduction are roughly 1 in a million.
You’d be wiser to cancel those horseback-riding lessons. Your child is more likely to be killed in an equestrian accident. (Odds in one year for people who ride horses: 1 in 297,000.) Or better yet, pull him off the football team. (Yearly odds of dying for youth football players: 1 in 78,260.) And if you really want to protect them, sell your car. (Lifetime odds of dying as a passenger: 1 in 228. Odds of dying this year alone: 1 in 17,625.)
Or, to put another spin on it, your child is 700 times more likely to get into Harvard than to be the victim of such an abduction.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... I guess it happened to the Japanese during WW II, so perhaps its possible but it hardly seems like a realistic fear. I find it very difficult to imagine any change in the US that would result in amendment of the US constitution to make discrimination against Jews or any other religious or ethnic group legal.
You mean aside from a WWIII I have no doubt that if there were a couple more 9/11 attacks, or worse a real Muslim-American war, that Muslims would be subject to legal discrimination.
It took only one 9/11 to get racial profiling, the Patriot Act, and warrant-less wiretapping after all.
And as gays know, you don't necessarily need even that to make discrimination legal.
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quote:Um... no. I'm talking about milk carton kids. Some are runaways. Many (particularly the ones who went missing youngest) are not.
You are aware that the majority of those kids were kidnapped by a non-custodial parent who has gone into hiding. There are very few children kidnapped by strangers in the US. It does happen but the overwhelming majority of kidnappings would be better described as custody disputes than anything else. Unless Tova has other parent(s) who are interesting in getting custody and who would be likely to resort to kidnapping, her chances of being kidnapped in the US are vanishingly small.
Edited to note CT beat me too it.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: the stealing of kids is actually because when a child seeks to become a wizard they have to take a test, if they fail the test they die.
See, now if I'd understood that, I never would have been worried.
"So you want to be a Wizard" reference from the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Deal with it, Rabbit. We're a separate people, and we'll always be one. We have a task in the world, and it's going to get done even if it offends your sensibilities.
God may indeed have a plans for you, but since you were unable to stand against the Romans, unable to stand against the Babylonians, unable to stand again the Nazis, I sincerely doubt you will be able to stand against world opinion today. If God does actually want you to be in Israel, perhaps you should start persuading the rest of the world you deserve to be there rather than offending our moral senses.
I don't think they had a strong nation to actually protect them in any of those cases.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... I guess it happened to the Japanese during WW II, so perhaps its possible but it hardly seems like a realistic fear. I find it very difficult to imagine any change in the US that would result in amendment of the US constitution to make discrimination against Jews or any other religious or ethnic group legal.
You mean aside from a WWIII I have no doubt that if there were a couple more 9/11 attacks, or worse a real Muslim-American war, that Muslims would be subject to legal discrimination.
It took only one 9/11 to get racial profiling, the Patriot Act, and warrant-less wiretapping after all.
And as gays know, you don't necessarily need even that to make discrimination legal.
You are right. But considering how many ethnic groups have been subject to severe legal persecution in just the last century, it does not seem that creating countries with ethnically specific rights for every possible persecuted group is a practical solution to the problem. It seems much more rational to work toward creating many countries that guarantee equal rights for all people and if that fails, we need many countries with open immigration laws for any oppressed persons.
Solving the problem of oppression of minority groups by giving every group a corner where they are the majority doing the oppressing isn't a solution.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Rivka's wishing I'd just shut up, because she knows that as much as she disagrees with many of my positions and virtually all of the way in which I express them, if she were to start discussing this openly, she'd either have to fudge things or offend you.
About as accurate as everything else. Which is to say, not very.
For example, I don't wish you would shut up. I do wish you would use some tact, and make more of a distinction between what things are your opinion and which are halacha.
And I'm not terribly concerned about offending people. I just don't see the point in doing so davka. All nuance in this discussion is loooong gone. Heck, most nuance at Hatrack is long gone, period.
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quote:Deal with it, Rabbit. We're a separate people, and we'll always be one. We have a task in the world, and it's going to get done even if it offends your sensibilities.
God may indeed have a plans for you, but since you were unable to stand against the Romans, unable to stand against the Babylonians, unable to stand again the Nazis, I sincerely doubt you will be able to stand against world opinion today. If God does actually want you to be in Israel, perhaps you should start persuading the rest of the world you deserve to be there rather than offending our moral senses.
I don't think they had a strong nation to actually protect them in any of those cases.
What's your point? Lisa doesn't want the US to protect Israel and is trying to persuade Americans we should stop doing that. She thinks Israel can take care of themselves or perhaps that God will take care of them.
I wonder if she would be willing to have Israel give back all the weapons we've already sold/given Israel and stop using all the military technology we've already shared. I suspect she would.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: But considering how many ethnic groups have been subject to severe legal persecution in just the last century, it does not seem that creating countries with ethnically specific rights for every possible persecuted group is a practical solution to the problem.
This is true. I've been on the record in this thread that Israel (or indeed, most ethnically based nations) is not a practical solution to providing a safe haven.
I'm just saying that Jews (and Chinese, Muslims, etc.) are right to fear that you only need a few sudden events to see a big sudden increase in persecution and discrimination.
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posted
I actually try to do what Rivka doesn't. I also wish that Lisa had more tact. While I often don't agree with her - I respect her tremendously.
I think it is important that I communicate another perspective with more sensitivity and understanding. I hope that I am mildly successful.
Rabbit/Kat - I understand your misgivings about coercive religious adherence. However - I believe Israel only forbids these things in public. For instance - the public display and sale of bread on Passover. Or the gay parade. Homosexuality in Israel is not illegal. Nor is the eating of bread on passover. It is just a law that protects the traditional character of the state of Israel.
I understand how this may offend - but a small paradigm shift may help you see this in a better light. Especially, comparing Israeli law to other theocratic governments makes Israel look mild in it's protection of it's Jewish character.
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quote:Um... no. I'm talking about milk carton kids. Some are runaways. Many (particularly the ones who went missing youngest) are not.
You are aware that the majority of those kids were kidnapped by a non-custodial parent who has gone into hiding. There are very few children kidnapped by strangers in the US.
Specifically, it ranges from about 40-120 children per year, out of more than 60,000,000 children under age 14 in the US.
(A pleasure to concur. I am delighted that the overall situation is not as dire as much media reporting and stories would have us believe.)
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Edited to add: I care about making the clarification because investing in time and money to worry about or fight against stranger abduction of children in the US detracts from worrying about and fighting against much, much greater risks to our children's well-being, many of which are easier to prevent than this very very rare event, even when it does occur.
But I'm not involved in the larger discussion; I have nothing to add, and I could only make things worse here.
quote:Ah. So it's all about you and how you feel. How we feel doesn't matter. The fact that there've been all sorts of versions of Christianity over the past 17 centuries and that we aren't even slightly interested in delving into their various theologies to see whether we're safe... well, that doesn't mean much to you. Fair enough: why should it?
Lisa, I never asked you to understand the various theological nuances between different Christian faiths. I asked you to understand why it was offensive to accuse me, directly and personally, of killing Jews for sport and being part of a groups that kills Jews for sport.
If you don't want to know anything about my beliefs or the groups with which I associate, no problem. Just don't accuse of killing for sport until you actually bother to find out whether we have or not.
If you think you are justified in accusing me, directly and personally, of killing Jews for sport or being part of a group that kills Jews for sport, you are an ass. Plain and simple. I challenge you to find one person on this board who thinks that accusation was even remotely justifiable.
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Armoth - I understand perfectly what you are saying, and I think that you are leaving out the enormous, important detail that the Jewish nature of Israel is not restricted to public holidays.
The process of citizenship is one example. It isn't just not selling bread during passover - the discrimination goes much, much deeper than that.
And I'm wildly curious - what about Lisa arouses your respect? Do you extend the same respect to people with her attitude and calls for action who come a religion that isn't yours?
Comparing Israel to other theocracies is damning with faint praise - human-run theocracies are inherently wrong. Israel should be better than that, I would think. All weeping over past discrimination is useless and hypocritical if it is used as a justification for becoming the discriminators yourselves.
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posted
I have to agree with Rabbit on that issue. My point was that Christians have been unkind to Jews in the past. I will not accuse Rabbit of the same thing though, not will I accuse any of my fellow American citizens of the same.
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posted
katharina: From her perspective you*'re a Christian. You don't deny being a Christian, you split hairs to say that the other people that in good faith claimed that they were Christian were not in fact Christian.
* by you, I mean Rabbit here
But from an outside perspective, we can only take on good faith that all people that claim they are Christian are in fact Christian. We don't have special powers to read their minds and find out whether in fact they believed in Jesus Christ.
So from her perspective, you're Christian ... a group which has murdered and killed Jews.
*shrug* You don't have to be Christian. You made a choice to identify as Christian.
And as I said. Personally, I think it is more appropriate to go the kmbboots approach on child abuse in the Catholic Church. You take responsibility, you don't deny what happened, you try the best you can to make amends. Splitting hairs directly to the victims just seems imprudent.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: You want to explain that? Rationally?
Armoth - I understand perfectly what you are saying, and I think that you are leaving out the enormous, important detail that the Jewish nature of Israel is not restricted to public holidays.
The process of citizenship is one example. It isn't just not selling bread during passover - the discrimination goes much, much deeper than that.
And I'm wildly curious - what about Lisa arouses your respect? Do you extend the same respect to people with her attitude and calls for action who come a religion that isn't yours?
Comparing Israel to other theocracies is damning with faint praise - human-run theocracies are inherently wrong. Israel should be better than that, I would think. All weeping over past discrimination is useless and hypocritical if it is used as a justification for becoming the discriminators yourselves.
As I said, I don't believe we are being discriminatory. But perhaps I do not know enough. If you can think of some examples that we can discuss, I'd be more than happy to.
I addressed my reasoning for citizenship above. I have no problem with Christian citizenship.
As for my respect for Lisa. I have respect for her as a person, but that doesn't mean I respect all of her choices. I think that she is sometimes abrasive, and shoots herself in the foot. But, she is fearless, she is passionate about what she believes in she is smart and educated, and she deals with people who disapprove of her and her lifestyle on a regular basis.
An Orthodox Jewish lesbian woman is something that arouses my deepest respects. Especially with what she had to deal with in Israel. It hurt when I read someone calling her a neo-Nazi. That's not very nice. Not that Lisa is very nice, but still, it's a bit much.
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I think its remotely justifiable.
The exact phrase was 'you and your co-religionists' Mucus. Explain how that is remotely justifiable. Do you reject the premise that one should find out whether a person associated themselves with a group before making such and accusation? You are Chinese and some Chinese groups killed intellectuals for sport during the cultural revolution. Would you consider it remotely justifiable if I said 'you and your kind have killed intellectuals for sport'.
If you then pointed out that you and your family opposed the cultural revolution, would you consider it remotely justifiable if I said, that distinction was irrelevant to me, I can't be expected to differentiate between different stripes of Chinese?
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quote:As I said, I don't believe we are being discriminatory. But perhaps I do not know enough. If you can think of some examples that we can discuss, I'd be more than happy to.
I addressed my reasoning for citizenship above. I have no problem with Christian citizenship.
I gave two examples at the start of this thread. Do you consider it just that the Knesset requested the LDS church give up their right to speak publicly about their religion in order for BYU to build a branch campus in Jerusalem.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... Would you consider it remotely justifiable if I said 'you and your kind have killed intellectuals for sport'.
Uh yeah.
I'm Chinese. Chinese people have killed intellectuals at many times in history dating back to at least the first emperor of China.
That was kind of the whole point of my native American example. _____
I don't reject the principle whether one should find out whether a person is associated with a group before making such an accusation. But AFAIK, you're on record stating that you are in fact Christian. You placed yourself in that group.
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posted
The phrasing of "you and your" is obviously a crappy one. If someone said "you and your country killed native americans" I'd tell them that "you are mistaken, I've never anybody".
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posted
I am finding an interesting comparison between Lisa's idea that discrimination is okay if her group is the one doing the discrimination and the equally horrible twist on the idea of American exceptionalism we are seeing with the torture debate. There is in both the odd sense that because "we" (whoever that is) are the people doing it, it is okay. "We" must have a good reason for it because we are exceptional.
I believe that exceptional lies in what you do rather than who you are and when you behave like an "unexceptional" country or people, you are no longer exceptional.
Added: Historically, lots of bad things happen when one ethnic/religious/national group believes that it has a more special mission or place in history than other groups.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: ... If you then pointed out that you and your family opposed the cultural revolution, would you consider it remotely justifiable if I said, that distinction was irrelevant to me, I can't be expected to differentiate between different stripes of Chinese?
(I think this was added later.)
Think about it this way.
kmbboots apologizes (or is at least apologetic) for the child abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. I don't for one moment think she was directly involved. In fact, I think she might be too young to have been alive for any of it.
I would sincerely hope that if she did encounter someone that identifies with the victims that they would in fact understand that difference.
But I think it would be presumptuous to assume that they *must* understand that difference and agree with it. I think trust has to be earned over a longer period of time.
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: So from her perspective, you're Christian ... a group which has murdered and killed Jews.
*shrug* You don't have to be Christian. You made a choice to identify as Christian.
And as I said. Personally, I think it is more appropriate to go the kmbboots approach on child abuse in the Catholic Church. You take responsibility, you don't deny what happened, you try the best you can to make amends. Splitting hairs directly to the victims just seems imprudent.
You really that's the most appropriate approach? How about this one: Don't accuse someone of committing a crime unless they actually committed a crime.
I don't care what religion Rabbit is. Lisa accusing her of killing Jews makes as much sense as Rabbit trying to collect from Lisa all the money that Bernie Madoff stole from her fellow white people.
This entire line of reasoning is an excellent example of the harm of all this hyper-nationalistic groupthink, and why any ethnic or religious group sequestering themselves and inbreeding for thousands of years is a terrible idea.
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posted
I think group guilt in general is completely ridiculous. People are culpable for what they have done and what they had a personal part in supporting or allowing to happen. They are not culpable for what people did centuries before they existed, and they are not culpable for what someone belonging to their race or religion is doing right now on the other side of the world.
You are only accountable for that for which you have some responsibility.
This holds for all races and religions and groups in history.
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Think about it this way.
kmbboots apologizes (or is at least apologetic) for the child abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. I don't for one moment think she was directly involved. In fact, I think she might be too young to have been alive for any of it.
I would sincerely hope that if she did encounter someone that identifies with the victims that they would in fact understand that difference.
But I think it would be presumptuous to assume that they *must* understand that difference and agree with it. I think trust has to be earned over a longer period of time.
Thanks, Mucus. Sadly, the child abuse scandal, while somewhat addressed, is far from over. MY cousin is a (rather noteworthy) activist and advocate for victims of sexual abuse by priests. He is himself a priest and has spoken about the impact that his apologizing has for victims. It is usually the first time someone for the Church has apologized.
As a part of a group, I am not individually responsible for the actions of members of that group, but I am corporately responsible for the actions of that group, particularly if those actions were endorsed by the group as a whole.
Another example: I personally protested our invasion of Iraq, including participating in civil disobedience. That doesn't mean I can wash my hands of responsibility for our actions there.
I do think that "you and your co-religionists killed Jews for sport" is misleading and inflammatory.
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quote:As I said, I don't believe we are being discriminatory. But perhaps I do not know enough. If you can think of some examples that we can discuss, I'd be more than happy to.
I addressed my reasoning for citizenship above. I have no problem with Christian citizenship.
I gave two examples at the start of this thread. Do you consider it just that the Knesset requested the LDS church give up their right to speak publicly about their religion in order for BYU to build a branch campus in Jerusalem.
I think that LDS should have been allowed to build a branch campus, but not based on an ultimatum. I think that a law against missionizing is appropriate.
Plugged into the framework of publicly respecting Judaism in Israel, I think that is pretty reasonable.
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posted
"God may indeed have a plans for you, but since you were unable to stand against the Romans, unable to stand against the Babylonians, unable to stand again the Nazis, I sincerely doubt you will be able to stand against world opinion today. If God does actually want you to be in Israel, perhaps you should start persuading the rest of the world you deserve to be there rather than offending our moral senses. "
Frankly, Israel is one of the 20 or so most religiously free nations in the world. It is surrounded by 20 of the least religiously free nations in the world, and most of those are bent on destroying Israel.
If you started applying your moral sense equally to all nations, you'd never have time to worry about most of what Israel is doing, because compared to whats going on in the rest of the world, its pretty much bupkus.
And that is not to dismiss the plight of the Palestinian people at all. What has happened to them is pretty horrible. But they could have had a nation a dozen times over already, if not for awful leadership. And the UN, the US, the Arab nations, Israel, Britain, are all responsible for that plight, not just Israel. But residents and citizens of israel? Have it a whole hell of a lot better than the vast majority of the people around the world.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:They steal kids here.
The odds of your daughter being kidnapped here are surprisingly low, you realize.
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quote:So your saying Japan is evil and corrupt?
I think it'd be hard to look at the Japanese government and conclude anything else.
So by this measure then every government in the world is evil and corrupt.
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Not really. Even modern countries like Japan and Italy have problems that you can't say other modern countries have.
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I think it'd be hard to look at the Japanese government and conclude anything else.
So by this measure then every government in the world is evil and corrupt.
I know nothing good will come of trying to engage Blaine on a rational level, but God help me, I have to ask.
I can infer two things from that question. Which is correct?
a. You think that Japan has the most moral, incorruptible government in the world.
b. You think that every other government in the world is exactly the same as the Japanese government.
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Blayne Bradley
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I think Japan is a good example of a modern Parliamentary democracy with a good track record for enforcing the rule of law. Its society is functional and stable, assuming we agree on corruption as to mean civil servants and public servants who accept bribes and take favours then the amount of which to my knowledge doesn't exceed average for what amount it happens in other "Western" countries and if "caught" is punished, if by this metric you think the Goverment of Japan is by your implication "wholly corrupt" then so is probably 90% of nations.
Now if you say its corrupt because they do not subscribe to your brand of moral thinking then thats just a wall banger right there as whats makes your moral opinion more valid then there's? Morality is relative.
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