I finished reading EinE last night and I must say that while I enjoyed many things about the book, overall I am rather disappointed. Those of us who have been reading all of the Enderverse short stories over at IGMS have already read a rather large portion of this book. This in and of itself wasn't that big of a deal seeing as the characters and events in those stories were expanded upon and given closure.
I suppose my main issue with this novel was that it just felt so pointless. To me it didn't feel like a cohesive novel, but more a string of short stories. I was left feeling that a couple more stories over at IGMS would have accomplished what this novel was trying to do.
That being said, there are little nuggets throughout the novel that I simply loved (that last scene with Graff is chief among them). And the publication of ANY Enderverse novel or short story is cause for celebration.
So thank you Mr. Card for this gift.
Now it's time to sit back and wait for the next installment in the life of the greatest fictional character ever put on page, Bean.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Nov 2008
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And Scrooby.....I really think the point was to bring everything together again. I, personally, have never been to IGMS. I didn't even know it was stories within the Enderverse untill very recently. Hopefully you do get your closure in the future...which I do think you will.
It seems like a prelude to Shadows in Flight to be honest. A very good prelude in my opinion. I'm very happy that I have a connection between Ender's Game and the rest of the books now.....especially since I can either go Ender's Game to Ender in Exile, or go Ender's Game to Ender's Shadow....it allows two different paths. I love it.
Posts: 115 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I hope I'm not repeating something already discussed, but I don't want to read this last page for fear of spoilers. I'm about 3/4's of the way through the book now. Got no sleep at all last night as I read through to the dawn.
This is one of those nit-picky things. Since we all, more or less, know the story, few of us have probably taken the time to read the plot summary on the dust jacket of the book.
"...out to the colonies. With him went his sister, Valentine, and the core of the artificial intelligence that would become Jane. He wrote The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, and his sister wrote The Speaker for the Dead."
Am I loopy, or did Valentine NOT write 'Speaker for the Dead'. If fact, I'm not sure there is a book called Speaker for the Dead. I was under the impression that all the books that Ender wrote as the Speaker were gathered together in one volume and generally referred to as 'Speaker for the Dead'. But that was never the intended title of a given book.
Am I right, or is my memory failing me?
Val wrote the history of the Battle School and the multi-volume history of the Formic wars before they left Shakespeare colony.
I'm sure this is a small point, and for the most part will go unnoticed by anyone but a compulsively obsessive nitpicker like myself.
posted
I thought the book was awesome! I liked it so much, even though it had a slow start. The only story I had read that was in it was the "good prospects story". I enjoyed this book vey much, thank you!
Posts: 856 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Scrooby - I have a very odd compulsion to do things chronologically, so while I hadn't read things at IGMS (except the stories that were in the book) I felt compelled to go drop the 2.50 on 4 different issues so that I could feel "up to date" in the Ender world before I read Ender in Exile. You can imagine that I was then a little upset that so much of the book was pulled from those short stories.
But this was more just me being upset at myself for my strange compulsion.
As I was reading the book (or more as I was finishing it) I realized that we NEEDED this book. It was necessary. In Speaker for the Dead we see an Ender who is at peace with life, even though he is still trying to fulfill his mission of finding the place for the Hive Queen. I never realized that what we didn't have was the time to see Ender deal with the Post-traumatic stress from the war. I think that that was the reason for this book, so that we could see Ender heal, so we could see the journey that made the Ender in Ender's Game the same person as the Ender in Speaker for the Dead.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
There's a book review of Ender in Exile up on Slashdot.
And I find the tags on the review interesting: wingnut, homophobes, military, cash cow, books scifi, story.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by zvazda: Long time Lurker and first time poster -
Scrooby - I have a very odd compulsion to do things chronologically, so while I hadn't read things at IGMS (except the stories that were in the book) I felt compelled to go drop the 2.50 on 4 different issues so that I could feel "up to date" in the Ender world before I read Ender in Exile. You can imagine that I was then a little upset that so much of the book was pulled from those short stories.
But this was more just me being upset at myself for my strange compulsion.
As I was reading the book (or more as I was finishing it) I realized that we NEEDED this book. It was necessary. In Speaker for the Dead we see an Ender who is at peace with life, even though he is still trying to fulfill his mission of finding the place for the Hive Queen. I never realized that what we didn't have was the time to see Ender deal with the Post-traumatic stress from the war. I think that that was the reason for this book, so that we could see Ender heal, so we could see the journey that made the Ender in Ender's Game the same person as the Ender in Speaker for the Dead.
I agree that it was important to see to process of Ender regaining some semblance of himself after all he was put through. My point was simply that this process was already started in the IGMS stories and the novel just felt like a rehash. I think we would have been given the same insight into Enders recovery with a couple more short stories, say one dealing with him finding the Hive Queen and another with him on Ganges.
This novel to me had no underlining theme or message. It was just Ender did this, then this, then he moved onto this.
All of the other Ender and shadow books left deep imprints on me and this one did not leave much of a mark. That being said I must point out that I none the less enjoyed reading it. Any entry into the Enderverse is welcome and deeply appreciated.
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posted
There are worse tags on amazon. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that OSC has so many supporters on slashdot (based on the comments). It's good to see that some people understand that they can disagree with his personal/political views and still respect him as an author and enjoy his fiction.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Scrooby: I finished reading EinE last night and I must say that while I enjoyed many things about the book, overall I am rather disappointed. Those of us who have been reading all of the Enderverse short stories over at IGMS have already read a rather large portion of this book.
I felt the same way, Scrooby. A little bit of recycling is okay with me, and I think it was done well with the release of "A War of Gifts"; just a chapter or so was repeated. But did anyone else read "Gold Bug" before this? When I realized how much of the first part of the book was just that story, I felt a bit disappointed. I enjoyed the part of the plot that focused on Ender, but I basically skipped over all of the "Gold Bug" plot because I'd read it before.
That could have made the first half of the book a bit slow for my liking, but actually overall I felt that there were pacing issues. Perhaps it's just because Exile is a different sort of book, but I found that it took more of an effort to keep my focus and read it than most of the Ender and Bean books, except perhaps Xenocide and parts of Children.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I really loved it. I still like Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind better, but this is a great addition to the series. I really love how it connected to the shadow series (much needed). And it started into Ecological/Biological/(xenobiological). I'm a biology major and I love that stuff. I'm also happy with all that it went into the Formics, My main study is Myrmicology (study of ants) and I find the Formics fascinating.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
If you havn't read Ender in Exile or Children of the Mind yet then you probably should not read this post (spoilers) but I just wanted to vent. I thought the book was great as I enjoy all of the Ender books, but there were two flaws. One, the "sequals" will never get too exciting because you have somewhat of an idea of what will happen given Speaker for the Dead. That also means that nothing can change the Enderverse too much because if it's too great a change then it would conflict 3000 years later. However, Card's acquired the skill of making it all fit with only some stuff that doesn't match up. At the end of his audiobook, he actually said something about mentioning such oversights in the forum but with as much as I've read the books (almost religiously), I notice so many little things that don't really matter all that much because the story is still what it is and it doesn't make the story any less enjoyable. The second thing however that did upset me a bit was Graff's final "retirement." To me, Graff is God of the Enderverse. They actually mention it throughout the books how he and Mazer Rackham try to play God. He's always been the one that I look to as the all-powerful one. When they started putting him into stasis, I thought that he might very well end up going on throughout all of Card's future works. Then he ends up fired and stuck on Earth waiting for death. After keeping him that long, his fading out was almost as depressing as Ender's death in Children of the Mind. The only hope that I hang on to in terms of Graff is that he is still alive at the end of the book. Card noted about the Peter and his parents dying but he didn't say anything about Graff. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the future.
Posts: 54 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Finished Ender in Exile a few days ago. I didn't want to post immediately, but to allow the book to sink in. Unfortunately, I don't feel much better about it than when I finished it. The truth is that it was a bit of a let-down. So I agree with the other voices here who've said similar things in this thread.
Now, like most on this board, I think Ender's Game and Speaker were truly magnificent, brilliant books (especially when seen as a whole, together, as they should be). Books I continue to re-read and continue to enjoy each and every time. The extension of Speakers in Xenocide/Children of the Mind (and obviously we await Ender in Flight to see how this story is supposed to end!), while not at the same level, was still interesting and sometimes quite powerful.
Ender's Shadow was amazing. Like lightning in a bottle, this is one of the most refreshing and original 'prequels' (if that's the right word) I've read. It too is a brilliant book. But in my opinion it's the last great book OSC has written in the Enderverse.
I thought the Shadows-extensions were definitely sub-par. I read them, of course, but I didn't particularly enjoy them. To me the plots seemed like following someone else's game of Risk. On the boring side. I was most disappointed by the depiction of Peter. To me, the Peter character of the later Shadows books simply doesn't ring true and, to me, undermines the powerful Peter character of Ender's Game. Those books also seemed hastily written.
I had high expectations for EiE. But ultimately, to me, it's closer to the later Shadow-book than to Ender's Shadows, not to mention the original books (EG and SofD). Now, this book didn't seem hastily written, except for the last part which appeared quite rushed. But I understand it's because a lot of this material actually appeared already in the form of short stories. I haven't read those stories yet, but it's apparent in the book. There isn't much of a structure. The narrative doesn't really "work" because there is no tension. We all know that Ender will be just fine, as will Valentine, and we all know that neither will marry. So what exactly is the "pay-off"? Now, of course in Ender's Shadow we also knew how the War would end, but we could powerful new material on Bean's background and saw everything from a different set of eyes. In Ender's Shadow the tension is constant.
To my mind, Ender and Valentine in this book are almost flat characters. This is perhaps appropriate in the short story context, but things don't hang together very well. At the end, although I enjoyed reading the book, it never delivered on its implicit promises. Particularly, the last third or so of the book fell flat. At the end I almost wished this had not been written.
Valentine mentions in the book that she writes too fast. Perhaps it's true for OSC too. Maybe he's so talented that sometimes he doesn't give himself sufficient time to truly write as well as he can.
Now, I continue to be a big fan of OSC. I don't begrudge him from having to provide for his family. And I will continue to buy his Ender books the day they came out but I am hoping the next one will actually be a worthy successor to EG, SofD and ES.
Posts: 64 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I have yet to finish the book, I'm trying to make it last because I'm sure another Ender's book may never happen or may not happen for a long time again. Anyone else feel a small lack of passion in this book from Orson? As if he was not into writing this book as much? I'm not feeling as much individual personality from any of the characters...like their personality quirks. Bean was so BEANISH...this time...Ender feels like Valentine feels like Peter feels like Petra... Maybe it'll happen further into the book. I'm not even past page 100, but close.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by inv77: I'm not even past page 100, but close.
For me the book didn't catch my attention until the pages got into the 200s, probably around 230-ish. But it wasn't until the last few chapters that I actually felt the "passion" you describe.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Ender is like a dear old beloved friend to me, and this is a chance to spend time with him again, and see how his life is going. So, for me, the 'pay off' is being there and knowing the details.
Further it is the expansion and resolution of several plot lines. I EAGERLY await 'Shadows in Flight' because for me Bean's death and his fate are still unresolved. He was in the Shadow series and then he was gone, and that is certainly not enough.
I put off reading the final book in the Shadow series because I loved the character Bean so much I couldn't bear to have him die. And now his fate is unresolved, and I have a hunger that will never go away until I know what happened.
I had that same hunger for Ender, and while there are still huge gaps in his story, and even knowing his ultimate fate, I still hunger for his company. I still hunger to be with him again.
And that's what this books was, it was a change to sate that hunger by visiting an old and very interesting friend. And I do not regret one minute of time I spent with him. And look forward to spending time with him again.
In a sense, O.S.Card is the master of seduction. He makes you 'want'; he makes you 'desire'. I want more Ender, I want more Bean, I want more New Peter, and I want more Beanie-babies. I want rsolution to the great unknowns in their lives. Until that want is fully satisfied, I will never stop reading the stories in this series.
Michiel: To my mind, Ender and Valentine in this book are almost flat characters.
Just speculation, but I wonder if you didn't want Ender and Val to be all buddy-buddy best friends. But you had to know that when people are re-united like this, there is a transition period as the get to know and trust each other. I don't think Ender and Val actually reached that point until the end of this book. Ender, though indirectly, reveals his greater life-long mission to her. That is a sign of trust. That is their ultimate rejoining as brother and sister, and friends.
In that sense, the books ended on the perfect note. Val sees that her brother is smart and competent, and that she does not need to babysit him. She just needs to be his sister and friend. That, for me, was the beginning of their great adventure. An adventure the eventually leads to Ender and Val fulfilling their biological destiny of being parents, of being physically and emotionally loved and cared for. And the creation of New Peter, and with his creation, the adventure can continue, or at least I very much hope the adventures of New Peter continue. I certainly see tons of story and unresolved storylines there.
posted
Some of the letters in this book had me ready to start bustin out the water works. Not so much because of the content but the fact that I know now that it happend.
Spoiler Below
Like Ender's letter home, and Ender finding out about Bean/Petra/Peter. Very satisfying.
Posts: 115 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by All4Nothing: Some of the letters in this book had me ready to start bustin out the water works. Not so much because of the content but the fact that I know now that it happend.
Spoiler Below
Like Ender's letter home, and Ender finding out about Bean/Petra/Peter. Very satisfying.
lol, I totally agree. good stuff.
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posted
My favorite parts of the whole Ender saga has been the before chapter emails/conversations/ etc. They are the vital to the whole experience and I'm thinking in Shadows in flight the before chapter convos will be between Bean and his children. At least that's my hope.
Ender in Exile is a book that needed to be written, it tied so many elements of the seires together for me. But poor OSC, we still have like 15 years of lost Ender time left to cover if he wants to lol.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Just finished. In all I enjoyed the book very much, and it even had me shaking at one point.
There was one part that seemed a glaring discrepancy, but since no one else has mentioned it I'm hoping that I just missed the explanation: In the letter that Peter sends to Val that gets Ender in trouble with Morgan, he specifically states that he is including letters from their folks, to Ender (pg. 142). Could someone explain this to me?
Posts: 3 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
how about in EG when val tells ender(on the lake) what peter and herself were doing, but then in EiE ender is amazed to find out that val was Desmothenes? i still love all the books and do somewhat enjoy finding the inconsistencies.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I enjoyed EiE but it's probably my least favorite of the now 10 books (if you include War of Gifts).
****SPOILERS AHEAD****
While I enjoyed the story lines of of Allesandra and her character was really nice and deep, I wanted more of Ganges. Yeah, I know, OSC addressed it in the back of the book but I felt like the Achilles II storyline was really rushed.
In the end I think the problem was that the initial rumors of the book were that it was going to focus on the Ganges storyline so when it didn't I was immediately put off.
The stuff that is between Chapter 14-15 or EG as OSC puts it is all really interesting information and I enjoyed it but my expectations were different and that made reading it harder to swallow while reading it.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by schnirro: how about in EG when val tells ender(on the lake) what peter and herself were doing, but then in EiE ender is amazed to find out that val was Desmothenes? i still love all the books and do somewhat enjoy finding the inconsistencies.
All4Nothing already addressed this one: "As far as the Ender knowing Demosthenes identity...like the avid Enderverse fan I am ....I checked it.....on the lake she never really tells Ender that she is Demosthenes. She only hints to how Peter is playing at world domination. "
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"Whatever that means," he said. "It means that you are going to make a difference in the world." And she told him what her and Peter were doing. "How old is Peter, fourteen? Already planning to take over the world?"
Posts: 115 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I haven't read all of the posts here because it will take too much time, so....
Although I do agree with people in saying that EiE was kind of a let down, I will say that I did enjoy the book. The other books in the Ender and Bean saga focused on actions, wars, and philosophical questions of humanity and morality, but there was none of this.
I felt like EiE was more of a continuation of Ender's character. Like, in reading the other books, we find about what Ender ends up as, and how he became that way, but in EiE we find out why he turned into the man he is. I feel that we get a closer look into his psyche, and although there are other main characters, it felt as though their only purpose was to show different parts of Ender.
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posted
Still waiting... for copy to arrive.... Wait... becoming...Unbearable! Postal service... too slow! *scream* Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by IComeAnon87: While I enjoyed the story lines of of Allesandra and her character was really nice and deep, I wanted more of Ganges. Yeah, I know, OSC addressed it in the back of the book but I felt like the Achilles II storyline was really rushed.
In the end I think the problem was that the initial rumors of the book were that it was going to focus on the Ganges storyline so when it didn't I was immediately put off.
The stuff that is between Chapter 14-15 or EG as OSC puts it is all really interesting information and I enjoyed it but my expectations were different and that made reading it harder to swallow while reading it.
I think that we have a similar feeling on this, IComeAnon. In the afterword, OSC writes,
quote:Ender in Exile, Afterword I never meant the book to go this way. I was supposed to spend a few chapters getting Ender from Eros to Shakespeare and on to Ganges...I ended up with a novel which mostly takes place between chapters 14 and 15...
Phillip Absher...bears the distinction of making me throw out several chapters in order to follow up on a plot thread that I had thought was a throwaway, and he convinced me was at the heart and soul of the story. He was right, I was wrong, and the book was the better for it.
So it appears that OSC did in fact intend to write this book mainly focusing on the Ganges story but instead he chose to expand more on the earlier plotlines and Ender-coping-with-annoying-post-war-problems. I feel sort of selfish saying this, but I would much rather have read the book that OSC didn't write. I think that there was a lot of potential in the Ganges storyline, but what we actually got could be divided into two parts: a novel about post-war Ender, and a short story (IGMS-length) about Ganges.
Personally I wish those two had been reversed, with more time devoted to Achilles/Arkanian on Ganges. Or even split into two completely separate books, one about post-war Ender and one that fleshed out the story on Ganges: the kind of split that OSC has done before with Xenocide/Children and Hegemon/Puppets. What's done is done, of course, but I can't help wondering what a fully fleshed out novel centered on the character of Arkanian would be like, center stage of the plot instead of the afterthought at the end of Exile.
So yes, IComeAnon, I agree that the Achilles/Arkanian storyline felt rushed, mostly because I expected a whole novel concerning it and not just a couple of chapters. Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
After the extreme build up of the "bean's missing child" plot line in the shadow series it seemed really easy and a little disappointing how they found and fixed him with only a couple pages of text in this book.
Posts: 49 | Registered: Sep 2008
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Ender: You don't suck because your daddy ain't who you think he is. You're the offspring of my smartest best buddies ever, including Bean who I hardly noticed in EG but apparently I have this deep and abiding love for. But your brainy self can't figure that out even though you're like a bajillion feet tall and look nothing like Achilles.
Achilles: You lie! (nearly kills Ender)
Ender: Ow.
Achilles: (thinks) Huh. That actually makes a lot of sense. Sorry about that, dude. (carries Ender to doctor)
Valentine: You're both idiots.
Ender: No, I just have psychological issues resulting from my beating to death a couple of kids who bullied me. Or maybe I've always had psychological issues. I have a severe concussion so I'm not really sure.
Achilles: I can't be an idiot, because my parents were super brainy apparently. I'm going to call myself Arkanian Delphiki, not to be confused with my brother Andrew Arkanian Delphiki on Earth and Ender Arkanian Delphiki zooming around through space somewhere (I assume Ender told me that although it isn't mentioned in the book).
Ender: Yeah, interesting that I never mention ansible-ing Bean, even though I know the names of the three babies he took with him. Who names a kid Cincinnatus, by the way? I much prefer the two named after me.
Valentine: Let's just get out of here.
Ender: I'm hovering near death here, Val.
Valentine: Pssh, you can't die because you have a whole trilogy left to live through. And I don't want to hear any of this Bean nonsense again. Or about the suitcase you carry that holds one (1) bugger, which I'm going to pretend not to know about in order to keep continuity in the trilogy; the same way I forget about Jane even when you tell me about her in "Investment Counselor."
Ender: Okay fine- I'll never mention Bean in print again for the rest of my published life. I can forget things too you know, or at least pretend to be oblivious that you were Demosthenes and Peter was Locke. After all you never mentioned that in print either.
Valentine: Much easier to keep continuity when you aren't specific. Too bad Peter had to die 20 years younger for the sake of story. Oh, and why did you tell Graff that you saw Peter in your conversations when you specifically only communicated by audio in Shadow of the Giant?
Ender: Bastard lied to me so much in Battle School I thought I'd return the favor. I don't know why I'm pretending to be on speaking terms with him in this book, because he basically ruined my life. Why doesn't he just DIE already?
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Dust jacket blurbs have mistakes all the time.
For instance, one dust jacket for Ender's Game itself posits that Ender is the result of a genetic experiment... and that's pre-Ender's Shadow.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by J-Put: After the extreme build up of the "bean's missing child" plot line in the shadow series it seemed really easy and a little disappointing how they found and fixed him with only a couple pages of text in this book.
The weakest point in the novel, for me. I think OSC was right to realize it wasn't the meat of the story, but I was sorely disappointed that Randall/Achilles/Archanian seemed to have such little depth as a character... I mean, OSC spent most of Ender's Shadow and a lot of Shadow of the Hedgemon just defining Bean's sense of morality, and the way his mind worked... and what do we get with Randall? Pretty much nothing- with hints at a really interesting twist in the "Xenocide" story.
Edit: And by the way, just as a total aside from all the other criticisms, OSC is developing an IQ fetish unlike anything ever seen in literature.
Enders Game: Ender is brilliant. P and V are Brilliant. Parents are ordinary. Rackam is par with Ender. Jeesh members are less-than.
Ender in Exile: Abra turns out to be a child Genius, nephew of the great exobiologist/genius, and brother of the other genius, plus the italian lady is a genius who just seems crazy, and Graph is declared a genius, plus, and let us not forget, Ender is still a genius, and Achilles is the smartest person on Ganges and is manipulating the world through even his limited access to the ansible network, and meanwhile Peter is uniting the Earth under the FPE for all of time through smartness, with Beanie Babies flying through the sky.
Speaker for the Dead: Pepo is a poet and Miro is the smartest person on Lusitania. Novenia is the youngest person to take exams in 2,000 years. Ender now apparently controls minds. Dom Cristau is wise and virtuous, and never appears again. The piggies are all super-duper smart and good at language. We wonder at the power of their minds. Jane reads all books in all libraries and knows everything about everything. Plikt is Ender's student semi-randomly, but deduces the fact that he is both the speaker and the xenocide from a single piece of deductive reasoning when he gets news suspiciously fast... and valentine totally cops to the whole thing right away (good job!)
Xenocide: Wang Mu is smarter than Xing Xao, who is uniquely brilliant like her father, and they meet new-Peter who is as smart as Ender, who by the way is best buddies with a computer that knows everything, and can now bring things into existence through smartness... and meanwhile communicating with the hive queen is like doing calculus in your head.
CoM: Now Grego is essentially the next Einstein, Jane now inhabits the body of Val, plus the trees, and all the computers. Wang Mu is super smart and by the way so is Ella, and Valentine's daughter, whatever her name is, and Peter is traveling instantaneously to just the right places in just the right times to talk to just the right people to change the course of events in the galaxy even though he's only been alive for a couple of months.
Ender's Shadow: Bean is the smartest kid alive in the whole world, who meets the smartest bully in the whole world semi-randomly in Rotterdam. Bean is picked up by the smartest nun in the world.
Shadow Series: It turns out Teresa Wiggin is a genius, and so is John Paul, and they were just playing before... and also all the children in Ender's Jeesh are the smartest people in the world. And also there's this new computer program that is the best in the world. And Petra's babies are the smartest in the world, and apparently now Petra is also the smartest person in the world... but also Peter is now the smartest person in the world and they were kidding before when they called him slow, and also the Beany Babies are going to work together in the future and get so super-smart, that there is no telling what they will be capable of, and they'll make all the other characters look like retards.
Have I missed anything?
OSC is kind of like Patricia Cornwell and her obsession with all her characters being in awesome physical shape, and their being rich and having the ability to speak French and Italian. Or John Grisham's obsession with his characters liking to get up early in the morning. Or lets see... Hemingway's penchant for depressed and stoic male chauvinists. I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books...
quote:I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books...
Why? Are there not enough books by other authors out there that do this that you need OSC to provide them?
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
OSC can write what he wants- I just find it interesting and possibly significant that he seems to need very much to assert that all his characters are very smart. I'd like to see what he'd do without the trope. It's not a demand, it's an observation of my own interests.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
First time poster here. I discovered OSC last December and have read 15 of his books this year.
I just finished Ender in Exile and am on a high - I truly found it satisfying and enjoyable, and was surprised by the criticism in this thread. I love OSC's brilliant characters -- the dialogue and plot is fascinating to read for me (although I will admit that the conversations begin to seem strangely similar). It was great to see Ender right after the war... I loved the letters between Ender & Graff, & seeing the development of the new colony. Such wonderful characters. The plot where Ender secures his governorship on Shakespeare was great. The gold-bugs were very cool too! The last part with Virlomi & Achilles seemed less developed, but it was still interesting to see the question of Bean's last child answered, and what it meant to Petra.
After reading so many Ender/Bean novels I have really grown to love these characters. So it's fun when he revisits them and fills in some details... Ender's parents, Petra, Graff, even Peter and Mazer.
One thing that fell short for me (and this is minor) was Valentine... a bit naggy and less insightful than I expected her to be. I wasn't as impressed with her as I usually am. When do we get a novel more from her perspective? I also was surprised by the similarities between Alessandra and Randall - 2 over-the-top insane moms controlling their children and both break free? But truly these are minor criticisms - I found the novel to be greatly satisfying, hard to put down as they always are. Thanks, OSC! Keep them coming. I am hopeful that introduction of new characters means there will be more books coming.
Can someone remind me if Ender's parents' response to Ender's letter is included in one of the books? I can't remember and would love to read (or re-read) it... Thanks!
Posts: 1 | Registered: Nov 2008
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CRash, that was awesome. (Correction, though. Ender clearly has no idea that Bean and the three genetically challenged babies are on a spaceship somewhere. He bought the party line that they are all long dead.)
EiE: I was not expecting another EG, just a solid Ender tale. And that's what I got. The borrowing of IGMS stories was frustrating (although I hadn't read all of the ones used, just some), but when OSC draws on shorts and doesn't actually use the material, people whine about that. (e.g. Crystal City)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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By now, I tend to judge the Enderverse stories by my reaction at the very end in one way: Do I feel like writing afterwards? After most of the Shadow books, that answer was a definitive no. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Ender's Shadow and Shadow of the Hegemon, but then they sort of lost some of the luster, even though I was interested to see how the story ended. But at the end of Ender's Game, and then especially Speaker for the Dead, (and to a slightly lesser degree X and CotM), they left me with an indescribable and insatiable desire to create something of my own. I don't mean fanfiction (which I've never liked) and I don't mean to write a story that emulates Card's writing style or plot in anyway. I have plenty of my own stories that lay half finished or half begun in the recesses of my harddrive, clamoring to be finished (or begun, in some cases), but I tend to pick at them like vultures over carrion.
EinE left me feeling like I feel after I read Speaker, EG and the other two. I felt reenergized, and it's a welcome feeling after spending months doing only academic writing. Thus I feel this story succeeds on multiple levels, both as an excellently crafted and executed story all by itself, and on a very personal level that very few other writers succeed in sparking.
PS. I have a lot of nitpicking, but I'm going to take an unusual step (for me) and mentally and physically set all of it aside and just enjoy the book. I'm sure he could have written it a 100 different ways and it wouldn't have made it worse, just different, and what he actually did write was quite nice, so I'm perfectly comfortable with just letting it be.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I am almost finished with EinE and have discovered an error between this book and Shadow of the Giant. At the end of SotG Peters conversations with Ender was done without video. However in EinE Ender describes to Hyrum how Peter now looks to him.
Posts: 12 | Registered: Nov 2008
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OSC is kind of like Patricia Cornwell and her obsession with all her characters being in awesome physical shape, and their being rich and having the ability to speak French and Italian. Or John Grisham's obsession with his characters liking to get up early in the morning. Or lets see... Hemingway's penchant for depressed and stoic male chauvinists. I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books... [/QB]
That's less true in his stories outside Enderverse. Most of his character are pretty bright, but the average intelligence is everything not Enderverse is obviously a lot lower.
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Oct 2008
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To be honest, I was a little shocked at how shallow Achilles/Archanian's thinking was in EinE. Maybe he had motivations not stated in the book, but OSC never provided a reasonably explanation of why he was doing anything he did. That surprised me because it is accepted in OSC's books that this is one of the most important parts of any given character.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Orinoco, In my opinion Achilles/Archanian's thinking was not shallow in the grander scheme. He was raised by his mother who was to the best of her abilities quite deceived in her way of thinking. She was living in a disillusioned world of lies that she believed in her heart was true. Children are a product of their upbringing. I am not saying people cannot change however that is my understanding with him having such a disturbed mother in a closed environment that he lived by false truths.
Posts: 12 | Registered: Nov 2008
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I'm angry and happy at the same time. I just received my copy. Why on a Sunday? Because it was delivered to my neighbour's house by mistake and after having it for a whole week he only just thought to take 2 seconds and bring it over!
Ah well, the important thing is that I have it! Thanks so much Mr. Card!!
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NeroWolf666: Orinoco, In my opinion Achilles/Archanian's thinking was not shallow in the grander scheme. He was raised by his mother who was to the best of her abilities quite deceived in her way of thinking. She was living in a disillusioned world of lies that she believed in her heart was true. Children are a product of their upbringing. I am not saying people cannot change however that is my understanding with him having such a disturbed mother in a closed environment that he lived by false truths.
I'd be willing to accept that if he wasn't supposed to be the smartest human being alive. And since he's apparently achieving all these amazing things with his limited access to the ansible, it seems a little strange that he would simply fail to imagine that he wasn't his mother's son. I just didn't buy that.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I see your point. However she raised him as her son and there was no info stating he was not her son. Why would a child especially with Achilles/Archanian's unique gift of early development doubt that the woman who raised him was not his own mother. Intelligent he may be, but his intelligence differed from that of his "Real" father Bean. I think Bean having to rely on his intelligence for survival made his talents more worth while. I believe it was Anton who suggested if Bean had grown up studying DNA and biochemistry he may have been able to save his own life. I am straying from my point I was trying to make and that is this: Your intelligence and actions are shaped by your life experiences and surroundings. A/A may have started slightly doubting himself after confronting Virilomi(?) but since no information would have been available publicly (via the nets) he just had his mothers assurances to go on. And again why would someone simply not believe their own mother?
Posts: 12 | Registered: Nov 2008
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(Correction, though. Ender clearly has no idea that Bean and the three genetically challenged babies are on a spaceship somewhere. He bought the party line that they are all long dead.)
