posted
I have to admit, the Rhaegar-Lynana coupling and parentage of Jon Snow was not one I thought of on my own at all when I first read the stories. That Lynanna may have actually loved Rhaegar, but also loved (less) Robert, and didn't want Robert to think he had done all the slaughter and war over nothing, that's what I thought had happened regarding the "promise me, Ned".
But this take on Jon's parentage makes a lot of sense to me.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I've read them. The first is useless. A series of statements taken out of context that could mean anything or nothing. The second is far more convincing. I am still uncertain. Even if Ned Stark intended to never admit the truth of Jon's parentage (possible) Wylla would not have made the same oath (would she?) so Ned Dayne would have no reason to think Wylla was Jon's mother. I admit, there's a lot of evidence for it, and it's probably what GRRM's going for. But I still don't get the Ned Dayne connection.
What I'd really like to see is a description of events leading to and following the Trident from Rhaegar's perspective. Or perhaps Oswell Whent or even Barristan Selmy. Since only Barristan is alive of those, perhaps we'll get his side of it.
Posts: 354 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote: I, and my girlfriend, who noticed most of the pertinent passages, am completely sure that Sandor Clegane is alive and relatively well.
Yeah, this one is widely held to be true by the fan base. There was an AFFC thread around somewhere (I believe I made that one as well) if you want to look for it.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I'm pretty sure that he's alive, but how well he is remains to be seen. I don't think that the one wearing his old helm is actually Sandor Clegane, though.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sandor is the big, lame, silent gravedigger at the temple on the Quiet Isle, where Brienne and Podrick go. Lots of key dialogue all points to that. In addition to the basics (physical description of a huge man, face covered, with a busted leg), and the fact that Stranger is also at the temple, there is dialogue surrounding the Elder Brother of the temple.
1: "The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the maesters could not cute, and many a woman too."
And then...
2: "...The man you hunt is dead."
Skip the part where the Elder Brother claims to have buried Sandor.
3: "...I came upon him by the Trident, drawn by his cries of pain. He begged me for the gift of mercy, but I am sworn not to kill again. Instead, I bathed his fevered brow with river water, and gave him wine to drink and a poultice for his wound, but my efforts were too little and too late. The Hound died there, in my arms."
4: "Sandor Clegane is dead." (says Brienne) "He is at rest." The Elder Brother paused. "...Would it surprise you to learn that once I was a knight?" ...
And finally, the piece de resistance.
5: "When did it change?" asked Brienne. "When I died at the Battle of the Trident."
He goes into more detail about the battle, ending with how he suffered a mortal wound, fell into the river, and woke up on the Quiet Isle.
So we have a man who can heal nearly any wound, who talks about people "dying" in context of them being reborn. This man found Sandor and tells people The Hound is dead. We also have a man who meets Sandor's physical description at the same place, Quiet Isle.
It fits perfectly, once you know what to look for.
Xavier: Didn't realize there was already a thread. Sorry.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote: Xavier: Didn't realize there was already a thread. Sorry.
Oh, no problem. That wasn't my intent. Just in case you wanted to read the previously discussions on this very subject .
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posted
Bumping this gloriously wonderful thread to note that there's a NEW sample chapter (for Jon) over at GRRM's website: link!Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I was a little leery when I first started the chapter--the writing in the dream sequence felt a little clumsy to me. He shook that off pretty quickly, though, and I loved the final paragraphs of the chapter.
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posted
I think I'm going to resist. I've decided that part of my disappointment with AFFC was because I'd already read the most interesting chapters before the book was ever released.
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posted
I felt exactly the same way about the 4th book, and resolved to resist the urge to read the sample chapters, but that was back when I believed him that book 5 would be out within a year of book 4. Now I'm just wanting something from this world.
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posted
I'm still resolutely refusing to read book 4 until book 5 is released! (and hoping that no such nasty fate as GRRM likes to visit upon his characters will befall him . . .)
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Belle: I have this feeling Jaime will kill Cersei.
This is an old post, and I don't know if it has been discussed any further in this thread, but I believe this too. The fortune-teller told Cersei she would be strangled by her "palanquin" (or something like that) which means "little brother". But I looked it up; Cersei and Jaime are twins, but Jaime is the younger of the two. So Jaime is her "little brother" too. Cersei is so convinced that it's going to be Tyrion; that makes me think she's got to be wrong.
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posted
Cersei was a much more interesting character before we got into her head. I think that she's unique in that (in this series)
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posted
Yeah, we didn't learn much about her we didn't already know. She is the only POV character who isn't more sympathetic now that we know her better.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Cersei was a much more interesting character before we got into her head.
Absolutely.
Yep. And though I wish her chapters could've been narrated by someone else, I don't mind that she's not complicated, and that she is pretty much just an arrogant, evil jerk. Some people are just like that, and as much as I love GRRM's complex characters, it's also realistic to have characters that are pretty much irredeemable.
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posted
Just because something is realistic doesn't mean I want it taking up valuable page space in GRRM's series. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Oh, agreed. I would've rather that Cersei's chapters were narrated by someone else. Or probably a bunch of someones, like how he did the Iron Island ones and the Sunspear ones, which were some of my faves.
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posted
It was amazing to me how I went from hating Jaime to loving him, just from having his POV. It was just as much fun, however, to continue hating Cersei when I got her POV. (I did enjoy her chapters, though, maybe because it was kinda fun to watch her self-destruct.)
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Agreed about Cersei being more interesting and seeming more intelligent before we got her POV. I'm kinda hoping she gets killed off sooner rather than later. And I'm with Xav about the not reading new chapters. I want to read it, but I would rather read the whole book and not be disappointed with it.
I'll probably give in at some point, though, and read it, since it's a Jon chapter. I love Jon.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Me too. He's probably one of my two or three favorite characters in the series.
I think that my disappointment with the 4th book had less to do with having read the sample chapters and more with its pacing and general lack of "A list" characters.
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posted
I liked the last book, although it was the weakest of them so far. I liked having Cersei's POV too, because I could see where her mistakes were going to lead, or at least more so than she seemed to. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Apparently, the new POV for ADWD has been revealed, by GRRM at one of his Spain signings.
It's not terribly spoilerific, but I'll put it under a bit more space just in case.
It's Melisandre. From what I can tell, this was figured out by elimination - the new POV won't be one of the Tyrells (Margaery, Loras), nor is it Sandor.
I'm a bit excited for this, but only on the condition that Davos isn't dead. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I thought the new POV was Quentyn? or was there another new POV? Or is this a holdover from AFFC miniPOVs like the Dorne and Iron Island series of POVs (just kill everyone else already and get back to the core stories. )
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Less than a week ago, one of my coworkers and I were talking about who his poorest choices for POV characters would be. Melisandre was behind only Howland Reed.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Here's a sample chapter from A Dance with Dragons that's different from the ones GRRM has had up at his website.
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