posted
Okay, then I guess I take it back. I have seen out and out spamming from people who are non-members--posts on how to rape kids and such, iirc. I just mean this is the worst I've seen from regular posters--people who claim (implicitly at least) to want to belong to a community, but are being quite destructive of that community.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Why in the world would I call the Pope a Pimp? I do not know about the rest of the world but Troll must mean willing to stand up for what I believe in here. Straight talk must not be the norm.
If you want to have forceful opinions, real opinions that you believe in and will fight for then you should practice grabbing your sack and saying it proud. If you want to whine and ask for a consensus, good luck to you.
The analogy: I guess it is that if you will not take it to the next level, the guy pushing your buttons will. Willingness to push it on up will keep your woman safe.
[ December 15, 2004, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Jar Head ]
Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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You know Icarus, I'm not sure if you are referring to any of my posts at all.
But I didn't (and didn't meant to) insult America.
Just to say that other people in other countries may not, and often do not, agree with the view that America is the greatest country in the world, and the only one which offers freedom to its people.
I'm not suggesting my country is the greatest either. Heck, there's a lot of things I'd like to change here as well. But there's also a lot of good things, and the US does not have a monopoly on such virtues.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:If you want to have forceful opinions, real opinions that you believe in and will fight for then you should practice grabbing your sack and saying it proud.
Can I please take lessons in how to have real opinions from you. I don't know how.
Dagonee
Icarus, it was a regular poster - one who's been here a lot longer than I.
posted
There you go referencing literature I know nothing about! Well okay I do know the Lay of Beren and Luthien, but I only read it expecting some hard-core action!
Imogen, you are free to love your country and praise it to high heaven, it is a fine distinction that was once summed up in the musical Oklahoma, 'I ain't saying I'm no better then anybody body else, but I'll be damned if I ain't just as good!'
Your country does not need me to defend it or praise it, it has you. I will praise and defend mine, like that girl at the dance, yours has you. If you have a poverty of love for your place in the world, then you should move.
Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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There's not a lot of laying going on in Tolkien. But the Sam/Frodo fanfic is pretty hardcore though. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Tearing the community apart! This is a discussion board not a discussion bored. I have to say Dag that while you are at times worth paying attention too, you seem to be way off base on this one, sarcasm directed at JH comes off as vanity on your part. He is clearly speaking from the heart, and doing so with half the words and twice the color and clarity you generally show.
You remind me of the two old guys from the Muppet Show. They used to crack me up! Did you see the Mark Hamal episode?
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We game together! If you must know... I got him interested in this forum. Him and three others, watch and see if you can spot the BC posse! I wanted to make sure some of my wisdom remained behind to delight and intrigue after I am gone!
Jar Head carry the torch brother! BC
Posts: 1249 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Guys like that make me so ashamed to be an American. It isn't insulting your country when you hold them accountable. Wrong is wrong. Patriotism should not be about spewing out venom every five seconds when one points out certain uncomfortable facts. *wonders why I bother*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: I have to say Dag that while you are at times worth paying attention too, you seem to be way off base on this one, sarcasm directed at JH comes off as vanity on your part. He is clearly speaking from the heart, and doing so with half the words and twice the color and clarity you generally show.
Dag is rarely unclear, uninteresting, or unnecessarily wordy. However, a few years writings briefs for Kirkland & Ellis may change that though. Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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We are completely different, he is Army Infantry and I am Marine MP, They do not even qualify in the standing unsupported! Some of us are going to Iraq! Others will stay to insure that there are no gaps in coverage for Hatrack.
I like Sara so I am staying!
Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Discussing... well the topic started as a those who really support this country should serve it. As one who is doing so with actions, I feel little need to bandy crooked words with those who are not.
As for those who think they live in a better place, well they have never been a young man in Iowa! I do not need faith to know God, I have fact, I do not need to go to heaven, I'll just go home.
I hope to get published while deployed Dag, any advice will be welcome. Of course I will still have to GM for morale reasons so we will see how much I can write.
PS Anybody know a good game in Central Illinois for my Stay-Behind pals in the rear with the gear?
quote: As for the US being in the front stage of world politics - that doesn't make the US great. That makes the US powerful.
Some would argue that greatness is power.
quote: I'm assuming you meant wouldn't mind, if I'm wrong, please disregard the following
You assumed correctly.... too bad your gone.
quote: But now I've read BeanCounter's post and boy was I wrong. Packing my bags and waiting for my green card as I type.
Hmm it sounds like someone took BC seriously... Who would have thought...
quote: To me, in my opinion, your milage may vary, it takes more integrity to say "This war is not right" and protest it than to say "I'm not mentally suited for war so I'm going to sit this out, but everyone else who doesn't have my little hang-ups should go."
Okay, how is it Stryker gets away with not addressing this killing point? I mean really, if the response to this belongs on AIM or in email, so does the original post on this topic.
The response doesn't belong on Aim or in an e-mail, I just thought that the conversation had become more of a "why Styrker is a hypocrite" than a "why the US is going down hill". The response is that I have had an experience that has left me guilt ridden. I wrestled for years and years and one of my last matches left an athlete paralyzed. I know only how that event effected me, and I can only imagine how taking a life would.
I also want to clarify, a moral issue is saying, "I believe killing is wrong." A personal issue is saying, "I believe this war is wrong."
quote: As an aside, this may be immoral and unpatriotic, but I'd much rather be alive than dead. I'm not sure if there is anything I'd fight in a war for. I also don't think I should serve my nation in any way. My family - yes. Nation? No.
Immoral, no. Unpatriotic, maybe.
quote: The men who fought and died for the freedom of this country did so because they had to.
The draft didn't come into play until the civil war.
quote: Considering that you have to hire IT workers from outside since most of your people are dropping out of school, let alone graduating, that should be what you are aiming for - good for you!
Our drop out rate is rather low compared to what it has been in the past
quote: Am I to understand that your argument is that if Americans want to get everything they want from the international community, they need to join the military?
No, my argument is that Americans don't understand the concept of doing something for their country, just to do something for their country. Military service was just the example.
quote: If you can not pay the price of War, then the war is not justified, or at the very least, you have no right to egg other people to join the ranks. It seems weak and selfish.
I will not argue the weak point, but I'd only be selfish if I never did anything for my country. I will do something, Im just still looking for the means by which I'm going to do it (This Americor thing looks interesting).
quote: No Canadian has the right to bash the USA, our friendship with your country makes it unassailable by anyone in the world. You shelter in the palm of our hand. I think that the original post was kind of apologizing. 'beating the drum' instead of 'picking up a sword.'
It was, but I'm a fool to think that I could give an opinion without living my life to the most extreme end of that opinion.
quote: His patriotism is BS huh? Good to know where you stand.
His Patriotism is one of his few redeeming qualities. Now if he'd just learn to tread softly and carry a stick instead of a twig.
quote: Before this goes too much farther... please watch as I move across the room from Bean Counter and Jar Head. Our stances aren't really that similar and I'd hate to be mistaken for an ally of either's trollishly expressed views.
I'm with him...
quote: Still waiting for a explanation of why the US was the greatest in the 20s.
In the 20's, the US was at it's highest point (in my opinion). We had no real international issues, our economy was good, and we'd just proven our militaries abilities in WWI.
Now that i've caught up. I'd like to thank those of you who have discussed on this thread. I probably won't post on it again unless some one directs a question at me. Oh and I'm sorry Quid... Can I have my name back now? Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But now I've read BeanCounter's post and boy was I wrong. Packing my bags and waiting for my green card as I type.
quote: I wrestled for years and years and one of my last matches left an athlete paralyzed. I know only how that event effected me, and I can only imagine how taking a life would.
As you may know I am a wrestler too, one of the best young wrestlers I have ever seen, a young man named Tim Aschrel was on our team, wrestling varsity over another amazing wrestler named Vance Light. The two were within a point in OT in challenge matches. Matches that ended 2-1 after fifteen minutes of wrestling. (119)
Aschrel was one of those cocky pain in the ass wrestlers that makes my arrogance seem humble. But his whole life was the sport. He once jumped out of single leg I had him in, just leaped up over me and out and away, rolled and got up laughing at me. I was caught by surprise or it would never have worked, and I said, "Anybody who has seen you do that will be ready for it." Angry at his taunts I told a friend that "That shit might work in high school but it won't fly in College." My friend agreed but it still stung to get juked by a guy forty pounds lighter!
At Oklahoma Aschrel tried the move on a wrestler who had watched him on tape. Ready, the wrester caught the leg and as Tim tried to tuck his head and roll away, he got stuffed and ended up paralyzed from the neck down. Vance, a slightly less talented wrestler but more solid went on to be the greatest in our school history and now coaches a winning team in Iowa. I think that shows what Tim's arrogance cost him. It was not justice, it was the price of feeling invulnerable. Like driving drunk.
If the guy you wrestled was qualified to be out there then it is certain that unless what you did was illegal (in wrestling terms) then it was likely his fault for zigging when he should have zagged. Do not let the sympathy become guilt. You were nothing more then tree he drove into, or a cliff he jumped off of...
quote: Do you believe that it is possible to serve one's country through actions that do not involve killing other people? If so, which ones?
The United States of America is going to be destroyed in time by one or a combination of two or three natural catastrophes that are inevitable. YellowStone , a Mega Tsunami or the Caldera/Fault system on the West Coast. This is not certainty but very high likelihood. Not this week, but in time...
Things like demographics and population growth make it certain that without global birth control, resource management, and alternative renewable energy sources the window narrows because of social calamity. However narrow or wide, Malthus or nature, the most critical activity of our time is the exploration of space, the engineering, drive, and financing of it for the salvation of the human race and life as we know it.
I feel that the United States is the best country with the will and resources and experience to begin the grind upward to the stars. However we cannot begin to be about the task of saving the human species with buildings falling down around us. I see the task I am doing as clearing the ground as the Japanese would say, preparing the way for the construction that must follow, buying a window of time between storms to allow for conquest of high orbit, lunar mining and an eventual space elevator.
I will contribute by writing about it as I imagine it. In fiction. And by fighting to stabilize Iraq and the region most likely to blow up our work as we try to build a new Tower too Heaven.
What work is worthy? All science is worthy and part of the project, anything that helps the third world slow its birth rate and starvation rate. Anything that encourages space travel, and anything that brings about a time of peace and extends it. Specifically, alternatives to oil, electrical generation with solar, and nuclear and fusion power, new materials and composites, super conductors, AI and robotics.
Remember it is possible that we could solve the whole range of human issues and still we will become extinct or end up back at square one if we do not colonize space. These are not the end times, they are the crux times, when mankind lives or dies by its remaining will and courage.
Mankind has the time Since Toba until Yellowstone to get its butt off this volatile planet to the relatively infinite resources and energy of the solar system. If we start now we can have a hundred million people and thousands of one gee habitats off the planet in a few centuries. Habitats which could in turn reconstruct a disaster torn Earth in the event of a catastrophe.
Those working for these goals and reaching for them are my people, they have my love and admiration, and are engaged in the true work of man in this time.
posted
BC, It was out at freestyle nationals. He started down, I was up, and the whistle blew. He shot up to his feet like you would in folk-style, I caught him, lifted, and suplexed. It was perfectly legal (and for you none wrestlers, it's the most valuable move), but it's considered to be an unethical move by some wrestlers. This is due to the fact that if the other guy comes down too hard, or tilts his head in the wrong way, he ends up as my opponent did. So yes it was legal, but unless trees really do jump at drunk drivers, I can't just write it off...
But I do see your point, i mean by the 3rd day of nationals you've only got the best of the best left...
And as much as I hate to agree with BC, he does kinda have a point, a point that is well said and I tend to agree with...
*moves to the middle of the room*
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: Discussing... well the topic started as a those who really support this country should serve it
Having served in rear support Army, I can tell you without reservation that the country is far better served by someone going to college than by someone going into the military, spending their time basically doing nothing to improve themselves but getting drunk/high and throwing each paycheck away on frivolous bs.
A country is best served by people being the best they can be, and collectively helping the country to be a better country. Unfortunately, the military, the culture of the military, doesn't push people to better themselves in any meaningful way. PT tests are a joke. All the tests I took while in the military to test my competency were a joke. They basically gave you the answers and held any person's hand that couldn't answer a question until they could.
The military is rife with people like me who went in for one thing, but were basically either lied to and caused to go into another MOS, or never get a chance to work in the MOS they're trained in. Saw that a lot in the medical batallion I was in. Only a few slots for soldiers in the hospital to actually perform medicine, so few people could keep up their competencies. Meanwhile, endless days of busy work in the motor pool, yard details, parade and review. I *never* worked in the MOS I was trained in after I got out of that school (AM radio) because the military basically phased out that piece of equipment the year I graduated. Oops!
The military did two things for me: payed me to live in Germany for two years, and gave me the G.I. Bill. It didn't give me the drive to do well in school. It didn't teach me to be kind to my fellow man.
Now, of course, your mileage may vary. I am well aware that combat arms is the better part of the military. I've said so before on this forum. I'm aware that I was in what basically amounts to the non-military portion of the military. However, please don't hold up the military as the only way, or the best way for someone to 'serve' their country. That's just bullshit. The military is just one organ in the body of the country. It is no more or less importan than, say, the legal, education, or spiritual bodies of our country that make our country a great country.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Look. Until America has cleaned up all the garbage in its yard and fixed its own fences it has no right to go to other countries and try to fix theirs. That's all there is to it. We need to sit down and devote ourselves to figuring out how to REALLY make this country shine...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Gee synesthesia, I wish I could meet you, I bet you are a sweet kid!
The Sup is dangerous no doubt, Illegeal in folk style, famous in Greco and Freestyle, in many ways it is the wrestling move. At that level he was in it to win it. It just happened man. Tense instead of relaxed and instead of rolling through for what three? five? and bang. I hope you went on to win, or was that the final match?
I am with you about the Concerns in Germany, hell I was a guard there, of course I am a guardsman, I have a life outside the military. Many of the support groups are simply overworked. Like a civilian job where you work sixteen hour days and get paid minimum wage, I think civilian companies could handle much of it better and cheaper, but hey, I never claimed it was the only game in town, do what you do man, I will do what I do. The tip of the spear is useless without the handle.
There will be no drinking and brawling and such in Iraq. Morally clean and upright is the standard, and never scoff at fitness though what I saw in Germany was pretty funny. (280 running in flack vest trying to lose weight after six months of driving and no PT)
posted
I am in Mattoon IL and if your friends are a bunch of liberal whiners like certain unmentionables around here then I would just steal their dice and leave. BC has me kind of spoiled, I never pay too much attention to all his history and intrigue and background, but when it is gone I miss it. Like the fan I run to help me sleep! Plus he has the best gore and sex in his games as well. He has a gift for it. I quit playing after high school until BC saw my old books and we started a game. Now I am as hooked as I was then!
Oh Well, Sixteen months of boredom and worry. Then game on! I was marreid for four years, I can do sixteen months without D&D easy enough!
Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Dude... don't give away our position like that. Might as well smoke on guard duty, sheesh! Glad I do all that background for nothing, well at least you appreciate the gore, I use the old ICE crit charts as a starting place. E crit!
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no, unfortunately i didn't go on to win, I wrestled 2 more matches and then had to withdraw with several broken ribs and a stress fracture to my spinal column. I took 8th, the first place guy... was from my state though, he and i went back and forth during the hIgh school season. we ended up rotating practices between our two clubs so we could drill. I could have done it... but i was in such bad shape, both physically and mentally, there is no way i could have beaten him on that day... ok, enough wrestling....
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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You cannot be great without the Freestyle, but given the length of the Folkstyle season, it is a hard choice to keep going year round hard on the body. Some of my friends did less strenuous sports in the summer, like Rodeo and Motocross!
I liked swimming and biking. Never did too well at Freestyle. I was usually too hung over after the Friday weigh in parties!
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hmm my hang over usually hit on sunday... I'd got to tournament, win, go home, ice my injuries and drink...
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Wheatpuppet defined jingoism well, no need for me to reiterate that. BC, Jarhead and others, I or others can love America without being blind to her faults. Which you two seem to be, for whatever reasons.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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