posted
Did Captain Kangaroo read that story? I remember that one too, though I don't remember anything else about it except the boy holding the sea in his mouth.
I'm also trying to find the most effective place to give a donation. So ideas from others are greatly appreciated.
The whole problem of responding to natural disasters, early warning, logistics, infrastructure, and rebuiding civilization is of great interest to me. If we (humanity) could get many times more effective at all these things (and it seems as though it would be possible with study and training) then we could save a lot more people and reestablish stable and safe circumstances more quickly when something bad happens. We need to respond to disasters, but also to learn from them things that we don't forget before the next one.
The Red Cross does community outreach programs to train people in various areas like water safety, fire prevention, good nutrition, hygiene, and around here tornado preparedness. I wonder if a course on how to respond to larger scale disasters would help? Like what to do if people are looting, how to treat water to make it safer to drink, what to do if your plumbing quits working, etc. I suppose it would have to be tailored to the locale, with different information for urban vs. rural people, and coastal dwellers vs. inland, cold vs. warm climate, etc. But it might be worthwhile.
If even one person knows what to do in an emergency, others will follow their lead and a lot of good can result.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I was talking to people here about the receding waters preceding a tidal wave. I know about it in part because of the movies I watch and books I read, but also part of it was high school physics - wave theory. I'm a geek and I remember it. If I'd been on the beach and saw the water receding, I would have started screaming immediately to run for your lives. Because I know that it means big big trouble.
Anton, our district president at church, is a very educated man. He's a medical doctor with all sorts of specializations. He'd never heard that before. Neither had anyone else.
Instead of running, when the people on the beach saw the water recede, they went onto the wet sand to pick up fish and seashells and that sort of thing. And so, when the wave came back, they were ripe for a picking.
Yes, education can make a huge amount of difference. If they had known about receding water, only a fraction would have died.
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posted
I listened with great interest to a noon-time news report that very few animals (non-domestic) died in this disaster. They sensed the coming tsunami and fled to higher ground. There are very few animal corpses being found...
(I'm supposing dometicated ones that did not have the freedom to flee were lost, however...)
posted
In this case it seems like a major thing we might have done is early warning. If people had known even an hour or two ahead, I'm sure it would have saved a lot of lives.
But how to warn people with no communications infrastructure of impending disasters? I can think of 2 possibilities off the top of my head, neither of which may be practical.
1) Some sort of alert program on the internet. Then those with web access could alert local warning systems in affected areas. Coverage here would be an issue. Would it reach enough people to make a real difference?
2) What if all satellites had some sort of emergency warning beacon light of some kind. Could it possibly be bright enough to be noticeable on the ground? But like if you looked up into the night sky and saw several satellites blinking an emergency code (three flashes then a pause?), maybe it could be a signal to find out what's going on?
Okay, that idea doesn't work if it's cloudy, and probably isn't feasible during the day, since the energy required to flash that brightly might be prohibitive. But satellites are the only thing that covers the whole earth that I can think of.
What else would work?
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posted
Again, with your suggestion, ak, it would still come down to an education of the people.
Just like here in Kansas -- when we have someone new to the state just move in and we are outside in late spring on a muggy day and the sirens go off -- they say, 'why are the sirens going off?" and we have to tell them "that means there is a tornado nearby and we must seek shelter"
So whatever warning system they put in place (which I hear they are now working on) would also require a mass education of the people.
quote:What if all satellites had some sort of emergency warning beacon light of some kind. Could it possibly be bright enough to be noticeable on the ground? But like if you looked up into the night sky and saw several satellites blinking an emergency code (three flashes then a pause?), maybe it could be a signal to find out what's going on?
Okay, that idea doesn't work if it's cloudy, and probably isn't feasible during the day, since the energy required to flash that brightly might be prohibitive. But satellites are the only thing that covers the whole earth that I can think of.
Durring the day this would be I'm sad to say, infeasible. The Iriduim system was basically just a series of very, very large mirrors in space. And everyonce in a while they would line up with the sun so as to create a very concentrated flare in the sky, more than visible from the ground. They're bright enough that should it occur durring the day a slight light would be visible, but not enough that you'd look up, and then it's only for a moment, plus durring the day the geometry of the thing is just too difficult. And anything that used it's own power to create the light would be out of fuel in a hurry, and even then only very concentrated beams would be so much as visible, and probably creating something that would make people take notice would be impossible minus large explosions in sapce, and no one is going to launch that into space unless it's on the tip of a missle headed for the US.
I think a better solution might be warning beacons on the beach at a certain distance. Notification could be given out hours in advance, and people could run and tell others in plenty of time, so a massive systems of beacons wouldn't be necessary, though it would probably still be prohibitivley expensive for a third world nation. It would have to a solar powered beacon that could emit loud sounds (more noticable than ligh and cheaper energy-wise). Basically the kind of warning system we have in place here in case tornados or other disasters, only I think that smaller, more frequent beacons would be much more effective. There would be a one time instellation cost, plus the cost of maitance, which would be low if they did use solar power and radio communication.
posted
Our tornado sirens are tested at 1:00 pm the first Wednesday of every month. So if you move to the state and don't know what it is, the first Wednesday afternoon that you're there you are going to hear very loud sirens going off repeatedly and ask someone what the heck is going on. So unless you manage to move in the second week of the month and there's a tornado right away, everybody knows what the sirens are for.
Something like that at least makes sure people are aware of what is being signaled. Unfortunately, it wouldn't do much good for a generic emergency, since you can't indicate what is going on and what steps should be taken. Sirens in MN during tornado season mean "go to the basement." If going to the basement would be harmful in a particular situation, they can't blow the sirens.
If sirens just meant "Something is going on, get to a radio and turn to the emergency frequency" that could be useful in a wide variety of situations. Something like that could work for third-world countries... where there is reliable electricity to blow the sirens.
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posted
Here, when there are going to be scheduled water or power cuts, or dengue fever alerts, or that sort of thing, vans with loudpseakers drive around the neighborhood telling everyone what's going on. We also sometimes have trishaws and guys on bicycles or motorbikes - all with loudspeaker systems - riding around neighborhoods saying stuff.
That actually works very well here, it's feasable, it's relatively inexpensive, can be quick enough to deploy, and it's not specific to any one type of problem.
However. The announcements are generally in Sinhalese only, or Tamil only, depending on the area. So the Burghers and the foreigners would be left clueless. On the other hand, if it's out in public at the beach where this sort of announcement is being made, there will likely be at least one person who can translate - and they do!
This would work. More than that, this would work very well.
The problem, from what I understand, is that no one in the US - who knew that the disaster was coming - had any idea who to contact in our governments. There was no protocol set up. And even if they had, there was no system set up here like a phone tree to contact necessary people. But this can be rectified without a lot of work at our end.
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Yesterday I was thinking about the Five Chinese Brothers. I grew up on that story. I wondered if the story got it's beginnings after and ancient tsunami where the survivors told of receding waters followed by death of all lured out by them.
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I decided to give to the church humanitarian aid fund here. A worldwide network of volunteers (like quidscribis) insure that 100% of all donations go to those in need.
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The church humanitarian people arrive either today or yesterday evening.
As a side note, my counsellor called this morning to say that she can teach the lesson after all. She'd like to teach about charity and helping others. She's a local sister, so this is the best possible solution.
I'm proud of my counsellor. She's taking responsibility for teaching a very difficult lesson on a very difficult Sunday. They will listen to her more than they'll listen to me, which is part of the reason I'm so grateful that she's willing to do this. And I'm still buying a large box of Kleenex for Relief Society!
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posted
Nope. But we didn't feel the initial one, either, so it's not that surprising.
I mention the aftershocks mostly because they're mostly occuring in the Andamans and Nicobar islands, where there are still 25,000 or more people missing or unaccounted for. And they're being potentially wrecked even more than they were initially.
It also means more tsunamis, although much less severe than the originals.
And we're told that the aftershocks are likely to continue for weeks and months.
posted
I asked because I was telling my sister about you being near the tragedy and she was wondering if you could feel the initial quake. I told her I didn't think so.
Those aftershocks are bigger than the average initial earthquake!
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Great. Indonesia. 79,900 + Sri Lanka. 24,000 + India. 10,000 +
16,000 estimated still missing.
INDONESIA. Bodies still lying decomposing on the streets. Many people still living on the streets.
Everything completely flattened in the city at the epicentre of the earthquake, previous population of 50,000. No signs of life.
Region that was home to hundreds of thousands almost completely wiped off the face of the earth.
Too remote to get a broad picture quickly.
Most important priority: clean water.
Focus is on the living. The dead can't be helped anyway.
SRI LANKA. 3000 people crowded into a Buddhist temple, a pile of donated clothing sitting in the center, given to people who have literally nothing left. Many husbands and fathers still missing. Just never came home.
East coast - probably has more dead proportionately than anywhere else in the country. The force of the tsunami bent ceiling fan blades. Land wiped clean. Getting information from the east coast has been extremely difficult. Rubble is everywhere, piles and piles of it.
Many survivors are living in camps - very close quarters, and many have not yet seen doctors.
The president of Sri Lanka has announced that the government will help rebuild their homes, but away from the sea. My question - with what land? This country is crowded. It will be difficult to find land.
Galle. Huge devastation. Thousands of people have lost everything - all their families, all their possessions. Decomposing bodies are still found everywhere, and they're smelling. Looters steal everything they can find.
Buddhist temples are now orphanages. Where else can the children go?
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posted
When you list the number for Indonesia -- does that include Sumatra? Since I know that was where the brunt of the quake itself was... and I never hear a separate figure for Sumatra.. FG
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quote:Our tornado sirens are tested at 1:00 pm the first Wednesday of every month.
Only once a month? Heh. Here where I live, we have a siren mounted on the main water tower that is used to summon the local volunteer firefighters when they are needed. They test it every Monday through Friday at noon - in fact, it's known as the "noon whistle". And God help you if you happen to be driving by the water tower (or happen to be having lunch at Jack in the Box, which is right next to the water tower) at noon. That thing is loud .
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posted
Yes, that number includes Sumatra. But there are still tens of thousands missing and unaccounted for.
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Dag...Farmgirl is absolutely correct. If there is an actual emergency, the siren just keeps on going until everyone has either come in or called in that they are on their way. At noon, it just winds up and then winds down. So, it would only take the concerned parties maybe fifteen seconds to know that it was not just a test.
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I worry about the people who inhabited islands! All the people that must be stranded and no one can spare the resources to reach them.
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Thanks for the info on alarms. Noon-whistles seem rustic to me, mainly because I've really only encountered them in small towns in stories (such as "God Bless You Mr. Rosewater).
The Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, VA used to fire a long gun every night at 5:00 PM. Closest I know about such things.
Wouldn't the constant noise make it difficult to coordinate a response?
posted
What's the latest number of total people killed? And where's a good place to keep updated on this story?
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posted
Well, Dag, the town where I live (near Fresno, CA) is still fairly small as towns go - I think about 18,000 population, although they've been putting in a lot of new houses the past two or three years - and still mostly a farming town.
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posted
126,000 and counting. Some news sources are saying there may be as many as 400,000 dead in Indonesia alone. So the total dead may be up to half a million. But we won't know for sure for quite a while.
posted
We have electricity, we have phones most of the time even (although they've been frequently overloaded over the last few days, so it's been difficult to get through), we have cellular, television shows are still on. Seriously, for the most part, it's business as usual where I am.
Electricity is generated through damns, and as long as we have rain or sufficient water left over from previous rains, we have electricity. It's monsoon season. It's not a problem.
We went grocery shopping today. The store was much much busier than normal - as in, at least twice, probably closer to 3 times as many people in it. We usually go around 4 in the afternoon, and it was packed.
The good news is that there were no shortages, except for the usual ones. By that, I mean that this week, the red onions will be really small and so will the potatoes, but the carrots were extremely fresh, as was the cilantro, which is usually difficult to get. Next week, there might be no bran cereal or oranges. The week after, we'll have really fresh onions, but the bananas will look bruised. It's a rotating thing.
But there was no problem getting enough food. The grocery store was stocked as per usual.
It's also possible that at least some of these people are buying food to donate, whether through an aid agency or by donating directly to homeless people staying at a Buddhist temple, for example. A lot of people have taken it upon themselves to buy food or gather clothing or other household items and donate to whoever. That's been happening here A LOT. Quite a few people I talked to from church have done that, some through our church, others privately.
Honestly, I don't care how they do it. I'm just glad they did it.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Well, so far the American people as individuals and companies have donated more than the American gevernment. It costs a couple of billion dollars a day to be in Iraq, and we have donated 35 million. There is a lot of talk about this on the news. Maybe this is just an initial donation?
We are supposed to feel relieved, though, because Jeb bush is going over with George W. to help, and he knows disasters! (sorry for bitter tone, but I think we could do more, and I hope we do)
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quote: The larger picture Egeland fails to appreciate is that America's wealth and prosperity - partly sustained by low taxes - is a greater bulwark against human suffering than the United Nations ever has been or likely will be. America guarantees global stability by keeping the sea lanes open, by preventing North Korea from invading South Korea and China from seizing Taiwan. We did it by preventing Saddam from keeping Kuwait. We ignored the United Nations and intervened to stop genocide in Yugoslavia, and we have 150,000 troops in Iraq working to create a democracy - while the United Nations is still too scared of terrorists, and too anti-American, to help.
"CRAWFORD, Texas - The United States is pledging $350 million to help tsunami victims, a tenfold increase over its first wave of aid, President Bush (news - web sites) announced Friday Bush also is sending Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) to areas ravaged by earthquake and tsunami to assess what more the United States needs to do. The president's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, will travel with him. The newly announced aid came after some critics claimed that the initial U.S. contribution of $35 million was meager considering the vast wealth of the nation."
Esit: Good point that we send a lot of people/resources, which are not counted in that amount. That makes me feel better. The Iraq example does not work for me, though.
[ December 31, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
So, when the government donates the hard cash, where does it go? I am NOT saying we don't help enough in crises, I know we are amazing at that. But how does the other help fit in? And is the American Red Cross a separate financial entity, or is it funded by the government?
I also think it is GOOD that the private donations are flodding in, don;t get me wrong. That initial donation of 35 million just seemed pathetic.
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Usually, at any major events, you can hear firecrackers going off for hours. During Poya days (full moon days - major important to Buddhists), during any holidays of any kind, and quite frequently, for no reason that I can fathom. Sometimes it's just random.
But last night, New Years Eve, there were no firecrackers going off. Not a single one. And for this country, for a major holiday, this is extremely unusual. Just another sign of how sober the entire country is right now.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:We have 150,000 troops in Iraq working to create a democracy - while the United Nations is still too scared of terrorists, and too anti-American, to help
AvidReader, Since the majority of people in the world and a sizeable fraction of the people on this board consider the US' unproked invasion of Iraq to be the opposite of humanitarian -- I suggest you leave that little example for when you are preaching to the choir. In an unconverted audience it has the tendency to weigh against your point rather than in favor.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:And the fact that it does is probably the point being made - that a whole host of humanitarian projects aren't recognized as such.
Or perhaps that a whole bunch of things which were never humanitarian projects are claimed as such.
As I said before, this is a bad example unless your preaching to the choir. The conclusions one draws will be based on ones perceptions of the justness of the Iraq war. Since those perceptions vary widely, so will peoples conclusions. As a Lawyer you should no enough about persuasion to know that. If you don't, I hope my opponent hires you if I'm ever brought to court.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Rabbit, your comments this evening have seemed very malicious. (forgive me if you didn't mean to come across that way, I know it's hard to interpret the tone of voice behind the text.)
You know a lot and I'm interested in seeing what you have to say, but I think I'd be more willing to read your comments if you would keep the personal jabs out of them.
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And anything that used it's own power to create the light would be out of fuel in a hurry, and even then only very concentrated beams would be so much as visible, and probably creating something that would make people take notice would be impossible minus large explosions in sapce, and no one is going to launch that into space unless it's on the tip of a missle headed for the US.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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