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Ok, just watched Serenity for the very first time. Ever. (My shiny new DVDs came with the mailman today.) After glancing over the recent posts (don't worry, I don't know anything else) I will say that the Kaylee dead scene worked for me. See, I guess I cheated. I knew she wouldn't be killed off. She's in the opening credits. She's on the cover of the DVDs. So I didn't even THINK about it when her hand dropped. So to me, I already got the joke when he told Simon she was dead. And it was even funnier when it cut to all of them laughing about it.
But that's just me.
I really like it. There's enough action, but not too much. I'm interested to find out more about River, and I've already made snap judgements about characters that I like and don't like as well. This all could change, and that's what's cool. I love Wash and Zoe.
I'm going to watch an episode every couple days to spread it out, but I think I'm surely hooked. (The only thing that's bugged me is the gratuitous 'hooker' shots, and the sponge bath montage. ) But I'm loving it.
I'll have to keep you all updated on my watching, like Teshi did. And then, once I've seen it all, I need to go read all the Firefly threads.
posted
Well Earendil18, you certainly aren't alone--I'm surprised to find so many people here agreeing with me about the episode. Usually, when The Message comes up, people seem to rave about it. Twinky, for example, counts it among his three favorite episodes, I believe (the other two being Heart of Gold and Objects in Space). Rather than telling us to watch it again, why don't you tell us what you found in the episode?
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Narnia, in my mind the 'hooker' shots aren't gratuitous. Firefly very intentionally goes against a number of established television conventions in general, and those established in Star Trek in particular, going for a gritty realism that doesn't exist in the Star Trek universe (certain episodes of DS9 excepted).
For example, on the Enterpirse no one seems to pee--you never even see characters walking past a marked bathroom or anything. In Firefly, one of the earlier shots of Mal is of him buttoning up and folding his toilet back into the wall. Star Trek has a history of having characters who function as objects of sexual desire who are nonetheless almost completely chaste. If Star Trek's "sexy women" do have sex, its a very big deal. In Firefly, the first shot of the "sexy woman" character is of her...well...having sex. For money. I think it was a very deliberate move on Joss's part to introduce her that way.
I could make an argument for the sponge bath showing something about the presciousness of water on the ship or something, but honestly that scene has always struck me as being gratuitous too.
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So now tell me, how often does it show her bathing throughout the series? Just so I'm warned. (Just kidding. I'll live through it I suppose. )
I actually did notice that scene in the toilet with Mal and it was very striking. At first it was "Gee thanks for showing me that" and then I found myself noticing the bathroom fixtures and the relative 'normalness' of the lime buildup. It did serve to make the whole setting more realistic for me.
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Rather than telling us to watch it again, why don't you tell us what you found in the episode?
Wasn't sure who'd listen really... The last two miniessays ended the threads they were posted in, or were not acknowledged period.
The main thing that got to me was just the very "human" element that was Tracy. Blame it on his upbringing, his environment, his principles...whatever, the guy just didn't seem to make good decisions for himself. As Mal said in the episode he was stupid "in every way possible".
They say "ignorance is bliss" but not in Tracy's case. His ignorance and lack of experience ultimately cost him his very life.
I just found that very sad.
Humans make mistakes all the time it's how we learn. So why did Tracy have to die for making his? Is it merely because he didn't know better or he just never took the lessons to heart? I don't know.
Did Mal have a plan that would allow Tracy to safely get rid of those "Feds"? We never find out but I believe he did. However, because of a lack of good judgement and communication, Tracy doesn't find out until after it's too late.
And that's sad too.
How often have miscommunicated intentions been the source of damage in relationships between humans? Plenty, I think.
But even after endangering everybody on the ship, shooting the pilot, and attempting to take Kaylee hostage...Mal and Zoe are right there to be with him while he dies. They forgive him and bring him back to his family.
Just makes me shake my head and say "what a shame that had to go that way."
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Ok, just watched The Train Job last night. I loved it! I feel like the series is starting to get more comfortable for me. It was a relief to have Mal acting a little more relaxed and I really appreciated the funny in this episode. Some favorite lines:
"We tried to get him to the infirmary but he was just....heavy."
"I was aiming for his head!"
And then the line Wash says to get them out of the bar brawl at the beginning. I love Wash (have I mentioned that?) I'm excited for them to focus on him some more.
I love the fights in this series because people get hurt! No one is immune (and I can see what Chris means about the movie being terrifying in this way) and they used their medic 3 times in this one episode. Very cool. Speaking of the medic, I love him to pieces.
Jayne's state of independence and "look out for #1" is scary for me. It makes me nervous, makes me tense, and I worry about what will happen in future situations if the captain's in trouble. I still can't see if there's any loyalty at all, and if there is, where exactly it lies. This adds such a funky dynamic to their crew that it makes it even more interesting....not to mention the fact that he's willing to sell River for money.
River is just short of annoying. I think her acting is the weakest of the lot, but that's understandable because she's also the youngest. I think I'll get to like her better if they focus on her some more. It was good to learn more about the society during this episode: Registered companions are very respected folks.
My sister made an observation after Mal and Zoe returned the stolen goods to the town. She said "This isn't the right way of life for him." I thought about that and wondered about it. Mal has a heart, a brain, and morals. He cares about other people (as does most of the rest of the crew). He's taken on two fugitives, endagered them all by returning stolen goods and killing a thug...and I'm sure there will be more. He's a nice guy. Very interesting.
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I tend to watch The Message for the funny, more than for the plot.
"My food is problematic" is the single most used firefly quote in my vocabulary.
The whole opening scene, actually, with Jayne and the hat, and Kaylee and Simon. I really like Tracy's half-drunken slur, like he's a little taken by surprise by everything.
quote:And then the line Wash says to get them out of the bar brawl at the beginning. I love Wash (have I mentioned that?) I'm excited for them to focus on him some more.
You get to see a lot more of Wash. He's my favorite character, I think.
Part of the reason I love the series is the insane amount of detail put into everything. The fold-out bathroom in Mal's room and the chinese characters on the wall. The pots and dishes, cubbies and cabinets, as well as the floral patterns on the walls of the galley are amazing. Every location on the ship and off is exquisitely detailed. Even the fact that there are no sound effects in the vacuum goes a long way with me.
I'm of the opinion that Firefly is the best science fiction ever to grace television, bar none.
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I think most people on this thread agree with you about that last statement.
I don't think I would ever say that, just because the Scifi series that I have enjoyed are all so different from each other. I really can't compare them. You can't make me. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Wash is definitely the one character that I can identify with, just as Xander was in Buffy.
Perhaps that's why I've never been able to get into Angel as much -- there was nobody that I ever identified with.
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quote:Originally posted by Narnia: I think her acting is the weakest of the lot, but that's understandable because she's also the youngest.
Not to be nit-picky, but I'm going to nit-pick: According to IMDB, Jewel Staite (Kaylee) is roughly 11 months her junior.
Once you get into the character's backstory, you'll probably feel differently about her as well. <spoiler> We learn in "Ariel" that, among other brain alterations, the part of her brain that allows her to ignore/filter emotions has been completely stripped. </spoiler>
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Yeah, originally I thought the same thing about Summer's (River's- they all have such names) acting. But I think as the story progresses, she gets better and more into her role. As we learn more about her, we also allow her more leeway, actingwise. Also, she's not an actress but a ballet dancer.
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Yay! Been watching, and I have some more thoughts.
Hey guess what? I love this show.
Bushwhacked -
I think I get to love Simon more and more and more. I love how he's so delightfully in character that I can see him loosening up little by little every episode. I was terrified for he and River and I yelped when I saw where they had put them to hide. Perfect. I've been pervertedly wondering what the Reavers look like...and it was even worse than I thought. ugh. And he wasn't even a full blown Reaver yet.
I also adore the Captain. I love that no matter what happens, he's unfailingly calm and cocky. I usually hate that in a character, but in him, I find it calming and exciting. I wonder "Is he just covering up anxiety really really well, or is he really just feeling ok about his ship being taken away from him and auctioned off?" I'm glad he thinks on his feet (even when he's handcuffed).
I giggled at Wash's description of his wife: "Where her legs meet her back...and above that." "Have you ever been with a warrior woman?"
Shindig -
I haven't seen this episode in people's lists of their favorites, but I have to say that I LOVED it. I guess there wasn't much action and it was kind of a silly episode in places, but it had a lot of things that make me thrill to my toes.
The conversation between Mal and Inara in his room when she's teaching him how to fight. When he looks at the floor and says "Don't stay." I can tell they have a history and I'm extremely curious to see what it is. I haven't been overly fond of her throughout the series, but I can tell that she means a lot to our lovely captain. I think it's in the scenes with her that we see what a good actor Fillion is. OSC talks about his characters 'orienting themselves around' someone they love, making that person their center of gravity. I can see that in Mal when he's near Inara. It could be my imagination, but I think it's wonderful.
Kaylee's conversation with all the men at the party was a high point for me. It made me happy to see her appreciated for who and what she is, even with a terrible dress on. I thought it was great that they showed that she could get her feelings hurt, and even by our dear captain. It wasn't just the two characters that were involved that struck me, but just the reality of stupid snide comments and how often they are NOT in our favorite TV series' (unless they're stupid sitcoms).
We've counted and Mal punches someone in every episode. He's killed someone in every episode but Shindig, and yet, in every episode he's done something that shows he's a softie.
Serenity - Takes on Simon and River Train Job - Gives the medicine back to the town. Keeps Simon and River. Bushwhacked - Lets them have the funeral, hides Simon and River. Shindig - Punches out a guy for Inara, sword fights a guy for Inara, buys Kaylee a froofy dress, asks Inara to stay, doesn't kill the guy at the end of the fight...
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Narnia, I'm getting a huge kick out of your reactions to each episode, even though I've seen them all at least half a dozen times each. It's like reacting to each show all over again. Keep it up!
I *love* "Shindig," and the writer of that episode, Jane Espenson (who did some great work on "Buffy" as well).
"Mercy is the mark of a great man... *stab!* Guess I'm just a good man. *stab!* Eh, I'm all right." -Proof that Mal rules
Edit: *MILDLY SPOILERY STUFF BELOW*
. . . .
Regarding River: as I say to most of the people I've introduced to the show... give River time. A lot of her character comes out through her interactions with the crew and the ship, so it takes a little while to get past the immediate impression of "weird psycho telepath girl." I also found the commentary for "Objects in Space" to be very illuminating about River (especially in light of the events of that episode).
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Bit of a spoiler there in your description of River, Tarrsk. Might be a good idea to take it out, for Narnia's sake.
Narnia, Shindig is a fantastic episodes; when I first saw it I'd have counted it among my favorites too, but there's just so much great stuff ahead of you that it is somewhat eclipsed.
I don't agree with you about Mal's motivation for having the funeral in Bushwacked; I take him at his word when he says that it's basically something to distract most of the crew and keep them occupied while Kaylee dismantles the trap.
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Done. Narnia, just FYI, I did write my description of River to be as vague as possible, so if you only consider actual plot points to be spoilers, the stuff I wrote is safe.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Also for those who HAVE seen all the episodes, there is an absolutely side splitting gag-reel that you can download from FireflyFans.net. Just google it.
Mind you it is NOT the gagreel that is on the DVD, but a much lengthier 12 minute version with lots of gags.
For some reason they didn't put all that on the DVD set.
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My favorite part of that gag reel is Wash in the interrogation room. he just goes on and on. It's hilarious. I figure they must have just sat him on set and let him improv.
This was the least engaging episode (so far) for me, but there was still a lot to love about it. I greatly enjoy the shots that the directors choose to use of Simon as he watches River enjoy things (like open space, dancing, speaking with a cockney accent). I also love that Simon is a good Dr. and that even though he'd been abducted, he got right to work. The scene with the berries was one of the most beautiful scenes that's ever been on television. Really. This look into how much he's given up and River's promises to get better...I got all choked up.
The lines at the end were so choice. "Looks like we arrived in the nick of time. What does that make us?" "Big Damn Heroes Sir." "Ain't we just?"
"The girl's a witch." "Yeah. But she's our witch and we're taking her back."
We just about died laughing. here's another example of the captain and his sweet disposition. They came back. (And Noemon, we continue to disagree about Mal's motivation for the funeral in Bushwhacked. He's resourceful and found a way to make it useful, but it seemed to me that he cared about how much it mattered to Book...and that he may have even hoped a little that there was some peace to be had after an attack like that.)
Our Mrs. Reynolds -
Fantastic. So funny, we laughed ourselves silly. I loved the scene with Saffron and Inara and the closing line of the episode was very choice. Do Inara and Mal EVER actually talk to each other in this series? We need to have a serious talk about their relationship.
Oh!! And "This is my very favorite gun" almost killed me I was laughing so hard. I've gotten over my twitchy Jayne-inspired discomfort. I can see that he is loyal to the captain and even the rest of the crew. Is that just the writers getting more comfortable with the character as time goes on? He most definitely didn't start out to be the comic relief. But now he very much is.
Best line of this episode: "But she was naked, and all....articulate." (complete with hand motions.)
Jaynestown -
Ok, so Safe is better than this one. My least favorite so far and I'm not sure why. But I really really want them to get Simon drunk some more so we can see what else will happen. We're all (including the crew) rooting for Kaylee on this one, but I'm glad she doesn't melt and get all sappy. I'm glad she calls him on his prejudices and I'm glad they actually had a talk. I think this is one of the first times that Simon's actually talked with anyone but River. I like it, he's becoming more 'real' to all of them.
Same thing goes for River. I'm glad she's talking more. I loved when Book said "Faith fixes us" or something like that. It reminded me of when River told Simon "You gave up everything to save me and you found me broken." I wonder if anyone else made the connection? I wonder if River does?
Out of Gas-
Man, it sucked to see the captain in such bad shape. I almost died when he dropped the part into the engine and had to bend down to get it. The sympathy was painful. I'm such a sap. I KNEW he was going to pass out before he reached that shiny red button. !!!
I've seen this episode grace many of your favorites lists and I can understand why. I don't know that it's one of my favorites yet, but I did love to see how the relationships began. I didn't buy the Inara/Mal story. I'm itching to see their backstory and I'm not getting it! And now I have to go back and read Chris' transcript of Wash and Zoe's wedding. Example #428 of Mal being a teddy bear: he talked to Kaylee like he was her dad all the way through the episode. I loved it. I love the way he takes care of her. I wish I could see some behind the scenes about the journey of the cast up to the making of this episode. It seems like they've hit a comfy place in their chemistry with each other and it just crackles on screen. I love it. (I don't remember which episode it was...Safe? When Mal grabbed Kaylee and kissed her on the head? I just melted. It's great.) That's part of what draws me to a good show, when I can see that the cast loves each other in real life.
We only planned to watch the rest of disk 2 for the weekend. We've started watching 2 a night instead, so I'm doomed. *shrug* What do you do?
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My favorite gag reel moment is from the shooting of "The Message":
*AGAIN, SPOILERS BELOW*
. . .
The crew is gathered around Tracey's crate (coffin?), doing the mournful face thing, as the camera slowly pans to each of them in turn, starting with Nathan Fillion. However, once the camera leaves Nathan, he sneaks around and quietly stands beside the next set of crewmembers as the camera reaches them... and the next... and the next... all the while keeping a hysterically deadpan experience on his face. At the very end, the camera pans down to the open crate, revealing Nathan lying inside, being embraced by Tracey!
*END SPOILERS*
Narnia: Jaynestown works best if you view it as a combined character study of Jayne and a commentary on religion. It's actually much less comedic than most Firefly episodes (although there are still some side-splittingly funny moments). The episode brilliantly presents two views of religion: Book's perspective, in which faith is a source of healing and comfort, and the hero worship of the Canton mudders for Jayne, in which the symbol placed on the pedestal exists to give hope to the hopeless, rather than reflecting reality. The dialogue between Mal and Jayne at the end sums up the latter perspective succinctly.
Plus, the episode features the "Man They Call Jayne" song! When you get to disc 4, make sure to check out the easter egg of Adam Baldwin singing the song, complete with the line "The hero of Canton, the man they call... MEEEE!"
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quote: I didn't buy the Inara/Mal story. I'm itching to see their backstory and I'm not getting it!
I think the point is that they don't have one. The thing that may or may not exist between them is developing slowly.
Yes, The Message is one of my favourites, pretty much entirely for the last scene and the accompanying music.
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Hmmmmmmm. I watched Bushwhacked last weekend, actually, and I was thinking about that when it happened. I'm not sure. I think maybe it was one part being nice to Book, one part wanting to throw Inara for a loop, and two parts diversion.
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I agree with you on that, Noemon. I am re-watching the series right now, and in the first three (including trailer) episodes, Mal is pretty antagonistic against God "You're welcome on my boat, preacher. God ain't."
I didn't remember why he was doing it, but when Mal said "I don't know if there's peace to be had, but if there is, these folk deserve some of it," it stuck out like a sore thumb. It totally didn't make sense that the guy that just said that God ain't welcome on his boat would say that. When he explained why he was doing it (distraction), it made total sense.
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I took throwing Inara for a loop as something he was happy to have done, and he was definitely fine with letting her interpretation of his actions stand, but I took that as being pretty secondary to keeping his crew and passengers from freaking out while a solution to a problem was worked out. I saw it as being an example of his being a good captain, in much the same way as I saw his different approaches to handling different crew members as evidence of his being a good captain (for example, taking a more fatherly tack with Kaylee, alpha male dominance displays with Jayne, that kind of thing).
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Exactly Porter. I think I acutally said "huh." the first time I heard him say the "if there's peace to be had" line, and "ohhh, okay" when he explained his motivation.
Edit--Pre-Serenity Valley Mal would have wanted the service for the "peace to be had" reasons, but post-Serenity Valley Mal wouldn't have, not that early in the character's story-arc.
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Sure. Which is why it's so interesting that Early deals with Book in the same way he deals with Mal.
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quote:I saw it as being an example of his being a good captain
Exactly!
And then you can contrast that with the times that he's not such a good captain, like when he tells Kaylee that she'd be like a sheep walking around on it's hind legs in that frippery of a dress. >.<
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I hadn't thought about it before, but it seems to me that when Mal makes his comment about Kaylee in the dress, he's in the roll of a group of friends engaging in banter (he's the dominant one in that group too, of course, but in what group wouldn't Mal be dominant? He's kind of like Slash in that respect), rather than being in the roll of Captain. He is a very good captain, but isn't as good at being a friend.
Well, I'm not sure if I believe that or not, but it occurred to me.
Twink, I agree that there is a reason why Early deals with Book and Mal in the same way, but I'm not quite sure what the antecedant of "which" is in your sentence. What were you responding to there?
[Edit--or I could have just said it in one short sentence, the way twinky just did]
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Perhaps Early, who Joss describes as being so empathetic as to be almost telepathic, is also some sort of captain?
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That's an interesting thought blacwolve. Makes me want to write an essay about personal excellence in the Firefly universe.
Oh, and I suppose that the Alliance is all about taking a single approach to everyone, which is the opposite of Mal's approach to leadership.
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quote:Pre-Serenity Valley Mal would have wanted the service for the "peace to be had" reasons, but post-Serenity Valley Mal wouldn't have, not that early in the character's story-arc.
And to my mind at least, hopefully never in the story-arc. It is my sincere and earnest hope that Mal not convert back to religion, ever. I would be sad if he did.
quote:Twink, I agree that there is a reason why Early deals with Book and Mal in the same way, but I'm not quite sure what the antecedant of "which" is in your sentence. What were you responding to there?
Book purports to be a nice man, wanting to do last rites for the dead, babysitting River, trying to explain faith to her, et cetera, but he knows an awful lot about very bad things. He could be (I can only assume "has been") as dominant as Mal if he chose to. Early is somehow aware of that.
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quote:And to my mind at least, hopefully never in the story-arc. It is my sincere and earnest hope that Mal not convert back to religion, ever. I would be sad if he did.
Of course. Mal is so freaking awesome that everybody wants him on their team. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:I think they've set him up to be redeemed by love, not faith.
That's not too surprising. I don't recall ever seeing faith portrayed as a redeeming value in any of Joss' stuff.
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