quote: Yup. The real name is oxytocin; Pitocin and Syntocin are brand names. (So is Syntocinon.)
Oh, see I always thought that oxytocin was the real, human-made deal and that pitocin was just the pharmaceutical knock-off. I assumed syntocin was the Aussie way of saying it.
ETA: Oh, I get it. We're saying the same thing. Oh, and for the record, if you don't get an IV when you deliver in the hospital, they give you a ginormous, horse-sized shot of pitocin in the thigh afterward. Like, for fun.
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For fun, or because your uterus was not contracting to their liking?
I got pitocin during labor but also got it after the 2nd and 3rd times to prevent me from, you know, bleeding to death (along with uterine massage) if my uterus didn't contract.
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quote: Yup. The real name is oxytocin; Pitocin and Syntocin are brand names. (So is Syntocinon.)
Oh, see I always thought that oxytocin was the real, human-made deal and that pitocin was just the pharmaceutical knock-off. I assumed syntocin was the Aussie way of saying it.
ETA: Oh, I get it. We're saying the same thing. Oh, and for the record, if you don't get an IV when you deliver in the hospital, they give you a ginormous, horse-sized shot of pitocin in the thigh afterward. Like, for fun.
Oxytocin is oxytocin, whether it was made it your hypothalmus or a lab. Except in the first case, no one slaps a label on a vial of it saying "Pitocin" or "generic oxytocin" or whatever.
And most women do not need oxytocin post delivery unless they are not expelling the afterbirth properly, are bleeding excessively, or have a history of either of the above. (I have a history of the second, and oxytocin isn't much fun through an IV either. )
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Crazy biochemist side of me coming out- proteins made in the lab in a different organism then they originally are often labelled recombinant among scientist. While the amino acids are identical, there can be additional modifications which E. coli (for example) is not capable of making. Sometimes it matters, other times it doesn't, but native or recombinant is always indicated in the literature.
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Since oxytocin is a very small peptide (wikipedia says nine amino acids long) with very little secondary structure, I doubt that's an issue.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Since oxytocin is a very small peptide (wikipedia says nine amino acids long) with very little secondary structure, I doubt that's an issue.
But if I did an experiment with it and published a paper, I would still list where the peptide came from. Like I said, me being very nitpicky.
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I would hope you would. And not just whether it was synthetic, but the exact source. That's not because you expect differences; that because all potential variables must be listed in a legitimate scientific paper.
Enough people are convinced that "natural" = healthy, safer, etc. that I think it is important to point out that a synthetic compound is often completely indistinguishable from the natural one. If you took an unlabeled sample of natural oxytocin and one from your favorite lab, would you expect to be able to distinguish them in a mass spectrometer? Under an electron microscope?
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When I worked in a dairy, we gave oxytocin shots to cows that wouldn't let down their milk (I believe the dose was 10cc per cow). Usually that was just for nervous young heifers, but some cows became addicted, and wore special leg bands indicating that they needed the oxytocin shot at every milking.
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Oh, by the way, I'm joining this thread now. I'm at approximately 15 weeks, due May 26.
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I need to stop reading this thread. Seeing all the beautiful babies and hearing all the stories makes me really want another baby. My baby is only 8 months old and I don't think my dh would even entertain another at this juncture... but your newborns are so adorable! I miss the sweet baby cuddles of that stage. Eliza simply wants to play all the time! I am pretty sure she thinks she is much too big to need a mommy cuddle anymore but I still sneak in a few baby cuddles now and then when she is sleepy.
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theresa, we have a 7 month old and we're not actively "trying" but we're not not trying, if you know what I mean... I know the feeling very well. It's not just seeing babies that makes me want another, we both decided before this one was born that we would be fine with a pregnancy any time after 6 months. No luck so far, but we're okay with that too.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: I would hope you would. And not just whether it was synthetic, but the exact source. That's not because you expect differences; that because all potential variables must be listed in a legitimate scientific paper.
Enough people are convinced that "natural" = healthy, safer, etc. that I think it is important to point out that a synthetic compound is often completely indistinguishable from the natural one. If you took an unlabeled sample of natural oxytocin and one from your favorite lab, would you expect to be able to distinguish them in a mass spectrometer? Under an electron microscope?
In a patient?
With oxytocin, a difference would probably upset me greatly. But I do think I have been doing too much scientific writing lately.
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Mel, congratulations! That's wonderful. I was getting a little nervous being the only pregnant lady here.
I really don't know if I'm done having babies. Andrew thinks he is, but I'm just not sure. I don't think I want to do fertility again, but apparently my chance of getting pregnant naturally is much higher than it was. So is my chance of having another set of multiples. My perinatologist gave me a look of shocked disbelief when I brought it up and made us promise to use birth control for at least a year (my cervix could not take another pregnancy before then). And while I adore babies, I hate being pregnant.
My doctor schedule is getting gruelling. I now see both my OB and perinatologist every week, as well as my weekly progesterone shot. I have to spend 15+ minutes at the perinatologist hooked up to fetal heartrate and contraction monitors. Getting both twins to stay on the monitors is not easy. One would drop off, then come back on, then the other one would drop off, then come back on, etc. The babies look perfect and I'm not even having minor contractions.
I chose a Hebrew name for Camille. I can't share it until after the naming, but it is in no way similar to her English name. It's a big weight off my mind, though.
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Our midwife was (jokingly) trying to convince us that we should aim to be pregnant again by next Christmas. I can fairly confidently state that barring unforeseen accidents, that is not going to happen.
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Yay Mrs. M! My kids all ran from the monitors all the time when I was pregnant, I can't imagine TWO active babies playing hide-and-seek. I'm glad they're well though!
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I like having kids close together. It's harder the first year or two, but looking back, it seems like just one long pregnancy, with two kids to show for it.
My youngest is 18 months. I'm getting baby hungry too, listening to all the baby news.
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I'm so hoping I'll be on this thread "for real" by next month. I doubt it but I can hope, right?
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quote: For fun, or because your uterus was not contracting to their liking?
This is late, but the easy answer is: for fun. I got the shot two minutes after delivering, probably less. I mean, I delivered, they handed me the baby, I asked why she was blue, they whisked the baby away, and while they were bagging her Nurse Helga rolled me over and stabbed me in the thigh. I clearly remember frantically asking my husband, "Is she okay?" while getting the shot.
In our hospital, the rule is that every mother gets an IV, and nearly all of them get pitocin in the IV after delivering. The first is actually a rule, the second is just standard. They started pitocin in my IV almost immediately with my first child. I hated it. Those two things are part of the reason I really wanted a midwife. (I didn't know it at the time, but there was a far superior hospital choice a couple of miles away. I found out about the level of care there after I was done having kids. Darn it.) When I went in with my last child, I never got the IV. I almost delivered in triage, but got moved to a delivery room at the last minute, trying not to push, and in the hustle it got overlooked. When my doctor came in to triage before they moved me, she wondered aloud why I didn't have an IV, but then told the nurses not to worry about it. Not sure why; I assume it's because she knew me really well and knew that I deliver easily and in record time. She also knew I really hate any intervention at all.
At any rate, I never did get an IV, although I was told that if I didn't pee enough over the next 24 hours they would give me one. I did get the pitocin shot with little to no warning; it was purely preventative. I was so...not happy about that. But it was better than an IV. At least it was over with quickly. And there was the added benefit of the fact that getting poked with something post-delivery is almost negligible. At that point, you just don't care about jack anymore.
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I had to have an IV with pitocin after delivering Duplo because I was bleeding a lot. I minded that much less than the uterine massage. OWWWW! I think that was the worst because I'd done a natural birth and thought I was done with the painful part.
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I never had to have an IV unless I was going to have an epidural. With my second, I asked for the epidural, and THEN they started the IV drip, and it was still dripping while hubby was cutting the cord. She came fast.
Why do they require you to have a pitocin shot AFTER the delivery? Is it to help your uterus contract back to normal size? Seems like it does that on its own, unless there's something not working right and you need help. I really wouldn't like them just assuming I need a shot for my body to do what's supposed to happen naturally.
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Needing a shot of pitocin is not uncommon, actually. And the potential risks -- I came closer than I like to remember to an emergency hysterectomy, and I was on iron pills for six months, so there was a LOT of blood loss -- are awfully high. I don't blame PSIT for being annoyed by their policy, but I can understand why a hospital might have it.
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I know some people need it. I just hate when they force medical intervention on everyone when only some need it.
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I agree, I don't think it should be universal. It should be based on individual patient need and preference (after almost bleeding to death twice, I requested pitocin be continued after deliverly before I even went in the third time. Even though the placenta didn't shred this time, I felt much better knowing how much pitocin post-delivery helped me the second time. But, that was MY choice and I don't think it should be made for me, either way, without my knowledge and consent.)
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I had to choose pre-delivery whether to have syntocin (pitocin): I was always going to have it, given the potentially high rewards vs the low consequences.
If I had been in the birth centre, it would have been a shot. As it was, they just kept the drip going after labour.
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I had pitocin after my first delivery, with the hyper-interventionist poopy-head back-up doctor, who waited about 10 seconds after the pit was administered and then yanked the placenta out by the cord.
With Charles my regular doctor was back (we told him he was on bedrest for the last month of my pregnancy so he couldn't hurt himself again and miss the delivery). He massaged my abdomen and let the placena come out in its own good time, while maintaining light tension in the cord. After about 20 minutes of that I wanted to say, "Give me the pitocin and get that thing out, I'm tired of this -- I've had the kid and I want to be done now." But I didn't. Since he was actually following the birth plan and all.
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Huh, weird. I don't think I had any pitocin after my delivery. Things were kinda crazy at that point, though, so I'm not sure I would have noticed if they gave me some in my IV. I'm with Brinestone on the Uterine Massage, though. HOLY COW that HURT!!
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Uterine massage hurts. Having someone sit on your abdomen -- because the massage isn't doing enough -- hurts more.
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Avoiding things like that is part of why some hospitals have this policy that has aroused so much ire. Predicting in advance who will need certain interventions is very difficult. This intervention is only slightly invasive, has fairly minor side effects, and saves lives, wombs, and blood supplies. Painkillers, too. I agree that patients should have options, but I can understand why a hospital might have the policy.
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I think everyone should just move to Richmond. Every single mom I know has had a great experience giving birth. I certainly have. Interestingly, everyone I know who had a baby in NYC had a horrible experience and many of the people I know in LA did, too.
Uterine massage is the worst. The name is very misleading.
My cervix is high and closed around the stitch. We decided to go ahead with the betamethasone shots, which I will be getting tomorrow and Thursday. Even though they're not effective past 34 weeks and I'm quite likely to go past that, it's much better to have them and not need them than need them and not have had them. They have to give them in L&D, but I don't have to stay overnight. I'm not looking forward to them - they're pretty nasty. Sort of like a tetanus shot, but worse. And I still have to get my progesterone shot on Thursday, which is also not a picnic. All totally worth it, though.
breyerchic, it's Leni Ann and Camille Victoria. Leni will be the one born first. I suspect that Baby A will be Leni and Baby B will be Camille, but you never know. I let y'all know the Hebrew names after the naming in the shul (it's very bad luck to say them before that).
I don't know if I've been thanking everyone for all the good wishes and prayers. They are so appreciated and help so much through the exhaustion and nerve pain and discomfort. Y'all are the best!
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: What did you think all those admissions forms were FOR?
Well, personally, when I sign them I cross out "c-section" and add "with verbal consent" before signing. They have to tell me everything they're putting in my body before I let them put it in. (This has saved me several times from being given something that's contraindicated because even a very good hospital loses track of my long list very quickly... I'm not looking forward to adding latex to the list!)
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I had to sign separate forms for each stage of my treatment - one set when I went up for the syntocin and epidural, another for the forceps (and possible c-section) and finally another when I was admitted into the post natal ward following birth.
My signature on the last form (post mega-epidural and pain killers) is decidedly wonky. I think I could make a good case that it wasn't actually me who signed it. Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Quick car seat question for kq - how thick can clothes be before they're unsafe for carseats? I bought a thick fleece footie/sleeper type thing for one of the babies and I don't know if it's safe. It's definitely not a snowsuit (not nearly as thick), but I'm nervous about it. Is there some sort of thickness guide? And what about those things where you can thread the seatbelt through it and zip it after you've buckled them in? Are those safe?
Even though we brought Aerin home in the winter, we only took her out for doctor appointments and we couldn't put her in cold weather clothes b/c of the apnea monitor. We used blankets and pre-warmed the car and ran with her from the car to wherever we were going. These babies will be out and about much more than Aerin and they won't have monitors, so I'm in new territory.
Maybe I should post this in the new babies thread, but I'm so tired.
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Here's how to tell: Buckle the baby in without the fleece. Unbuckle without loosening the harness. Put the baby in the fleece and try to re-buckle. If you don't have to loosen the harness, it's safe.
Conversely, you can dress the baby in the fleece, buckle tightly, remove without loosening, undress the baby into just regular clothes, re-buckle, and if it doesn't need to be tightened, it's safe.
The ones that the harness threads through are NOT safe, unless they were supplied with the car seat (and I'd still be a bit leery in most cases.) The "shower cap style cover" does not touch the harness and is considered safe.
My personal preference is to buckle the baby snugly and tuck a quilt or blanket firmly around the baby. If desired you can then add a shower cap-style cover to shield from the wind.
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I have a question too about car seats. I know you're supposed to put the "handle" of the baby seat in the down position when it's in the car. My question is, why? Is there risk the baby's head will hit it in a wreck? That it will hit the top of the car and jar the baby?
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(How cold does it get where you are, though? You might not need all that. Warm-ish clothing and a blanket might be all you need. You know they say "what you'd be comfortable in, plus one thin layer" is what you should put on the baby. )
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quote:Originally posted by Brinestone: I have a question too about car seats. I know you're supposed to put the "handle" of the baby seat in the down position when it's in the car. My question is, why? Is there risk the baby's head will hit it in a wreck? That it will hit the top of the car and jar the baby?
Actually, this is outdated and inaccurate advice.
New rule is "Follow the manufacturer's rule for handle usage."
Most companies now allow multiple positions, including most of them allowing straight up (including Graco. They allow the straight up position, or the two behind the seat; the only ones disallowed are the ones above the baby's head but not all the way up.) Some companies still require it down but some REQUIRE it to be UP. If you can't find this information in your manual, call the company for clarification or ask me and I'll find out for you.
The reason is that either it hasn't been tested in the other positions or it has been tested and has failed. So always read your manual.
Personally I have a Graco (though I'm getting rid of it-- hate infant carriers!) and after reading what some of the Graco engineers have to say about it and that most of them prefer to leave it up in the car, I usually leave it up when I use it (unless it's staying in the car; then I put it all the way down.)
In the past many weren't reinforced and could shatter in a crash. But now most are reinforced and having it up can actually in some cases provide some rollover and anti-rebound protection (again, varies by brand.) The reason Graco disallows the positions that are disallowed, I know, is the possibility of the baby's head being injured by the bar in a side-impact or a few other kinds of crash. However with it all the way up or in the allowed down positions that is not a danger either way, so again the key is to use any of the ALLOWED positions. All allowed positions are tested and safe.
Now, if the baby is not properly restrained, there have been some injuries from hitting a bar that is left up. However this will NOT happen in an unexpired, properly-cared-for seat in which the baby is properly secured and the harness is snug. And in those cases the baby may very well have just flown out and hit something else if the handle wasn't there to stop their movement.
If you'd like the rules for your specific seat, give me the brand and how old it is and I can get that information for you. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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(I know this thread is derailment and question friendly but I'm thinking I should probably just start an "official carseat question thread" if no one objects.)
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I suspected the thread through ones weren't safe. I'll get the covers - those should be good.
It's in the 30s in the mornings here and the wind comes up from the lake and makes it even colder. We're supposed to have a very cold winter this year, with more snow than usual. We've already had near record temperatures. I'm just happy that the backseat of the wagon has its own vents.
The babies will be coming with me to take Aerin to school 2 days a week and speech 1 day (Andrew takes her the other 2 days). They'll be starting Eema & Me at about 4 weeks and they'll be coming to MyGym, too. Then there's shul on Saturdays (with babysitting!!). I'm so happy not to have another year of quarantine like we had with Aerin.
It's funny - my mother and grandmother are always worried that Aerin (and all babies really) are cold and I have the typical preemie mom fear of overheating. My mother-in-law once suggested space heaters when the heat went out in Aerin's room in our old house and I absolutely flipped out. Of course, that was because I was caring for a micropreemie and dealing with a weird heating problem (it was only out in Aerin's room) and there was a section on the dangers of space heaters in the preemie safety booklet I'd made for her.
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I suspect it's generational. You would not believe the people who told me to cover my baby's head or she would get cold from the wind-- in Dallas, in August. The breeze was a nice relief! People would actually PULL OVER ON THE STREET to tell me this, and all were of prior generations.
In the case of 30 with a wind chill, I think you're probably right to want to shield them from the wind. The covers I linked to shield from wind really quite well and with warm layers and possibly a blanket on the coldest days should be perfect for you. Also with them being twins I'm sure it will take a little longer to get in and out, so it's good to have a little more warmth available.
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Oh, and for the record, if you don't get an IV when you deliver in the hospital, they give you a ginormous, horse-sized shot of pitocin in the thigh afterward. Like, for fun.
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The breeze was a nice relief! People would actually PULL OVER ON THE STREET to tell me this, and all were of prior generations.
