posted
I don't remember Neuromancer being all that vague, which probably means that I just missed all the subtlety, or maybe I picked up on it so well that I didn't realize that it was being subtle. I'll have to read it again some time. I do agree with your point though, in some cases.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Hmmmm, life with River..... (Wayne's World dream sequence 'dobidiboo' fade out) River: Honey, does this dress make my butt look big? WntrMute: Oh, no baby, not at all. (*thinking* just like two rhinos in a pillowcase) *THWAP*
River: Let's cuddle. WntrMute: Ok, honey (*thinking* and then I'll just [NOTICE, FURTHER THOUGHTS HAVE BEEN EDITED TO COMPLY WITH THE TERMS OF SERVICE]) *THWAP*
(Fade out of dream sequence)
On second thought now, that Inara.....
Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
If Book wasn't an operative, I don't know what he possibly could've been. I can't think of anything else that would fit. He beat a fed down in the pilot episode. He knew what kind of sniper rifle Niska's men had in war stories just by seeing the wounds of the dead guys(he was also pretty darn good at shooting kneecaps in that episode ). He got medical help from the alliance ship in safe.
The movie introduced the operative and I think made pretty clear that the hints in the show were leading toward that being Book's past life.
Posts: 204 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I agree with Twinky in that I prefer things not be too explicitly spelled out.
Which, now that I think of it, may be why I'm not as big a big fan of Ender's Shadow and it's sequels. I liked the amount of information we had in Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead. I didn't need or want all the additional bits filled in.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
He could also have been an Alliance officer who grew disillusioned with the Alliance's goals after the war.
Whereas Mal abandoned God after Serenity valley, perhaps Book embraced God instead. If he were a military officer/soldier, it would explain his proficiency and knowledge of weapons and combat, as well as his knowledge of Alliance tactics.
He doens't *have* to have been an Operative, though that theory is also very plausible.
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posted
Who is this Book character? I've only seen the movie, which may be the reason for my confusion.
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posted
By the fourth viewing, I was beginning to feel like the word "believe" was dropping a bit like an anvil.
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quote:I think Neuromancer is just such a story. [Smile]
It left me unsatisfied.
But, as our host likes to say, no story is for everybody (or does he say that not all stories are for everybody?)
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I've only seen the movie, and I got that Book was an operative. I didn't even think it was much of a stretch, to be honest.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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FC, I think Joss came as close as he could to telling us without saying it explicitly. We know from the series that Book has high-level Alliance credentials and combat experience but that he is not famous or infamous for something like high-level military service. The Alliance is not actively looking for him, and neither is anyone else. We know from the movie that he knows what Operatives are and how they work, which is very rare knowledge since supposedly nobody knows that Operatives even exist. We learn in the movie that Book's combat skills are not just good, they're outright incredible, since he singlehandedly brings down the ship that destroys Haven. We also know from the end of the movie that the Alliance does not automatically kill Operatives whose usefulness is expired.
Not only is it a perfect fit, it's the only fit Joss has actively offered to us. Given his skills as a director and writer, I'm pretty sure it was intentional.
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posted
In the first confrontation between Mal and the Operative, when the Op says that his warship locked onto Serenity's pulse beacon, and Mal shows the Op the pulse beacon, Mal mentions that he did that on advice from an old tracker. He's referring to Book, correct? I think that suggests that Book was an Operative.
"Who is this Book character? I've only seen the movie, which may be the reason for my confusion. "
Book was in the movie. He was Mal's friend at Haven who gave him advice when he was staying there.
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posted
I think the reason that I found the ambiguousness of Neuromancer unsatisfying is that I also found it confusing. I assumed that I just didn't understand what was going on.
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posted
Shepherd was his title, followed by Book, his last name (one assumes it was adopted when he converted, or something).
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Shepherd Derrial Book. Played by Ron Glass, not Silver.
In the novelization, there's a scene where the Operative encounters Book during the devastation of Haven, recognizes him, and calls him by "Derrial." I have no idea if this was made up by the novelist or if it was in the original Whedon script (it's not in the version of the script in the Visual Companion) but if it's true it would imply that was his name before. "Book" might be new, dunno.
Who is Book? Former operative? Former alliance officer? Maybe black ops, which would explain why he wasn't? An operative from Blue Sun, keeping an eye on the Tams? An ex-criminal, maybe along the lines of Niska, who found God? That would explain his knowledge of operatives, since one or two of those might have come after him before.
I like the ex-operative idea, but it ain't conclusive.
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posted
Gaal- I assumed he was talking about himself in that sequence.
Where is everyone getting that no one knows Operatives exist? The scientist definately knows what an Operative is, and when Book tells Mal that an Operative is after him, Mal knows what he's talking about. I assumed that everyone knew what Operatives were, but just didn't think much about them, because Operatives didn't have much bearing on their everyday lives. In the same way that everyone knows CIA spies exist, but no one really thinks about them at all on a day to day basis. Note, I'm not saying Operatives are like spies in any other way than the way society relates to them.
Twinky- Look, I agree with you, I think it's very likely that Book was an Operative. Regardless, you present it like it's canon, and it's patently not. That's one of the hazards of things being left unstated, you never really know. You've said you dislike it when things are explicitly stated, but in those situations there's always going to be the chance that you're wrong. All I'm saying is that that chance of being wrong needs to be recognized.
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But Inara.... She quite literally took my breath away on more than one occasion in that show.
I think my problem with Inara is that she's the one who depreciates the most without the makeup and costuming. Her real speaking voice is pretty unattractive, too.
Saffron was pretty hot, if built really oddly. I think I just like her initial, ultra-innocent act (I'm going to the special hell, too).
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very very cute. They'd both be great. But I like tough women. And I don't mean psychotic. I mean mentally, physically, and emotionally tough. And self-assured. It's Zoe in a near dead heat.
Inarra doesn't even make the list. I don't even comprehend you guys that like her best. She's freaking first season Deanna Troi all over again.
Neither does Saffron (make the list), cute as she is, because she's too often pouty. She reminds me most of a teenager, though River seems to be a teenager and Kaylee may well be one as well. But Saffron acts the most like a teenager.
And Lovebot . . . she just seems so artificial. Know what I mean?
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posted
The big "clue" to me about Book being an operative is the reaction to the identification. When the operative comes into the scientist's lab, the operative uses his ID and suddenly everyone drops everything and does what he says.
The same thing happened when Book showed his ID in the medical ship.
IIRC neither of the people who looked at the ID's reacted to it until the ID was scanned into a computer. The computer showed something that gave both men top priority.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
As far as leaving things unsaid . . . I don't like to feel confused about major plot points. I don't like to feel that an author is testing me, to see if I measure up to his intellect. I find that arrogant, and a turn off. But leaving peripheral details blank is totally different, to me. I very much like it when writers do that. I like that feeling of wondering if I see it all just right; I like being able to fill in the gaps with my own interpretation. I think peripheral vagueness can make a work of art richer.
I believe we are meant to draw the inference that Book is a former operative, or something very like it (i.e., a director/boss of operatives, maybe.)
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posted
I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. The bad guy said Book was no Shepherd. That was interesting.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Of all the Firefly women, Kaylee is the only one I actually find lovely. The others are reasonably attractive, but I would follow Kaylee like a lovesick puppy if I ran into her on the street.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Oh, man, Dag, that's just not a fair question. In that event, I suppose I'd yell "Hey, that's a really cool engine!" And when they came running back, I'd ask them to kiss each other.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
How many of the Serenity cast were supervillians in Buffy or Angel?
Mal was Caleb, Zoe was Jasmine, and Jane was super-liason to the senior partners. All three did serious damage and generally kicked butt at will until the superhero learned the right trick.
Was anyone else a Wheedon big bad?
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Me too. I'm not good at picking up the little things, so I need the facts handed to me straight up. None of this beating around the bush and suggesting things. My sensitive brain can't take it.
quote: I'd ask them to kiss each other
What is it with men wanting women to kiss eachother? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand.
Posts: 1789 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
There's a whole thread on this. Suffice it to say that you either get it or you don't. You may as well ask why Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy shippers exist, and why they're almost all women.
Edit: Whoops. Having re-read the first sentence of your post, I'll rephrase that: women kissing women = women who enjoy kissing - ugly men no one wants to see = hawt.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Jonathan Woodward. He holds the record for the Whedon hat trick, having played a nice-guy-turned-baddie-turned-dead-guy in Buffy, Angel, AND Firefly.
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