posted
Oh, whoops, I thought I put my hair color in my post. I must have taken it back out by mistake.
I'm a natural blonde. I got hit on more when my hair was long-ish, but I wore it up a lot too, so I don't know.
At one point I had the same exact measurements as Marilyn Monroe, but I've never been skinny. In High School I was 5'4" and 155 pounds, hardly tiny. But I carry weight well, and it goes to all the right places. People were always shocked to find out I weighed that much. So I guess it didn't show.
The frustrating thing about getting hit on was the guys who did it. Every special ed or physically handicapped guy had a crush on me, though I admit they didn't bother me too much.
The ones that really made me feel yucky were ones who threatened to kill themselves if I didn't go out with them, ones who spelled their own names wrong in the letters they sent me, ones who asked me to be their secret admirer. I'm not making any of that up.
And, obviously I notice when guys check me out. I don't search them out, but my Spidey Sense, as someone says, points it out to me. My sister on the other hand, though attractive, had a hard quality. She emitted a distinct vibe of F-off to guys. So she almost never got hit on in school.
And add me to the list of people with skin so pale it's see-through. I've had zits since I was nine and still get them regularly, as well as getting blotchy when I cry, blue when I'm cold, lobsterized in the sun, and I never tan.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've had nearly every shade of hair color possible, including some that weren't possible (Ronald McDonald red, fluorescent pink, bright purple), and when I was blonde, I had men hitting on me ALL THE BLOODY TIME.
For the record, I've never been one to go to bars or such. I'm much too uncomfortable in such situations, and it helps that I don't drink. The hitting on would happen in the grocery store, doctor's office, bus stop, going shopping, waiting in line at the bank...
As a brunette, I was never hit on outside of working the graveyard shift at the hotel. Cuz, you know, if you're a female and work graveyards at a hotel, naturally, you're a slut and looking for anything to sleep with, especially if they're wearing wedding bands and were twice my age. Wearing a wedding ring only stopped the more polite would-be adulterers.
As a red-head, I was hit on more than a brunette, but considerably less than a blonde.
In all of that, if my boobs were at all, um, obvious that they were as large as they were (I tended to wearing clothing that concealed rather than revealed as a method of self-preservation) then I was hit on even more.
As I've gained weight, it's tapered off to nothing except for my husband. Yay!
Now, in all of this, think carefully. What motivation do I have to lose weight? Yeah. Thought so. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
Well, if I were to draw my very, ahem, scientific conclusions from this thread, I would say that being blonde does help in being "picked up" on more often, but it isn't the only important factor. Others seem to be confidence, friendliness, and uh, breast-size.
There is also the cliche that women with glasses never get hit on. I pretty much have to wear glasses if I want to see. Astigmatism too strong for anything else to be much help. Anyone out there think it is true? Or might it be changing since glasses are "fashionable" these days?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm clearly not thinking clearly, quid -- long day at work, I suppose . . .
*************************
Dirty dishwater blonde.
Never.
But then, everyone around me seems to think one of three things about me:
a. I'm a lesbian (for the record, I'm not, nor have I ever been) b. I'm really truly heading for a convent after I raise my son (it's such a tempting and delicious dream, I must say) c. My ex-husband and I are really still a unit because we co-parent skillfully and without a lot of the discord that is a hallmark of so many divorces, and therefore I am unapproachable (deep sigh of disbelief)
Actually, I have a colleague that hits on me frequently. It's blatant, overtly sexual, and fairly revolting. His arrogance irritates me greatly, so I just stand back and let him enjoy his little games . . . that's pretty wicked, isn't it? *evil grin*
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was hit on again several times tonight. And I haven't even gone out yet.
Shan, I am also often mistaken for bi/lesbian. It's strange though. I've been hit on by more than a few women, who are always very friendly and laid-back about it when I tell them I'm only into men, and who will still hang around and have some drinks with me. Then there are the ex-boyfriends I've had who have desperately hoped that the reason I wouldn't sleep with them or whatever is because I'm secretly into women, too. Yeah, those didn't go over so well.
Newsflash, men. Sometimes, a woman won't sleep with you because of YOU. Not because she's into women.
posted
I'm a brunnette, and I'm never picked up. I have some guys who try to pick me up as a joke, but they're my friends, so I don't mind. Other than that though, it's usually my friends that people try to pick up.
Posts: 1789 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Another newsflash for men: It is not cool to single out the blonde in the group for flirting. It happens *way* too often.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
Reminds me of the last guy I dated before Porter. I was leaving on a mission for my church and assured him that no I was *not* interested in marrying him. I was just dating him for fun. He assured me over and over that I just felt that way because I was going on a mission. Were it not for that, I would be plenty interested.
He's the guy I dumped when I realized Porter struck a chord with me even though I thought Porter would never be interested in me in a million years.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm always surprised that some men have such a defined "type" that they would only approach/hit on/be attracted to a woman because of a specific physical characteristic (such as a particular hair color).
Or maybe I've just never understood having a "type" at all. Women are just hot. Why limit oneself, aesthetically?
Posts: 1068 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The men I've met who have had a strictly defined "type" have always been the ones who were the biggest control freaks.
Not even to keep me looking like their "type," even. The guy I dated who was really, really into redheads kept telling me that he thought I should go back to my natural color. Because he was a huge control freak and just wanted me to change to be what he thought I should be.
He also thought I should jump at the chance to have threesomes with him and another woman. Oh, and I should gain weight because CLEARLY then I would have bigger boobs. And despite the fact that I am very tall and thin, my boobs were clearly not big enough, even though he was very overweight. My body was just not perfect enough for him.
...yeah....*sidles off to call skinny rocket scientist at work*
-pH
Edit: Adding missing words. *pats Mr. Daniels*
Posts: 9057 | Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged |
Seriously, any guy who gives me body issues with the figure I have...does not deserve to look me in the eye. I don't mean that in a particularly egotistical way...just that if I want to get into better shape, it should be because I want to...not because some guy is dissatisfied with the way I look. I'm in good shape. I'm not perfect, but for crying out loud...
posted
See, to me, a large part of the aesthetic fun of women is that there is such a great variety--of hair colors, heights, shapes, personalities,etc.
This may partially explain why I could never get a tattoo--it would drive me crazy to have something attached to my body that would always be exactly the same.
This may also partially explain why I'm not married, but that's a mildly depressing line of thought.
Posts: 1068 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I tend to presume that if someone if friendly, or even mildly flirty, they're not trying to pick me up - just being outgoing.
Oh, I'm dark brunette and get hit on ... very occasionally now. When I was still at uni it was more frequently (and much *much* more obvious) - but that's uni boys for you.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was going to say that maybe that's the wedding ring effect in part.
Then I remembered that the last, over-the-top pick up happened on my hen's night. There I was with my friends, when two guys came over. One approached me and said "Hey, my friend likes you" or words to that effect. I looked over to see said friend glassy eyed, waving a beer glass at me. I smiled and said I wasn't interested.
So friend comes over, puts his arm around me and propositions me. To which I say I'm engaged, and will be married next week. His reply "That doesn't matter - I'm already married" and he shows me his ring .
posted
imogen: WOW. That's ridiculous. I have at least one friend who wears a fake diamond on her ring finger for the sole purpose of fending off unwanted advances.
It was at a bar which is nice on a normal evening but hell on Earth on a Friday (which is when we were there) - full of drunk obnoxious 30 something professionals, all looking to hook up. Basically a meat market for yuppies.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
And when I was at this conference in France...Lord. Being an eighteen-year-old girl at the time, surrounded by at least somewhat older music industry types...
I once ran into one of my boyfrien'd coworkers by accident while I was out with a friend. I'd never met the guy before, and as soon as he found out who I was dating, he started hitting on me BAD...in that kind of, "Oh, I'm surprised you'd date a guy like HIM" kind of way. I found that frustrating enough. I can only imagine if I was going to be MARRIED soon...
posted
Forgive the intrusion of a male in the female thread.
To be, hair color means very little, though I suppose if I had was forced to choose the type, I'd probably put redheads on top, with brunettes very close behind, and blondes near the end. I admit to somewhat buying into the stereotype of dumb blondes, only because I've known so many at the restaurant where I work, and nothing is more unattractive than an airhead, regardless of what she looks like.
But mostly, the most attractive thing to me is regardless of hair color, is the length and curliness. I'm a sucker for long curly hair, it doesn't matter what color it is, I'll probably hone in on that girl in a group. It's my only real kryptonite when it comes to a specific feature on women.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've got a somewhat related question: Since some have shared some pretty jaw-dropping failures, how about some partial/complete successes?
I'm mostly curious about how many guys know what they're doing, compared to how many don't... no need to be overly specific; I can understand if y'all don't want to give away the secret(s).
male, dark-brown hair, hit on by guys verrry seldom but not never... Posts: 37 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My current boyfriend ended up dating me by...biding his time.
I've told this story on this messageboard before. It's still a very, very new romantic relationship.
When he met me, I was ending a bad, bad relationship. Then I started another bad relationship. We'd become friends, so I know I vented to him on occasion about how badly I was being treated, but he never turned it into a "Oh, he doesn't deserve you, find someone who knows how to treat you [read: LIKE ME]."
I went off to Chicago because of the hurricane. He made the effort to keep in touch even while I continued to date other people.
A month and a half before I came back, he volunteered to check out apartments for me. Then he offered to help me move into my new place. Then he spent three hours following me around Target, being subjected to questions such as, "Which green matches my bathroom better?" and, "Which candles are better for my living room theme?" That's when I realized that I liked him and that he probably liked me.
I have no idea if this was a conscious plot on his part. I suspect it wasn't because part of what I find so attractive about him is that he isn't pushy. Which isn't to say that he doesn't know when to scoop me off my feet...just that he doesn't try to MAKE me see things his way...if that makes sense.
I've been hit on plenty...by a lot of different guys in a lot of different ways. But he set himself apart by...not "hitting on me," per se.
posted
Okay, so I'm an engineer. You know those t-shirts that read "I'm an engineer; flirt harder"? Well, those probably apply to me.
With that disclaimer out of the way:
I have long, curly, dark brown hair. It's usually down.
I rarely get hit on, as far as I can tell. It happens maybe a few times a year. Generally, I'll be talking to a variety of people in a social situation, and a guy will express interest in me after talking to me for awhile. This has almost uniformly been due to a guy finding out I have geeky interests.
I have been yelled at a few times while walking down the street near campus. Every time this has happened, I was with at least one other girl. It doesn't happen to me when I'm alone. The question is whether this is because guys mostly yell at groups of girls, or because other girls are more attractive.
The interesting thing with my hair is that I've been told by complete strangers that it's beautiful. Of course, these strangers have all been women. So, I don't know how guys perceive it.
Other things to consider: while I consider myself pretty, I don't think I'm all that sexy looking. Also, I generally dress very causually (T-shirts and shorts, no makeup), and I have a fairly ordinary figure. I suspect these things may matter more than my hair.
Interesting question, Beverly! Perhaps the women of Hatrack should conduct experiments by changing one variable per month and seeing how it affects the hitting-on rate.
Also, if any guys do yell at girls walking, it's generally not going to impress them. At least, I find it vaguely amusing at best, and annoying at worst.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Walking home from High School one day, a car passed by and was honking and screaming at me (Girls in the car).
I just assumed they were being jerks. Then again, a very similar experience was when I was on my way to elementary school, and people in a car squirted a HI-C fruit punch at me, while screaming.
I'm sure it's part of why I've never thrown anything at anyone from a moving vehicle; Not to mention the only things I would ever scream from a vehicle would be BANANA! or some similar fruit. That usually happened from a school bus, or just with close friends.
Now to get to the topic at hand: I don't hit on women very often, and I unless I'm just being playful, won't hit on women while they are on the job. I somehow got the idea into my head that it's rude to torture the poor girl that has to be at work, and then has to deal with a guy bothering her. I really only hit on girls when I'm in a really relaxed mood, and don't think of the situation going any further than just a few jokes or funny moments.
My niece would get hit on at work, and almost daily by older men, and younger men. She was a life guard at a local pool. (she's a brunette btw) I heard enough from her about it that I guess somehow I decided that it wasn't a nice thing to do.
Now on the other hand: I've never been approached by a woman trying to pick up on me. (Or, I'm completely oblivious)
- For those that don't really know me, I am male.
Posts: 189 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: I have at least one friend who wears a fake diamond on her ring finger for the sole purpose of fending off unwanted advances.
I used to do this when I worked at a casino gift shop. I called it my keep-the-freaks-away ring. For some reason, a lot of male customers there seemed to think that female casino employee = available for your romantic amusement. Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
pH, My success story is remarkably similar to yours. My husband liked me for years and I never gave him the time of day. Well, when I first met him I'd just turned 19 and he was 30. He was already balding and paunchy, stared at me all the time in church, and got tongue-tied whenever he was actually in a position to talk to me. So, even though he was from Glasgow and I've always wanted to marry a Scotsman, I wasn't interested.
Well, after at least a year of being stared at in church, I moved back home with my parents an hour away. He got my email and we started writing back and forth, as friends. I discovered that he was actually pretty cool and had a lot in common with me. The written word is an amazingly powerful thing. That's why I'm not surprised when I hear about Internet relationships.
Anyway, I still wasn't interested in dating but after a few months I changed my mind, and the rest is history.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Heh. We have a big Scottish festival at Stone Mountain every year, with lots of pipers and so fourth. The boys really dig the bagpipe music, so we went to watch the marching.
Just before it was over we made our way out, and Ron said "Wait." I stepped to the side of the entrance only to realize that Ron and the kids had gone the other way. I thought it was dumb because the way I went was closer to where we parked.
Anyway, by that time I couldn't cross to the other side because of everyone pouring out, most of them wearing kilts. This one distinguished older fellow walks up to me and says, conversationally, "Watch yourself around all these men in kilts, young lady. They're all bastards."
Somehow, with the accent, it sounded rather more charming than it looks in print. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:My husband liked me for years and I never gave him the time of day. Well, when I first met him I'd just turned 19 and he was 30. He was already balding and paunchy, stared at me all the time in church, and got tongue-tied whenever he was actually in a position to talk to me.
This was tough for me to read, on a few levels. It's not a mark on the quality of anyone's character, and I appreciate your frankness, but there is something in your high-handed dismissal of him that's frightening. Even though, and maybe because it ended with you two together, it is still a fearsome picture. Like being in the face of a God or Devil or Whatever.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
As a guy, I'd have to say, that I'm with Lyrhawn on this one. Hair color does little either way, but if I had to choose, red, brown and black would be at the top followed by blonde. Again for similar reasons.
I'm a sucker for cute accents, but it is by no means a limitation. The real turn on is a good laugh and likeable personality. I think women who are happy with how they look and are confident in themselves exude a certain sexiness.
I don't "pick up" on women, and frankly, I wouldn't even know how. I'm generally out of the loop on these sort of things. I wouldn't even have a clue if someone liked me or was flirting with me. A few years back, my roommate (female) told me when I moved out, that she had a thing for me. Over two years and I didn't have a clue! Thinking back on it, that must have been terrible for her.
Coincidentally, I will be going back to school for engineering and will be in the market for one of those "I'm an engineer; flirt harder" t-shirts. Posts: 298 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Went out to dinner with Steve last night, to an Applebees. As a result of this conversation I remembered a previous time at a different Applebees, when Steve and I were having a spirited discussion over a fine point of Firefly or something equally as arcane and enjoying ourselves. A waiter took it as an argument, and basically thought the date was going badly and started hitting on me about halfway through the dinner.
I can't remember what he said, but it stopped our conversation in shock. When he left I asked Steve, "Did he just imply what I thought he did?" Steve was equally as surprised and said yeah. We went back to our discussion but I spelled things out pretty plainiy to the waiter when he came back.
posted
Blonde to light brown. Hit on? Yes. Always creeped out by it? Yes.
I don't think it's the "there must be something wrong with you if you are attracted to me" thing. It's more of an "oh, good grief, you are acting unpredictably, and now I have to worry if you are going to follow me out to my car" kind of thing. Maybe this is because I've been oblivious to the less aggressive approaches, but I really do think that I used to attract unstable people like a flies to a pot of honey.
I don't think I would've been so creeped out by being hit on if this happened in a meet market sort of place, such as certain bars. The behavior would be more expected there. But instead, I would either get approached just on the street or in professional settings, and there never failed to be a "hey! I'm crazy, and you can be too!" glint to their eyes. Maybe I just looked like the sort of woman who wouldn't bonk 'em on the head or otherwise hurt their feelings in response to general social inappropriateness.
I've learned how to stand and walk differently, how to hold my head and face differently, and how to use my body language more effectively since then. And I joined the Tight-Bunned Mean Old Ladies Club. *grin
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
There was a short time in my life where my friends told me I looked great, and that I was getting second glances by guys. These friends told me, however, that I'd never, ever get hit on because my body language said "go away, not interested," so very strongly. They tried to explain to me what I was doing but I never really understood. Anyway, I never did get hit on, but I always have brown hair and wear glasses and never really dress well so I'm not surprised, body language or no.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've never whistled or yelled or anything of that sort at women on the street. I don't see the point.
A girl who is so vain that she would actually be flattered by that kind of thing is probably someone I wouldn't want to be dating anyway, and a girl I'd actually want to date I would never approach her that way as I think she would find it very rude.
But then, I haven't been on a date in the two years since my last relationship ended, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. What I hate from girls is what I guess you could call "polite flirting." Girls who flirt just to be nice. It's not leading guys on necessarily, but it's impossible to tell the difference between flirting just to be nice and conversational, and flirting because there is an actual interest. My lack of ability to distinguish between the two has left me pretty much in the position of just asking NONE of them out.
I'm nowhere near forward enough to pick up a random girl I met in a bar or something. Striking up a conversation alone would be difficult for me. However, asking a girl at work out, or a casual friend or some such, someone I already know, would be a lot easier for me. Not that I've actually done it mind you, but it'd be easier
I really wish that for awhile every year, things would turn on their heads and girls would be responsible for all the "picking up" and then they'd realize just how difficult it is. Not that some don't, but the majority I think just don't get it.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've never whistled or yelled or anything of that sort at women on the street. I don't see the point.
A girl who is so vain that she would actually be flattered by that kind of thing is probably someone I wouldn't want to be dating anyway, and a girl I'd actually want to date I would never approach her that way as I think she would find it very rude.
But then, I haven't been on a date in the two years since my last relationship ended, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. What I hate from girls is what I guess you could call "polite flirting." Girls who flirt just to be nice. It's not leading guys on necessarily, but it's impossible to tell the difference between flirting just to be nice and conversational, and flirting because there is an actual interest. My lack of ability to distinguish between the two has left me pretty much in the position of just asking NONE of them out.
I'm nowhere near forward enough to pick up a random girl I met in a bar or something. Striking up a conversation alone would be difficult for me. However, asking a girl at work out, or a casual friend or some such, someone I already know, would be a lot easier for me. Not that I've actually done it mind you, but it'd be easier
I really wish that for awhile every year, things would turn on their heads and girls would be responsible for all the "picking up" and then they'd realize just how difficult it is. Not that some don't, but the majority I think just don't get it.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:A girl who is so vain that she would actually be flattered by that kind of thing is probably someone I wouldn't want to be dating anyway, and a girl I'd actually want to date I would never approach her that way as I think she would find it very rude.
Speaking for myself... If a guy were to make appreciative comments about me as I were to walk past, I would find myself with a HUGE ego boost. I'm most certainly not vain in the normal sense of the word in this type of discussion - i.e. I am not conceited or selfcentered. I am possibly vain in the other main definition of the word - lacking in substance. I don't believe I'm attractive, and maybe guys pick up on that.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I really wish that for awhile every year, things would turn on their heads and girls would be responsible for all the "picking up" and then they'd realize just how difficult it is. Not that some don't, but the majority I think just don't get it.
I'm trying really, really hard to get the courage to ask a guy at work out. Really hard. Trust me when I say I know exactly how difficult it is.
Just as a side note, it seems I'm always the one initiating things and I'm getting a bit tired of it. I should go on strike.
Posts: 378 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know if females get hit on in fora like this one, but I've noticed on male dominated fora that being female can get you noticed.
We've actually used this knowledge at work to our advantage. I work as a computer programmer, and a guy at work posted a technical question on a programming forum. He got no reply.
We then posted the same question under a female pseudonym, and we got 5 replies with helpful advice.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I got picked up on once. But I am asian looking, and there are always asian fetishists out there. I don't know, it may also be that I'm too socially obtuse to know a pick up when it happens. Did someone already mention that?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I go to bars and clubs, I get hit on, but otherwise, no. As long as they back off when asked, I enjoy it. Occasionally a long-term friend will become interested and express that either directly or indirectly, but that's not quite the same thing.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apparently I've been hit on more than I ever noticed. In high school I didn't notice it at all, but people now have said it was pretty obvious, one guy ended up quite stalkerish. I'm a brunette but have had blonde highlites, and been a redhead but I don't know which helped the most. I do know that I get looks when I wear horizontal stripes or a v neck.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a question for guys. What's the difference between a girl talking to you just to talk, and one flirting with you? Is it the subject matter? The number of times she laughs? Her body language? What is it?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had the weirdest experience the other night at the bar. I was out with my fiance for drinks. He lives almost 8 hours away from me at the moment so I don't get to see him very often. As such, I was more affectionate with him in public then I might normally be inclined. We kissed a few times and held hands. He may or may not have let his hand drift a bit. So anyways, we were at a long table with three guys at the other end that we didn't know.
At one point, Paul got up to use the restroom. I was just sitting quietly sipping my drinking when one of the guys at the end of the table moved down and sat acrossed from me. I thought he was just being nice and talking to me because I looked bored. Clearly, I could not be being hit on seeing as I was clearly with someone. Not the case at all. He repeatedly told me I looked good. I mostly just laughed and played it off. Then he asks for my number. I smiled and flashed him the engagement ring and said I was taken. He then took out a pen and wrote a number and name on a napkin and said it was for "just in case". Yeah, that was interesting to explain to Paul when he came back. Then when Paul went to refill our drinks, the guy came back over and said it was nice chatting and that he hoped I'd give him a call. I never get hit on so I have no idea what the hell was up with this. Apparently being engaged is a guy magnet these days.
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Wearing a wedding ring only stopped the more polite would-be adulterers.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
And I haven't even gone out yet.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
