posted
I said the exact same thing. He can't teleport, and doesn't have super speed or anything...but he just appears in the car, and the disappears and is back on a roof. Do they want us to assume that he has powers that they haven't shown us?
Posts: 49 | Registered: Sep 2008
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Yes.
We already know he is really good at being sneaky and what not.
As for the acting, he acts perfectly like the people hes assuming. Hes only Hannible Lecture when in his current form.
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GRRRR!!!!! This episode pissed me off so much. We had so many characters ACTUALLY ACTING INTELLIGENT. And then those same characters acted SOOO STUPID!!!!!
Everyone had Danko at gunpoint at least once. Bennett didn't even have a good reason to leave him, he could have walked his way out of range of the other henchmen and either shot Danko once he was clear or... something. Anything.
And Matt Parkman suddenly realizes life is worth living when he learns he has a son. Which is great. Except that Molly is still off at boarding school somewhere waiting for him.
Geez. I really wanted to like this episode. It had a lot of good moments in it. (I think the writers have made good use of Sylar's shapeshifting. Every time Sylar was in the scene, I could tell, but I always guessed wrong at who he was).
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I watched it again after missing the last four. It was like I didn't realize a burden had been lifted from my shoulders until it was back for an hour.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: GRRRR!!!!! This episode pissed me off so much. We had so many characters ACTUALLY ACTING INTELLIGENT. And then those same characters acted SOOO STUPID!!!!!
It's the syndrome of the arch-villain who has to survive. And yeah, this was very close to being a great episode, especially thanks to Bennet. Although I dislike some of his actions he has by far proved to be the most intelligent/cunning character in the series.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The dynamic between Sylar and Bennett in this last episode shows that you can have intelligent characters acting intelligently, yet STILL have them get into all manner of dramatic conflict!
Why can't they just do that with, you know, the rest of the show.
Parkman's dynamic with Danko approached this, but they had to go and bring a gun into the mess again. Why on earth would Parkman need to threaten anyone with a gun? The dramatic setup of Danko losing the person he loved - not through death, but through disgust, is great.
The whole threaten-to-kill-girlfriend/gave-up-and-was-willing-to-die bit was a cheap way to bring Hiro into the mix, but really watered down the Parkman/Danko dynamic. He could have just as easily made both Danko and the girl believe that he had been shot and killed - or anything else for that matter - while simply walking out of the room himself.
Seems the writers woke up somewhat from their stupor, but are still a bit bleary-eyed.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I think the bit with the gun is sort of played out by now. We KNOW that Parkman can't kill an innocent person in cold blood. I'm not even sure he could kill a guilty person in cold blood (else Danko would be dead). But the fact that he brought the gun out showed that A. He very much WANTED to be that person. I thought it was a good way to portray the split in his character, between his desire for revenge and his inability to overcome his better angels. B. The fact that he not only doesn't kill the girl, but doesn't kill Danko as well when he has him cold says a lot about his state of mind as well. C. Only more proof positive how much of a ruthless bastard Danko really is.
I'm glad they're exploring the dynamic of the good/evil tactics. What sorts of things are we willing to resort to to win a war, and do we lose in the attempt just by lowering our standards? I think Hiro is far too simplistic a character to make the argument for goodness, but Matt is perfectly complex and conflicted enough to make the argument that the ends justify the means. Bennett would be good in that regard as well, but then you have Danko, who so obviously points out that the means cause more problems than they solve.
There are a lot of issues being explored in this show, but I think the way they are portrayed makes you dig for them more than than say BSG does, which pushed them into your face and made you deal with them. A more in your face Heroes I think would be more successful. But that means they have to pair up the opposing sides of arguments with better representatives. I love Hiro, but he's too one dimensional.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Honestly, every time a character on this show pulls out a gun, I groan.
It's lazy writing.
Parkman doesn't need a gun, as we have seen. He can make you do things with his mind. Why shoot someone when you can have them shoot themselves, or have someone else shoot them for you (as he has done already). Or better, as he had already done, ruin them without resorting to the gun.
If I could stomach it, I'd go back through Seasons 2-4 and catalogue every time someone with powers pulled out a gun and why it was a terrible decision by the writers.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Sorry for the string posting, but another thought occurred to me.
I think the writing in the show would be better if every character were written as if it were their show.
Heroes has a string of characters with powers that could each likely carry their own show, and the writers would be tasked with thinking up new ways to use/hinder that character's power.
Instead, the plot comes before the characters... and the characters often need to be hit with the idiot bat to make sure they fall in line with the plot.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
like a d&d campaign with a newb dm and powergamer characters.
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I've stopped overanalyzing the show. Or analyzing it much at all, really. I just keep hoping they get all the heroes together in one spot. I've had that desire since season 1, though, and it hasn't happened yet.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Blayne, it really is like a bad DM. Forcing the plot, regardless of the actions of the player characters - which generally makes for a pretty frustrating gaming experience.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Though i bet you wouldnt complain if you got paid to act on a railroad plot
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I wouldn't complain if I got paid to watch one, either. But since I don't get paid, I don't have a problem complaining. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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[url= http://"http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/television"]This[/url] is a fairly interesting article about the future of TV, with a particular comment by Tim Kring as the focus of the article.
Edit: No matter how many times I edit the URL here it always comes out wrong. Whatever. In retrospect it wasn't actually that great an article, which can basically be summed up as "With the advent of the internet, prime time television will be replaced with topical and/or reality crap."
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
It's going to have to change. We'll see a lot fewer shows that can't make money through product placement, I think.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I know, I kept changing that, and it wouldn't register the change (there's also two https, and it wouldn't let me change that either. it was weird).
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I thought I watched Heroes all the way through, but maybe I missed some bits while I was doing the laundry. Did they ever explain why Alice was freaking out pretty much the entire time they were there? Or why the boys were willing to sneak out to eat fries but go on to found the Company?
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
That was an interesting episode. I was pretty disappointed by it most of the way because it seemed like yet another pointless episode, introducing another pointless character, ignoring what had gone on before only to be ignored by the next episode.
But then at the end where it looked more or less like they were forming a new Company, or at least a Family, I started liking it. Maybe getting back to the first season? Maybe actually getting the characters together, or at least in contact with each other?
Eh, who am I kidding.
But then, even if the episode is just another crappy one, I'll still keep watching. *sigh*
As an aside, does anyone else remember in whatever season Adam was the protagonist there being some newspaper article flashed at some point about someone changing the weather? I think actually it was someone looking at a folder or book in Bob's office which had an article about "freak weather changes" or something. I dunno ... maybe I'm just imagining things. Either way I thought her sister was pretty pointless.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I like how the memes from season one as I pointed out.
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Oh, and the reason I came to this thread (sorry Blayne, it wasn't you ): the only good thing about this episode was seeing Sylar at the end. In retrospect it was an obvious move and I'm ashamed I haven't thought of it...
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I thought it was an interesting episode because there has been this history of the company hanging over the series since the beginning. It's about time that we started to get a sense of how that history came about.
Also, we know that abilities are genetic, and Heroes is based around how the current generation of people with abilities is in conflict with how the previous generation learned to deal with the problem. It seems we now have three generations actively dealing with the "ability problem."
Also note: although I didn't call it here, I had guessed that Rebel was Micah. I also think that Micah must be working with Molly, since he would need her power to locate the people he's been communicating with through technology.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I also think that Micah must be working with Molly, since he would need her power to locate the people he's been communicating with through technology.
Ooh, I like that a lot! I hadn't considered that aspect of the situation, but it's a pretty awesome one. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I hope it's true. Molly's one of my favorite characters and right now it looks like they basically forgot about her.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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This episode just proved to me why I think Sylar should have been killed permanently at the end of Season 1. For all that I do have to say Zachary Quinto is doing a fine acting job with him... the character just drives me nuts. Always has, and I think always will.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
This episode I think signified the end of heroes for me. I LIKE Sylar. I've been waiting for an episode like this for forever... but they've screwed up his character so much that by the time we finally got here, I just didn't care.
And while it DOES make a degree of sense for the "brain stabbing thing" to not have worked (his body's changing so much and probably mutating itself by this point), it's a boring plot twist. Shape shifting forced characters to act intelligent and produced interesting stories. Sylar being even more unkillable than he already was... doesn't.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
So basically you get to say "I stopped watching Heroes about the time we found out Sylar is Norman Bates"
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eh, I didn't mind it. I mean, there have been a LOT worse, IMO. I actually thought the confrontation between Sylar and Nathan was pretty well done, though I wondered where Peter was. And I don't think Sylar is unkillable. If his brain exploded into tiny bits, that might be enough, unless he actually exists outside of his body and doesn't need a brain at all. Heh. I could just picture the writers doing that: Sylar dies, but then possesses someone else.
I still maintain that if you've watched the show through the whole catalyst, Peter taking Sylars power, etc etc story line, or even if you watched Peter completely forget about the girl he was trying to save from the virus, the current issues with the show are really not that bad.
posted
No, but this is clearly as good as it's going to get, even with Fuller back at the helm.
I'm still pissed that Molly's gone (and my dad's Molly + Micah theory doesn't seem to have worked out).
I do wonder if maybe this season will end with a Peter/Sylar fight, with Peter taking Sylar's powers. (I'm not sure if it'd be cool or lame for Peter to be able to take all of Sylar's powers at once)
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I was mostly bored with this week's episode. It didn't advance the plot much. All it did was throw a couple of frankly annoying twists in...messing with Hiro's power (again), Syler unable to die (again), Syler going back and forth in his mind to try to determine how he can best serve the plot (again). Even baby touch and go bored me. I mean, Matt Parkman drove across the country just so he could dump the plot tool (I mean his son) and drive back.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
So, Sylar slit Nathan's throat, so Matt did some mind magic on Sylar and turned him (obviously imperfectly) into Nathan, who then talked to the President and somehow that fixed everything, in spite of all the bodies on the deck not only historically, but in this very episode?
I'd be *REALLY* interested in that conversation.
Suspension if disbelief is completely toasted. and yet.. somehow.. I know I'll be watching season 5 anyway. Stupid train wrecks. . . .
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I'm willing to forget that notion if they are, so long as it's gone for good.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
NERD RAGE! EPIC BATTLE BETWEEN PETER AND SYLAR AND ITS OFF FREAKING CAMERA!?
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEE!!!!!
Other then that... *Ahem*
"You are nolonger Zero! Nolonger Lelouch vi Britannia! You are now Lelouch Lepamerge! Forget about being Zero!"
Code Geass geek moment of awesomeness And also Nightmare Fuel.
Then there's the Stockhole Syndrome rape overtunes, creepy, but expected, that girl when in Maxim was hawt.
I liked how the pieces built up sorta worked but theres some plotholes to consider, by lasering out his memories of Sylar couldnt he heal those? What stops him from using his other powers by accident? I geuss it all depends on how powerful Matts ability is, if you can convince the brain wihtout damaging it to "forget" all his powers that could work, but healing and as confirmed, his intuitive aptitude his passive abilities still seem to be around.
This isn't going to end well, and if they were Genre Savvy they would know THIS WOULD NEVER END WELL.
Also, idiot ball people can they inject Nathan with Claire's blood and heal him? Like with Noah back in season 2?
Why cant they put Claires blood in Hiro? Like give him a sash of shots to heal his Brain every 5 times or so he freezes time?
*Nerd rage broke ability to handwave shows flaws from being unable to see epic special effects showdown of ultimate destiny RAWR*
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quote:Nerd rage broke ability to handwave shows flaws
Been waiting for that to happen. Welcome!
Yeah, a lot of the plot decisions were just painful. I'm also curious what happens when Nathan tries to fly.
The offscreen fight is likely a result of slipping ratings and the network's unwillingness to spend a lot of money on effects. They took great pains in this episode to have as many "powers" happen offscreen as possible.
I'm hoping Season 5 is a fresh start with new writing direction, but I'm very doubtful.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I could have handle all the plot inconsistencies if they hadn't so totally screwed up Hiro. I was mad at them at the end of last season for leaving his powerless. I wasn't thrilled that they left him a bit lame this season, only giving him back the ability to freeze time, but especially as that's pretty powerful in and of itself, I was willing to go with it. And then they had to have his body reject the power? ARGH! I want Hiro back. Every since the future Hiro episode, I've been waiting for Hiro to become that...totally cool ass-kicking Hiro. Why oh why can't they give Hiro a real challenge instead of these flimsy, manufactured ones? Nose bleeds and headaches? Puh-lease!
And HORRIBLE AWFUL BLONDE CHICK ISN'T DEAD!
I don't think they could have ended this season much worse. And yeah, I was also very ticked off about the behind closed doors battle between Peter and Syler.
Got nothing good to say about the show and yet...and yet...on the off chance that next season Hiro will come back and kick ass...
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
A Hiro that requires either Ando's power ups to be fully effective, OR requires significant rest between usages of his timey-freezy power can be usable with the plot and him not holding the Idiot ball.
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Apr 2008
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
As for ratings if I recall a week or so ago it was said that Heroes was still the highest rated show for MSNBC or whatever their network is for our demographic so I dont think its that bad. Im more willing to forgive the offscreen fights under the resumption of not having enough time.
Also, I think Ill be using Hulu to watch it now, rather then waiting for a torrent.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
quote:Originally posted by manji:
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Guys, you seriously can NOT have a remotely intelligent Hiro (or Peter) with full powers and have a plot worth speaking of at the same time. Not possible. At all. If you want the writing to improve at all you're going to have to get used to the powerful good guys being gimped.
Yes, you can. You do this by making the antagonists just as intelligent, if not more so, as the protagonists. It's just that the writers are incapable of writing such a plot.
They need Anime writers, Lelouch had a super power in Code Geass, extremely powerful by Heroes measuring stick + Crazy Prepared Xanatos Gambits.
How do they hold him back? By a combination of having the WORST LUCK IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE seriously its true the sheer number of unlikely things that happen to ruin his plans (Only for him to still win in the end) and by having competent enemies who occasionally are just as smart as he is with Mooks with powers just as powerful.
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): the only good thing about this episode was seeing Sylar at the end. In retrospect it was an obvious move and I'm ashamed I haven't thought of it...
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