FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Glee (Page 4)

  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: Glee
AvidReader
Member
Member # 6007

 - posted      Profile for AvidReader   Email AvidReader         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The guy playing Kurt's dad seriously deserves an Emmy. He has been nothing short of amazing all season, and tonight was his best performance yet.

And while I'm still not entirely convinced Shelby didn't spin the whole thing as an evil plot, her story this week did get a lot more compelling. It's possessive enough for me to buy it.

I'm honestly not sure there was anything I disliked about this episode. Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.

Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.

Glee is really getting on my nerves

Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Um guys...Glee is getting creepy. I find the whole thing between Finn and Kurt just really unsettling.

On another note - I enjoyed Santana in Bad Romance.

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.

Glee is really getting on my nerves

Just read it. I hear you. I think they were both victims in that scene, and I think Kurt's dad didn't need to be as dramatic as he was. If anyone needs a punch in the face, it's Kurt. It's not fair of him to have entrapped Finn the way he did, to set up their parents, get them to fall in love, get them to move in together, and expect to get to take peeks at Finn when he comes out of the shower. I mean, it's really creepy.

If the show wanted to make a point about it, they could have made us feel sympathetic to Kurt's crush on Finn, not have turned him into a total and outrageous stalker.

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, Santana was awesome. I'm pretty in love with her right now.

As for Kurt's dad yelling at Finn, I halfway disagree with your blog post Lisa. I can't blame Kurt's dad. Kurt doesn't know the situation. He doesn't know that his son has a crush on Finn. He doesn't know that the reason he hooked him up with Finn's mother was so he could be closer to Finn.

What he DID know was that Finn was using language that was durogatory, especially to his son. If Kurt's father had known what his son was doing to Finn, he would not have been justified.

I understand Finn was frustrated, but that still does not excuse the tantrum and language he used. If he would have sat down with Kurt and just TALKED to him instead of just keeping it all inside and exploding, I think they could have worked something out. Likewise, Kurt should have asked Finn for his input in the room. He should have made it clear that he would respect his way of life.

In your blog you gave the example of a guy in college that caught his roommate in bed with another guy, and that he slept in the hall. If the gay guy had found his roommate in bed with a girl, how would this be any different? Would the reaction of sleeping in the hallway still be justified?

I think Kurt's dad just did what any father would do, which is to protect his kid. Had he known more of what was going on he may have acted differently. Had Finn sat down with Kurt's dad and made it clear that he respected Kurt but felt uncomfortable with the situation and gave his reasons, I'm sure a compromise could have been made.

I like how Puck is growing up, but I still don't want him with Quinn. I like Finn and Quinn together too much. Quinn has grown alot over the course of the show from a stuck up cheerleader to a more mature woman.

The whole storyline with Rachel had me rolling my eyes. I really don't like Rachel, and I feel the show would be a whole lot better if she was not on the show. I don't know if it was the writer's intent to make her unbearable, but she constantly annoys me to the point that I wish she would just leave. She lacks something the rest of the cast has. I can't quite put my finger on it. Heart? Tact? Humility? A personality? Maybe a combination of those.

Good news for Glee though. It just got renewed for a THIRD season, even though the first season has not finished yet. Yipee! (More Santana and Quinn please)

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think Rachel lacks relatability. Though I am enjoying this mommy storyline, probably because I'm in love with Idina Menzel.
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shanna
Member
Member # 7900

 - posted      Profile for Shanna   Email Shanna         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree that her problem is relatability. I love quirky, out there, slightly insane characters but there has to be some human connection to keep them from just being obnoxious rather than lovable.

I think I would like her more if her character was growing and developing. Every few episodes she learns a lesson about humility, and then next week its like nothing ever happened. But that's my overall problem with Glee. Every episode feels like a stand-alone because the storyline and the characters never go anywhere. Their behavior and the plot depends entirely on the setlist for the week. There's very little consistency.

And Geraine, I agree with everything in your post!

Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Musically - Hated "Bad Romance." I think the original is frighteningly catchy, but this version was choppy and didn't seem to mesh well with the Glee style, though I will say that Santana's voice alone seemed to capture it. Furthermore, if they were going for bad high school rip-off of the music video, they succeeded. "Funny Girl" was good. I've actually never heard the song before, but I've heard of it. "Shout It Out Loud" was okay I suppose. Guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. I liked the acoustic "Poker Face" and especially liked "Beth."

Story: Yeesh. There was a lot going on this episode. Figgins thinking vampires are real was pretty funny, and actually I thought they could have done a little more with Tina's story rather than just using her as an excuse to sing Lady Gaga. They could have done something better with that.

I really think they're rushing the plot with Rachel and Shelby far, far too quickly. That was three episodes of material crammed into one. I suspect it was because of the limited time they had with Idina Menzel, but if you can't do it right, don't do it at all. I don't think it's a terribly written storyline, but I do think thus far it has been choppily executed. If the whole thing ends up being a big switcharoo and she's not really Rachel's mother, I'll stop watching the show. That doesn't seem likely, but who knows.

As for the Kurt/Burt/Finn storyline, I sort of agree with Lisa's blog link. I agree that Finn never should have sat there for the browbeating, as clearly Burt was missing many of the salient details that led up to Finn's ill-tempered outburst, and having the whole thing look like Finn was the bad guy when he had a LOT of uncomfortable, imposing, rude and thoughtless crap put on him seemed to be stretching the bounds of Glee's usual message of the week. I think Finn was a victim here. I think Kurt was also a victim. But I think portraying Finn as a bad guy because they needed to have a sympathetic character learn the lesson was a poor choice, because it totally undermined what he was going through as well. I don't think, however, that Kurt quite realized what he was doing to Finn. Finn was right, Kurt hasn't accepted that yet. Finn's not a bigot, but he's also not in love with Kurt, and Kurt hasn't been able to parse Finn's response without trying to cram him into that binary.

I'm kind of glad in a way that things aren't going quite so well for Kurt. This whole thing started because of his selfish plan to get into a relationship that was never going to happen. It seems to be working out well for their parents, who from what I can tell have had a rough life and could use some companionship, but Finn was dragged along for the ride. I don't blame Kurt's dad at all for yelling at Finn. He had limited information, and he acted on it in defense of his kid, and maybe because he thought Finn needed to hear it and he really cared about Finn not being hateful.

All in all not one of my favorite episodes. I think that the guy playing Burt Hummel did a great job with the scene, and had it been justified, it would have been a great speech. But I can't get over how wrong I think it was to make Finn out to be the bad guy when there was clearly enough evidence to show that he was a victim suffering a different kind of torment, but his victimization was not only brushed under the rug, but demonized. It's especially disappointing because I think the show has done such a great job of approaching some of these issues in the past.

Also, as far as Kurt being effeminate: I assumed that was just because Chris Colfer was sort of effeminate, and the character was written for Colfer, who impressed the casting directors so much that they created the role specifically for him.

Shanna - Totally agree with the stand-alone problem. I like stories that have plot arcs and build from episode to episode, maybe with the occasional excellent stand-alone episode, but the season thus far, with a couple exceptions, has been one disjointed mess as far as continuity goes. The only long-term storyline that really panned out was between Will and Terry. But we never got the payoff (other than one very well acted scene) in seeing how Terry dealt with it afterward. I too would like to see the lessons carry over from week to week and actually see some real growth from all the characters, rather than having to learn the same lessons over and over again.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shanna
Member
Member # 7900

 - posted      Profile for Shanna   Email Shanna         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe I'm weird but I totally read guilt in Kurt's face after his dad gave that lecture to Finn. So it was quite confusing when I didn't see the payoff.

I still hold that there's no excuse for Finn's language. He and Kurt were both victims and abusers in this episode. I think a great writing team could do something with the Kurt and Finn dynamic. Over a season we could watch them learn from each other. Kurt could use some of Finn's compassion and Finn could use some of Kurt's self-confidence. I think they could have a great brother/friend relationship.

But in the hands of the current Glee writers? I expect lots of future squicky awkwardness.

Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Phanto
Member
Member # 5897

 - posted      Profile for Phanto           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

As for the Kurt/Burt/Finn storyline, I sort of agree with Lisa's blog link. I agree that Finn never should have sat there for the browbeating, as clearly Burt was missing many of the salient details that led up to Finn's ill-tempered outburst, and having the whole thing look like Finn was the bad guy when he had a LOT of uncomfortable, imposing, rude and thoughtless crap put on him seemed to be stretching the bounds of Glee's usual message of the week. I think Finn was a victim here. I think Kurt was also a victim. But I think portraying Finn as a bad guy because they needed to have a sympathetic character learn the lesson was a poor choice, because it totally undermined what he was going through as well. I don't think, however, that Kurt quite realized what he was doing to Finn. Finn was right, Kurt hasn't accepted that yet. Finn's not a bigot, but he's also not in love with Kurt, and Kurt hasn't been able to parse Finn's response without trying to cram him into that binary.

I'm kind of glad in a way that things aren't going quite so well for Kurt. This whole thing started because of his selfish plan to get into a relationship that was never going to happen. It seems to be working out well for their parents, who from what I can tell have had a rough life and could use some companionship, but Finn was dragged along for the ride. I don't blame Kurt's dad at all for yelling at Finn. He had limited information, and he acted on it in defense of his kid, and maybe because he thought Finn needed to hear it and he really cared about Finn not being hateful.

QFT
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Launchywiggin
Member
Member # 9116

 - posted      Profile for Launchywiggin   Email Launchywiggin         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rachel's character might not be relatable to us normal people, but to ambitious type A drama queens with big dreams, I think she plays it to a T. What I mean is, she IS relatable to a small audience out there somewhere.

As for Finn/Kurt/Burt scene, I thought the acting was sensational. For a show that can totally miss nuance and subtlety, it was a good scene. As for the issue, it's preaching to the lowest common denominator here--and let's be honest--the show has been since the beginning.

Lastly, I want to comment on how much we lose in the music when it's so painfully over-produced. A phrase I heard recently is that "there's magic in the mud". Astringently auto-tuned voices don't sound like music to me--they sound like imitations of music.

Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AvidReader
Member
Member # 6007

 - posted      Profile for AvidReader   Email AvidReader         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I think that the guy playing Burt Hummel did a great job with the scene, and had it been justified, it would have been a great speech.

This. I really wish Finn's mom had come downstairs with Burt so when he told Finn he had to leave, Finn could have turned to his mom and announced, "I never wanted to live here anyway. You made me!"

The adults, who should have thought things through better, ignored every one of his protests at the beginning. They trapped him in a situation he didn't want, gave him no follow up attention that we saw, and then lost it when he flipped out. I mean, that should not have been unexpected.

At the same time, I think Burt had a point. I do think Finn's a bit homophobic beyond just the crush awkwardness. Though the most telling sentance for me was when he said he thought the kids these days just knew what it's taken him a lifetime to figure out.

I think everyone in the situation was pretty unreasonable and selfish. And I've seen enough people do obviously stupid things like that that it worked for me.

Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
As for Kurt's dad yelling at Finn, I halfway disagree with your blog post Lisa. I can't blame Kurt's dad. Kurt doesn't know the situation. He doesn't know that his son has a crush on Finn. He doesn't know that the reason he hooked him up with Finn's mother was so he could be closer to Finn.

That's not the point. The writers knew. Kurt's dad is just a fictional character. The show wanted to make a point, and they did so by demonizing a victim, and then making the victim plead guilty. Worse, there isn't any indication whatsoever that Kurt was out of line. And he was way out of line.

quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I understand Finn was frustrated, but that still does not excuse the tantrum and language he used. If he would have sat down with Kurt and just TALKED to him instead of just keeping it all inside and exploding, I think they could have worked something out.

Right. I don't know if you noticed, but Finn has "just talked" to Kurt about his inappropriateness. Kurt doesn't care. He shrugs it off and does whatever he wants to.

quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Likewise, Kurt should have asked Finn for his input in the room. He should have made it clear that he would respect his way of life.

You think?

quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
In your blog you gave the example of a guy in college that caught his roommate in bed with another guy, and that he slept in the hall. If the gay guy had found his roommate in bed with a girl, how would this be any different? Would the reaction of sleeping in the hallway still be justified?

Hell yes! Except that I've never run into that situation, and never heard of my friends in college running into it.

quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I think Kurt's dad just did what any father would do, which is to protect his kid. Had he known more of what was going on he may have acted differently. Had Finn sat down with Kurt's dad and made it clear that he respected Kurt but felt uncomfortable with the situation and gave his reasons, I'm sure a compromise could have been made.

Again, it isn't an issue of that. It's the message that the writers decided to give, which was that it doesn't matter what Kurt does. He's always okay.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
1. Finn's mother is doing a HORRIBLE job of parenting. I, actually, blame her the most. She MOVED HIM without warning, without his buy in, and clearly without even having a conversation about it. As much as Kurt schemed to put Finn in that awful situation, Finn's mother made it happen. I don't know what the writers have against mothers, but she's a miserable failure. Finn should never have been placed in that situation.

2. Kurt's dad did the right thing by defending his son, but he did a very, very bad thing by letting Finn know that Finn was nothing but unwelcome baggage that came with his mother. If they were truly equal siblings with the same rights to the house - if that was Finn's home - the conflict would not have been resolved - even if it WAS what Kurt's dad thought it was - by throwing away one of the conflicting siblings. He clearly made it known that Finn would never be anything but a barely tolerated, unwilling guest in that house. Good for defending his son, but bad, bad handling, even if he hadn't so badly misunderstood the situation.

3. Kurt is a creepy, sleazy predator. Good heck. I don't know what the writers think they are doing with him, but what they are actually doing is lending support to a whole lot of a scary, negative stories about gay guys trying to seduce or convert their straight friends despite the straight guys being polite and making it very clear there is no interest at all.

Poor Finn - you're a teenage boy, and your mother has sold you down the river for her own sex life. You lose your home, lose faith that your only living parent will consider you, and are forced to LIVE in a place where you feel and have substantial reason to believe that your roommate does not respect your clearly stated boundaries.

4. Add to that that Finn has proven his kindness to Kurt many times, and that whole story line was a tragic, lame Mary Sue fantasy fulfillment.

I don't think Kurt learned the right lesson here - respect Finn's boundaries. He mostly looked sad that he didn't get to be in Finn's company by contrivance anymore.

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
1. Finn's mother is doing a HORRIBLE job of parenting. I, actually, blame her the most. She MOVED HIM without warning, without his buy in, and clearly without even having a conversation about it. As much as Kurt schemed to put Finn in that awful situation, Finn's mother made it happen. I don't know what the writers have against mothers, but she's a miserable failure. Finn should never have been placed in that situation.

2. Kurt's dad did the right thing by defending his son, but he did a very, very bad thing by letting Finn know that Finn was nothing but unwelcome baggage that came with his mother. If they were truly equal siblings with the same rights to the house - if that was Finn's home - the conflict would not have been resolved - even if it WAS what Kurt's dad thought it was - by throwing away one of the conflicting siblings. He clearly made it known that Finn would never be anything but a barely tolerated, unwilling guest in that house. Good for defending his son, but bad, bad handling, even if he hadn't so badly misunderstood the situation.

3. Kurt is a creepy, sleazy predator. Good heck. I don't know what the writers think they are doing with him, but what they are actually doing is lending support to a whole lot of a scary, negative stories about gay guys trying to seduce or convert their straight friends despite the straight guys being polite and making it very clear there is no interest at all.

Poor Finn - you're a teenage boy, and your mother has sold you down the river for her own sex life. You lose your home, lose faith that your only living parent will consider you, and are forced to LIVE in a place where you feel and have substantial reason to believe that your roommate does not respect your clearly stated boundaries.

4. Add to that that Finn has proven his kindness to Kurt many times, and that whole story line was a tragic, lame Mary Sue fantasy fulfillment.

I don't think Kurt learned the right lesson here - respect Finn's boundaries. He mostly looked sad that he didn't get to be in Finn's company by contrivance anymore.

QFT
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!

Blech.

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lisa,

To me, it doesn't matter what the WRITERS knew. When producing a TV show, what the writers as well as the audience know is different than what the characters know. Burt's character didn't know what was going on, so his reaction was more realistic to me. If he had more information he may have reacted differently. If I had a gay son and I came downstairs and heard someone saying durogatory things to him, I'd be pretty mad and give the person a lecture as well. If I knew my son had been harassing the person, I may act differently.

Finn is probably my favorite guy character. I think he is a good kid that gets caught up in doing things that others do. Every once in a while he shows some leadership qualities. I don't think he MEANT to offend Kurt in the way he did, he was simply frustrated.

That being said I understand Finn felt trapped in the situation, but he made no effort to sit down and talk to someone about it. This episode was the first time that he even told Kurt that he noticed how he looked at him, etc. When he found out Quinn was pregnant he went to Mr. Shuster, and he has gone to him with other challenges he had been facing as well. He never made the effort to discuss the situation with Mr. Shuster, his mother, Burt, Emma, Kurt, or anyone else.

I think Kurt finally realized that he had messed up when his dad was yelling at Finn. I hope he apologizes to Finn and they can move past this. A brother/friend relationship would be good for both of them, but only if Finn doesn't have to worry about Kurt's advances.

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's "derogatory".
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry, that is one of those words that for some reason my brain cannot spell. Necessary and occur are others that give me trouble.

I apologize for offending the spelling police.

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I think Kurt finally realized that he had messed up when his dad was yelling at Finn. I hope he apologizes to Finn and they can move past this.
I was hoping that would happen by the end of the last episode, but instead, when Finn tried to talk to Kurt, Kurt acted like Finn was the bad guy, and in the end, Finn was the one who had to make the apologetic gesture. They wasted any chance for character growth on Kurt's part, and instead, forced unnecessary and I think harmful
"growth" on Finn.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It read like revenge fantasy fan fiction. I'll show that nice guy in high school who was straight despite my yearning for him to be otherwise! He'll be humiliated for not loving me despite my manipulations!
Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Emreecheek
Member
Member # 12082

 - posted      Profile for Emreecheek           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think what the writers know *is* important. Okay, Kurt's dad acted without all of the information. I thought, sure this is really over-dramatic and cheesy, but it will be over soon. And maybe we'll see Kurt explain things to his father. About how he is a gay man who is quite literally checking out his friend, who must undress near him. Finn's sexuality doesn't really matter - I'm gay, and I would not feel comfortable rooming with somebody who was blatently checking me out in that way unless it was my husband. Otherwise, it's just exploitation. It's demeaning, not to mention just a little humiliating to be on the receiving end of such objectification. Nothing in Kurt's character has led us to believe he would not be taking some kind of advantage of Finn being his roommate - Nay, Kurt orchestrated it.

But, oh yeah. So I thought the plot would then be fixed. Kurt's father would see how completely unreasonable his behavior was given the facts (Even in his ignorance, I didn't understand how kicking Finn out of the house was at all helpful... And for that matter, Kurt's dad said that he acted the same way when he was Finn's age... Why not explain to Finn what exactly made him stop using such language and why?), Kurt would realize how sexually sleazy he was being, and Finn would not arbitrarily link a "faggy" lamp to Kurt's creepiness. But no. Instead, Finn apologizes, Kurt refuses to speak to him, and then Finn makes it all better by cross-dressing. That's how what the writers know matters. They know all that we know, and yet they are deliberatly preaching a doctrine justifying horrible behavior on Kurt's part.

Say whatever you will about the plot (I'll say it's horrible), but speaking for societal implications, I'm frankly embarassed as a gay man about the whole debaucle. I believe the messege sent is horrible. Blech!

And, I really don't think Kurt's becoming a gay symbol, at least to most of my gay friends. He pretty much just represents the same upper-middle class male factor of the community that's been represented for years now, minus the sexual promiscuity (Though I believe that that's aparently only because of a lack of opportunity). My parents would have had to make about 40,000 dollars more a year while I was a teenager in order for me to relate to Kurt. Glad to see that the materialistic sterotype of the gay man is still going strong.

Which brings me to another tangential gripe: Why do all of the Lima kids have so much money? I've lived in Lima. It's not a wealthy town. Where's the working class in the show?

Posts: 196 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not convinced they ARE all wealthy. Finn's mom certainly isn't. They made a whole deal out of how they treated themselves by spraying the lawn green. Not exactly rolling in dough. Kurt's dad is a mechanic, but he's also a small business owner. I haven't seen any particular evidence as to the financial status of any of the other characters. Well, except Quinn's parents appear to be upper middle class.

By the by, how is it that Kurt's house has two and a half bathrooms, but only one bedroom for the parents, and the kids have to share the basement? That makes zero sense. Any house with that many bathrooms would have more bedrooms.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shanna
Member
Member # 7900

 - posted      Profile for Shanna   Email Shanna         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It makes sense if there's a bathroom downstairs for the basement. Kurt's dad seems pretty handy so I can't imagine he wouldn't convert a corner of the basement when they turned it into a bedroom.

On the subject of finances, blame the writers who'd rather have a fun costume budget than be consistent with the world they created. Personally, I'm still annoyed that Rachel's mom could turn out such a cool and complex costume in a matter of hours. So yeah, Kurt's dad is just a mechanic but Kurt has the kind of money to go crazy redecorating his bedroom and buying all sorts of fancy clothes.

You can't care about that nonsense when you have people breaking out in song and dance without any practicing.

Btw, we see Vocal Adrenaline practicing alot. I actually hope they kick the Glee Club's butt based on that fact alone.

Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still think it's weird. I grew up in a 950 sq foot house with one bathroom, and no basement, and even we had three bedrooms.
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The whole thing was completely contrived - it doesn't make any sense at all, especially since Finn's mom was gushing that it was twice as big as theirs. Where's the doubled square feet? A five-car garage?
Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aeolusdallas
Member
Member # 11455

 - posted      Profile for aeolusdallas   Email aeolusdallas         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.

Glee is really getting on my nerves

Wow if that's not the most hateful and flat out tasteless comment I have seen on the internet in ages.
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Synesthesia
Member
Member # 4774

 - posted      Profile for Synesthesia   Email Synesthesia         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That was a bit harsh. It's really not nice to use that particular F word. The dude was defending his son. I thought that was nice of him BUT
You really shouldn't just stick two teenage boys in the same room even if they are straight unless they want to share a room. I felt bad for Finn because he didn't have a space of his own anymore because his mother just decided to up and move, but that's no reason to call Kurt that not so nice F word that is not very polite.
Or to throw it in his direction.

Also Kurt was rather brave standing up to those jock jerks like that. Good for him.

Posts: 9938 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aeolusdallas
Member
Member # 11455

 - posted      Profile for aeolusdallas   Email aeolusdallas         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
quote:
Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!

Blech.

Oh please..Kurt is a teenager with a crush. If that makes him a predator then pretty much every male on the planet is one. The room was an ill advised peace offering. Finn gets a pass on being upset only because of the strain he has been under. He loses that pass the very second he drops the F-Bomb.
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aeolusdallas
Member
Member # 11455

 - posted      Profile for aeolusdallas   Email aeolusdallas         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:


Which brings me to another tangential gripe: Why do all of the Lima kids have so much money? I've lived in Lima. It's not a wealthy town. Where's the working class in the show? [/QB]

Kurt's father is successful, not wealthy but doing well. Mercedes family is successful as well.. Quinn's Family is well off. Finn's family is poor and is Puck's. I am not sure about Rachel's family. Clearly they could afford to pay off Rachael's mom but other than that we know nothing. We don't know anything about the rest. Out of all of them that we know about only Quinn's family could be said to have a lot of money.
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
quote:
Losing the pre-ordained lesson of the week seems to be doing wonders for them.
There was a pre-ordained lesson of the week - Kurt as the Golden Child can be a creepy stalker who lies, manipulates, and invades Finn's personal boundaries despite being told off, but it's totally okay!

Blech.

Oh please..Kurt is a teenager with a crush. If that makes him a predator then pretty much every male on the planet is one. The room was an ill advised peace offering. Finn gets a pass on being upset only because of the strain he has been under. He loses that pass the very second he drops the F-Bomb.
You don't think the situation was a little bit different than that of your average adolescent crush? He manipulated his parent and that of his crush into falling in love so he could room with his crush in order to sneak peeks at him and convince him to fall in love. Every male on the planet does that?
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Synesthesia
Member
Member # 4774

 - posted      Profile for Synesthesia   Email Synesthesia         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Uh, how can you make your dad fall in love with some dude's mom?
Posts: 9938 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You haven't seen the Parent Trap?
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Speaking of, the MONEY Kurt's dad offers Finn, which Kurt TAKES.

First, if you feel the urge to pay off a sixteen-year-old so he keeps his mouth shut and goes with the flow, then maybe you should rethink your "parenting" activities and recognize your actions suck.

Second, Finn doesn't even get the money. His bribe gets stolen by Kurt, and Kurt's dad just lets Kurt take it. Right off the bat, Finn is placed at an enormous disadvantage (nothing is his, not even that given to him), and Kurt is a raging, self-centered, entitled brat who gets away with behavior that should earn him a grounding.

Third, the room is for "the person I want you to be". That's who the room was for. That's straight from the Creepy Objectivizer's handbook.

Kurt's dad is great to Kurt, but his enormous blind spot when it comes to his son makes him a horrible, terrible step-father and pretty terrible person. Loving your own child doesn't give you a pass to make another child's life hell, especially when you have told that other kid he could trust you and you have his life in your stewardship.

[ May 29, 2010, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
The character of Kurt's dad needs a good punch in the face. What a horrible episode.

Glee is really getting on my nerves

Wow if that's not the most hateful and flat out tasteless comment I have seen on the internet in ages.
Don't take this the wrong way, but aside from your comment being a sentence fragment (which I don't mind, because I can't imagine that the part you left off was any lamer than the part you included), there was nothing hateful about what I wrote. Nor tasteless. But thanks for expressing your opinion.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zalmoxis
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for Zalmoxis           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not saying it excuses anything, but I thought that this was a rather insightful reading of the scene in question.

From TWOP:
quote:
And part of this speech is Burt feeling shame for all the times he used that word in the past, and part of it is anger that Finn is destroying his fantasy that his son could be perfectly safe in the world today.

Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I completely believe that Burt had complicated reasons for handling the situation so badly. None of it makes kicking Finn out okay. It was bad enough to change his life under Finn's protest in the first place, but to then prove that Finn's reluctance was entirely warranted was too much.

He definitely should have freaked out about the slur, but definitely should not have responded by kicking Finn out. You know what it would take to kick out a teenager? For me, arson or else abuse to little kids.

If Finn's right to the house was so tenuous that he could be kicked out over a verbal argument with a peer, then he shouldn't have been moved into the house, against his will, in the first place.

The behavior of both parents in this episode is so horrible that I have to chalk it up to terrible, contrived writing.

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well I loved last nights episode. Jesse's turn was predictable. For a second though I thought that he was serious about Rachel.

Terri just got really creepy with her flirting with Finn.

I thought the interaction between Mr. Shu and Sue was hilarious. I love Sue's journal segments.

Quinn finally got to sing again! Out of all the characters she is one of my favorites. She isn't annoying, and getting pregnant has taught her humility. She has learned to relate with the people that she once made fun of. I thought it was absolutely great of Mercedes to ask Quinn to move in with her.

I can't wait for the finale next week. Sue is a judge for regionals, and I'm up in the air whether she will try to sabotage Glee club or if she will help them win and show Will that she can be nice every once in a while. If she did Mr. Shue will owe her, and I think she would like that more than shutting down glee. Who would she torment if glee club got shut down?

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
The behavior of both parents in this episode is so horrible that I have to chalk it up to terrible, contrived writing.

Terrible, contrived, agenda-driven writing.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I went back and watched the episode, and I can see where both of you are coming from. I still think Burt reacted fairly realistically considering the information he had at the time.

It may have been agenda driven, but I thought the guy that plays Burt made it believable. I did think he was a little overboard with kicking Finn out (Where is he living now?).

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Other than Quinn's song, and a little bit at the end, that was the worst episode of the year.
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Other than Quinn's song, and a little bit at the end, that was the worst episode of the year.

AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL episode.

Glee writers make things happen with their magical pens. They don't tell stories, they force them down our throats.

Why resurrect Terri? Is there any semblance of a storyline? How ridiculously unbelievable is Shue and Sue? How cruel is it? How out of character? Jesse's turn is also out of character, based on the info we know. The whole episode was so random, and ridiculous.

Except Quinn. Love Quinn.

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Usually I let them get away with the fact that there is zero plot continuity and there's no way to guess how characters might act from week to week. But usually they all work as single stand alones, because while the plot is all over the place from week to week, usually it's consistent throughout the episode. This episode was a crazy mishmash of like eleven different plots all happening at once that had nothing to do with each other, and even taken individually made absolutely no sense. The songs didn't even match the material, except for Quinn's. Usually we criticize them for messing up the plot for the sake of the music, but this time they couldn't even mess up correctly.

I'm still holding out for something interesting from Jesse's character. What was that scene between him and Rachel's mom all about? Why lie to the mom if he didn't really have feelings for her? She was supposedly the one who orchestrated the whole thing, so what was there other than blatantly lying to the audience for shock value later? Misdirection is one thing. Discontinuity is jarring and ruins credibility. The only way to fix it now is to have Jesse actually be a triple-agent who is actually sabotaging Vocal Adrenaline to help New Directions, but I'm now left with an obvious fix, and a stay-the-course path that will ultimately disappoint me greatly.

That was just a mess. The music wasn't even good. Are the writers hanging out somewhere with a Magic Eight Ball, Plot Mad Libs, and Pandora Radio on shuffle?

Next year they KNOW they have a whole season, even TWO seasons. The first half was so good, and there have been some incredible flashes of insight and some powerful positive messages in this show, plus some great music. But it's really falling apart in these last few episodes.

Here's how to fix it:

1. Bring back Jonathon Groff as a series regular for the second season. Probably won't happen since he has a lot of stuff going on next year, but if they shot through the summer they could do it. I think he's the best actor, performer, and singer of all the guys, he's funny, and his chemistry with Lea Michelle is rightly impressive given its history, which plays out on screen.

2. Plan two seasons out ahead of time. For the sake of plot continuity, actually plan two seasons out before hand, so everything flows, actually shows an arc, and we can follow logical conclusions with a zany surprise turn here and there, rather than zany surprises being the rule, not the exception.

3. Be more judicious with theme shows. Madonna sort of worked because a lot of her songs have important messages, and the message of the week blended well, and the performances were good. Lady Gaga fell flat because, well, first off the performances mostly sucked, and second, it had nothing to do with anything, it was just an excuse to shove Gaga at us.

3b. Write your plots first, and find your songs second. Right now it seems like they're doing it the other way around. Millions of songs written for hundreds of years, I'm sure they can find appropriate ones to fit the situations they want, rather than turning the show into a contortionist act to try and pretzel the plot around the songs they think go together. Be more creative in the set list for the week. It might require a little more digging, but frankly, some of the best songs have been lesser known songs pulled out of obscurity and remade.

4. Go back to focusing on a couple characters a week. The cast is big, so there's the temptation to use every character every week. The shotgun approach isn't going to work. You can't give every character major attention every week, or it will all fall flat. They need to focus on one or two plot threads a week, consisting of a couple characters each. This week had four plots going simultaneously. Shue/Sue, Mercedes/Quinn, Terri/Finn, Rachel/Jesse, and then broader, ND/VA. With the tiny exception of Quinn's story, which I thought fit perfectly, and was done surprisingly well for what little face time it got, the rest of the stories were rushed and made no sense. Too much! If you're going to have a cast this big, and if a third of the episode is going to be taken up by music, exposition has to be doled out like gold, not candy, which is to say, carefully, because it's valuable stuff. It also pushes them to make better song choices so songs really convey a message, and don't waste time. Think of what musicals do. The best musicals have songs that propel the plot, rather than just sing a meaningless song for the hell of it. Those are also the songs that stick with us.

5. Cut back on the prepared numbers. I actually thought "Run Joey Run" was both funny and entertaining. But they can only do so many set-piece shows like that a month, let alone multiples in an episode. They also need to draw a line between High School Musical random breaking out into song in a traditional musical sense, using the choir room/auditorium for random songs to an empty audience or songs they just do for the hell of it that mean nothing at all, and those prepared numbers. Josh Schwartz said when he started the show that he didn't want it to be randomly breaking into song, but he's already broken that rule several times. I think the first was when Quinn sang "Keep me Hanging On" but I thought it really worked. Since then, it's been a mixed bag. On the other hand, while I think the random songs sometimes make no sense, sometimes they're extremely powerful. Singing "Keep Holding On" to Quinn after he breakdown was powerful. That's the kind of song choice to plot connection I want to see.

I'm losing my attachment to the characters, and if the status quo persists, the show will just be Sue's one-liners and the occasional ballad from Lea Michelle. In other words, something I don't need to watch all the way through, but rather something I can watch for 5 minutes on YouTube and be satisfied.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Are the writers hanging out somewhere with a Magic Eight Ball, Plot Mad Libs, and Pandora Radio on shuffle?


::applauds::
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teshi
Member
Member # 5024

 - posted      Profile for Teshi   Email Teshi         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm highly amused by this thread. I'm sad for you guys that the show has fallen apart, but for me it was unbelievable and random in the very first episode.

It's sort of like Lost. Lost was bad by the first season, and very bad in the second. And it lasted six seasons!

Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Armoth
Member
Member # 4752

 - posted      Profile for Armoth   Email Armoth         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It hasn't fallen apart - it's been great these past couple of episodes. It's just this past epiosde, not so much.
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theresa51282
Member
Member # 8037

 - posted      Profile for theresa51282   Email theresa51282         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still love Glee most of the time but thought this was one of the weakest episodes of the season. It had no continuity with the rest of the season. I though the Quinn/Mercedes friendship was the only good part of the episode. I am really frustrated by the Rachel/Jesse storyline. I assumed he was double crossing her from the beginning but I don't get why he would then tell Rachel's mom that he cared for her. The music this episode also didn't do much for me.

Hopefully, the season finale will be great!

Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To me the problem is they are spending too many episodes on the characters that are the least interesting.

Rachel, Finn, and Mr. Shue are just not very interesting to me. Kurt, Quinn, Artie, Tina, and Puck are more interesting characters to me. Quinn hadn't had a solo since "Keep me Hanging On" back in episode 4, and I'm glad she finally got one. Diana Agron is absolutely gorgeous and I hope they use her more. Now that Santana and Brittany are being upgraded to full cast members I hope we get some inner monologue moments next season like we have with the other characters.

Posts: 1935 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zalmoxis
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for Zalmoxis           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree, kat. I also think Kurt should have said something.

What I find interesting and also think is rather lame is that within the context of the show, getting kicked out doesn't seem to be such a big deal (and no parents are sane -- look at Rachel's mom. What an anti-climatic piece of work that was). Or rather, and this speaks to your point above, it seems to be simply a contrived plot device that the writers reflexively turn to. Look at Quinn. First she is kicked out and living with Finn. And now, apparently, she's living with Puck and his family (when did that happen? was it revealed in an earlier episode?). Or slightly different: Mr. Shue has has three different women in his apartment when he wasn't there since Teri moved out (and she was one of them). And since when does the husband get the place? In general, Glee has a weird sensibility when it comes to home-spaces.

Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
And since when does the husband get the place? In general, Glee has a weird sensibility when it comes to home-spaces.
Weird sensibility?

Sounds like they have a fair-minded sensibility. She's a blood-sucking destroyer of emotions that defrauded her husband in order to keep him loyal to her whilst inflicting grievous emotional torment, to say nothing of spending all his money on crap while barely holding down a lame, low-paying job.

And your reply is "since when does the husband get the place?" I did notice that he was still there and she wasn't, and my gut response, and the response I still feel is right, is: Damn right.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2