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Author Topic: Glee
AvidReader
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I thought they sold the house and he'd gotten an apartment?
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katharina
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Part of the uneveness of Glee is how some kids' personal issues are taken seriously and some are brushed aside. If all were taken seriously, or even if things being taken seriously was a rare thing, then the universe could sustain itself. If all the personal issues were treated callously and like a joke, then that would also be sustainable.

But instead, you have some of the students' personal issues treated with (often maudlin) reverence (Kurt, Mercedes, Quinn, Artie) and others' just-as-bad-or-even-worse personal issues treated like tissue paper that they can and should just shake off (Finn, Rachel).

What makes it even worse is that the students who have their issues taken seriously are often the source of much of pain on the part of the students who are treated callously (Mercedes, a little, and Kurt, overwhelmingly).

In the first half of the season, it was a little better and there was some better balance. In the second half of the season, it has been utterly disjointed, and it simply does not work. Either on Planet Glee kids can shake off things in a commercial break that would send most people to contemplate a ledge, or else every passing word is a gigantic event that must be examined endlessly so we cry with the victim and the perpetrators are humiliated and punished. But this one-way-for-some and another-way-for-others is bad, bad writing. Mixing the two in a single scene is atrocious writing.

The only one in the back nine that has been treated with the right balance of seriousness and amusement has been Tina, with her Goth outfits, the reasons for them, and her hilarious solution to the official condemnation of them. Possibly Artie, with his episode, although it came close to maudlin. I credit Joss Whedon for Artie's storyline in the back nine working.

And the Magical Cripples have got to stop.

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Zalmoxis
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quote:
Sounds like they have a fair-minded sensibility.
I don't think that the word "fair" can really be invoked here because the material conditions existent in the world of Glee are quite out of whack and overly dramatic . Some of that is justified -- it's a musical, after all, and all the sets are potential stages. And there's no doubt that Teri was a complete psycho. I still think, though, that the way living situations and living spaces are used in the show is inconsistent and incoherent. Sometimes you can flow with it; sometimes it's jarring. And part of the jarring aspect is that TV is an intimate medium that often relies on familiar spaces associated with certain characters and feelings. The rehearsal space has that to a certain extent (although sometimes that gets broken up by the rotating cast of musicians). The living spaces, in my personal opinion, don't.
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Amanecer
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quote:
But this one-way-for-some and another-way-for-others is bad, bad writing. Mixing the two in a single scene is atrocious writing.
All but one of the writers, producers, and directors of Glee used to be the writers, producers, and directors of Nip/Tuck. I watched that show until the insane melodrama became too much for me. I think the writers are trying to adapt their style to be lighter but they don't really know how to do it well. Everything that attempted lightness on Nip/Tuck always came off as absurd.

My personal suspicion is they'll keep the show watchable for another season before it descends in to everybody sleeps with and betrays everybody else in the style most familiar to the creators.

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Lisa
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God, that explains a lot. I was so happy when Nip/Tuck finally ended. I just couldn't help watching it, but it was so vile...

I guess that explains Jessica Gilsig.

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katharina
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Stupid, splendid, uneven show. That finale was absolutely fantastic.
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theresa51282
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I loved the finale! I especially loved the musical numbers at sectionals and the tribute to Mr Shue.
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katharina
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Hands down the coolest baby delivery ever put on screen. There were only four musical numbers, but all four of them were completely perfect. I even liked Sue Sylvester, and I've started to hate her. This was really well done.

How come it can't always be this well done? It's the same writers and director as always. So confusing!

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Shanna
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I liked all the musical numbers except Bohemian Rhapsody. I wished they'd done something creative with the song rather than just attempting to recreate it exactly. The choreography was awesome but the musical arrangement fell flat.

And what the heck are they doing with Idina's character. She reveals herself to Rachel but then wants nothing to do with her. And now she's adopting Quinn's baby?!?

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aeolusdallas
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I teared up 3 or 4 times and flat out cried when the kids sang to Mr. Shue. The finale was perfect, just perfect.
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MightyCow
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Bohemian Rhapsody was an insult to Queen. What a lame arrangement. And throwing delivery into the middle of a musical number was just odd and jarring.
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Geraine
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I also enjoyed the finale. The Bohemian Rhapsody fell flat for me. I thought it was boring. It didn't even compare to the New Direction's Journey medley.

I liked how Sue voted for New Directions as the winners. I don't know if it was because she knew it was the right choice and decision to make or if she was just mad at the other judges but that didn't matter to me. One thing that annoyed me about Sue this season as she did not seem like she had a soul. This episode made me see that she does have a little bit of goodness inside of her. I hope they explore why she is so guarded. It seems the only person she really opens up to is her sister.

Was it just me or did anyone else think it was kind of touching when the kids went around telling them what they didn't have or were like before glee club? Finn hit me especially hard when he said he didn't have a father like figure, someone who he could look up to, or someone that could show him how to be a man.

Also, Rachel was actually likable this episode, not to mention gorgeous. This was the first episode that I was actually happy when she spoke.

The scene with Quinn's mother was awkward. I was actually hoping Quinn would tell her mother to get the hell out. I was happy that she wanted Mercedes to go with her to the hospital. Since becoming pregnant Quinn has done a lot of growing up. When I watch earlier episodes and compare them to these last few, she is a completely different person.

Puck seems to be growing up a bit more too. I think he and Quinn will have a full fledged relationship in the next season.

And how about Mr. Shue and Emma? I thought that part was a little unbelievable. They don't have any interaction for several episodes, then all of the sudden..BAM!! I love you!

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aeolusdallas
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
Bohemian Rhapsody was an insult to Queen. What a lame arrangement. And throwing delivery into the middle of a musical number was just odd and jarring.

Wow talk about missing the point......
They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
I liked all the musical numbers except Bohemian Rhapsody. I wished they'd done something creative with the song rather than just attempting to recreate it exactly. The choreography was awesome but the musical arrangement fell flat.

I think that was the point. No originality. No soul.

quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
And what the heck are they doing with Idina's character. She reveals herself to Rachel but then wants nothing to do with her. And now she's adopting Quinn's baby?!?

She said she didn't want to be in contact with Rachel because it hurt too much to know that she missed all the years she was growing up. She'll have that with Beth.

But... now Rachel's adopted sister's mother is her classmate. That's kind of weird.

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Lisa
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That's my absolute favorite version of Over the Rainbow.
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Lyrhawn
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I'm not a huge Journey fan, but they did okay with it. The Queen stuff sucked, but it was supposed to. In general it wasn't the right music for Groff's voice. But I think Bohemian Rhapsody against Quinn giving birth was excellent, and I loved that.

"To Sir with love" and "Over the Rainbow" were both beautiful, easily in my top 10 songs for the season. In general they tugged pretty hard on the heart strings in this episode, and most of it felt natural, rather than forced or contrived.

I like that Sue didn't totally crack, but they showed that she had a heart, and wasn't really out to really destroy these kids emotionally. Also I like that she played it off as desiring another year to make fun of Will's hair (love the joke this ep, btw, not as good as the elves in his hair joke, but funny).

Everyone grew up a little bit in this episode, and the music at the end was beautiful, on the nose, and touching.

Way to make up for a couple weeks of crap. Honestly I had a real sour taste in my mouth after the last couple weeks, and this sent me out on a high note.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
That's my absolute favorite version of Over the Rainbow.

Agreed. I like the original, but the Israel Kamakawiwo'ole version is absolutely beautiful in my opinion.
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katharina
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I don't like Bohemian Rhapsody in the first place, so I have no opinion about Vocal Adreniline's performance of it, but I love that it was intercut with the delivery. Perfect - I laughed out loud when she started screaming at Puck when Jesse was screaming in the song.
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Lisa
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When they started To Sir With Love, I knew I recognized the song, but I couldn't think of the title. When they got to it, I teared up a little.
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Lyrhawn
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I'd never heard it before, but it's a great song, and I really liked their version of it, and I thought it was well timed for what was going on. Very much perfect for what was happening.
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MightyCow
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quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
Wow talk about missing the point......
They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly

My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.

I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.

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aeolusdallas
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
When they started To Sir With Love, I knew I recognized the song, but I couldn't think of the title. When they got to it, I teared up a little.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7gBpkp3aHA&playnext_from=TL&videos=nkwsatMNbm8

quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
Wow talk about missing the point......
They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly

My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.

I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.

Except that it didn't suck. It was technically perfect with amazing choreography but it had no emotion. As for the birth sure it was weird but good weird not bad weird and blended perfectly with Jessie singing Bohemian Rhapsody.
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Armoth
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I hated the finale. Thought the writing was awful. The plots made no sense, things randomly happen on thes how just bc the writers want them to. It's like bad DMing.

I loved Bohemian Rhapsody - maybe because I was blown away by Jesse, and wasn't blown away by Journeys medley. I also loved the choreography for Bohemian.

I also think it's sick that Idina adopted the baby.

It's just that the show has so much potential.

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MightyCow
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If you think that was technically perfect, you need to listen to Bohemian Rhapsody again [Smile]
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Lisa
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Okay, there was no cymbal at the end. And there were one or two other very minor issues. But it was *extremely* close. None of the differences were anything you could call "creative".
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Geraine
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My ONLY wish for next season:

A Dave Matthews number.

The show could suck next season, but if I could hear Puck sing "Bartender," Finn sing "Crush," or even Mr. Shue sing "You and Me" to Emma, I would declare this the greatest show to ever hit Fox. Sorry Dollhouse and Firefly. I love me some Dave.

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Lyrhawn
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Blasphemy! Though shalt not poison my beloved Dave Matthews Band by allowing the Lords of Karaoke on Glee to defile it!

Having said that, if any of them are going to sing a Dave number, Puck is probably the best suited to it.

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katharina
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Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.

It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".

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Armoth
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Hm. I'm still waiting for Coldplay.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.

It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".

"You and Me" is a DMB song off one of their recent albums. It's either Stand Up or Big Whiskey.
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Shanna
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
Wow talk about missing the point......
They are soulless automatons. Technically perfect with no heart. The birth interspaced was brilliant and contrasted the performance perfectly

My point is that it sucked. I'm not talking about the motivations of characters, I'm saying that I didn't enjoy listening to the song, as part of a show that I watch for the music.

I still think it was creepy and weird putting a delivery in the middle of a song.

I agree. Being soulless doesn't mean that the group lacks creativity. Vocal Adrenaline's version of Winehouse's "Rehab" is still my favorite performance on the show to date. For me, its the one arrangement that feels like its really being sung by a show choir, not just a lead singer with a group doing backup vocals.
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Lyrhawn
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I agree that Rehab was one of my favorite numbers. I think they were a lot better at group numbers in the first half of the season, when they sung stuff like "Keep Holding On." Even that was more or less headlined by Finn and Rachel, but 90% of it was group singing, and it was powerful because of it. KHO was also the last time I really remember liking Kurt. I loved the way he seemed to sympathize so strongly with Quinn and I liked how the group as a whole were supporting her. The only other two moments in the entire show where I felt like they were really a group like that was when they sang "My Life Would Suck Without You" and at the end with "To Sir With Love." And two of those were finale numbers. It seems like as the show went on, it became mostly solo performances, or songs where one or two people sang and the rest of the club was backing vocals.

While I love a lot of the individual numbers, "Rehab" and "Keep Holding On" are still two of my favorite songs from S1.

I doubt that will change much in the next season.

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Armoth
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What about "Somebody to Love"?

I remember the end of the pilot, after listening to "Don't Stop Believing" - I knew that this was a show I was interested in watching. it was such a powerful, pumped up, rendition - and I didn't get that again until episode 5 with "Somebody to Love."

That's still my favorite song of the season.

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Lyrhawn
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That's in my top ten. But that falls I think closer to the category of Finn/Rachel duet with glee backing, than it does a true group number. I liked it a lot too.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
Isn't "You and Me" an R.E.M. song? That is one of my all-time favorite songs, and even having it sullied can't extinguish how much I love it.

It is within the realm of possibility that both bands have a song called "You and Me".

"You and Me" is a DMB song off one of their recent albums. It's either Stand Up or Big Whiskey.
Its Big Whiskey. And R.E.M. has a song named the same thing, but it is completely different [Smile]
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Lyrhawn
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Yeah I thought it was Big Whiskey but didn't feel like checking. It's not a bad song, but it's nowhere near my favorite off that album. It's probably the most radio friendly though.
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Geraine
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Looks like they cast the guy that is going to play Kurt's boyfriend.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/marc_malkin/b196602_kurts_glee_boyfriend_tall_blonde_with.html

Chord Overstreet. I didn't recognize him but I guess he was on iCarly for a while. Apparently he will be in both Glee and Football. He will start out as a friend to Finn but soon becomes his rival.

I also read on Ausiello that the third episode is going to have a life/death situation that one of the main characters is involved in, and that it may involve Kurt and his father.

There is also talk that the situation between Kurt's dad and Finn will be resolved in the first few episodes. Hopefully this means Finn and Kurt's dad will apologize to each other.

New season starts on September 21 at 8 pm.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
There is also talk that the situation between Kurt's dad and Finn will be resolved in the first few episodes. Hopefully this means Finn and Kurt's dad will apologize to each other.

To each other? What on earth did Finn do?
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Itsame
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Well, he did call Kurt a fag.
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Lisa
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Actually, no, he didn't. He referred to the stuff Kurt had decorated the room with as "faggy".
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Amanecer
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Finn was attacking Kurt and used "faggy" to be hurtful. I think an apology is certainly necessary. I'm not so certain that Kurt's dad needs to apologize.
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Lisa
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Even if Finn owes an apology to Kurt (and I don't agree; he was not attacking Kurt; he was reacting to a perceived attack on himself), he most certainly doesn't owe one to the man who threw him out. As far as Kurt's dad is concerned, he is either incredibly clueless, or he was fine with Kurt's sexual harassment of Finn. Either way, he owes Finn a huge apology.
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Lyrhawn
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Actually, I think they all owe each other an apology, but Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.

The dad didn't really know what was going on and leaped to his son's defense. Fair enough, but next time get the facts before you go on the attack, that's what he owes him an apology for. That was a biting attack, and without getting the facts he was summarily dismissed. Big no-no.

Finn WAS hurtful to Kurt, whether he was justified or not. I think he owes him an apology, regardless of his reasons (which I actually think were somewhat justified, but it was rude all the same).

Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling the writers of the show don't agree with you.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Kurt however owes everyone the biggest apology. He engineered this entire endeavor to fulfill his own fantasies, without any regard for Finn's feelings, and then Finn got stuck holding the bag. An apology between Finn and Burt will do next to nothing for me. They were both collateral damage from Hurricane Kurt.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling the writers of the show don't agree with you.
I think you are right Lisa. I hope though that they use some tact when resolving the situation.

If they have Kurt go to his dad and explain the situation and that he was pursuing Finn a little too much and his dad then went and apologized to Finn, I would be ok with that. I REALLY hope they don't have Finn go to Burt and act like he was the one that was completely wrong, but sadly that is probably how it will play out. I don't agree with what Finn said, but after watching the episode a few more times I began to agree more and more with Lisa's view.

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katharina
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That is EXACTLY how it is going to be played out - Finn will grovel and Kurt will get off scott free and be covered with sunshine and ponies.

Ryan Murphy has said in interviews that he will give Kurt the high school experience he wishes he had. Great - the biggest Mary Sue in the world, as written by someone who is still snivelling about high school.

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Amanecer
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quote:
Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.
I agree with this. Kurt was way out of line. I don't think that the dad was. If he knew all of the facts, perhaps the rhetoric should have been toned down. But in essence he was saying he wanted an emotionally safe environment for his son and he felt that the current situation wasn't providing that. I don't disagree.

Admittedly, the environment was not emotionally safe for Finn either. But Finn chose a very poor way to handle the situation.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
That is EXACTLY how it is going to be played out - Finn will grovel and Kurt will get off scott free and be covered with sunshine and ponies.

Ryan Murphy has said in interviews that he will give Kurt the high school experience he wishes he had. Great - the biggest Mary Sue in the world, as written by someone who is still snivelling about high school.

QFT
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:
Kurt needs to apologize more than anyone, to Finn.
I agree with this. Kurt was way out of line. I don't think that the dad was. If he knew all of the facts, perhaps the rhetoric should have been toned down. But in essence he was saying he wanted an emotionally safe environment for his son and he felt that the current situation wasn't providing that. I don't disagree.

Admittedly, the environment was not emotionally safe for Finn either. But Finn chose a very poor way to handle the situation.

Finn did chose a poor way to handle the situation, but it was because he was trying to be nice. He should have told Kurt in no uncertain terms, "Hit on me one more time, and you'll find out what hitting is." But he didn't want to hurt Kurt's feelings. And because of that, Kurt kept at him and at him, and then pulled that incredibly inappropriate room redesign, and Finn just lost it. Sometimes, being nice instead of honest just makes things worse in the long run.
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