posted
This is why you can't have a thread with only minor spoilers about ASOIAF. What you don't say is as much a spoiler as what you do say. I can't think of any way to respond to Lyrhawn and adenam without contributing to the problem. I'll just say, enjoy the ride .
Glad to see some new people enjoying the series. When you get to book 3 feel free to bump my spoiler thread (or start your own, that one is a little dated). It starts getting spoilers for book 4 near the end of it once we've read that far.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I'm 150 pages into ACoK and chugging along. Feels weird getting used to new characters.
I'd be further if I didn't have so much assigned reading for classes, but I'm hoping to be caught up to Feast for Crows by this time next week.
Thanks everyone for not dropping any spoilers. I'm dying to know what happens, but I want to find out as I was meant to. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I, for one, am eagerly anticipating your reactions, Lyr. When I see new ASOIAF readers, it makes me wish I'd not read them so I could have the first-time experience all over again, because it is awesome.
Now, I'll stop, because I really want to say why... Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I was just talking to someone at work yesterday about how sad I am sometimes when I finish an awesome series, because the first-time experience is something you can never have back. She joked that I should write down all my reactions in a blog.
Now I'm seriously considering it.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I would love to see that. I'm always curious how many people pick up on some of the really popular big fan theories on their first read-through, versus how many don't notice until subsequent reads or after people have pointed out clues to them.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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The URL was supposed to be a play on The West Wing, but, in hindsight I wish I would have made it the same name as the blog.
Anyway, feel free to read. The first post on there is both my up to date guesses and predictions, feelings on the characters, and a tiny bit of character analysis. I'm still in awe of how complex the plot is, and how many threads there are at any given time.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I've posted a couple of updates since creating the blog if anyone is interested. Also, I'd be interested to hear whatever spoiler-free responses people have to what I've written. Or, if they're all full of spoilers, keep them in your back pocket until I catch up.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Either that or I start rooting for the bad guys.
Man, I can't wait until you've read enough of the series to know why this made me laugh aloud.
Oh man. That was hilarious.
I also liked the talk about hope when speaking to people who have only read A Game of Thrones. So great.
Wow, though. Talking about this series is really hard. I kinda feel like I should stay out of it, for I am afraid I will spoil some dramatic piece. Like from the second book. Or the third. Ahh, the third.
Anyway, I am now going to read Lyr's blog! I'll respond in a hopefully non-spoilery way afterwards.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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After reading your most recent blog, I'll say this. Please, please, please keep doing this. I want to see your reactions on future events so very much now.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I've got a rather silly grin on my face right now, after reading your most recent reactions, Lyr. I'd tell you why, but, well, I want to see your reaction when you get there. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I think I need to re-read the books. I have a terrible memory so I don't feel like I can comment on anything. I never read A Feast for Crows, though, because you all convinced me I'd be very frustrated if I did (because some of the storylines I cared most about supposedly aren't even touched on). Still waiting for the next book to come out first. Do you think if I start re-reading the series from the beginning that will hurry along book 5?
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: I think I need to re-read the books. I have a terrible memory so I don't feel like I can comment on anything. I never read A Feast for Crows, though, because you all convinced me I'd be very frustrated if I did (because some of the storylines I cared most about supposedly aren't even touched on). Still waiting for the next book to come out first. Do you think if I start re-reading the series from the beginning that will hurry along book 5?
I'm starting to fear "A Feast for Crows" only because I'm already frustrated. If people are telling me that it gets worse as the story goes on, I'm going to pull my hair out over the next 2,000 pages. Hurry up and re-read and maybe I'll have someone to read the fourth book with who can share my misery.
I'm updating every 100 pages or so, so there's anywhere from one to two updates per day. Some are shorter than others, depending on how flabbergasted and speechless those particular 100 pages have left me. The last 100 were a doozy.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I think that Feast gets a bad rap not because of what's in it, but because of what's not.
Lyr and Uprooted: It's not a real spoiler to tell you that Feast was created by breaking up the original fourth book, which was slated to be Dance (or, if it's a spoiler, it's one you should know going in, because realizing this halfway through would just be really infuriating). The way Martin split it, several key, favorite point of view characters are wholly absent. It focuses on certain areas of the world, and ignores others. Since many of the absent characters are fan-favorites, lots of fans were sorely disappointed.
Personally, I quite enjoyed Feast. But Storm is amazing at any rate, so you have that to look forward to. Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Oh, yeah, and Lyrhawn. Regarding Jon's mother: One of the most popular fan theories is actually based solely on scenes in the first book. There are of course other theories, and other possible hints in other books, but... yeah. When you've finished the fourth one, you may want to go back and read through the first one again. ...And then all the others again.
See, I doubt this will be a spoiler, but I won't go too deep in details anyway:
The fourth book is technically only half of the fourth book. Only half of the characters are in it. And in fact, some of the characters are new ones, sometimes only getting a single chapter each!
However, the new ones tend to be grouped by location, showing us the important events that are happening in parts of Westeros we don't normally see, through the eyes of various players.
In fact, pretty much the entire book is filled with the "B" plots, while the "A" plots wait for book 5.
Now, I liked the B plots. A bunch of characters who don't normally get a lot of face time get tons here. Granted, one of them seems to go nowhere fast, which is honestly suitable for the character. However, the ending of that particular arc is a painful cliffhanger that will potentially give us a look into a group I really, really want to see. And yet which horrifies me at the same time. (Can anyone guess which one I mean yet?)
I fear I'll give actual plot away if I continue speaking. It's just that Davos and Theon and so on aren't the last of the new additions to the cast of viewpoint characters.
Though I doubt it's a spoiler now to say that whoever is the viewpoint character of the prologue dies, regardless of the book.
Anyway. I liked A Feast for Crows. It gave me some characters I liked' one or two that I loved so much I wish they'd get their own novel, which I guess this is, so wish granted; some insight into the wider world (yes! You get an even wider look!) and a strong sense of the repercussions of what everybody's done.
Also, I get to enter the mindset of somebody worse than Theon. And it is marvelous how Martin, who usually makes me love, or at least care about, the people whose skin he puts us in, makes me hate this one particular character even more now that I see their mind. It is an alien and terrible place and its attraction is something like a trainwreck, and makes that viewpoint perhaps the second most fun in the book.
All in all, A Feast for Crows lacks the really exciting bits. Even the preview bits I've read for A Dance For Dragons are exciting. That's where the real action is, and where the most interesting characters are. It pains me how much I look forward to it. But A Feast for Crows was good. It just focused on characters other than the ones I wanted!
---
As for the mother thing: As for the most popular theory, think about how the term "bloody bed" is used, and go back to A Game of Thrones. That is all. You'll have to work for this one.
Hey, everyone else? Was I vague enough in my positive review of A Feast for Crows? If I'm not, tell me and I'll edit it immediately!
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
<insert massive coughing attack that may or may not be covering up spoilers here>
The second half of Feast was possibly the second-best half-book in the series, with the back half of Storm taking the cake for many, many awful and wonderful reasons. Considering that all my favorite characters bar one were in Feast, I'm actually very, very satisfied with it. In fact, I may have to dig it out again and reread it.
0Megabyte, two things: First, your review was vague enough that I had to think very hard about what you were discussing - totally spoiler-free! Second, I completely agree about the worse-than-Theon character. Getting inside this character's head was a total trainwreck, but an amazing one. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
I'm glad, Carrie. I was doing my best to not spoil!
Now, as I said, my favorite character in the entire series is pretty much the headliner of A Feast for Crows, so I was very happy. I was honestly very surprised when that person became my favorite, as I never, ever would have guessed it beforehand. But still, yay!
Second: Yeah, that worse-than-Theon character was someone I also never would have imagined I would like. And I still can't imagine how I would. I mean, wow. I can see where they're coming from now, and I actually understand what makes them tick and do the thing they do. But unlike with Theon, for whom sympathy ameliorates my distaste somewhat, understanding how this person ticks just makes me hate them worse!
---
Also, I was reading the current sample chapter from A Dance with Dragons, and it looks very, very interesting. As it is one of the characters not shown in A Feast for Crows, I got a reminder about how tense and nearly hopeless the character's situation was. At least, until the end of this chapter, where a new path I hadn't anticipated presented itself... I guess I should have seen it coming, but I have honestly no idea how it'll turn out. Even saying anything is a spoiler, but man I want to talk about that scene.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I just poured my heart out in two final blog entries for the book, and I have nothing left to give. Now I have an inkling as to why hope seemed like such an amusing concept to people a little while ago. ::sigh::
I will say though, that I feel like I understand Theon a lot more. And while on a purely analytical level I appreciate that, if I ever met him in real life, I'd still beat him senseless, throw him in The Chair, and pull the damned switch myself.
I'll probably start tackling A Storm of Swords in the next day. Against my better judgment.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Now I have an inkling as to why hope seemed like such an amusing concept to people a little while ago. ::sigh::
No you don't.
Actually, yeah, you do have an inkling. It's just fun to tease.
This series is great. But after reading your last post, I know that you know what you're getting yourself into. The third book probably the best of them so far. It's truly a great story. But it's also the middle of the story.
It's like, there are stories that get so dark and so depressing, that I feel like it's impossible for there to be an ultimately sad ending. Granted, when it gets too dark, bittersweet may be the best you can go. But a series where things go well and truly to their darkest possible points honestly earn that happy ending. Or an ending that makes you cry both for the grief of the loss as well as the joy of the success.
Call me an optimist. Because even though winter is coming, springwill come again.
At least, I believe it will. It has to, right? It must...
posted
I'm actually a little depressed. Blogging it out helped a little, but not much. You know normally people would react to something like this by saying "it can't get any worse," but after having most everything I cared about in the book methodically destroyed, I only expect it to get worse, as I discover there really are things left to care about, only to have them destroyed as well. It kind of weirds me out that I've gone from "wow I hope so and so is okay" to "I hope so and so dies!"
And yet I hope... Damn, sometimes it sucks being an optimist.
I'm looking forward to, some day, figuring out the business with Jon's mother.
I'll soldier on through ASoS now, though much more guardedly. At the very least, if Martin is going to fill the books with characters that are so easy to hate, it'll be nice if they're actually somewhat complicated. The Lannisters as a whole feel pretty one dimensional, except Tyrion, who's the most complex of them all maybe. Theon even had complexity to him, which was impressive given his limited screen time. It made his evil all the more hateable. So if we're going to go dark in the third book, then take me all the way, but I don't just want to be jerked around, I want my mind blown.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Lyr: There will be things left to care about. Even when things are at their darkest, there will still be things left to save.
I want you to know that. All the joking aside, you have to know that though things will never be back to normal, and what's lost can never be brought back, there will still be things of value in the end.
Of course, the series isn't done yet. Martin could always magick everyone back to life, and fix what's been destroyed. But I can't believe he would. He has too much integrity, and he's put too much into this world to reset it with some cheap deus ex machina.
But yeah, to reiterate: There will be things left to care about, and left to hope for, even when things are at their worst. Of course, you're going to find yourself surprised at what some of those things turn out to be...
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Btw, everyone who has read this series should read this blog. Lyr here gives beautiful voice to many things. It's a great read.
Also, in response to your suppositions: Yes. Rhaegar was married. But even so... why does it have to be rape? I can't say more, but I have no evidence supporting this, so it really isn't a spoiler. Just throwing it out there, is all.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: It kind of weirds me out that I've gone from "wow I hope so and so is okay" to "I hope so and so dies!"
That was an odd transition, this is true. And really, since so many other people have died, I find happiness and glee in that favored characters still live (that's not really a spoiler, since there wouldn't be books without living characters... ).
Honestly, I am really, really anxious to read your reactions to The Big Event in ASOS. There are number of fabulous things that happen, but The One Thing That Happens is just... unreal.
Thanks again for sharing your reactions, Lyr!
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Also, in response to your suppositions: Yes. Rhaegar was married. But even so... why does it have to be rape? I can't say more, but I have no evidence supporting this, so it really isn't a spoiler. Just throwing it out there, is all.
Good point, they could have fallen in love while she was a captive. That actually makes a bit more sense. Why else would she plead so hard with Ned to take care of the child when under normal circumstances Ned would likely want to destroy it? Also, it'd be kind of nice to see Targaryens as something other than boogeymen. It was Papa Targaryen that killed Brandon and Rickard, not Rhaegar, who could have fallen for Lyanna and then she died in childbirth.
Did it ever say how Lyanna felt about Robert Baratheon? I know Robert and Eddard talk at length at times in the first novel about how Robert loved him, and how much he hates Cersei in comparison, but I never remember it actually saying that the feeling was mutual.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I want you to know that. All the joking aside, you have to know that though things will never be back to normal, and what's lost can never be brought back, there will still be things of value in the end.
posted
Gosh, this is making me want to re-read the series. I have a terrible time remembering plot lines, so there are lots of things that people are hinting at that I can't remember. I don't want to invest the time in it, though, until there's at least a real release date for the next book.
posted
Lyr: Well, to be honest, what it says about Lyanna is that for all of Robert's dramatic love for her, she still knew the kind of guy he was. In other words, he probably would have cheated on Lyanna just as much as he did on Cercei, and Lyanna knew it.
Also. You'll get your wish, as for Targaryens not looking like boogeymen, in the third book. At the same time, you'll learn more than you want to know about Aerys, and perhaps feel a little more sympathy for Viserys. Not that he was any less of a total creep than he was.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Oh I remember that now, about Lyanna and Robert.
I've already plowed into the third book. Getting off to an interesting start. I think choosing Jaime as a character to focus on is going to bring some really eye-opening results.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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To respond to your talk about women: I honestly can't say these are weak women. They're all flawed. They all have moments of weakness. But they aren't the only ones. You've already seen Jon try to abandon his obligations, Davos broken, Tyrion make mistakes out of love, Theon lose it, etc.
These are all flawed people who make mistakes all the time, and allow their emotions to get the best of them from time to time. They react to bad things that happen to them, and to stress, in ways that are definitely not optimal, but ways that are human and believable.
The characters are all different from each other. They all have differing beliefs, mindsets, values and even temperament.
The women may be flawed. They definitely are. But man, they are no less flawed than everybody else!
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I agree completely. I was talking with Raia about the novels and her complaint was that Martin didn't know how to write women. I totally see what her problems were with the women, but I think the problem is that Martin wasn't writing ideal women, any more than he was writing ideal men. I think it's incredibly strange that we've fallen into a pattern of putting women into binaries: strong/weak, feminine/masculine, mothering/not mothering, etc. The feminist lens seems to break women down this way, and I don't think it's fair to the characters, because women are just as complex as men, and sometimes more so, especially in these novels where the cares and concerns of men and women are so clearly placed into separate spheres. It's the rush to judge women as either weak or strong that causes this I think. But these are incredibly complex women, who are sometimes strong, and sometimes weak, sometimes emotional, and sometimes hard. And really, no different from any of the men in that respect.
Edit to add: I posted my first entry about Storm of Swords. I'll be moving through it at the same pace as the last one most likely, there will be a post or two every day, every 100 pages or so.
posted
Hey, Lyr? Reading your newest post, and... um... about the Knight of Flowers... that isn't knightly duty that's got him so upset... yeah.
How to put it delicately. Think back. At how much closer Renly was to Loras than to Margaery, his wife...
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Hmmm, I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the women in the books. They seemed as naturally written as any others to me. Well, Sansa's a bit too foolish, but she's the most unbelievable character in the story to me.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Hey, Lyr? Reading your newest post, and... um... about the Knight of Flowers... that isn't knightly duty that's got him so upset... yeah.
How to put it delicately. Think back. At how much closer Renly was to Loras than to Margaery, his wife...
Yeah, you'll catch that in my next post. I didn't pick up on it immediately, but I got it eventually.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I havent read crows yet. But Asha seems like an awesome character.
Actually what I might do, since crows and dragons are supposed to happen at the same time, is alternate between a dragons and a crows chapter every time.
posted
Also: About your "intervention" for Dany. Don't worry, things pick up fast for her. I dare say some of the more... cinematic... moments in the series happen under her watch. Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I was hoping that it would head in that direction. My intervention is temporarily suspended pending the progression of her plot line, which appears to be developing into a very interesting story. I'm quite turned around on Dany as far as plot goes. I'd like to see more done with her character at the moment though. She's not as complex as the others.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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