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Author Topic: Glee Season 2
Lisa
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Uh. Well, Rachel is even more horrible than she was last year. I guess that counts as a kind of character growth. And... I guess having a girl with Down Syndrome being mean and obnoxious like Sue is kind of a strike for equality (of meanness), I thought it was kind of distateful.

And Brittany is as clueless as ever. <sigh>

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Stephan
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I was more upset that no one was added. I assume the football player will join eventually.
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Synesthesia
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Sue had the best funniest lines.
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Lisa
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I think I'm going to start a new category, called Second Worst Person of the Week (Sue has Worst Person of the Week sewn up as a regular thing).

This week's Second Worst Person of the Week award goes to Rachel Barry.

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katharina
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I have figured out Glee and why it is so crappy at times.

It is a Saturday morning cartoon. Every single episode resets back to zero, and the characters all go back to their one characteristic. The lessons they learn are the same lessons every single time, because they all have amnesia. There are no character arcs - it's a Saturday Morning Cartoon. There is no logical flow to the story - cheap Sat. cartoon. You can drop in at any episode and not only are the characters in the same place, but they are learning the same lessons they learned in every other episode. It's just a cartoon.

I'm glad it didn't win the Emmy. It doesn't deserve.

It is a Sat. morning cartoon with fun singing and dancing, so I'll keep watching it. I have started muting the non-singing parts. I've seen that episode before. All of them.

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Stephan
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
(Sue has Worst Person of the Week sewn up as a regular thing).


Not in season one's finale though. I give that to the other two celebrity judges.
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Raymond Arnold
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I actually kinda liked the down syndrome girl being mean. Maybe that makes me a bad person, dunno. I thought it was more... perhaps not more tasteful, but at least more interesting than the Family Guy episode. In this case, the girl was literally being coached by Sue who was the one person who's given her respect so far, so it made perfect sense, and I suspect there will be at least a LITTLE more interesting development there. (Though in general I agree with kath's Satuday Morning Cartoon analysis).
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
I think I'm going to start a new category, called Second Worst Person of the Week (Sue has Worst Person of the Week sewn up as a regular thing).

This week's Second Worst Person of the Week award goes to Rachel Barry.

I'd say it should go to that stupid kid in a wheelchair who made his friend go into the locker room with him and ask his coach if he could play on the team.

Then of course since he didn't get on the team which even a five year old could predict was going to happen, his friend loses his hard earned seat on the team for embarrassing the coach in front of the players. Then to top it all off, it appears wheelchair boy didn't even feel the need to apologize for screwing up his friends life. Oh wellz!

Leaving that aside, that was possibly the most ridiculous way to get the character off the football team and into glee club full time.

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msquared
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I am not sure what it is, but I find Brittany hot. [Smile]

I have no idea why she is not pregnant yet.

msquared

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MattP
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It can't hurt to keep trying!
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Lyrhawn
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Add to that the fact that Artie lost his girlfriend because he was being a total jerk to her, and that was the pretext for using Finn to get on the team, and thus Finn losing his position.

In other words, Artie was a pretty big douche in the first episode.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by msquared:
I am not sure what it is, but I find Brittany hot. [Smile]

I have no idea why she is not pregnant yet.

Um... 'cause she likes girls. Duh.
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Geraine
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My favorite lines were all from the beginning. Jacob had some awesome one liners, but the best one was Brittany.

"People thought that I went on vacation this summer, but really I was just lost in the sewers."

Oh yeah, I hate Rachel too. I wish Cherise would have stuck around, I think her voice is amazing.

I REALLY felt bad for Coach Biest, especially when she was crying in the locker room. I thought she went overboard with Finn, but I could actually see someone reacting that way in the real world. I feel bad that Finn once again got dumped on, but hopefully Coach Biest will let him back on the team now that her and Schuster have made nice.

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Lyrhawn
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I'll say this, Britney was amazing at doing Britney. I'm not surprised they gave her the dance heavy numbers since she was a dance instructor for the show originally, but I thought she nailed them.

Yeah, but other than that? The episode sucked. Maybe the worst ever.

Next week looks heavy.

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Shanna
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I vote for a Brittany spin-off. She can dance and then made cute one-liners into the camera.

Seriously, that's the only reason I'm still watching. Oh, and I'd like to hear Santana sing more.

Otherwise, even characters I loved before are becoming annoying. It used to be that I couldn't stand Rachel, Finn, or Schuester and whenever they weren't on camera things were mostly enjoyable. But now I find myself hating Artie and Kurt, while wondering what happened to Mercedes (if she's getting any lines I must be missing them.)

And the producers in the recording studio need to step away from all the pretty buttons and sliders. It'd be nice if the show choir sounded even alittle bit like a real choir, with harmonies and all that good stuff.

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Lyrhawn
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It looks like next week will have an honest to goodness ensemble piece.
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Synesthesia
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Brittany is so funny. She says weird things in a dead pan voice. It cracks me up.
Also it's funny what Sue said "it's a Britney Sex riot"

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Carrie
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I actually watched the two numbers where Britney was being Britney - I've not watched a musical number since "Somebody to Love," which was a long, long time ago. Holy crap, she can dance! I am still impressed with her. Now if only she did more on the show...
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Lyrhawn
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Well, Heather Morris' original attachment to the show was as a dance instructor to teach Kurt and the others how to do the Beyonce dance for "Single Ladies." She has a background heavy in dance. She lucked into a background role as the third cheerleader and earned her way up to being a series regular. It's nice to see her get a chance to really shine. You should see a lot more of her, relative to last season (so many character, only so many minutes and songs), now that she is a regular.

I was very impressed with her this episode, but I felt that everything but her fell very, very flat.

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msquared
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I heard that she almost made the top 20 in season 6 of SYTYCD. Missed it by just that much.

msquared

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Geraine
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I agree. Brittany was great this episode, and to a lesser extent Finn. Kurt, Rachel, Will, and Artie are annoying me to no end though.

How immature is it that Will is trying to copy the dentist because he thinks it will somehow help him get Emma back? This isn't the same guy from the first season. The first episode he treats Coach Biest like garbage, then the second episode he acts like one of his students. It is getting pretty lame.

I am really happy Coach Biest is giving Finn and Artie a chance on the football team. She is probably my favorite character so far this season. She is the only character this season that comes across as someone that could actually exist in the real world. I think the reason may be because she actually has a heart.

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Lisa
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This week's Third Worst Person of the Week award goes to Rachel Barry (any time Terri is on the show, the award gets bumped down to Third, since Sue and Terri always tie for first place). Trying to manipulate Finn into quitting the team that she knows means so much to him, having Quinn test him, particularly when she knows that Quinn isn't over him... she is just a screaming bitca.

Kurt was as annoying as usual. Was he wearing a skirt? And Will was just as pathetic as always.

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Geraine
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I feel bad for Quinn, but I'm worried she is going to return to being mean to the other kids in Glee. I think she has grown too much to do that, but it just seems like the past two episodes she is consistently on the verge of tears.

When Quinn asked Finn to get back with her I knew Rachel had put her up to it almost right away. That didn't stop me from hoping that Quinn was serious and that Finn would actually get back with her. Rachel treats Finn badly and I think Quinn has grown and realizes that she missed out on a guy that would have done anything for her.

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Lyrhawn
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Quinn cheated him on him and then tried to lie to him about a baby that wasn't his. Rachel is being a controlling jerk, but nothing approaches that level of betrayal. On the other side, having Quinn be the one to tempt Finn was a double-douche moving knowing that Quinn still has feelings for him and probably regrets the way she treated him.

I keep waiting for Coach Biest to actually be a huge jerk, because it always seems like she has an evil smile on her face whenever she does something nice. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. But assuming she really is a good person, man, they really treated her bad, and only Will has the conscience necessary to really feel bad for what he did, but I'm glad that he's atoning to a degree.

Also the short little Glee clip about Britney Spears on Hulu is funny. They ask John Stamos if he feels his premiere was upstaged by Britney and he says something like 'no, it was okay. I mean, they named the episode Britney/Britney and not John Stamos/John Stamos, but it's fine.'

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Geraine
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I know Quinn cheated on Finn. She was a different person then. She has grown as a person and has matured over the past year. I guess I just want more interaction between the two of them. I would really like them to sit down and talk about what happened.

That is one of my complaints with the show though. One scene Santana and Quinn are fighting each other, then in the next scene they are singing together and smiling and acting like everything is good in the world. They either work things out off camera or they all have short term memory loss.

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rollainm
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Or good work ethic?
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katharina
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Cartoon. The whole show makes so much more sense when you realize that after every scene, they hit the reset button.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
Cartoon. The whole show makes so much more sense when you realize that after every scene, they hit the reset button.

Sadly I think you are right. I guess after watching Ryan Murphey's last show I was expecting grudges to hold and bad feelings to stick around longer than one scene.

Nip/Tuck was not the best show, but one thing you could count on was grudges, bad feelings, and resolution.

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AvidReader
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I was pleasantly surprised that they handled spiritual beliefs as well as they did. Not terribly interestingly, but these are pretty stupid characters. Anything more would have been out of place.

Mostly, I think I was grateful for a return to the old song mix. Brittney's catalog without the production trickery was pretty weak, and the week before when they proved how hip they were, I was pretty bored with the songs. This week was a nice mix, both of songs and singers, actually.

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Amanecer
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I agree. I enjoyed the music greatly and was at least interested in their exploration of the topic. I can't think of another broadcast show that has even quasi-fairly explored an atheist's beliefs. While this wasn't deep, it was sympathetic.
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Geraine
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I really liked the episode as well, but I am not liking Kurt much. The first two episodes he was annoying, and this latest episode he was a complete jerk. I'm glad he shaped up at the end though. I really hope his dad is ok, he is one of the most "real" characters of the show, aside from the Finn/Kurt/Burt fiasco in the Gaga episode.

I enjoyed the interaction between Sue and her sister as well. You got to see the human side of Sue when talking about her sister, though I have no idea why she would have shown her human side to Emma. It just didn't fit. It would have been more believable if she had opened up to Will, as she has in the past.

Finn and "Grilled Cheesus" really cracked me up. He did a great job with "Losing my Religion" as well.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
I agree. I enjoyed the music greatly and was at least interested in their exploration of the topic. I can't think of another broadcast show that has even quasi-fairly explored an atheist's beliefs. While this wasn't deep, it was sympathetic.

I'm glad they had the atheist commentary that they did in that episode. But it would have been nice if the religious exploration had been deeper than my toes.

Instead per usual the religious fall back on just being total jerks, then by the end come up with, "It doesn't matter what you believe in, just believe in something!"

The best thing to come out of that episode was that cover of the Beatles, "I want to hold your hand."

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Amanecer
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quote:
Instead per usual the religious fall back on just being total jerks
I didn't see the religious people as being total jerks. Finn's story was ridiculous, but all of the others, while not given much exposure, didn't come across negatively to me at all. What negativity did you see?
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BlackBlade
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The whole back and forth where they asked Chris Colfer why he didn't believe in God, and the gems the religious side were throwing out is, "But you're going to hell then!" and "You can't disprove God!"

Finn's story was an aside to me, it bugged me too, but I was trying to stay focused.

edit: oh and Jane Lynch's back and forth with that student was another example of, religion having no answers and just sitting there in awe as an intelligent atheist gets a TKO in the first round.

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Amanecer
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I guess I saw the Colfer thing as normal shock and not as negative, but I could see how they could come across as empty to you. I thought that the way his classmates accepted him and supported him throughout the episode without seeming to care too much about his lack of faith was more relevant.

I thought that Jane Lynch coming around to appearing open to faith at the end was the message that they were going for.

I do not believe that Ryan Murphy is an atheist. But that is based largely on his prior work. Things could have changed for him. Wikipedia says he sometimes goes to church. My suspicion is that he is religious but in a very liberal way and that is the viewpoint that was most espoused by his characters.

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Lisa
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Kurt remains an ass.

But it's really the writers who are the asses.

Someone suggests dedicating the week to Jesus and neither of the two prominent Jews in the class have any issue with it.

God, this show is pissing me off.

[ October 06, 2010, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Lisa ]

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Lyrhawn
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I really liked Sue in this episode. Even when she was being evil she wasn't really being evil, not like she normally is. She was being a regular person with a regular person's doubts.

I like that Finn was trivializing religion only to learn that God isn't a wishing well. I also liked that one of his wishes came through monkey paw style to teach him a lesson.

I'm glad that Kurt learned his lesson by the end of the episode, but really, what an annoying selfish little prick. I hate characters that spurn the grief of others.

And Lisa, as far as the Jews go, the week wasn't dedicated to Jesus per se. Sure Finn was all about Cheesus, but Shue made it clear that it was a non-denominational spirituality that they were celebrating, and none of the songs specifically listed Jesus did they? Furthermore, she made her concerns extremely clear to Finn when she told them that their kids needed to have the freedom to do exactly what she told them to do, which was amusing, but made her look, yet again, like a bit of a bitch. Also, Puck expressed his displeasure, but backed off when Shue said it was about spirituality.

As far as the music went, it was okay. I thought it was interesting that What if God Was One of Us was done to almost the exact same style as when they did Keep Holding On. Apparently whenever a classmate has a serious problem, they all dress up in white, go to the auditorium and do a group number. Finn did a decent job with the REM song. Puck had a nice one. Mercedes had two, one of which was fun. My room mate and I made a note that black churches always look like a BLAST on television. It's one of those fun, positive stereotypes.

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Geraine
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Funny you say that, during the church scene my wife turned to me and said "That's how church should be!"

BB, I didn't see the same thing you did. Will made it clear that it was supposed to be spirituality in general, I think Kurt's song played into that. He sang about the bond between father and son.

I think Kurt looked like a complete jerk this episode. His friends were trying to help by praying for his father, and Kurt acted like a child. We don't know if Burt is religious at all or what his beliefs are. It wasn't up to Kurt to make that decision for his father, and I think he realized this at the end.

I think most people that do not believe in God would still appreciate if a friend prayed for a sick family member. I am sure there are those that wouldn't, but I do not believe they would act like Kurt did.

One thing that really bugged me about this episode though... For a while Finn believed that Grilled Cheesus was answering his prayers and giving him what he asked for. There is the scene where Finn is angry at Kurt for not telling him about Burt and says that Burt is the closest thing to a father he may ever have. Afterwards he doesn't pray that Burt gets better, but instead asks to touch Rachel's breasticles. I don't know if the writers are just idiots or if they purposely wrote it that way. It just really bugged me.

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Lyrhawn
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Everyone had a lesson to learn or impart in this episode. Finn had to learn that God wasn't there for his own selfish reasons, but that he needed to think of others too, and that religion was bigger than him personally.

I was actually okay with that one. It was a little silly, but it all counts as character growth.

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BlackBlade
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Geraine: The end of the episode at church was OK, but it was too little too late for me.

I didn't look down on Kurt for the way he was acting, he was dealing with grief. If I was trying to cope with my own father dying and a Buddhist said to me, "Don't worry he will be reincarnated, perhaps as your own child!" I would be seething.

If I was an atheist and my religious friends wanted to pray for a dying a relative I might be frustrated as I would want them to help me through it in a way that was meaningful to me, prayer wouldn't be one of those ways. They could pray during their own time if they wanted, but I wouldn't want to go to a church meeting where my father was being prayed for unless I thought it *might* do something.

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Shanna
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I don't understand why people thought Kurt was being a jerk.

I felt horrible for him and the way his classmates were treating him. Here he was gong through something very difficult and really needed the support of his friends, but they couldn't support in the way HE needed to be supported. I thought it was selfish to keep pushing the faith and religion issue when I think he really just needed someone to sit with him and listen to stories about his dad. I even cried during "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" because it really just sunk home the idea that Kurt probably feels very alone without his dad, the one person who has always supported him no matter what.

It felt really forced to have Kurt attend church with Mercedes (especially when she then implies that atheists have to believe in "something" as if Kurt hadn't already come to the realization of how important and "sacred" time with his father is.) And I still don't understand why all the kids got together to sing "What if God was One of Us."

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Lyrhawn
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Eh. It didn't look to me like all they wanted to do was push religion on him, though, that was an aspect for sure. When all the kids were with Burt singing to him and be barged in to kick them out, I thought that was really rude. It wasn't about Kurt in that moment, it was about the other people's connection with Burt, especially Finn and his mom. They have a right to be there and deal with things their own way. My problem with Kurt wasn't that he wasn't religion or rejected religion, it was that he was trying to create an anti-religion bubble around his dad that no other character could pierce, regardless of whose sake it was for.

And at the end, I think Kurt learned at the church that it wasn't necessarily about praying or believing in God, but that being with a bunch of people who genuinely care and want to help, regardless of their motivations, CAN have a healing power. I don't think he understood that at all until he went to church with Mercedes.

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Shanna
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Making allowances for Finn and his mother makes sense, but obviously Finn isn't really that religious or he would have put better use to his Cheesus.

But what relationship did Rachel or Mercedes have to Burt?

If I were invited to a religious funeral, I wouldn't go around talking about reincarnation or how the body is becoming wormfood. And I certainly wouldn't pretend to be shocked when religious mourners closest to the grief become upset with me. When we provide comfort, it is meant to help the person who is suffering not to make ourselves feel better. To say "I'm praying for you" to an atheist, can be a very selfish thing to say because it shows a lack of respect and understanding.

I think it is important to surround oneself with caring friends during times of crisis, but I wouldn't say that the Glee kids were particularly caring. Maybe they had good intentions, but I think how they conducted themselves was very disrespectful.

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Raymond Arnold
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This is my favorite episode of Glee, and my favorite "Religious" episode. To those bothered by the Shallowness of the religious types.... well, first of all, I was moved by the spiritual songs in the episode. Second of all, in every single other "Religious" episode I've seen of any given TV show, it's the atheist viewpoint that's given shallow lip service. So imagine being that annoyed at least once per TV-show-you-like-that-attempts-to-deal-with-serious-issues."

I liked that Sue was an atheist, and that it was among the most reasonable things about her.

I liked that Kurt acted pretty realistically throughout the episode. The moments when he was upset and lashing out at people, he had every reason to be mad - partly because his friends were being insensitive, but mostly because his Dad was in a coma and he felt alone and angry. And when he had time to process his grief he forgave and apologized to his friends and they forgave and apologized to him and I can't imagine changing any of it without ruining the story.

I especially liked that, like most Religious episodes, it ended with with "you gotta believe in something," but unlike most Religious episodes, it gave you a very concrete of what atheists can and should believe in.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Second of all, in every single other "Religious" episode I've seen of any given TV show, it's the atheist viewpoint that's given shallow lip service.
But that's like complaining that you are sick to death of movies where the woman is a pair of breasts for the hero to fall in love with, and then a movie comes along where a really hot, intelligent, driven girl is the main character while some dunce dude with a hot body tags along providing make out opportunities along the way.

Either way it's poor writing.

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Raymond Arnold
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I didn't feel that believers in the show were portrayed as shallow. I thought they showcased the power that faith in something can bring, regardless of what form it takes, and I do believe that power is real. I actually think it did a much BETTER job of showcasing the pro-religious side than most versions of this episode do even when the authors are clearly trying to favor it. It's not that the writing's bad. It's that the subject matter is HARD.

I thought every aspect of this episode was a step up from the normal writing quality of Glee. I realize that's not saying much, but the writers were clearly trying. Did the characters have complex well thought out philosophies about why they were religious? No. They're high school kids. I know exactly one person in real life who might have responded more intelligently than the kids did to Kurt when he came "out." Every believer I've revealed myself as an atheist to's first words were similar to theirs. And every theist who has responded to Sue Sylvester's argument (in real life OR on intellectual message boards) has sounded exactly as compelling to me as Emma did.

Could they have trotted out carefully thought out theist arguments for the characters to present? Sure. It would have made the theist characters even more obnoxious and insensitive though. Not to mention they also could have trotted out more atheist counterarguments. The best things about religion I've ever seen or experienced were about feeling something powerful and sharing in that feeling with your community, and I think the show captured that very well. Are there plenty of other aspects of religion they could have dealt with instead? Sure, but that was the one that was actually relevant.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
It would have made the theist characters even more obnoxious and insensitive though. Not to mention they also could have trotted out more atheist counterarguments.
Writing smarter theists does not mean the theists become more argumentative. I don't want theists who are more capable of pushing their religion on people at the wrong time.

And sure they are high school kids, that's a good point they are more likely to be shallow in their faith, I got told I was going to hell for being a Mormon in my high school. But high schoolers can also be quite intelligent, considerate, and understanding, especially in the face of tragedy.

Yes the power of believing in community is probably the best angle they could approach from, I don't want them to write a God into the episode who starts granting prayers and manifesting himself within the school. I don't even mind that there was prejudiced feelings from the religious side. What bugs me, and this has bugged me from the very first episode where the cheerleader is being a jerk about abstinence, and ends up pregnant, is I don't feel like there is a single positive religious role model in the show, but there is plenty of religious, (both apt and retarded) criticism.

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Shanna
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It was recently confirmed that Glee's creators have plans to introduce a "Christian character" sometime this season. According to Murphy, "We’ve taken a couple jabs at the right wing this year, so what I want to do with this character is have someone who Christian kids and parents can recognize and say, ‘Oh, look—I’m represented there, too!’ If we’re trying to form a world of inclusiveness, we’ve got to include that point of view as well."

But nobody should be getting their hopes up considering how most of the characters on the show are varying degrees of unlikable. It seems this character will be an evangelical teen (I guess along the lines of pre-pregnancy Quinn) who will take issue with Kurt's homosexuality and the suggestive dance choreography and song selections.

On a whole other level, why are they adding a new character?! That will make three new Glee members this season (Sam, Kurt's future love interest, and this Christian character.) As it is, Quinn has had almost no lines this season, Santana is yet to get a solo, and we still know next to nothing about Mike (except that he has great abs.)

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Lyrhawn
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How sure are we that Sam ISN'T Kurt's future love interest?
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Shanna
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Depends on if you think Ryan Murphy would lie about Sam NOT being Kurt's love interest. Though this article also says he'll be a member of a rival Glee club instead of a student at McKinley.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/09/glee-chord-overstreet-is-not-kurts-new-boyfriend.html

Oh yeah, so this means Kurt will be dating Harry Potter.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/09/glee-darren-criss-joins-as-a-new-gay-character.html

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