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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Confirmed: Bin Laden Dead (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Confirmed: Bin Laden Dead
James Tiberius Kirk
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No link yet. Should know within minutes.

[edit] Upgraded from Rumor to Confirmed.

[ May 01, 2011, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]

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SenojRetep
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Is this the press conference President Obama is supposedly holding tonight? Do you have a semi-authoritative source?
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SoaPiNuReYe
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I think it's fact at this point. They're streaming the story over at cnn.com right now.
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DDDaysh
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Wow... seems like it's true. It's almost a let down. What do you do when the Big Bad Wolf is dead?
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SenojRetep
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Here's something from earlier at McClatchy:

Bin Laden "found" in Pakistan. Other news outlets are saying dead, rather than found, but the White House video feed is still dark for me. Has the Press Conference come and gone and I'm just missing it?

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talsmitde
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It hasn't started yet, I've been monitoring since 10:30.
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Lyrhawn
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I can't wait to see the GOP spin telling us how Obama should get no credit for this, and he's actually terrible on national security. [Smile]

Don't get me wrong, they might have gotten him regardless of who was president, but, it'll still be fun to watch. Killing Osama has almost nothing to do with national security right now. Al Qaeda has fractured too much for killing Osama to really matter. This is ALL about politics, and this should be a huge, huge boost to Obama, no matter what the GOP does to try and tamp down excitement. They spent too much time in the last 10 years saying Osama needs to be killed, and made him too important, now actually killing him comes with the requisite credit.

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SoaPiNuReYe
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quote:
Originally posted by DDDaysh:
Wow... seems like it's true. It's almost a let down. What do you do when the Big Bad Wolf is dead?

I got the same feeling. The next few months will be interesting. I'm thinking that it's going to be almost impossible for Obama to lose the impending election now though.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by DDDaysh:
Wow... seems like it's true. It's almost a let down. What do you do when the Big Bad Wolf is dead?

You create a new one.
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Blayne Bradley
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And there was much rejoicing.
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The White Whale
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Ooooh, this should be interesting.
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talsmitde
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Yeah, it's true. Neither political movements nor phobias of enemies disappear just because one guy is dead.
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Strider
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why is this address taking so long to start, I have papers to write.
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Blayne Bradley
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Goddamnit, why did he have to die on us, now I have to put off watching more anime tonight until at least Obama gives a speech.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
why is this address taking so long to start, I have papers to write.

Heh, so do Obama's speechwriters. [Smile]
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BlackBlade
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It seems like everyone was so beyond thinking about him, and to find out he is dead is just so...I don't know what adjective to use.
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I can't wait to see the GOP spin telling us how Obama should get no credit for this, and he's actually terrible on national security. [Smile]

It looks like you don't need to wait for the GOP spin at all.
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Blayne Bradley
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And that my friends is the sound of the GOP losing 2012 before it even begins! [Big Grin]
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I can't wait to see the GOP spin telling us how Obama should get no credit for this, and he's actually terrible on national security. [Smile]

It looks like you don't need to wait for the GOP spin at all.
[Roll Eyes]

Yeah, my guess is sooo outside the realm of possibility.

I'd welcome a surprise.

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DDDaysh
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/

CNN's was live feed, so it wouldn't load for me.

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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
And that my friends is the sound of the GOP losing 2012 before it even begins! [Big Grin]

Data says that while this will cause a temporary spike in Obama's favorables, it will have little long term effect. The health of the economy is much more important to Obama's (or his rivals') 2012 chances than any symbolic victory.
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Lyrhawn
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It's a pretty big symbol though.
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Blayne Bradley
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If the Democrats had the GOP ability to drum beat this into the American people with the same tenacity the GOP would if it was their position hell yeah.

Because then nothing else would honestly matter because the GOP would end every sentence, every policy statement, every comment with "But we got Osama".

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BlackBlade
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There's no need to castigate the GOP for things they haven't even done, even if it's 100% certain they are going to do it. That's the sort of thinking that prevents meaningful discourse from taking place.

This isn't a victory for the Democrats or a defeat for the Republicans, it's something all of us in America have been looking to see resolved.

I only hope it turns out Pakistani elements were integral in his death, it's much better if the Pakistani government can be a part of this instead of being perceived as being in the way, or incompetent.

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The White Whale
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Also interesting: today is the 8th year anniversary of GWB's "Mission Accomplished" speech.
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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
If the Democrats had the GOP ability to drum beat this into the American people with the same tenacity the GOP would if it was their position hell yeah.

Because then nothing else would honestly matter because the GOP would end every sentence, every policy statement, every comment with "But we got Osama".

Just like Giuliani ended every statement with "September 11." It didn't do him much good, it wouldn't do a GOP President much good, and it won't do Obama much good. Voters don't care (much) about foreign policy success, particularly when they're busy being stressed out over a bad economy. Right or not, it's the way American voters have been, and I don't see any reason that would change in 2012.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade: There's no need to castigate the GOP for things they haven't even done, even if it's 100% certain they are going to do it. That's the sort of thinking that prevents meaningful discourse from taking place.

This isn't a victory for the Democrats or a defeat for the Republicans, it's something all of us in America have been looking to see resolved.

Riiiiight, I'm just calling it as I see it.

quote:

I only hope it turns out Pakistani elements were integral in his death, it's much better if the Pakistani government can be a part of this instead of being perceived as being in the way, or incompetent.

Poor Pakistan, at least they got maybe one good lick in before they descend to the elite exclusive club of failed states*.

*Hmm, I haven't ever looked into this but my friend's Pakistani college wrote a paper on this and it was depressing. My friend is pretty interested in Pakistan.

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SenojRetep
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Lyrhawn-

If I were to anticipate a GOP response it would be 1) a recognition of the bravery and comptence of the American soldier (or "war-fighter" if it turns out that it was CIA drone attack that done him in, which seems most likely to me) 2) praise for our allies (whether they helped us or hindered us is largely beside the point) and 3) a back-handed compliment to Obama about continuing and increasing the Bush team's tactics of cross-border assaults.

<edit>I would expect a general dismissal of the importance of the event from more isolationist Republicans (like maybe Ron Paul). But I would be surprised if any main-stream Republican was as tin-eared as that.</edit>

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
There's no need to castigate the GOP for things they haven't even done, even if it's 100% certain they are going to do it. That's the sort of thinking that prevents meaningful discourse from taking place.

This isn't a victory for the Democrats or a defeat for the Republicans, it's something all of us in America have been looking to see resolved.

I only hope it turns out Pakistani elements were integral in his death, it's much better if the Pakistani government can be a part of this instead of being perceived as being in the way, or incompetent.

Oh whatever. I was making a prediction, not castigating. Plenty of time for that.

And it's either naive or foolish to pretend that there are no political ramifications for this. Come on, seriously.

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SenojRetep
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Presser just started...confirmation in the first line.
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Humean316
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I am uneasy in celebrating another human being's death. Even a human being as evil and deplorable as Osama Bin Laden.

The worst images for me of 9/11 were the people celebrating in Pakistan and The Middle East. I sincerely hope, I don't see that today.

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Wingracer
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quote:
Originally posted by Humean316:
I am uneasy in celebrating another human being's death. Even a human being as evil and deplorable as Osama Bin Laden.

The worst images for me of 9/11 were the people celebrating in Pakistan and The Middle East. I sincerely hope, I don't see that today.

I understand completely what you mean and yet, I am having a hard time not being quite happy right now. I say enjoy it while it lasts, there will be another boogie man right around the corner.
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SenojRetep
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Well...at least he didn't say "winning the future."

Just kidding; it was a good speech. The conclusion was a bit thin, and I thought the central focus on 9/11 (rather than al-Qaida atrocities more generally) was misplaced, but overall it was mostly worth staying up for.

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BlackBlade
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Lyrhawn: I wasn't trying to call you out, I just sensed that current as was trying to head it off.

Blayne: That's nice.

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Wingracer
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And sorry Humean, but BBC is showing celebrations in DC.
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James Tiberius Kirk
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Should be glad to see the Obama-is-Carter meme die an appropriate, belated death.

--j_k

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Lyrhawn: I wasn't trying to call you out, I just sensed that current as was trying to head it off.

Blayne: That's nice.

Fair enough. Apologies if I snapped at you.
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Chris Bridges
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"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."
- Mark Twain

Two things I posted on Twitter:

"Not a time for raucous celebration. A time for relief, cathartic tears and grim determination to continue fighting murderous extremists."

and

"How to explain? Like when you have to put down a killer dog. Sorrow at the circumstances that required it, relief that a threat is gone."

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Humean316
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quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
And sorry Humean, but BBC is showing celebrations in DC.

Yeah, I saw that. Make no mistake, I am glad he is dead. Justice has been done, and I agree with that.

I just...I don't know. I don't really know what to say. I have an enormous amount of faith in humanity, I believe that we will always be better than the worst things we can do.

But I won't celebrate the death of anyone. Ever.

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Hobbes
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I have the same feelings, but I don't begrudge their celebration any more than I do those who celebrated VE or VJ day which represented far more deaths.

Hobbes [Smile]

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Wingracer
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quote:
Originally posted by Humean316:
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
And sorry Humean, but BBC is showing celebrations in DC.

Yeah, I saw that. Make no mistake, I am glad he is dead. Justice has been done, and I agree with that.

I just...I don't know. I don't really know what to say. I have an enormous amount of faith in humanity, I believe that we will always be better than the worst things we can do.

But I won't celebrate the death of anyone. Ever.

You have just a bit more faith than I, but I applaud you none the less.

Still, I'm pretty darn happy right now. Tinged with some sadness as well but happy.

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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by Humean316:
quote:
Originally posted by Wingracer:
And sorry Humean, but BBC is showing celebrations in DC.

Yeah, I saw that. Make no mistake, I am glad he is dead. Justice has been done, and I agree with that.

I just...I don't know. I don't really know what to say. I have an enormous amount of faith in humanity, I believe that we will always be better than the worst things we can do.

But I won't celebrate the death of anyone. Ever.

My thoughts exactly.
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Shanna
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:

"Not a time for raucous celebration. A time for relief, cathartic tears and grim determination to continue fighting murderous extremists."

This.

Seeing the celebrations on tv was odd. I might understand a subdued coming together of strangers. People meeting in the streets to talk and hug and remember the victims.

However, the guy I just saw on tv was decked out in stars and stripes apparel and bouncing around on some pogo-stilts or something while the crowd chanted "USA! USA!"

Personally, I had assumed for years that he was dead and buried so the whole announcement is kinda disorienting.

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Stone_Wolf_
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I really don't know how to feel.

I don't want to open up a can of worms here...I wouldn't call myself a "truther" but I also wouldn't say I believe for a second the "official story" of how 9/11 went down.

As I do not believe the official story, and Bin Laden was a rather large part of that, I wonder what part, if any, he had in it.

Please do not crucify me. I'm just wondering aloud, not claiming anything.

Fair warning, I will be going to bed soon, so please do not expect responses until tomorrow.

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Rakeesh
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Never say never, Humean. It's a fine, noble ideal to strive for - I really do mean that - but how sure are you you rate with the saints for whom that 'never' is really true?

I'm not trying to just be critical-it's an interesting topic to me. I personally think it's pretty easy, or at least easier, to say such a thing in the abstract.

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Ron Lambert
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Yes Shanna, I understand your surprise. Here Osama bin Laden was not hiding out in a cave like I pictured him, or already dead like you thought. He was living in a mansion!

I have to admit, it looks like President Obama handled this well. He gave the order to go ahead with the operation when he might have waffled. He took advantage of cooperation between U.S. Intelligence and the Pakistani government, and the operation went exceedingly well, with no Americans harmed, and Osama bin Laden's body taken into U.S. custody. They also managed to plan this for nearly two weeks, without anything leaking in Washington or in Pakistan--major accomplishments in themselves.

I think it should also be mentioned, that we owe a sincere thanks to the Pakistani government, that they allowed our operatives to be the ones to move in, engage bin Laden and the three men with him in a firefight, and take custody of bin Laden's body. It is important that it happened this way, so no one can claim that bin Laden actually died months ago and all this was merely being staged.

Final confirmation from DNA analysis can now be done, though it has been said that other forensic evidence the U.S. operatives had with them convinced them that it was indeed bin Laden, and continued intelligence gathering since last September had led U.S. planners to believe bin Laden might be living in the area.

The CIA and U.S. Special Forces command will probably not publish the names of the operatives that took down bin Laden. But however secret, I hope that the awards they receive will indicate the gratitude of the nation.

As far as demonstrations go--I am glad for them. My mind goes back to the shameful people in Gaza who were dancing in the streets after 911. Now dancing in the streets are Americans, around the White House, in Times Square, at Ground Zero. There will probably be more as most Americans wake up tomorrow and learn what happened.

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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Never say never, Humean. It's a fine, noble ideal to strive for - I really do mean that - but how sure are you you rate with the saints for whom that 'never' is really true?

I'm not trying to just be critical-it's an interesting topic to me. I personally think it's pretty easy, or at least easier, to say such a thing in the abstract.

I'm also uneasy with throwing the term "never" around, no matter how sure I am of something. But I agree with Humean's sentiment. If you wanted to be more careful about it, I could justifiably say, "Given my understanding of the world, my system of ethics, my knowledge of my emotional reactions to events around me, and my probability of correctly predicting my reactions to other extreme situations over time, I can't conceive of a possible future time where I will celebrate the death of another human being, and I say this with as much certainty as I believe it is possible to make any statment."

That would be the more accurate way to put it, but Humean's is shorter. [Smile]

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Lyrhawn
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Geez, the crowds are only getting bigger.

I honestly never thought, if we got him, that the reaction would be like this.

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Strider
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Also worth questioning is how many people are really "celebrating the death of Bin Laden" as opposed to celebrating "closure to the situation", "succeeding in our mission", or something like that.
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Ron Lambert
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Lyrhawn, we've been waiting for this for almost ten years. This September 11, on the Tenth Anniversary, the observances at Ground Zero and elsewhere will now be much more positive, very different in character from what they would have been if Osama bin Laden still had not been caught and made to answer for his villainy. It took ten years, but in the end, he did not get away with it.
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