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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Presidential Election News & Discussion Center 2012 - Inauguration Day! (Page 26)

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Author Topic: Presidential Election News & Discussion Center 2012 - Inauguration Day!
Jeff C.
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You know, it really sinks my heart to see how nutty OSC has gotten. I really wish he was more level headed and less of an extremist in his thinking (the world is doomed because we re-elected one person? Really?).

And Ron, just out of curiosity, what could you possibly be basing this 9 year prediction on? Do I even have to quote you the line in Revelations that states, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour the lord cometh"? Not even Christ knows, according to the bible.

Let's not be so arrogant as to think any of us has a clue what the future holds.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
The election was severely corrupted by the dishonesty and unprofessionalism of the Main Stream Media, which refused to take Obama to task for his obvious miscues, such as "Fast and Furious," the terrorist attack in Benghazi and Obama's attempt for ten days afterward to characterize it as a "demonstration" against an inconsequential internet video, and Obama's lie that Romney did not call for GM and Chrysler to go through bankruptcy WITH GOVERNMENT GUARANTEES--which is pretty much what Obama did, except that he gave the car companies cash up front.

Some leftist liberals may delude themselves that they have a cause for celebration. But what is there really to celebrate? The triumph of wrong? The triumph of negative campaigning and untrue personal attacks? The triumph of a total incompetent who never so much as managed a lemonade stand over a proven professional in business?

Contemplate very carefully what the nation has let itself in for during the next four years, and see if it is really a cause for celebrating. I think this is the beginning of the end. The end of America as a nation that stands for good in the world, and the end of the world as it looks to America for leadership. I am afraid there may be no recovery from this. We are heading downhill, and it is permanent. This time, we have finally gone too far. Woe to the next generation--if there is one. The Lord will come within nine years.

Ron are you going to respond to my earlier post? I'mma gonna also just keep hounding with this question until you do.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Let's not be so arrogant as to think any of us has a clue what the future holds.

http://www.isnatesilverawitch.com
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Blayne Bradley
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I'm mildly surprised that Nate is getting so much press now, he's gone viral. I also love his twitter of "Hey guys, wanna get my new books?" when its apparent his prediction was 50 for 50.

He was pretty much on the ball before and had some attention but I'm pretty sure its snowballing now that the Conservatives have a punching bag.

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dkw
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Do I even have to quote you the line in Revelations that states, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour the lord cometh"?

It's in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but not in Revelation. Which also doesn't have an "s" on the end.

Other than that, carry on.

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MrSquicky
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Ok, I actually read OSC's piece.

Yeah I know that his version of declaring he's going to run off to Canada, but man, that sounds like something a teenager would write to the girl who just dumped him.

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Blayne Bradley
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I think he's mad that he didn't get to become leader of the world ala Peter and Valentine.
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kmbboots
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How, for heaven's sake, would Canada be more to his liking?
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Vadon
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I'm thinking (hoping) OSC is trying to pull a Joaquin Phoenix and he's faking a meltdown. It's just that OSC has been in character for, well, about a decade now. Any time he wants to write an essay telling the world how we've all been punk'd by him would be great.

Seriously.

Any moment now, it'll come.

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MrSquicky
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No, I'm just saying that after every election, some of the less mature people whose preferred candidates didn't win throw a tantrum and do things like threaten to move to Canada or write about how their guy totally should have won and how our love would have worked, Doreen, but everything is all your fault. No matter what I did, it was never enough for you. You're just so...so selfish and you're never going to find another guy who will treat you like I did.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Do I even have to quote you the line in Revelations that states, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour the lord cometh"?

It's in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but not in Revelation. Which also doesn't have an "s" on the end.

Other than that, carry on.

No YOU carry on.

Good day, sir.

I said GOOD DAY!

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MrSquicky
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Ma'am. dkw is a woman. Other than that, carry on.
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Samprimary
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one, he's osc

two, obama won

three, gay marriage spread out to enough states last night to map out a nice middle finger to "defenders of traditional marriage"

four, it was done by popular ballot, putting a discreet end to the activist judges slash enforcing it against the will of the peeeeeople populist bellendry

five, this all happened at once

in hindsight, expecting anything else other than that the guy was going to be absolutely, ragingly, off-the-rails livid today was obviously not going to be fruitful. but i am still surprised by the definitionally hateful response. he's apoplectic.

kay, I guess that's all I have to say bout that!

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Jon Boy
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One of the things that first drew me to Hatrack was OSC's Civilization Watch column. I remember thinking that they seemed refreshingly reasonable. I'm almost afraid to go back and read the early ones to see how reasonable they seem now.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
Ok, I actually read OSC's piece.

Yeah I know that his version of declaring he's going to run off to Canada, but man, that sounds like something a teenager would write to the girl who just dumped him.

He thinks more and more like a child every year. I think he thinks this is a good thing, btw.

I'll say this, I think as I've grown older I've come to realize it more and more. What impressed me about his writing was skill. Great writing, and it was great writing, is about highlighting these tiny observations we all make, recognizing what is significant and what is not. You don't have to be an intellectual giant to be skilled at something. We all know people with tremendous skill who are not deep thinkers. But writers can appear to be deep. Writers have the artifice of depth in their craft.

And I think somewhere along the way, OSC stopped realizing that his writing skills -his ability to be convincing and effective in words on a page- did not actually make his ideas good, or right, well informed, or impossible to dismiss. And then, I think, somewhere along the way he *did* realize this, and it has made him the very bitter person he presents himself as in his current writing.

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Olivet 2.0
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You know that sound that Daffy Duck makes when he does all those back flips at the end of a cartoon? That became the soundtrack in my head when I tried to read that last thing. Wow.
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Chris Bridges
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Honestly, I think he's frightened. I think the fact that so many people are willfully, deliberately ignoring so many obvious, self-evident truths is maddening and terrifying.

Imagine being on a plane piloted by maniacs who insist that you can too fly through a mountain as long as you think happy thoughts, and nothing you say, no matter how reasonable, will dissuade them. And half the other passengers on the plane believe them and seem to think you're crazy. You fear for your life and your family's lives and even for the lives of the maniacs, and you yell louder and more frantically the closer the mountain gets because their stupid insanity is about to end it for all of you...

I believe he's utterly sincere. And because he's utterly sincere, of course he would look for news and people who would verify what he can plainly see, and that gives him more facts with which to try and convince the mad pilots. Any refutations of those facts are the insane excuses of people who, whether they know it or not, want to kill everybody, and how can you believe them when to give in means fiery death?

I don't think his facts are all correct, I don't think the motivations he assigns to those facts is correct, and I don't agree with his conclusions. But I think I understand a little of why he might be getting more and more shrill.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Olivet 2.0:
You know that sound that Daffy Duck makes when he does all those back flips at the end of a cartoon? That became the soundtrack in my head when I tried to read that last thing. Wow.

Hey though, we got the Nazi reference in there, so there's that. Which is nice.


quote:
I don't think his facts are all correct, I don't think the motivations he assigns to those facts is correct, and I don't agree with his conclusions. But I think I understand a little of why he might be getting more and more shrill.
I've understood it for years. That understanding doesn't make this behavior forgivable.
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Rakeesh
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I would perhaps add in a stiff but not overwhelming dose of standard political dishonesty of people committed to hyping one side or another, but aside from that I tend to agree with you, Chris.

Not sure if I would have had I never read some of his work, especially the early stuff.

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Olivet 2.0
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I can totally see that. It's just exhausting.
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Rakeesh
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I'm just a few paragraphs in and I'm already thinking, "You don't have Nixon to kick around anymore."

Not that this will get that sort of exposure, but that 'concession' speech back in...62? 64? Stuck with and tarred Nixon for a LONG time.

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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
Imagine being on a plane piloted by maniacs who insist that you can too fly through a mountain as long as you think happy thoughts, and nothing you say, no matter how reasonable, will dissuade them. And half the other passengers on the plane believe them and seem to think you're crazy.

And that all other planes are even more maniacal.
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Samprimary
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Okay, I lied. One last comment on the article.

This is the supplemental followup:

http://www.theonion.com/video/after-obama-victory-shrieking-whitehot-sphere-of-p,30284/

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Destineer
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ZOMGOSC.

When did he become a hardcore economic conservative? Wasn't his line always that he was economically liberal, but his social conservatism and hawkishness trumped his remaining Democrat sympathies?

quote:
When Obama's incompetent and anti-scientific economic policies have the consequences that such policies always have, and the American economy collapses under the weight of debts and entitlements ...

When Obama's crushing policies result in American healthcare sinking to the low level of service, the endless waiting lists, the needless death and suffering in the name of "fairness" that already afflict Europeans and Canadians ...

[Confused]
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Blayne Bradley
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Yeah that pissed me off so much; funnily enough even the worst stories I've heard from other Canadians, I've seen Americans go "I go through all that too but I have to pay 300$ a month; where do I sign up?"
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Destineer
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From a friend's reaction:

quote:
"Even though his administration, his FEMA, did at least as badly as the Bush administration did after Katrina..."

No details are provided. It is just obvious, I guess, that 55 deaths is at least as appalling as 1800.


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Samprimary
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the two events were obviously the same we're just being unfair to the Bush administration

few things do actually peeve me; the whole "Obama's Katrina" lines were pretty bad, and the absolute utter delusion that Sandy was equivalent mismanagement of a humanitarian concern — to what extent it is construed a mismanagement at all, most analysts said it was a prompt and sufficient response — is just .. it comes off as vile ignorance.

Maybe not vile. Certainly dangerous ignorance by people who never got over their president being correctly called to task for dire incompetence.

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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Destineer:
From a friend's reaction:

quote:
"Even though his administration, his FEMA, did at least as badly as the Bush administration did after Katrina..."

No details are provided. It is just obvious, I guess, that 55 deaths is at least as appalling as 1800.


I'm generally trying to stay away from the self-congratulatory circle-jerk in this thread (you guys're welcome to it!) but I didn't want to leave this without comment. I'm surprised to see such smug equivalence from you, Destineer.

The situations are massively different. Do you really think that the primary factor in the different death tolls is the president?

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Rakeesh
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Wait, so you're surprised Destineer is baffled and (I assume) offended at the notion of drawing equivalence between handling of Katrina and of Sandy?

Actually, a preliminary question to that-do you think Katrina was handled badly by the federal government and if so, that Sandy has been handled on a level nearly as bad? Or-and this is somewhat tongue in cheek-the equivalence being drawn here yours, that handling of Sandy and Katrina was similar?

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Dan_Frank
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No, I'm not commenting on the handling of either of them per se. I don't really care. I'm also not commenting on OSC's equivalence and underhanded jab at Obama.

I do think the attitude that Katrina represented a huge failure on Bush's part is grossly overstated. But that's also largely irrelevant to what I was saying above.

My point was, I just think using the death figures like they're proof for or against either president is really disingenuous and sleazy. The storms were different in a host of ways that have nothing to do with either administration, and I think the majority of the deaths are attributable to that fact. Regardless of the federal response.

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Destineer
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I should say, Katrina's never been a big issue for me. I was quoting my friend, after all.

I do feel like a higher body count is at least some reason to think FEMA "did worse" (to borrow Card's phrase) during Katrina than they did during Sandy.

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Dan_Frank
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It could be a reason, but in isolation it's a bad explanation. I can think of a dozen explanations for both death figures off the top of my head that would be compatible with Bush's handling being vastly better than Obama's.

I'm not saying those explanations are accurate, to be clear. Just that with no other data they are just as plausible.

Katrina was never a big issue for me either. I just think this sort of context-free sarcastic witticism is beneath you.

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Destineer
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Well, I didn't say it. [Smile] But take a look at the very brief point my buddy does make. "No details are provided" by Card. He's not saying Katrina is obviously worse than Sandy, necessarily. He's saying the burden is on Card to at least present some argument that the two are analogous, when by superficial measures, at least, they clearly aren't.
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Destineer
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Also, as you said, this is a circle-jerk we're having here. Smug, unfair quips are the order of the day; well-reasoned essays I'll save for weightier matters.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Destineer:
Well, I didn't say it. [Smile] But take a look at the very brief point my buddy does make. "No details are provided" by Card. He's not saying Katrina is obviously worse than Sandy, necessarily. He's saying the burden is on Card to at least present some argument that the two are analogous, when by superficial measures, at least, they clearly aren't.

ding
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Dan_Frank
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(Yeah I know you didn't say it, but you repeated it. If I said "My friend says Obama should go back to Kenya, hah hah" I hope that you'd call me on saying, or repeating, something so stupid.)

Nevertheless, you made two good points in those two posts. Card's comment was also an unargued context-free assertion, and you are posting in a smugfest, so I'll let it slide now. [Big Grin]

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Rakeesh
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Well, hopefully you would be called more quickly for repeating 'go back to Kenya' than the other thing, since the implication that Obama is from Kenya to go back to is considerably more stupid than the notion that Obama has handled Sandy about as well as Dubya did Katrina-much less far, far worse.
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Dan_Frank
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Sure, my point was just that he chose to repeat it so I felt it was fair for me to criticize him for it, even though it didn't originate with him.

Regardless, I've largely conceded my criticisms in light of his recent comments. So... Yeah.

Edited because I posted on my phone, which yielded one of those lovely auto-corrected "typos" that don't look anything like the typos I grew up with.

[ November 08, 2012, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Dan_Frank ]

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Destineer
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Thanks, Dan. And thanks for letting us have our fun. It must be kind of obnoxious, seen from the other side of the fence. I hope it's not as bad for you as it was for me in '04. That was a rough time.
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BlackBlade
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Boehner says Republicans are ready to talk about new revenues. I want to believe what I thought would happen is actually happening. Republicans got the message that their platform is rickety, and needs correction, especially on taxes.

Let's hope Boehner can get his Tea Party clique on a leash this time.

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Samprimary
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i'm ...

skeptical?

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BlackBlade
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About which part? That Boehner is willing to talk about new revenues, or that he can control the radical elements this time?
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Lyrhawn
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Both.

The so-called "Grand Bargain" fell apart before the election because Boehner couldn't wrangle enough votes on his side of the aisle.

And McConnell released a statement on election night saying he wasn't going to surrender to Obama. For that matter, Boehner announced that keeping the House meant they had just as much of a mandate as Obama.

I'm happy to see him head fake toward compromise, but we'll see what happens when they get in a room together.

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Samprimary
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like if I had to project a result based on extrapolated data involving the house of representatives, this is another grand bargain style trap that boenher et al is using as a trap, a way to provoke the look of talks so that hr's can go "WE REACHED ACROSS THE AISLE AND OBAMA WAS UNWILLING TO COMPROMISE, NO MANDATE NO MANDATE" and craft a narrative about how, no, it is obama and the liberalz who are unable to compromise!!1

— because that is pretty literally the standard of behavior we have known from them ever since 2006.

i mean we are talking about an organization which is literally less popular than the idea of the united states going communist and boenher's behavior really acts as a succinct demonstration why.

the idea that they are legitimately going to change their ways is something that bears being seen before it is believed

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Ron Lambert
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dkw, I did not fix a day and hour when Christ will come. I said it would be within nine years. That could be any time within the next 5-9 years, as I see it.

I know of a pastor who said he was given a dream over 20 years ago that the U.S. president who would sign the National Sunday Law which signals the beginning of the Final Conflict between Good and Evil would be a black man. The possibility of a black man ever becoming president was at that time less than remote.

First, you will see Obama get national government level approval of calling a homosexual union "marriage," in direct defiance of the definition of Marriage given by the Creator. That will lead to an outbreak of calamities even worse and more frequent that anything we have seen in recent years, as God begins a signal withdrawal of His protection. That in turn will lead to virtually everyone saying the answer is we need to get right with God as a nation--and religious tyranny will some to America, which will lead to the enactment of a National Sunday Law, which would be a direct challenge to the authority of the Creator, Who designated the seventh day Sabbath as the memorial of His Creation of earth, and as the sign of His authority. Interestingly, Marriage and the Sabbath are the two divine institutions that God gave to humanity in Eden before the entrance of sin.

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Rakeesh
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Ok, now when none of that happens with the possible exception of the marriage stuff, with the possible but unlikely exception of the marriage bit, remember Ron: even though it will be still another example of a prediction you've made that was hugely, predictably, and comically wrong that will be no reason to re-evaluate the beliefs you held which led to that prediction in the first place.

That's one of the most important lessons about being human, after all: when the world doesn't conform to the world between your ears over and over and over again, just believe it harder.

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MattP
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quote:
calling a homosexual union "marriage," in direct defiance of the definition of Marriage given by the Creator
Our language is organic. "Marriage", like many other words, has meant many things, but has always just been a discriptor of arrangements that can be precisely described with or without any particular definition of the word. The actual English word wasn't divinely created regardless of what you believe of the particular arrangement that it has described at any given point. I can see your God being a bit miffed at people forming unapproved arrangements, but it seems silly that semantics are the major point for him.

Defiance of a definition seems like a pretty petty thing to be upset over.

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Rakeesh
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Oh, and on a related note someone in 1982 predicting there would one day be a black President is a worthless prediction.
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MattP
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Headline in the Chicago Defender in 1964: "Negro President Possible In Next 25 Years: King."

The article was about King's response to Senator Robert Kennedy's claim that there could be a black president within 40 years.

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dkw
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Ron, why on earth are you addressing me with that? I was just correcting Jeff's citation.
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