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Y'know, I've decided that I really need to start keeping better track of my obsessions and rituals. Normally, I'd do this privately, but it might help to keep me from obsessing about the list of obsessions if other people read it, and you guys generally offer better advice than, say, most of the people who frequent my Livejournal. And maybe you can help me out...sometimes I'm not aware of slipping or of getting better, so maybe it'll help to have outside perspective.
I distinctly remember beginning to obsess in third grade. I remember worrying about two things in particular: following all rules to the absolute letter, and trying to avoid getting pregnant or contracting a disease. Why? I don't know. I was eight. But I was terrified of these things. It disturbed me to see my stomach move when I breathed.
The spiritual obsessions didn't begin until I was in fifth grade. I saw a tv show about Faust, and from then on, I was convinced that if I didn't do certain things, I was going to lose my soul. I don't mean do certain things such as go to church. I mean doing things such as having to avoid cracks on the sidewalk, or always having to step on cracks with a particular foot...things along those lines. I felt so guilty about not finishing the copy of the Hound of the Baskervilles that my teacher gave me that I became physically ill. In sixth grade, it took me forever to complete my literature assignments because I had to read each paragraph over and over and over and over again to make sure I'd read it "right." Sometimes, if I glanced at the wrong part of the page, I had to go back and read the whole story again. I was afraid that if I didn't do this, I was going to go to hell.
Somewhere along there, the concept of bargaining came into play. So not only was I performing extensive, time-consuming rituals (and hating myself for doing them), but I was also constantly arguing with the Not-Me in my head. Because you see, I didn't think that I could be capable of thinking such things, and the thoughts came so out of the blue that I began to see them as coming from some other thing in my mind.
When I was in seventh grade, my best friend told me that we couldn't be friends anymore because people wouldn't be friends with her because she was friends with me because people didn't like me. I'm not kidding; I remember it quite well. That is honestly the reason that she gave.
I went into the TIP summer program that year. I was afraid to touch certain people. I was afraid of sinning. My roommates hated me. And the compulsive re-reading continued. I went again the next year. That's when the blinking started. I had to blink at things a certain number of times. Before I fell asleep at night, I had to stare at the same spot on the wall and blink. The number of times I had to blink kept increasing. A thousand. Two thousand. And if my roommate spoke to me during the blinking, I had to start over. Then I became convinced that I was going to kill one of my friends. I don't know why. A book I'm reading described it very well (concerning a man who was afraid he was going to commit sexually deviant acts):
quote:I was working out on my rowing machine in my basement. My dog was there in the corner. And I started having thoughts and pictures come into my mind of going over and having sex with my dog.
I made my profession of faith after a Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames play. It was just in my head, and it wouldn't stop, and I had to go because I was so afraid that I was going to go to hell. I was baptized. I still had trouble sitting through church services because I was afraid I hadn't done it "right." At one point, I couldn't resist anymore, and I had to go up to the altar again. The people couldn't figure it out. I could see it in their faces. They thought I was weird. I was so ashamed that I could no longer sit through worship services because I was afraid I would have to go up there again.
It got worse and worse. By the beginning of ninth grade, I wasn't wearing my contacts. I wasn't showering. I'd lost a lot of weight. I became unable to put my books in my backpack because Not-Me said I had to carry them in my arms, and I couldn't zip my backpack, either. One night, I became convinced that I had to finish every math problem for the entire semester and consume a large container of buttermilk. Finally, one day my father picked me up from a volleyball game. I had a bottle of half-frozen water with me. Not-Me said that if I spoke before the ice had entirely melted, the entire world was going to be damned to hell.
That's when my parents realized that there was something wrong. Six years after I can remember it starting. Actually, I just remembered an earlier incident. When I was in pre-kindergarten, I once hid in the tube slide so that I wouldn't have to go in from recess. I felt so guilty that when I finally came out, I was so upset that the teacher didn't even punish me. But I was always so terrified of breaking the rules. I made myeslf read the entire honor code every time I signed it, even though it always said the same thing.
At any rate, no one realized there was anything wrong with me until that day in ninth grade. I didn't want anyone to know; I was afraid they would think I was sick or crazy. My parents pulled me out of school. My handwriting had deteriorated because Not-Me made me write in a very specific way. I was failing quizzes because Not-Me said I had to pick a certain letter even though it wasn't the right answer. I spent the next two months seeing a psychiatrist several times a week, taking a lot of medication, waking up at 5am every morning of my own accord, walking through the park a lot...
During that time, during the time when I was periodically afraid to speak, I would sometimes freeze, staring at something. I could hear people talking to me, but I was afraid to talk to them until I had finished the argument in my head. My parents took me to the church youth group. I wanted to go; I thought they could help because I was so afraid of demons and the devil.
This is where I begin to believe that things were just handled in the entirely wrong way. The church, of course, confirmed all of my fears. They told me that there were demons assaulting me, and it might have been happening because I wasn't "really" saved. I began to pray obsessively. They told me to go home and find the things with demonic spirits in them and burn or bury them. I couldn't do it. I was afraid there were demons in everything. In my teddy bear. I couldn't burn him or bury him. I felt sorry for him. It wasn't his fault. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, and I didn't want to abandon him.
I went back to school two months later. I was such a good student that the school made an arrangement so that I wouldn't be penalized. Of course, I was already penalized socially. And I had this stigma attached to me. It didn't help that the psychiatrist had made allusions to some pretty scary mental illnesses.
I'm a lot better now. But I really wish that some of the words that were thrown around...hadn't been. Now that I'm reading about things from other people who also have severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, I realize...I'm not insane. I'm not schizophrenic. I just have trouble accepting that the thoughts that my brain comes up with are actually from myself because I'm horrified that I could ever think such things.
I can touch Bibles now, but I still have very specialized guidelines for how to treat them. The house must be arranged in a specific way before I go to sleep. I'm still terribly afraid of becoming pregnant. That never went away. Freshman year of college, I got so upset right before my period (despite being a virgin), that I would drink excessively in order to kill the "thing" that I thought was growing in me. The fact that my period came soon after only reinforced this association. I was also horrified of taking baths. At least now, I can handle it in a more constructive way: birth control and pregnancy tests. I figure that compulsively taking pregnancy tests is much better than compulsively drinking.
I'm not worried as much about going to hell anymore because one night, I just got really upset and said, "You know what, God? I have absolutely no control over whether or not you change your mind and decide that I should go to hell. This is what I believe about you, and I think I'm saved, and...that's all I can do."
Why am I sharing this now? I need to be less afraid of it. I think being so secretive about it is making things worse; it's making me feel more ashamed. I mean, I'm perfectly open about the fact that I have OCD, but I'm usually very, very secretive about certain rituals and certain fears.
As a result, I will be compiling a list of my fears and corresponding rituals. Some of them I cam unable to write down because I'm afraid that that will make them come true. But some of them, I can talk about. And I think I should.
It's bothering me to post this. I'm going over and over it inside my head, and I'm getting upset. So I'm going to post it before I can convince myself not to, and I'm going to hope that I don't make myself delete it later. Hopefully, I can at least make it through the list. But hey, if nothing else, maybe you guys will learn something about OCD from a first-hand perspective, right?
My subconscious is overly suseptible to suggestion. I can't watch Raiders of the Lost Ark without getting chest pains. So throughout much of your post I thought "Oh great, now I'm going to start doing that too.
quote:Originally posted by pH: ...maybe you guys will learn something about OCD from a first-hand perspective, right?
Well, pH, I already have that first-hand perspective, but I still appreciate that you've posted this, if only for confirmation that I'm not alone. Although I'm fairly sure that I haven't been affected by my OCD as seriously as you seem to be from your description, it does get bad sometimes and mostly people - the people in my life - don't really understand. Probably because I, too, tend to be secretive about my rituals.
Anyway, thanks for posting this.
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I've told you about personal things, and now I can see why you knew so well what I was talking about. Great post.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I used to think I was weird because I would always converse and (more often) argue with the "not me" in my head--to the point of feeling paralyzed. I can definitely relate to obsessing about religion, sin, and going to hell. I've taken up lots and lots of small hobbies that keep me from obsessing about the big stuff, now--and finding a steady girlfriend has been wonderful.
Thanks for posting.
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I'm so glad you posted this, and I'm so sorry you've had to feel so badly for so long. We love you exactly as you are.
Look closely and you will find the gift hidden inside this condition. You have many gifts. They are all tied together with these things which present themselves as trials or afflictions. I think being open about it is a very good thing. I want to show this to Sasha because I think it will mean a lot to him. Thanks for telling us.
Let us know how it goes.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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For many years, OCD was seen as a purely psychological disorder, related to a desire to control one's environment or to undo some perceived wrong action. Insight oriented psychotherapy has been singularly unsuccessful in treating this group of disorders, however. Behavior therapies have had much more success, especially those with specific small steps geared to the exact obsessions.compulsions involved in the individual case.
Behavior therapy has a lot to offer individuals with this disorder. Two common and popular techniques are systematic desensitization and flooding. Systematic desensitization techniques involve gradually exposing the client to ever-increasing anxiety-provoking stimuli. It is important to note here, though, that such a technique should not be attempted until the client has successfully learned relaxation skills and can demonstrate their use to the therapist. Exposing a patient to either of these techniques without increased coping skills can result in relapse and possible harm to the client. Relaxation techniques may include imagery, breathing skills, and muscle relaxation. It is important for the client to find a relaxation technique which works best for them, before attempting something like systematic desensitization or flooding. Flooding allows the patient to face the most anxiety-provoking situation, while using the relaxation skills learned. Systematic desensitization is the preferred technique of the two; flooding is not recommended except in rare uses. Flooding's potential harm usually outweighs its potential benefits (e.g., traumatizing the individual further).
Additional behavior and cognitive-behavioral techniques which may have some effectiveness for people who suffer from this disorder include saturation and thought-stopping. Through saturation, the client is directed to do nothing but think of one obsessional thought which they have complained about. After a period of time of concentration on this one thought (e.g., 10-15 minutes at a time) over a number of days (3-5 days), the obsession can lose some of its strength. Through thought-stopping, the individual learns how to halt obsessive thoughts through proper identification of the obsessional thoughts, and then averting it by doing an opposite, incompatible response. A common incompatible response to an obsessive thought is simply by yelling the word "Stop!" loudly. The client can be encouraged to practice this in therapy (with the clinician's help and modeling, if necessary), and then encouraged to transplant this behavior to the privacy of their home. They can also often use other incompatible stimuli, such as tweaking a rubber-band which is around their wrist whenever they have a thought. The latter technique would be more effective in public, for example. _________________________________________________ One clever technique to systematically desensitive clients to their obsessions involved having the client record their obsessive thoughts unto a tape recorder that has the capacity to loop the recording when played back. The client would then go through sessions of listening to their obsessions for an hour. Eventually, those obsessive thoughts lost all power to evoke anxiety for the person.
Compulsions can be treated by sitting with anxiety without participating in the ritual. Example: touching the bathroom floor with hands then, without washing them going back to the therapy room and just sit staring at the unwashed hands until the anxiety level drops (and then wash them). Of course, the client needs to work up to this, by first touching the bathroom door with a glove, then several steps later, touching the toilet with bare hands, etc.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I've been on drugs for the majority of the past seven years. Most of them either didn't help or had horrible side effects. I started taking Wellbutrin again because it was the only medicine I'd taken for an extended period of time that I'd stopped because I didn't think I needed it anymore and not because it made me shake, feel like a robot, sleep all the time, not be able to focus my eyes...
I also now can take Ativan as needed, which helps because it gives me some control over when I take it and because it does not involve making me feel incredibly drowsy all the time.
As to cognitive-behavioral therapy: At the moment, I'm still learning relaxation techniques and trying to lower my general level of anxiety. To a certain extent, however, that involves satisfying some of my anxieties. For example, I require a ridiculous amount of reassurance from my boyfriend, so my psychiatrist told me that since it was occupying my mind so much, I should just tell him about it and ask him to be more forthcoming with the "I love you."
Actually, I think one of the reasons I watch so many horror movies is to try to desensitize myself to the images. I have very bad nightmares, and I go through periods of time in which I'm afraid that I'm going to knock my teeth out or poke my eye out or drive my car off an overpass. I'm not saying I WANT to do these things, or that I'm TRYING to do these things. It's not a desire to harm myself; it's a fear that somehow, I'm going to do these things.
I've heard that they have intensive two-week programs to help people with severe OCD, but I don't know if my parents would go for that.
I do think that there are some good things that have come out of it. I've learned a lot of self-control from having to keep my rituals private. I've also realized that I seem to learn things in a more intuitive way. It's like I'm making connections between things very, very quickly. A lot of times, school has felt more like it was giving names to things I already knew. I'm not really sure how to explain it so that you would understand what I mean. It's just sort of...really strong intuition. I guess maybe it comes from unconsciously making connections between things all the time. However, it sometimes makes it difficult to teach other people because I don't know how to explain how I came to the "lightbulb moment."
I have a doctor's appointment now. I'm still working on that list.
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pH, some things really can be improved by lessening their hold through talking about them. I really hope this is one. In any event, your posts here are informative and thoughtful, and I appreciate them.
Posts: 1068 | Registered: Aug 2000
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ph, thank you so much for posting that. It's hard to post something so personal but after you do, you realize it's not as hard as you thought it would be. (at least I do). You seem to be very self-aware and honest to yourself and I think these things will help you greatly as you fight to overcome this. I hope you have the courage to continue with this thread. Posts: 464 | Registered: Jul 2004
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pH, this is really tough. I don't have any personal or familial experience with severe OCD, but it occurs to me that you are doing the right things: seeing a psychiatrist for one, and recognizing the obsessions for what they are is another.
I hope that in a few months you can look back and see real progress, and that, over time, you get to the point of control over these problems.
Anxiety disorders can be extremely debilitating and the longer a person goes without learning new, more healthy patterns, the more engrained and unstoppable they become.
If your parents won't go for the more intensive programs, do you have the option of doing the program on your own?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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I re-read an interesting book lately. Douglas Adams' little known travel novel "Last Chance to See." In one chaper he relates how humans might have evolved from a species of tree dwelling mammals with the abiltiy to fly.
The significance is that modern human brains still contain some vestige of the flying instinct; we believe we are capable of, or in need of things which we cannot do. Reading this, I found it incredibly revealing of my own psyche: the compulsion I have always had to jump from a high ledge, or to fling something from it unnexpectedly. There is still something in the human brain which tells us we are capable of doing things we cannot do; and ther there are things in our brains which tell us we must do things we don't need to do in modern society. I find this endlessly fascinating and revealing. We are part of evolution, and we are not perfect or complete as people.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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pH said: "Actually, I think one of the reasons I watch so many horror movies is to try to desensitize myself to the images."
I'd recommend talking to your psychiatrist about this. Desensitization does work, but it has to be done right to work. If it is not done right, it may simply re-traumitize you and reinforce your fears and make your nightmares more frequent. Whether flooding is used or a "gradual working up to more anxiety provoking stimuli" is used, one very important key is that one is exposed to the stimulus long enough to let the body come back to equilibrium. I don't know that horror films are constructed right to give you the kind of exposure that will help. So, just talk with your doctor about it.
Also telling him or her about it can be informative. The fact that you willingly seek out these movies and your brain is often in this anxious state leads me to wonder if anxiety is somehow reinforcing for you (in other words I wonder if you are getting some kind of pay off for being anxious). If I were your psychologist I would like to explore that. Because if we could detect how anxiety is reinforcing, we might be able to find a similar reinforcer that could reduce your brain's need for anxiety without causing all the life interupting problems.
But, then again, maybe there is nothing to that. Well, your doctor would like to know if he does not already. And be sure to ask him or her whether he or she would be comfortable leading you through systematic desensitization as a treatment for OCD. Although it is very effective, some mental health professionals use it and others don't.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I've been working on the list! It's hard to remember everything, since I don't think about a lot of these things unless I haven't done them.
It's in a spreadsheet. Is there a way for me to upload it somewhere?
As for the intensive programs, they're incredibly expensive. It would probably run over $10,000.
What I did end up doing was talking to my therapist, who has referred me to another therapist. So now I have two (within the same institute), and they specialize in different things and have different styles. Also, the institute sometimes has workshops, so I might do one of those. Until then, I'll just get a double dose of therapy.
I've considered you such a cool person I never would have imagined you're having such a hard time.
I certainly don't have 1st hand experience with OCD and I certainly am not qualified to help because my only knowledge is my own experience and a little reading and having a mom who had done a bunch of reading. So I hope you just take my opinions with a grain of salt and I hope no one tells me off for giving non-professional advice.
Anyway, I know exactly what the Not-Me is. The book "I'm Ok, You're Ok" explains how we work. It goes like this:
There are different "Me's" in each of us and each has different cares and needs. One wants to play (the "Child" in us). One wants to obey rules (the "Parent" in us). The third "Me" is the mediator between the two (the "Adult" in us).
Most people have a weak mediator and so most people are dominated by one or the other and that leads to the other being neglected. The solution is to strengthen the mediator. The best way to do that is to begin to recognise that your "ok" and not really abnormal to have conflicting wants and needs.
And the same goes for other people. It is pretty easy to understand people's quirks when you realize it is their undisciplined/playful "Child" talking or their critical/dominering "Parent" and not their reasonable "Adult". All 3 are ok. But you have to understand where each is coming from and if you want to be playful and someone else is being critical, it will lead to a fight. Your Adult can see this happen and stop your Child from fighting with the other person. Your Child we be disappointed, but you wont say anything that will destroy your relationship with the other person.
As a kid, most of your peers were dominated by their Child and you were dominated by your Parent so that explains why they didn't like you. I guess you overcame that somewhat because I got the feeling you have a very active Child because of things you've posted here (you've sounded like a very fun person).
Anyway, I was very negative about reading the book because I didn't want to read any physcobabble. But the first chapter introduced the whole topic in such a way that I was hooked. Some doctor did awake brain experiments on some people and discovered that by touching various parts of the brain, he could induce memories so real, the patients relived the whole memory detail for detail, even smells.
Based on the info from that, some people concluded the brain is a big video recorder and that data never really goes away. We may forget it on the surface, but it is all there. And the "Parent" and "Child" in each of us relies on that recorder to decide how to behave. This is why we often make decisions we don't understand.
The problem is, our worlds' change, but most of us quit recording when we grow up, so as adults we never update our data. So we make decisions based on outdated recordings. The best example is the elephant. As a baby, you can tie an elephant up and it will try to escape and eventually give up trying to get away. For the rest of its life, it will never try to get away again, even when it grows up to be so big a simple step would be freedom.
The "Adult" in us is what updates our data, and it is a hard process that involves being able to identify what we learned as a child that led us to come to our conclusions.
--
Now my story. I read the book because I was having serious trouble. When I was growing up my father was very abusive. He turned red and foamed at the mouth when he yelled and could go for hours and he hit us often enough.
Well, as I got older I was turning into him. Not the same ways, but enough. So I went looking for help and I remember my mom (my mom was nothing like him) having that book so I bought it. Reading that book was only the part of the solution. I still see my dad regularly in an attempt to "update" my data.
He is aging. He can't hit me. Nor can he yell at me. I've simply learned how to manipulate him so that he wont do those things. But until very recently he could still sigh and give dramatic silent pauses that sent chills down my spine.
His inner soul is starting to finally show on his face as well. So if his community still wants to embrace him, at least I know they know what he is. But I won't force them to accept it. In fact, I don't tell this to anyone outside my immediate family. I don't want anyone to be able to connect this story with who I really am bad enough that I almost set up an alternate identity to post this. But you didn't, and I'm a risk taker, so I wont.
Anyway, it is working. I'm finally able to be in his presense and not go crazy. I've often wanted to drive into oncoming traffic after being with him. I have complete control over myself and never would, but the desire to do it has been very strong. But now I no longer feel these super self destructive feelings and I'm getting in control of the smaller versions as well. In fact, I'm able to be "Adult" in his presense and actually *watch* him do his thing and respond non-emotionally (not hurt, not attack-mode, etc). The effect being that I can see how he has made me feel and after I leave him I can do things that make me feel better.
Anyway, I highly recommend the book just simply because it is like the missing-manual for being a human. I hope something I've said helps! Good luck!
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
The most I have ever seen in terms of OCD is a person who kisses his Tzitzit for every word in the Shema Yisrael rituals; he also (when singing one of the liturgical songs after the meal) goes over every note of the tune, whether there is a syllable appointed to it. That is, if he loses the place he will recite quickly the remaining words (religiously understandable) and the rest of the tune (unusual).
My point being, I know a bit about OCD and how it affects people - but I have never come in contact with a story such as yours. Thank you most keenly for sharing; it is a good, moral lesson in how to nit judge people.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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With all the religion-oriented discussions popping up around here, now might be a good time to spell out my real problem with Southern Baptists. I know a couple of people here have pointed out that I seem to have a lot of hostility. I do. I also have a lot of hostility toward my first two psychiatrists.
Here is a huge part of where my anger comes from.
pH: I'm scared to death. I think the devil is getting into my head. Church: DEMONS ARE GETTING INTO YOUR HEAD! YOU WERE NOT SAVED "RIGHT." IF YOU WERE SAVED "RIGHT," DEMONS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD! REPENT! SAVE YOUR SOUL! FIND THE OBJECTS IN YOUR HOUSE WITH DEMONIC SPIRITS IN THEM AND EITHER BURN OR BURY THEM! pH: *starts to think there are demonic spirits in EVERYTHING, including her teddy bear. Is unable to burn or bury anything. Feels sorry for the inanimate objects and doesn't want them to feel abandon them. Also feels incredibly guilty and damned to hell for not doing what the church said*
pH: Doctor, the church says they think I have demons in my head. Psychiatrist #1: Well, there definitely is a dark spiritual energy around you when you freeze up. It wouldn't surprise me.
pH: Doctor, I think I'm crazy. Psychiatrist #2: You're crazy. Actually, this declaration of my insanity was from a combination of the doctor and a nurse. The doctor gave me a scary diagnosis, and the nurse said something along the lines of, "That's true craziness."
But this isn't really about my first two psychiatrists and how much I would sometimes like to kick them in the junk. This is about the Southern Baptist church I went to when I was younger.
It was incredibly damaging to me to have my fears essentially realized by my youth pastor and other respected members of the church. On top of that, they had put a fear of hell in me so great that it took me six years to be able to attend a worship service again, and that was a Quaker meeting. In all honesty, I don't think I'll ever be able to go back there, partly because I'd probably be overwhelmingly tempted to find my old youth pastor and tell him that thanks to his "ministry," I spent a decade of my life (10-20) in the seventh level of hell. I lived in an incredibly heightened state of shame and fear. When I say "incredibly heightened," I mean much more so than that in which I live right now, but it's worth pointing out that my shame and fear levels are generally extremely high to begin with. I live in constant, unwavering fear of certain things: pregnancy, my boyfriend breaking up with me, bodily harm, disease, failure, saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing...
To be honest, I'm also terrified of others trying to heap too much guilt on me because I don't know if there will be a breaking point after which I go back to the way I was. That's the thing. I don't need OTHER PEOPLE to make me feel guilty. I have quite an overactive conscience to begin with. I have trouble taking out the trash because I don't want the garbage to feel abandoned. Garbage bags will pile up at the door until my boyfriend comes over and takes them down to the dumpster because I can rarely bring myself to do it. Unfortunately, the Christian perspective I was always taught is that if one feels guilty about something, it is clearly wrong. But I feel guilty about EVERYTHING. It makes no logical sense that God would be angry with me for taking out the trash, so obviously that standard doesn't work for everyone.
I really don't know what it is that made me less afraid of hell. It's a very recent development. Within the last year, something just snapped inside me. It's not that I'm rejecting religion or spirituality. In all honesty, I think I'm going to go back to one of those Quaker meetings soon. It's as if I've somehow realized that these things truly do come from inside my mind. That's how long it took me to actually realize that this is a brain issue and not a demon in my head. From age ten to age twenty. I firmly believe that a lot of anguish could have been avoided if people had just stopped reinforcing my fears.
posted
I'm glad you're doing better than before pH. It's sad when religion is responsible for damaging people, as it seems was the case for you. Superstition should not take the place of modern science and medicine when those are necessary.
We're not in the stone age here. You don't sacrifice a goat to the sun god when your crops fail. Nobody should tell a troubled youth to burn her belongings, rather than seek reputable medical help. Don't let anyone make things harder for you.
I hope you continue to improve. It sounds like you're much more aware of your difficulties, and how you might go about dealing with them, rather than be trapped into making them worse.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I really sympethize (not empethize, because I don't have OCD) My mother has DID: Pretty much, mutiple personality disorder... Only she is aware of the changes, and can see her seperate personalities take over... it's like the midpoint before ending up like Sybil.
Believe me, we've heard about how it's demons in her head, or that she's 'playacting' and that's it's all just in her head.
And the sympethetic churches are convinced that cognitive therapy is the only way.
She was sexually molested by at least two people, told her mother who didn't believe her, and hasn't remembered all of this until the last couple of years. Since then she's seen a therapist, and is working on it. Her therapy appears far from over, allthough she hasn't had to go to a mental institution for a while.
Anyway, I find the church very unwilling to accept mentally ill people... They don't realize how extremely normal all of these people are. They aren't violent, they are ill!
Religion, regardless of what type, will always have a profound effect on people. I've always respected the firm resolute and umcompromising nature of Southern Baptists (in general) as much as I hate the subborness and close-mindedness.
Actually, there's been a patern emerging in people suffering from DID: A lot of patients have been raised in devil worship... Not wicca, but devil worship, with sexual rituals and the whole deal.
And some people, I'm sure, are offended that I would compare some churches with devil worship, but, other than I do believe the churches are getting into heaven, I don't see much of a difference.
Anyway, I want you to know that If you really love God, and believe in him, than you are under no obligation to read your Bible or go to church. For me, personally, they have helped... But given your circumstances, I absolutely understand why these things would pose problems, rather than help.
Anyway, I really believe that it was really brave of you to post. And, although I'm sure that you know this, you are not going to hell for having a mental illness that makes it difficult to be around churches and Bibles... I believe that God and the Bible are completely seperate than church. And I believe that you can have a compeltely functional relationship with God without having to put up with the... human side of Christianity. And I hope that you will get better. :~)
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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Wow, pH, I am so moved by your story. I've always thought that you seemed like a really cool person, but now, after seeing what you've gone through, I admire you even more. If you need anyone to talk to, I've been told that I'm a good listener.
Hang in there. It looks like you're (finally) getting the help you need.
Posts: 1789 | Registered: Jul 2003
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So I guess I should've expected this sort of thing.
First of all, I've gotten some kind of kidney infection, so I'm too tired to clean or decorate, which is how I usually deal with big anxiety. Television or books don't work because for some reason they don't distract my brain enough for me to let go of whatever it is until I can talk to someone about it.
See, I get ridiculously anxious about things that I probably shouldn't. I become suspicious of people over little things. And part of that also comes from my past; when you've been emotionally (and physically, at one point) abused by someone who "loved" you, you get a little gun shy, especially when it comes to close friends and boyfriends.
So I was too sick to do anything on a large scale to try to deflect these feelings, and I decided to try to talk to one of my good friends about it. Then the subject of this trip my boyfriend and I are taking came up, and I told her that it annoyed me that he'd led me to believe for a month that we were going to Europe, when he knew that we couldn't. She, for some reason, took this as me being selfish. She said that we haven't been together that long, so even the suggestion that he might take me on a trip should be enough to satisfy me. Well, there are two things wrong with this: first of all, we had picked dates for the trip and had started to plan it out. Secondly, he isn't taking me on a trip. He isn't paying for me. We are taking a trip together, and we're splitting the cost. But she didn't seem to understand that.
So it turned into a crazy fight, and I asked her what she really thought of me, and she told me that she thought I was a nutjob and that all I ever do is blow things out of proportion, that I sabotage all my good relationships, that I don't value honesty (because she was just being "honest" and a "good friend" in criticizing me in whatI felt was an overly harsh manner). The girl's minoring in psychology, so she thinks she's qualified to analyze people's lives, even though we haven't seen each other in three years and pretty much solely converse through the Internet nowadays. Oh, and sometimes I just harp on things so much that it gets annoying.
Well, great. I trusted her enough to tell her these things that make me feel so ashamed. I mean, I hate myself for how worked up I get. I get so upset that I can't even control my own mind. I just feel that if she knows so much about psychology, she should know better than that. You know?
So anyways, I've pretty much just been a ball of anxiety and depression for the last couple of weeks. I haven't had an appetite all week, but that could just be the infection. I don't mean that my stomach feels hungry, but I don't want to eat. I mean that my stomach feels full. All the time. Even if I haven't eaten all day. And if I try to eat and I eat too much or too often, I feel sick and overfull. So I've been trying to make myself eat two meals a day consisting of really high-calorie foods because I'm kind of afraid that I'm going to slip below that 1200-a-day line.
But there is some good news: we put down the deposit on the cruise, and I bought tickets to Discovery Cove yesterday. I love dolphins. And my boyfriend has been really patient with reassuring me, although I'm always afraid he'll get sick of having the, "Are you mad?" "No." "Are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure." "...are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure" "Are you going to be mad later?" "No." "Why?" conversation over and over again. I don't know why, but I just feel the need to ask him questions about how he feels over and over again. Fortunately, he's patient, and he puts up with it.
Having two therapists is helping a lot, especially because they have different styles. One's a Gestalt therapist, and one's a psychiatrist who focuses on psychotherapy instead of medication, and who will let me make my own decisions regarding medicine. And I'm going to start going to group therapy next week, too. Triple therapy!
I've been really nervous about the group therapy though. I was asked to go a few weeks ago, and I keep giving excuses as to why I haven't gone. I'm just really nervous about being in that kind of environment. I don't know what I could really talk about face-to-face, in a room full of people. And what if I'm the most eccentric one there? That's how it was the last time I did anything like group therapy. It made me feel even more isolated.
I don't know. I think I'm going to try to clean, until I get worn out. And maybe I'll go to the mall or pick up some paint brushes and finish painting my cabinets. Or put together the table I bought. The only problem is finding the energy.
posted
Wow. Most of the members of my family have some degree or another of OCD (including me), so I understand the kind of thing you're going through ... though not the degree.
When I was a kid, I had these weird compulsions to make noises. I thought I was being subtle and quiet about them, until one my mom suddenly went, "STOP DOING THAT, YOU'RE DRIVING ME CRAZY!"
It's weird the amount of willpower that it took me to stop. After that, it turned into rolling my eyes behind my eyelids, which sometimes had to be accompanied by making a really embarrassing face. I had to force myself to stop that one, too, when other kids at school noticed.
Later on, as an adult, I had a blinking thing which looked kind of like a twitch. My wife tried to tell me it was cute, but I stopped it anyway
Obviously, from the fact that I could stop these things when I really needed to, you can tell that my OCD is pretty darn mild. The parts of it that really get to me though are the ones that actually are aligned with reality to some degree. Like when I feel obsessively guilty about something, or when I can't let go of having said or done something "wrong" socially and embarrassed myself.
The problem there is the fact that it's not some obvious fantasy or compulsion. I really do think that the things I did were wrong or embarrassing. The only problem is, no one besides me thought they were worth remembering for more than 30 seconds Still, when there's a little kernel of reality behind a compulsion, that only makes it that much harder to shake.
Anyway, obviously, after a post like pH's, my issues look downright pathetic I mostly just wanted to show that there are people here who understand, who know what it's like to deal with an unruly and sometimes cruel mind, and that you have no reason to worry about anything around us
I'm glad things are on the upslope for you, pH! Good luck!
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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This has been a really bad week for me. I'm not sure why. I guess because I had breakfast with my abusive ex a week ago, and he tried to justify what he did...for example, he did not hit me. He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.
Clearly, my vivid memory of being held down on the bed and pummeled in the face is incorrect.
I mean, I felt good about it at first, seeing him. Because I made him cry, and it felt really, really good to see him all weepy. But maybe it made me more prickly toward my boyfriend. I don't know.
Y'see, my boyfriend's truck is broken, so he's been borrowing his mom's car. So he can't sleep over anymore, and we don't get to have lunch together. Which means pretty much that we see each other between one and five in the morning. And at first, I could handle it. I asked him to write me notes when he left so that I could read them when I got up, and I saved them, and I would reread them whenever I got a little panicky. Because a lot of times I panic if I wake up and he isn't there, except I can't quite figure out what's wrong, and I go wandering through the house trying to figure out what's missing. But it's just been getting to me now. I'm just always afraid that he's using me.
And my friends...I don't know. I mean, I bought two tickets to Pirates last night, and no one would go with me. So I didn't go either because I didn't want to see happy people hanging out with their friends and having people who care about them.
Pretty much every night, I have to take Ativan, and I fall asleep crying. I keep hoping that when I wake up, I won't still be crying. It's not working too well.
Last night, I was running out to grab something to eat when I ran into a guy I'll call Mr. Rogers because he's my neighbor who lives in this building. He likes to talk a lot. So I told him hey, it's too late to go to Pirates, so do you want to come hang out and have drinks and watch cartoons or something?
Now, the guy reminds me of my older brother. He's a nice guy. He likes to entertain. He hung out with me during the last blackout, and he gave me a ride down to the Bywater when I needed to go and made sure I got to the venue safe and everything. Like I said, he always reminded me of my older brother, and they're probably around the same age (my brother is 41).
He didn't drink at all. I had one screwdriver. A. Single. Uno. And Michael called, and I talked to him briefly but didn't want to be rude to Mr. Rogers, but I deliberately was within earshot when I told Michael that I love him and that I'd talk to him in the morning. Because I was going out of my way not to be flirty JUST IN CASE. But I never thought I actually needed to be worried.
Until Mr. Rogers crawled over to my side of the couch and tried to kiss me. I put my hand on the middle of his chest and shoved him away. Hard. All the way back to his side of the couch. And kept talking like nothing had happened. He waited like ten minutes before leaving, but I'm pretty sure that's why he left. And that upset me a lot because I thought he was my friend, and he's not.
So I couldn't sleep last night because I kept having bad dreams, and Michael never called. And then I had to go to a urologist, and the waiting room was full of old men, and the doctor himself likes to TALK REALLY LOUD WITH THE DOOR OPEN AND ASK EMBARASSING QUESTIONS ABOUT MY SEX LIFE. I felt like I was in the sex principal's office being lectured on my private no-no area. Then he suggested that he put a stick up there or something to dilate the urethra, and I must've looked like I was about to jump out a window because then he changed his mind and just gave me a kidney ultrasound. The other people in the office were really understanding, but this doctor just like...didn't seem to get it.
Then I had to go to the pharmacy to get my prescriptions filled, and he said to ask the pharmacist if the medicine would affect my birth control and if so to call him back and he'll try to find another one. So I scoot up to the pharmacy counter and, thank God, the hot Asian guy didn't come to take my prescription. He usually does, and he knows my name and stuff, but I was not looking forward to that conversation...so I asked the girl, who tried as best she could to answer my questions quietly and quickly because there was some frat boy dude and some guy in an army uniform standing behind me.
So that is my fun happy adventure life. And Michael still hasn't called, although he just texted, and I think he's mad at me, but I really don't want him to be, and I'm reading into his text as something cold and ominous because I'm already feeling so bad.
Oh yeah, and I didn't go to group therapy this week. I drove there, but it looked like maybe nobody was there. I mean, I didn't look too hard, but I would've been really embarassed if I'd run into the therapist, and she'd laughed and told me that group was cancelled. So I left.
a random internet stranger (me) is very impressed by your story and offers whatever meaningful support can possibly be relayed by text. I wish you well!
p.s.
quote:pH: Doctor, the church says they think I have demons in my head. Psychiatrist #1: Well, there definitely is a dark spiritual energy around you when you freeze up. It wouldn't surprise me.
grr vitalistic metaphysic psychoanalysis
quote:The girl's minoring in psychology, so she thinks she's qualified to analyze people's lives
grr hiss grr debasing ameteur psychological lecture
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Someone can't remember her password and doesn't want to take the chance of bothering Papa Moose at this time of night. (You just know if he saw a request, he'd stay up and answer it. Bless him.)
I'm so tired! *yaaawwwwn
But I was feeling bad for pH. It's a tough, long row to hoe.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jun 2006
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pH, good luck, dear! I'm sorry things have been difficult lately. It's obvious to me from reading this thread that you're strong and resiliant, seeing some of the things that you've come through, with your selfness intact. I have faith that you will overcome these difficulties too. Take care of yourself. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, pH.
quote:He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.
I've heard this explanation - or ones just like it - so many times from men charged with domestic assault and battery. It's apparently a popular story.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have to admit that I feel some sort of need to stick up for "Mr. Rogers" in this situation. It sounds like he actually behaved near-ideally, according to the etiquette of the situation.
The situation, from his POV: an attractive single girl with whom you've socialized in the past invites you up to her apartment late in the evening to watch movies on her couch. You're an older man who probably doesn't see a lot of action, so you think "yahoo." Her boyfriend calls, but she speaks to him only briefly and he doesn't seem overly upset that you're there. You try to kiss her, but she puts you off hard and completely ignores the advance, not even acknowledging it or making a joke to cover the awkwardness. You realize you've completely misread the situation somehow and want to slink under a rock and die, but don't want to offend her by exiting immediately -- so you hang out for a little while longer, then split as soon as it's realistic without being rude.
I wouldn't write him off as a friend, Pearce. Especially for a guy from the older side of our generation -- to whom an invitation like this one unambiguously means "let's go back to my apartment and make out," unless something else is explicitly stated -- I think he reacted fairly well to your signals as he picked up on them. That he left after ten minutes and didn't try to persuade you to go any further with him is enormously to his credit, believe it or not.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, pH.
quote:He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.
I've heard this explanation - or ones just like it - so many times from men charged with domestic assault and battery. It's apparently a popular story.
I know! I told him that, and he started crying and shortly after got out of the car. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it happened that once, and that was it, and he only split my lip open. So on the physical abuse scale, not THAT bad, but he just really, honestly believes that he's a good guy who's always the victim of bad circumstances. Thing is, he got drunk and hit a girl who broke up with him recently, as well, only she had him arrested (after she defended herself with a kitchen chair or something). So it wasn't an isolated incident.
And Tom, the thing that I don't get is just...like, he knows I have a boyfriend, and I'm deliberately sending these I AM NOT FLIRTING WITH YOU signals, and he still tried to kiss me. It just seems weird to me, and I guess the reason it upsets me is...yeah, because that seems like a non-friend thing to do. Because now, I'm going to feel like I have to be extra EXTRA careful not to be flirty if I hang out with him.
quote:I'm deliberately sending these I AM NOT FLIRTING WITH YOU signals...
Is it possible that you aren't sending the signals you think you're sending? I remember how, a few years ago, you complained often about men who'd accuse you of being a "tease;" while I've always found that complaint reprehensible from men for any reason, it's conceivable that what you think is a "I AM NOT FLIRTING WITH YOU" signal is being interpreted as something different. I'm always a fan of making that kind of negation explicit for precisely this reason.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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And you wouldn't be the first person to be looking for a little something on the side while having a boyfriend. So it's possible he didn't think it was serious or thought you didn't care.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I'm with Tom on the Mr. Rogers scenario. Maybe when you are feeling better you could have a chat with him about it...or not. I usually let the woman make the first move even in situations where I was pretty sure for exactly this reason -- a couple of instances early in my "dating" life where I completely misread the situation and got shut down. I felt like a total creep, when really it was at least ambiguous (in retrospect).
So...anyway, the abusive ex...I'll just say it out fast and hard -- crying is no more a sign of remorse than beating you was a sign of love. In my experience, such men use emotions in a manipulative manner, often in a very conscious way. I won't say the tears are fake -- probably if you hooked the guy up to a polygraph, you'd see evidence of strong emotion, but if he's still re-writing history (the old "you hit yourself" thing), then he's still an abuser, and living in a fantasy.
I was going to say I hope your days get better, but it sounds like they'd almost have to.
Maybe I'll just hope you hit fewer bumps in the road this week.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote: Unfortunately, the Christian perspective I was always taught is that if one feels guilty about something, it is clearly wrong.
Boy am I glad I didn't go to any of those churches. I didn't get a conscience so the last thing I'd need is someone telling me whatever I'm doing must be ok since I don't feel guilty.
I'm not OCD. I can use a pen with blue ink if there's no black ink handy. I'll use the rubber covered paperclips if the metal ones are on the other side of the room.
But I always take an even number of bites of my food. I always alternate which side of my mouth I chew on, starting with the right. (Which I still don't think is that weird although it seems to freak other people out.) A certain amount of habit-rituals seem to be inherent to all of us. My bf has some kind of issue with the number of papertowels he uses and our buddy always has to have three icecubes in his drink.
I guess what I'm saying is you're not as weird as you think, pH. We all do it to some degree. I know that doesn't make it all better, but I hope it helps a little.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Oh, I know he probably doesn't have any remorse, Bob. But I definitely loved seeing him cry.
I dunno if I'll be able to talk to Mr. Rogers again or not. It bugs me, and I don't really think I even want to bring it up or speak to him again. At least, that's how I feel right now. I'm just angry with everyone and really irritable, as well. Michael came over last night, and I'd fallen asleep...and when I woke up, I was still really irritated, so he let me go back to sleep for a little while and went out and got four pints of ice cream, which we ate while watching my new Simpsons dvds. The biggest problem for me is that when I feel this way, my compulsions get a lot worse. So I call people compulsively, count things, freak out about disease, obsess over whether the walls I'm painting are perfect enough...lately, I've been worrying about my tortoise. He just flipped himself over on his back, and I wonder if he's unhappy and trying to hurt himself. I know he's a tortoise and probably doesn't think like that, but I want him to be happy, and I feel like I'm not doing a good job.
Bah. I just feel bad about myself all around. I think I'm going to go take a nap and then go back to the gym again.
quote:He just flipped himself over on his back, and I wonder if he's unhappy and trying to hurt himself. I know he's a tortoise and probably doesn't think like that....
Forgive me. But I find the idea of a suicidal tortoise hysterically funny. Particularly if he were manic-depressive.
If I were still making student films, this would be my next subject. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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reading up on tortoises, is yours climbing the wall of its enclosure, or do you have other steep-sided objects in there that it needs to navigate (e.g., to get water or food)?
Apparently this is not unheard of, but can be dangerous for the animal if it panics and/or gets overheated.
It's not like a purposeful behavior, but tortoises aren't genetically geared to deal with steep sided things, apparently.
You might try putting things in the environment that it could use to right itself just to see what kind of modifications you might want to make to its environment.
The one I read about was "climbing" up walls and would fall backwards as a consequence. Apparently they aren't wired to learn that this behavior results in tipping over.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Forgive me. But I find the idea of a suicidal tortoise hysterically funny. Particularly if he were manic-depressive.
I find the idea of a schizo-effective tortoise even funnier. Bi-polar is just so last year don't you think? I CERTAINLY THINK SO!!!!!!!!
Arg.. so depressed
(note: I wan't exactly sure how to convey manic-depression in a single post. However, look over a longer thread and you'll see the progression )
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: The one I read about was "climbing" up walls and would fall backwards as a consequence. Apparently they aren't wired to learn that this behavior results in tipping over.
How could anyone have any faith in Darwinism after reading THAT?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The fact that things aren't perfect is evidence FOR descent with natural selection, and against an intelligent designer who worked it all out in advance. Presumably the Designer would have thought of these things and provided for them.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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<just as an aside, to answer your question, and not to hijack pH's thread into another evolution vs. creationism thread, or anything> Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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