posted
I like the advice which requires me to do nothing.
Actually it doesn't it requires a tremendous effort on my part, but it is a good idea anyway. I suppose I haven't found that person who I really like to be with, and would want to be with romantically. The getting to know my own reactions to others is a good idea too midnightblue, so I will use that. Pay attention to my own comfort level with people: am I forcing myself to spend time with someone? Am I refusing to let myself open up to someone who DOES interest me?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Orincoro: Here's my advice to you: Get to know yourself better. Become more comfortable with who you are. You don't have to be "On" or "Off." Both the quiet side and the expressive side are parts of your personality. You can be quiet and introspective, while still being interesting and funny and entertaining.
Once you get more confidence in yourself, and feel more comfortable with the girls you go out with, so that you don't feel like an aggressor or feel that you have to behave a certain way, you'll be able to just have fun and go with the flow.
Dates should be fun. You have to put a little work into it, but it's not predatory, and it's not a job interview. You just want to have a good time with someone and get to know them better.
One last piece of advice. You mentioned a two hour date. Don't go on a two hour date until the third or fourth date. First date and second date should be fun and easy and fairly quick. Try a cup of coffee, or a round of mini-golf.
You want to hang out for half an hour to an hour, in a casual place so you can both relax and there's no pressure. If things don't go so hot, you can call it a night after the coffee or the last putt, no hard feelings.
No need to torture each other for another hour and a half if you're not having fun. If things go well, you leave on an up note, and you call her in a few days to set up another date. If things go super awesome, you can extend the date a little, get some food or take a walk.
If you see dating as a scary chore, you're not going to have fun or come off well. If you look it as an adventure, a way to meet someone new, it's not a big deal.
You should be able to have a decent conversation with just about anyone for half an hour over coffee.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sorry, I got nothing. I have a lot of the same problems, and you probably wouldn't like my solution -- resigning yourself to dying alone.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pH: I'd say it's better to relax, not girlfriend-hunt or wife-hunt, and just try to have a good time without worrying about the dating regulations.
Absolutely. girlfriend* or wife hunting has a desperate quality to it, and nothing is more unattractive than desperation. Well, maybe gaping, stinking, maggot ridden sores on exposed parts of the body are more unattractive, but desperation is a close second.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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You know, I'm with you, Orincoro. I don't understand why the girl you first posted about refused to return your calls. Even if you did offend her (and I don't get how), anyone interested in a relationship needs to work through the occasional offense. I admit it, I'm dense when it comes to understanding the emotions of my own sex. I'm all for expression of emotion in declarative sentences.
Funnily enough, I married a guy who'd never had a serious relationship, who often complains about not understanding other people, and whose insides don't match his outside (people assume he's shy when they meet him. Then they see him around me and think that he's got an insane sense of humor and loves to babble away. Myself, I'm not sure if he's got a good sense of humor, or if he's just warped at some fundamental level.)
Suffice it to say, you probably won't be single forever. And in a way, you're lucky. At least you seem to be able to filter people very early on. People who don't like the real you disappear. Not fun while it's happening, but wonderful when you meet that someone who sticks around.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2000
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It doesn't seem like they knew each other THAT well, though. I mean, it's not a relationship. And before it turns into a relationship, the chances of being ditched because of offending the other person are pretty high.
...and then when it IS a relationship, you get to listen to me leaving you angry voicemail!
posted
I think the rule that "Love shows up when least expected" applies mostly when you're acting like a spaz trying to get someone to like you. The more relaxed you are, the more you are acting like yourself, the more attractive you are. So when you stop "trying", you're more likely to get a date.
Note that trying is in quotes. By this I don't mean you literally stop making an effort, or that you don't go on dates. I mean you don't make a huge deal about the date.
The date should just be fun. You go on a date with the intent to get to know someone a little better and have a good time with them. Don't go on a date interviewing the other person for the open girlfriend job you're trying to fill.
At the same time, you shouldn't stop going on dates or meeting people because you think Love will just show up at your door. You have to make an effort to go out and have a good time and meet people and talk to them and get to know them. Just don't make picking someone up your main goal.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: I think the rule that "Love shows up when least expected" applies mostly when you're acting like a spaz trying to get someone to like you. The more relaxed you are, the more you are acting like yourself, the more attractive you are. So when you stop "trying", you're more likely to get a date. ...At the same time, you shouldn't stop going on dates or meeting people because you think Love will just show up at your door. You have to make an effort to go out and have a good time and meet people and talk to them and get to know them. Just don't make picking someone up your main goal.
Good advice. Whenever I get caught up in something or confused in anyway, and I don't know what to do or how to go about something I just tell myself 'Just live man' and it seems to work. If you have no worries and you aren't trying to hard people are going to notice and take note of that. Just ask yourself, would you go out with the girl that tries her best to get a laugh out of you but it just doesn't work, or would you go out with the one that cracks a good joke now and then while in between showing that shes got a life outside of you. If you ask me I would go for the second one, and I'm pretty sure that most girls would go for the corresponding guy version too. Just take a chill pill and relax, it helps.
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I don't think when you stop trying you get a date, I just think that you are less likely to have a series of bad dates if you aren't so eager to go out with any girl/guy who seems nice.
And long dates are the best! All of my first dates from my serious relationships have been 4+ hours. Of course they weren't all planned to be that way...
Posts: 484 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
If you want a relationship with someone, you need to get past a minor offense or two, especially unintended ones.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2000
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"I do know that I would always rather be someone's friend than date them, because it seems "safer" and I know it is easier."
I know how that feels, and it can be very frustrating. I think taking the time to get to know her, you'll be alright. Women (at least women like me) want a guy they can feel close to, and I think someone who starts out as a friend is much more likely to be compatable with her.
Posts: 1789 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
But pH, all the romantic love stories in the movies start off with the lovers hating and battling eachother... but the blows turn suddently into embraces, and the wrestling match turns into vigorous sex. I would love to attract a woman by challenging her to physical combat... it would be a great outlet for me.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
But of course you can kick all men's asses, you're like a guyfriend who just happens to have boobs you can make out with!
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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OK, we're on the second page, so I can say this without being too insensitive.
Did anyone else mentally add "Baby don't hurt me" with a club-mix beat to the first sentence in the title?
Lots of the advice you've gotten here is very good. One thing I would strongly caution against is trying to change that duality (entertainer, quiet guy). Some reflection as to whether the entertainer you is a reaction to insecurity might be worthwhile. But don't go to a party or out with a group thinking you need to be a certain way. You will end up being terribly unattractive to everyone and will have a terrible time.
There is someone out there who will both love you for the different moods you have and naturally move you between those moods in a rhythm you would not otherwise have. It's worth waiting for her.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
No, yeah, Tom's right. Think of it as going to grab a burger with your buddy -- the more casual you are, the more chicks'll want to be with you. Boyfriends should be an escape, a safe place, where women can be themselves and not worry about judgement or frantic worrying; sort of like how friends, in general, should be. Just plus sex.
Relax and crack a few jokes and don't make her uncomfortable. You'll do fine. When she wants to get more serious, she'll either do it herself or make it clear to you that she wants you to step up. And if you make her wait a little, she'll want you even more.
Pop psychology's a wonderful creature...
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I'll second (third? fourth?) that love comes when least expected.
Though when it does come, and you're certain, sometimes you have to be ready to fight for it tooth and nail.
Metaphorically speaking, of course.
I should also note, from experience, not to underestimate the power of touch. Nothing has to be too intimate, but sometimes just touching or holding someone's hand can say more than words, in the right circumstances. And sometimes it can let you know if someone is being receptive or you're imagining things.
quote:But of course you can kick all men's asses, you're like a guyfriend who just happens to have boobs you can make out with!
Never gonna get to live that one down, are you, pH?
Incidentally, my kung-fu instructor was a 5'1" woman and unquestionably capable of kicking my ass six ways from Sunday. Remarkable person.
quote:Did anyone else mentally add "Baby don't hurt me" with a club-mix beat to the first sentence in the title?
Whoa-ho-oh-oh-oh-eh-oh-oh....Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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Um, well, it's not like I've played the field a bunch, but I think you're really trying to hard... Thinking about it too hard... First of all, you're certainly not abnormal. Many guys, especially in college start feeling lonely.
Just be yourself. Don't be in a hurry. You're 21, young, and will probably end up getting married. If not, then you need to be confortable with yourself to accept that you will be lonely sometimes.
Mostly, in movies and books and media in general, guys are always flirtatious, and it's the women who worry about becoming old maids or whatever... they feel lonely. But you are not abnormal for feeling lonely. Just relax... But telling someone to 'just relax' is easy for somebody else to say. If you really can't relax, then I'm wrong, and it goes deeper than what I think it is. And in that case, I'm really sorry for trivilizing your feelings. (I'm not being fescetious)
But, again, you're young. At 21, you've got plently of life ahead of you to find somebody... Or for somebody to find you.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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Here's another bit of advice. Date a lot of people. Seriously, it's like anything, the more practice you get, the better you will be at it. Also, the more people you meet on dates, the more you'll figure out who you do and do not want to go out with.
Asking a girl out is scary. That is, until you've done it a dozen times, then it's no big deal. You just go up to a cute girl, strike up a conversation, and ask for her number. Cake.
Plus, the more dates you go on, the more comfortable you'll be around people of the opposite sex, the more confident you'll be, and the more fun you'll have. It's a lot more fun to go on even a pretty good date than to sit at home worrying about how dateless you are.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
My best advice about love: How can you expect anyone to love you, if you don't love yourself first?
Change the "love" to "know" and you get an equally valuable little lesson.
As I'm 21 myself, I'm not saying you have to know exactly who you are. But you should atleast tack some things down or accept that you're beginning a life journey of self-discovery. That means doing some serious thinking about this "double personality" thing you have going.
I'm a girl and so my perspective is different, but I met my boyfriend during a time when I was making some big changes in my life and outlook and was in no way looking for a relationship. And then one day we ran into each other campus (we're classmates but had never talked) and struck up a conversation while walking to fee payment. The first few weeks, I never even contemplated dating him. I was just looking for a friend. We never did the typical step-by-step dating plan. We were just acquaintances and then the mutal attraction and some pushy friends sent it to the next level.
I didn't date before I met him and yet I'm in a relationship where we both see marriage as future possibility.
The big hurdle is accepting and enjoying singledom. When you think of being single as lonely or bad, then you're already sending out the wrong message subconsciously. Develop the confidence to never regret that state of your life, whether you have someone at the moment or not.
And maybe I'm just a big sucker for fate. Things do seem to work out in the end.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pH: It's not my fault you guys love my boobs.
-pH
I could do without... No offense.
So Since this thread started I have gone to two movies with a girl from my classes in music. She is a fantastic musician (much better than me), and she's incredibly smart. Both times have been last minute, and I invited her the first time to have tea at my apartment. Tonight we went to see a showing of "Full metal Jacket" at the local theatre (college students love the classic movie thursdays), and afterwards she asked if she could come and study at my place and have tea with me. We talked for a while, and it was nice, and she hugged me on the way out.
This is possibly "just a friend" kind of thing, but this girl is also kind of shy and timid, so I can't really tell yet. Anyways, there's the news.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Well done Orincoro. Next step is smooching. That's the best way to go from "just friend" to "girlfriend." If that's what you're looking for. She sounds like she's interested.
I'm not trying to pressure you, but the one way to find out if a girl likes you likes you is to kiss her. If she kisses you back, you're in. If not, no biggie. Heck, sometimes the girl isn't even sure if she likes you likes you until you give her a kiss. That usually settles things.
Good luck either way man.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Well, if she kisses back, she finds you acceptably physically attractive. Depends on her dating style whether or not kissing actually indicates attraction to you as a person. And what goes on between the two of you...what your style of relating to one another is.
I definitely agree that you should date a lot of people. It's fun, and it helps you figure out exactly what it is that you like and what you can and can't tolerate. No one's perfect, so you're not going to find the most absolutely flawless human being on the face of the planet. But you have to figure out what's most important, and what sorts of things are absolute deal-breakers.
posted
Orincoro, you sound exactly like me. Except I've never been on a true date because I always find a way to say no, because I'm always convinced that they are making a mistake and I'd like to spare them the embarassment of going on a date that I'm sure they won't enjoy. Haha, now that I've put that into words it sounds really messed up. Anyway, all I can really say is Good Luck, and take advantage of the college scene while you can (I'm assuming you're in college) because it's an excellent excuse for small, casual meetings with all sorts of people.
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Those words are MY words too, so I understand. Yes I am a Junior music/English major in college, so a majority of my time out of class is spent in small groups rehearsing or discussing or studying (or eating and drinking... ) I am a bit of a spaz (not the right word really), but I am also one of those people who everyone seems to know. I like to talk and share ideas with people all the time, so I do get to meet alot of people.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Good point, women don't want a nice guy. They want a stud, who's happens to be nice.
Too many times "Nice Guy" is just an excuse to be meek and passive. Better to be assertive and manly, but polite and kind.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I want a nice guy, but the sort of guy who can stand up for himself, think for himself and take care of himself. Someone who is very intelligent too.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I don't want a player or a ladies' man so much. I want an intelligent, caring, cuddling guy who's still confident and who's more than willing to scoop me off my feet and carry me to my room.
quote:Originally posted by pH: Meek and passive does not equal "nice guy."
-pH
But unfortunately meek and passive are the main attributes of men who conciously label themselve as "nice" and approach the dating game from that perspective. If their "niceness" stems from quiet strenght and confidence, it is desirable. If it stems from massive insecurity, it's a big turnoff. Unfortunately there are a lot of guys who believe that niceness is the sole way to a woman's heart while forgetting the quiet strenght and confidence part. Without that, we're doomed to unreturned phone calls and similar flaky behavior from women. That's all I meant to say.
Posts: 722 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pH: I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
"Nice guys" like that generally turn into stalkers.
I'd rather date a guy who doesn't call than have another stalker.
-pH
Well every time a girl says she wants a "nice guy" without adding any qualifiers she's creating potential stalkers.
Posts: 722 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Meek and passive does not equal "nice guy." -pH
That's very true pH. There was a love-thread months ago in which I think you or I or somebody pointed out that "the nice guy" isn't really that nice at all, necessarily.
Proclaiming yourself the nice guy is really a very contradictory thing to do. If you're really a nice guy, then you don't care if people call you "the nice guy." On the other hand, most "nice guys" are just passive agressives who are innefective at really interactions.
I am not a "nice guy." Though I can be nice and say nice things if I want to, I can also say things that people don't want to hear, if I feel I need to be honest with them. "Nice guys" do a disservice to their friends IMO, because they don't really add anything to a relationship. The "good listeners" out there probably add less to their friendships than people who actually want to communicate with some honesty, and seek out people they can really relate to. Listening ability is important, but "the nice guy" seeks out people he doesn't actually relate well to, and who he cares nothing about; that's why he has such an easy time being non-judgemental and "caring."
I have often found it very easy to be a great listener when talking to people I didn't find particularly interesting or engaging. A person who chatters on at me about stupid nonsense is easy to deal with, because I can mentally flip channels while I smile and nod encouragingly. If I actually was interested, then I would try and add something meaningfull to the discussion; show that I cared what the person thought, and how the person saw the world. I would try to ADD to that understanding and relationship instead of simply being a face that sucks in mental exhaust.
There are probably "good listeners," out there who aren't doing this exactly, but "the nice guy" IS doing this IMO. Why else would a "nice guy" complain about being "the nice guy?" He should be in love with every second of his listening and caring friendships... that is if he enjoys them as much as he makes people think.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
People who "mentally flip channels while [they] smile and nod encouragingly" are NOT great listeners. They may be great "pretending to be listening-ers. Or they might not even be great at pretending, if they mostly do it with people who talk to hear themselves talk and don't notice if anyone's listening anyway.
Truly good listeners pay attention and contribute meaningfully to the conversation, even if it's primarily about the other person's concerns.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
You know, every time the term "nice guy" has come up on these boards that I've ever seen, the term has been twisted so badly that it turns into "stalker" or "potential stalker".
It IS possible that a guy really is a nice guy. There's a lot of ways personality components can combine. Granted, it's not a term I'd have ever applied to myself originally. I never thought to myself 'yeah, that's what I am, a nice guy, think I'll start referring to myself as that'. But over the years, enough of my friends have used the term for me, that I generally took it upon myself, and every time this discussion comes up it makes me sad. I identify with true "niceness", but here, there's such a negative connotation applied to the term (very odd that). Maybe it IS because so many people use it as a crutch or a mask, I don't know, but why do we always come around to the argument that nice guys are usually stalkers?
Posts: 609 | Registered: Apr 2003
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