posted
I wanted a bit in a story where a rabbi is addressing the congregation, but now it sounds like that wouldn't actually happen. If I wanted to go to a synagogue and see a service in action, would I need to get permission first, or could I just go?
It might sound like an odd question, but I know my teacher's mother-in-law once got thrown out of some kind of middle eastern church for holding her fingers wrong when she crossed herself.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Oh, rabbis address the congregation all the time. In some synagogues, ever Sabbath morning.
As far as visiting a synagogue, it shouldn't be a problem. You might want to call in advance, just to get some idea of the schedule and such. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Forgive me if this has been discussed earlier in the thread, but what is your beliefs on Gentiles attending seder? What about Gentiles holding seder- as happens at BYU with this guy who teaches ancient scripture? I mean, I was chasing a story that someone tried to contact the synagogue about and ran across the information and was briefly tempted to go but there is a certain ick factor for me (in the seder being held by BYU faculty.) I recalled that when I dropped out of religious school my senior year in HS because they were going to do a Seder. I mean, I had other problems/excuses but that was kind of the last straw. I didn't think it was right for Mormons to simulate a ritual sacred to Jews. (edit: removed offensive word)
posted
I see no problem with Mormon's or any other religion simulating a seder. Anything that teaches respect of other cultures/religions cannot be a bad thing. Now the Jews For Jesus holding seders trying to prove Passover symbolizes Jesus bugs me.
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posted
I sort of agree and sort of disagree with Stephan. On the one hand, it is not my place to dictate what non-Jews do, so long as they are not harming us. I don't see the point of non-Jews making a seder (and people have tried to explain it to me, in this thread even), but that's hardly their problem. (Also, I don't think it is really what you mean when you say "sacred ritual" -- certainly I would never use those words to describe it.)
And unlike Shabbos, which is specifically a covenant between God and the Jews, there is no particular reason I know of for non-Jews to not be allowed to make a seder.
As far as inviting non-Jews to a seder, I have no problem with that in theory. And when the seder in question falls on Shabbos, there is no problem in practice either.
When it does not, however, there is a problem. I can invite non-Jews to a Shabbos meal, when I cannot do any cooking (on the Sabbath itself). Inviting them on a Yom Tov (holiday) (when it's not also Shabbos) can be problematic. I can cook for a Jew on a Yom Tov, but not for a non-Jew (if I cook for a group that has both, not generally a problem). And there is a concern that if I invite you, I will feel obligated to cook you something if you ask for it (cooking can involve such things as brewing tea, for instance).
Thus, educated ( ) non-Jews who wish to attend a meal at an Orthodox Jewish home on a Yom Tov know not to ask, "Can I join you?" Rather, they ask if you will be eating that meal at home. After all, if they invite themselves over (or just show up), I am less likely to feel the subtle pressure of being the host, and cook for them.
(And please be aware that Orthodox Jews generally find it objectionable to be referred to as "a sect.")
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Mormons believe that they are Israelites, so celebrating Passover is a way of connecting with the Jews they view as brothers in my opinion.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Apr 2005
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A guy from another church bought some passover stuff today, so maybe I'm making too big a deal over this. It seemed like a peculiarly Mormon thing to do. I was asked to witness the Hametz sale by the Rabbi.
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I will be replacing rivka until Passover is over in the States. Please remember I'm not an expert, and suffer from the living-in-Israel phenomenon that Rabbi Professor David Hartman explains in Chapter I of his book "Israelis and the Jewish Tradition".
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Oh, and does this mean that you're going to wash your hair for me now? *waits in anticipation*
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That would be the situation of being stuck between tradition that's being forgotton here, and the Westernisation that's threatening and saving us contemporarily.
And no, I'm not washing your hair.
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I don't want you to wash my hair. But if you're standing in for rivka, I want you to wash your hair, and I want to watch. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote: Do Jewish people eat babies like the Mormons do?
Zan, yes.
But only their own children or grandchildren (or cousins, nieces, etc.). They're so yummy, how could you help but eat them up?
I would like to state that rivka was a little unfair here. The baby-eating is an AMERICAN custom originating in the Dark Land of Burrow Park, spreading to Flatbush, where my great uncle lives (he can barely speak English, even after 40 years of living in the States. That's my ONLY connection to the States; although my cousin married an American...), then to the reast of the US.
Mormons stole that from the Jews. But here, in Israel, we don't like that custom, as we need as much manpower as possible. We do kill the Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) kids, but just for fun. Again, you have a modern-Orthodox Jerusalemite speaking, one who prays in Shira Hadasha (if you know the schule, rivka).
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quote: The baby-eating is an AMERICAN custom originating in the Dark Land of Burrow Park, spreading to Flatbush, where my great uncle lives (he can barely speak English, even after 40 years of living in the States. That's my ONLY connection to the States; although my cousin married an American...), then to the rest of the US.
*wince* That is not how you spell Boro Park. And I'll have you know that baby-nibbling is a venerable tradition that dates back at least to medieval Europe. And I think much farther.
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Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
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Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
posted
Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
posted
Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
posted
Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
posted
Kq, rivka's correct. You need help. I should have never started that thread.
I misspelled BP because it's like the Tetragrammaton - in reverse, at least for a modrn-Orthodox Atheist Jew who follows Hirsch and Rosen, while cursing at the existance of religion. It's a sad case, and a tough complex of sophisticated problems all blended together into a theological tangle.
That's the second time in two days. Neither was offensively intended, but PJ's right. God, I feel horrible being PJ's main source of work on Hatrack.
Status down; antibiotics up; Hatrack hovering up, remaining the diamond in the sky, but neither ascending or descending, for it is made of the Shining Mirrors on this earth - and I'm a little twisted, thus making the jewel seem weird. I've got to stay in line.
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I was thinking a bit about French cuisine this weekend. I know the chocolate covered bugs are out, but are frog legs Kosher?
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posted
Jon, those apply to beheimot (best translation: animals). I don't think frogs qualify; frogs are vermin, shratzim (best translation: creepy things).
In fact, French cuisine is full of non-kosher critters. Snails (another sheretz), insects (more shratzim) -- not to mention all the meat served in cream sauces.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
The definition of "Behema" is rather awkward. As for "Sheratzim", how do you know that frogs - who originate in water - are not regarded as fish, and therefore fail the "Hechsher" from the fish point-of-view?
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posted
Because I'm in the middle of R' Slifkin's wonderful book The Camel, the Hare and the Hyrax, and he goes into a fair bit of detail regarding what makes a critter a beheimah, a chayah, or a sheretz. It's fairly clear that amphibians are shratzim -- read the book, which draws on many many many sources, and see. (I'm not about to attempt to summarize dozens of pages of info.)
Even if they were fish, not shratzim, split hooves and chewing cud would still be irrelevant. They haven't got fins (not the right kind, even as tadpoles) or scales, either.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Exactly -- shratzim. Except, of course, that certain specific species of locusts are NOT shratzim, and are kosher. But most are not. And these days, very few know which ones are.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Ah, we had wondered about rabbit as well but it was asserted that they are rodents, which I know is out. I found this statement from the Judaisim 101 page interesting:
quote: Keeping kosher only becomes difficult when you try to eat in a non-kosher restaurant, or at the home of a person who does not keep kosher. In those situations, your lack of knowledge about your host's ingredients and the food preparation techniques make it very difficult to keep kosher. Some commentators have pointed out, however, that this may well have been part of what G-d had in mind: to make it more difficult for us to socialize with those who do not share our religion.
I think alot of Mormon practices have a similar effect, if not intent.
Today I discovered that the calendar at my office does not run past August. I guess that's the next thing I want to look into.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I've never thought of kashrut as being intended to cause barriers to socialization, but that's an excellent point. Let me tell you what it's like when all of the other grad students are eating the most delicious smelling pizza, and you are eating some <strikethrough>cardboard</strikethrough> matzo...
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) non-Jews who wish to attend a meal at an Orthodox Jewish home on a Yom Tov know not to ask, "Can I join you?" Rather, they ask if you will be eating that meal at home. After all, if they invite themselves over (or just show up), I am less likely to feel the subtle pressure of being the host, and cook for them.![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
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