quote: How about this. Would you be perfectly happy to marry a man with no genitalia? Or lets just take Porter and subtract that part of him. Would you be just as happy/contented?
No, but part of that would be knowing that a eunuch or even an impotent man can't enjoy that sort of intimacy much. But I will say this, I can enjoy such an intimate encounter without that being involved. It is not crucial to my enjoyment.
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And I think (know) heterosexual guys can enjoy an intimate encounter without breasts being involved.
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Fair 'nough. I still think that there is a pretty significant difference in the way men and women's sex drives work. And I honestly am curious particularly about the homosexual male and if his sex drive tends to work more like a man's or like a woman's or perhaps a combination of the two. I find it an interesting question.
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I think a gay man's sex drive works pretty similarly to any other man's, though the object of desire is, by definition, different. But I think men's sex drives are much more varied among individuals than typical stereotypes allow. My ex was insatiable. My current boyfriend very much less so (though I enjoy intimacy with him much more.)
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PSI Teleport asked about men who date nelly (girly) men. Personally, I find that a little mysterious myself. I can see the hottest looking guy in the world and if he starts mincing or swishing or talking effiminately the attraction bottoms out pretty quickly. But I imagine for people who are attracted to this, it's the same as for straight men who like boyish or even mannish women.
This isn't to be confused with "camp" though. Many gay men (myself included to some degree) will affect somewhat effeminate (or effeminate charicatured) speech patterns and/or mannerisms when we're in gay company. I might say "You go, girl!" to a gay male friend. A friend of mine will adopt a very queen-ish attitude and then say something cutting-but-witty that will have us all laughing. It's a part of the culture for some. It's an embarrassment for others.
On a related note, there is the concept of "gender-f***", which is basically thumbing one's nose at established gender stereotypes. For some this is an expression of freedom. For some it is more a kind of in-your-face activism.
There is also the tradition of drag, which is not to be confused with transvestitism or transexuality. Drag is more dress-up or impersonation. For most drag queens, it is theater, and the illusion of uber-femininity is the point in itself. And To Wong Foo aside, very few drag queens wear drag except when they are "on" (at the bars or for performances). But I'm getting off the point I think, so I'll stop here.
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quote: I used to watch this show called "An Adoption Story" or some such, mainly because I intend to adopt. One of the gay male couples were talking about how they love their child, and how they have had to make new friends because their old friends kept teasing them about being straight now that they had adopted. Does anyone know why these "friends" would say such things? I honestly don't get it because I don't think adopting says anything about homosexuality or heterosexuality.
Some gays actively reject the "straight world". I think they are a minority. These gays also usually could care less about gay marriage, or adoption rights. Just like there are some black people who scream "Uncle Tom" at any black person who doesn't talk in ebonics or (heaven forbid) might marry a white person, there are gays who think gay-marriage and adoption and such are signs of trying to "be straight" and by implication rejecting gay culture.
I think it just shows that there are narrow-minded people in all cultures.
It's sad to think that a case like you mention might be taken as representative of the norm. In my experience, most gays are very happy for those in the gay community who might choose to adopt or get married.
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Okay -- I'm going to ressurect this thread to ask a probably-stupid question to Telp or KarlEd.
In a gay-male relationship, isn't one of the partners usually more "feminine" and the other a little more "masculine"? To various degrees?
I mean - once, years ago, I picked up two hitchhikers (both male) who, after about 15 minutes of riding in the car with me, it became obvious were very gay and very much in love with each other. One of them I would have figured was gay if I had met him even totally in a different context or alone -- the other one, I would never have been able to tell. In fact, he said years ago he had a "straight" relationship with a wife & kids and left it because he was gay, and now had this partner. But he was definately more masculine of the two in mannerisms, etc.
Now I'm asking this because I have a friend who is a gay male, and he is just going through a break-up with his partner of several years. I'm not sure how to address this/comfort him. I mean, there are certain things I feel I can relate to a girl when she is breaking up with a guy, or a guy when he's breaking up with a girl, but I don't know which of these two viewpoints of breakup this guy is feeling. But I want to show caring and compassion because I realize they had a loving relationship.
or maybe I should just keep my mouth shut altogether?
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I remember in the Philippines someone talking about lesbian relationships and how one is often "the male" and the other "the female".
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I think of any two people, no matter what their genders, one will find one is more masculine in at least some ways and the other more feminine. Also, particularly as society tends to expect masculine/feminine pairings, those differences will likely become more evident due to role fulfillment.
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Farmgirl - I think the feminine/masculine dichotomy in gay relationships is largely a myth. I think that straight society identifies some degree of femininity in all gay men, and some degree of masculinity in all lesbians. Additionally, I think if you looked hard enough at any male (gay or straight) you could identify some aspect of his personality that might fit the stereotype of "feminine". Ditto (in reverse) for women.
I'll admit that some gay relationships one partner might more clearly fall toward the masculine end of the spectrum and one toward the feminine end, but I think most gay couples are less easily pinned down to a spot on the spectrum.
In my own relationship, I tend to be the protector (M), the primary bread winner (M), the cook (F), the home-maker (F), etc, though Chris also shares in each of these roles. He does more of the housekeeping (F) but I also participate int his. Sexually, I'm probably more the initiator (M), but in terms of the mechanics of sex we both enjoy roles that straight people would likely identify with one end of the spectrum or the other. (Trying not to be too graphic here )
I think, though, that if you looked at any straight couple with the intent of picking out ways one gender is filling the role traditionally filled by the other gender, you'd be able to find a lot of "feminine" men and "masculine" women paired together.
So I think that since straight relationships have had more clearly defined masculine/feminine roles traditionally, people (gay and straight) often try to project those roles into a gay relationship and determine who fits which stereotype best. In reality, though, I think the masculine/feminine aspects of the roles get shuffled pretty thoroughly in gay relationships (some more than others) and such a dichotomy is harder to substantiate.
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Thank you for that clarification, KarlEd. That was very enlightening, and I will do my best to NOT perpetuate that myth myself in the future, then. I can see the logic of both what you say, and what Fugu said, about EVERY relationship having some masculine/feminine traits. In fact, I have been accused of being too masculine many times because of my extremely independent streak. It has intimidated some men in my relationships.
Back to my original question then (the reason I asked that above). What is the best way to (verbally) show compassion and understanding to a gay person who has just ended a long-term relationship? Just the same as we do anyone else, right?
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Yes. People are people and should be related to as individuals, especially when it comes to personal issues like a breakup. Just as you probably wouldn't say the same thing to all the straight women you may know who are going through a breakup, but tailor your response based on your knowledge of the situation and your degree of closeness to the people involved, you should do the same for your gay male friends.
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